Young adult Masses treat me like a child

Standing room only in Latin Mass basement
Quo Vadis group at St. John Cantius goes to Cubs game

Quo Vadis group at St. John Cantius goes to Cubs game

The following comes from a June 19 story on

Millennials are leaving religion in droves, recent surveys find. Churches are roiled and it appears some will do anything to stop the exodus.

The Wall Street Journal reports that the Archdiocese of New York recently hosted millennial Mass-goers for pizzas and drinks at a Midtown dance club. “We’re definitely people who live in our culture,” the archdiocese’s director of young-adult outreach told the Journal, “but I guess as long as it’s not too crazy, we’re OK with it.”

Drinks and dancing after Mass might not be crazy, but it’s silly to think it will fill the pews.

One church on the near north side of Chicago isn’t fazed by the holy hubbub. When it comes to millennials, yours truly included, St. John Cantius Catholic Church bucks the trend. The struggling old church was once slated to be closed by the archdiocese, but pastor Frank Phillips had an idea to save it: celebrate the Mass in Latin.

“That’s actually when people started coming to the parish,” Fr. Phillips said in a church video. “Today, there are so many adaptations [to the Mass] that one wonders sometimes — because I hear this from parishioners — ‘Did I attend Mass? Or did I attend the Johnny Carson show?'”

Some young adults probably don’t get that reference, but they know what the good priest meant. At a recent meeting of Juventutem, a network of Catholic youth who love the smells and bells, it was standing-room-only in Cantius’s basement. “I’m not a child,” one 24-year-old in skinny jeans told me with craft beer in hand, “and that’s how a lot of these ‘young adult Masses’ treat me.”

If there’s one thing hipsters don’t like, it’s not being taken seriously. When Pope Francis received bishops from the Czech Republic in February, one archbishop reported that the pope said he “cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to” the traditional Mass. “I find that it is rather a kind of fad. And if it is a fad,” Francis said, “it is a matter that does not need that much attention.”

That might come as a surprise to a growing number of millennials who worship in Latin every Sunday. Before Pope Benedict XVI allowed for wider use of the traditional Mass in 2007, only a little over 200 Latin Masses were celebrated in the United States. Today, that number has doubled. And it’s not just an American thing. “440 flock to the main Sunday Latin mass,” The Economist wrote of a London church. “But it is not a fogeys’ hangout: the congregation is young and international.”

Some might think this Mass movement is reactionary. But millennials are unfamiliar with 1960s church politics — they weren’t even born yet. The “spirit of Vatican II” means nothing to them. They’re offended by their church’s attempts to look cool. Church is cool, they say, when it is true. When pastors give them, the Journal reports, “repackaged hymns with more upbeat tunes,” church ceases to be church. It becomes entertainment — something millennials can get elsewhere….

To read the original story, click here.



  1. Before Vatican II, the churches were filled with people attending the Latin Mass and receiving Communion, young Catholics married, rather than cohabiting, the seminaries were filled with candidates to the priesthood and young women entered the religious life, and schools and hospitals were staffed by nuns. Vatican II changed everything. There are not enough priests in any parish, permanent deacons help to fill their absence. The seminaries are nearly empty and some have even closed. There are few parochial school and, because they are usually staffed by lay teachers, the tuition is prohibitively expensive for most families. Many Catholics couples cohabit rather than marry and many Catholics limit their family to two children. Vatican II declared that we only need to fast one hour before receiving Communion and we don’t need to abstain from meat on Friday, both of those laws being too rigorous for ordinary Catholics. The altar rails have been removed because we don’t need to kneel to receive the Eucharist. Many parishes have removed the statues and vigil candles. Some of the new church buildings and cathedrals do not resemble Catholic architecture. An example of such a monstrosity is The Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels, in Los Angeles. It looks like a factory or a public building.

    • Sarah, you are blaming too much on Vatican II.
      These are all the documents of Vatican II

      Many of the abuses you are writing about are due to the BERNARDIN era of the US Bishops Conference – who asked for special exceptions.
      Many of the sins you list are still mortal sins – see the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.”

      Vatican II never approved Altar girls. It was never world-wide to abstain from meat on Fridays and was peculiar to the USA, not even Canada. Vatican II never said to remove altar rails. Vatican II never said to remove statutes or vigil candles. You can thank these plus many more changes (including Communion in the Hand) to the US National Bishop’s Conference (aka USCCB) under Cardinal Joseph Bernardin’s leadership.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Thank you Paul. I appreciate someone with common sense here. Good information you gave. The whole church is not like this article. Many of my strong love and convictions came during my growing up. I grew up in way after Vatican II and I know many like me who love the faith. So while we do have issues, praise God there are the faithful lay who speak up and fighting the good fight. Like I said before, it is now, where saints are made.

        • Abeca & Paul. – Sarah is 100% right and your comments really skip the point she was making. Seems to me that both of you don’t understand what the Church was like prior to V 2. I do & I was there and I have seen my beautiful Catholic Church downsized to almost nothing. Why are the Churches empty on Sunday, where is Church leadership, etc. ? Let’s have some answers rather than trivial nothings.

          • Will, when Sarah or anyone else posts false information, they are not right at all.
            Accuracy is important in the public media.

            Why are some Churches empty?
            Because Diocese Bishops and their Priests have not been teaching the Faith.
            1) They have NOT actively, prominently, and frequently encouraged the literate Laity to read the Bible and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” at Home.
            (Lack of catechesis of the Laity.)
            2) These same Bishops allow public Scandal to stand by not correcting and if necessary disciplining (Canon 915)
            Catholics in obstinate mortal sin.

            Neither 1 or 2 have anything whatsoever to do with Vatican II.
            But have everything to do with Catholics not knowing their Faith accurately and in entirety.
            The “Cardinal Joseph Bernardin Machine” did many bad things in the USA which had nothing to do with V II.

            Here is a link to all the Vatican II documents:
            Everyone must read them for themselves, so they do not print and/or repeat lies.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            I have a feeling that the reason the pews are empty is because their consciences cause them to reject Humanae Vitae’s effect in their daily lives, and therefore the authority of the other moral teachings of the hierarchy are called into question, and that there is appallingly poor preaching, ministering, and music in most parishes. Oh, and the sex abuse scandal didn’t help.

      • Ann Malley says:

        While what you state is true, Paul, we have the actual assessment of those prelates who were there during that time period and before who express their concerns and observations of the actual fruits of those fresh from the Council with utmost clarity, Paul:

        “The analysis of the Novus Ordo made by these two Cardinals has lost nothing of its value, nor, unfortunately, of its timeliness . .. The results of the reform are deemed by many today to have been devastating. It was the merit of Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci to discover very quickly that the modification of the rites resulted in a fundamental change of doctrine.” – – Cardinal Stickler, November 27, 2004, on the occasion of a reprint of the Ottaviani Intervention.

        I am no theologian, Paul, but I cannot help but think a very firm attempt to define how VII *MUST* be interpreted is in order. From the top down. Otherwise, the whole ‘Spirit of VII’ nonsense will continue center stage to eclipse reality, much like a bend gone uncorrected in a tree will alter its intended growth pattern

        God’s grace has prevailed to save some from the resultant maelstrom, but many are confused and rightly so as they look to leadership to be wholly united in word, deed, and Spirit.

        • Everyone should read the Vatican II documents for themselves.
          That is the only way one will know the TRUTH, of what V II taught.
          Taking the opinions of any others – opinions which can be full of errors to suit one’s own goals is wrong.

          In addition in the “RATZINGER REPORT” (Pope Benedict) – read chapter two – a Council to be Rediscovered.
          This includes the heresies on the left as well as the right.

          By not knowing the TRUTH of what the V II documents state, that is how the “Cardinal Joseph Bernardin machine” flourished – on the ignorance of everyday Catholics.
          He was able to advance the church of Bernardin, and very few were wise enough to catch on.
          The devil loves ignorance.

          • Ann Malley says:

            The Bernardin machine also flourished by getting a pass by those in a position of authority to stop him. Much like the fear of schism regarding the Dutch catechism… there was fear of schism by miscreant bishops pushing their own agenda.

            The faithful were not the tool because of their ignorance, but rather the victims, Paul. Traditionally it has not been the duty of the faithful to keep their hierarchy in line – quite the opposite. So while I do agree that everyone should read and learn, I cannot agree that it was the so-called ignorance of the people that is to blame for all of the schlock foisted upon the flock.

            So yes, the devil does love ignorance, but he also enjoys getting people to point the finger at the other guy. In this instance the other guy are those that are traditionally called to obey.

      • SandraD says:

        Thanks for posting. Everyone blames Vatican II instead of the “men” running their own show……..Just like Our Holy Mother Church is blamed for all of the scandels instead of the perpetrators

      • Perhaps it was not the documents that are to blame, but that does not mean the way in which the documents were drafted didn’t allow for the abuses. Just about every good direction given in Sancrosanct Concillium is footnoted back to a line that essentially reads ‘unless your bishop says not to.’
        The ‘spirit of Varican II’ must be a demonic spirit bent on the destruction of the Church.

    • Anonymous says:

      Sarah, you are right on. But for Vatican II we would not be in the mess we are in now. There was no need to “update” the church. Opening up to the world was disastrous. End of discussion.

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      I recently attended a Novus Ordo Mass at which a Bishop from VietNam was the Celebrant. Since I always receive from either a priest or a deacon, and I always receive kneeling when possible, I approached this Bishop with some trepidation when I knelt for Communion and put out my tongue. To my joy, the Bishop gave me Communion and then reached over and tapped me on the shoulder and said “Good, very good”!

      May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
      Viva Cristo Rey!
      Yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

  2. John Feeney says:

    The truth from the mouths of the young! There’s hope!

  3. ALL Ordinary Forms of the Mass MUST adhere to GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal)

    No Priest has the authority to change anything. All abuses of the Mass must be reported to the Diocese Bishop. And if he does nothing, to the US Papal Nuncio.

    (Regarding the Extraordinary Form (Latin) of the Mass.)

    Vatican II Document: Sacrosanctum Concilium (Sacred Liturgy)

    The (Cardinal) Joseph BERNARDIN machine did more to damage Faith in the USA than anything else – yes many of our own Bishops.

  5. juergensen says:

    “There are not enough priests in any parish”

    This is not true. Do not believe it. It is a myth propagated by dissidents and heretics who want the Church to “change” and allow married priests, women priests, homosexual priests, lesbian priests, etc.

    As USA Today recently reported, there are 39,600 priests in America for 17,413 parishes. This means there is an average of 2.27 priests for every parish in America (39,600 ÷ 17,413 = 2.27). My parish has 4 priests. The parish 5 miles up the road has 3 priests. It is the small churches in rural, lightly populated areas that have 1 priest or a visiting priest.

    • My diocese has 37 parishes and 55 priests with many of them near retirement age. We are in a crisis. We have several seminarians but I’m thinking they might, if we’re lucky replace those that pass on or retire.

  6. When Bishops (and their Priests) start telling everyone to read the Bible and the CCC, people will not leave the Faith in droves.
    It is significantly (but not entirely) their fault.

    No one wants to belong to a willy-nilly Church with no principles. When youth are not accurately and completely taught they do not know the principles/teachings of the Church.)

  7. SandraD says:

    Will the Bishops in NY and elsewhere wake up before it’s too late? People of all ages are “Thirsting” for the Truth. True praise, worship and communion with Our Lord. The Mass is holy, reverent and centers around the Holy Eucharist (Jesus)…..not the Priest…….The Latin Mass delivers.

  8. I was surprised at how many youth and young families choose to attend the Extraordinary Form (Latin) Mass in our area.
    Yes, they dress modestly and the girls wear mantillas. 🙂

  9. Ann Malley says:

    “…Did I attend Mass? Or did I attend the Johnny Carson show?’”

    Finally, someone is paying attention to what people, and that includes young people, really need and think instead of what overly-sensitized adults (focusing on their own unresolved childhood issues) think they think.

    Nobody likes being talked down to in the long run. Patronizing tones and watered-down ritual do nothing but promote babyhood and/or disinterest. They also shift focus from the importance of the message to the way in which the message is delivered. If it isn’t delivered the way *I* like it, I won’t do it. Imagine a child telling a parent, I don’t like the way you said no. Say it again another way and I might consider your position, but otherwise, I’m plugging my ears.

    Imagine being a teenager and still having your steak ground up into mush or diced into teeny tiny pieces before you’re allowed to even approach it. And minus any salt as that could upset the tummy. Imagine it being called a fad if you express your preference for meat. Seasoning too! Kind of like young folks being told, no that word has too many syllables for you to pronounce so let’s just stick with Dick and Jane and the little Woof Woof. It’s a slap in the face as if that is all people are called to. God’s grace alone makes us far more capable.

  10. I’m reminded of Peter, Paul and Mary’s “Where have all the flowers gone” with the memorable lyrics, “When Will They Ever Learn, when will they ever learn.” Our episcopacy obviously has too many fat-bellied dumbos. Exceptions, fortunately, being Abp. Cordileone, Bp. Vasa, and Bp. Barber (in Oakland). Oh, and of course, Bishops Merlino and Paprocki farther away. I’m sure there are others. Few or none, though, that I can think of in California.

    • Ann Malley says:

      Persecution has a way of shearing off the fat in short order. Much like our country just prior to WWII, the Catholic Church is the sleeping giant. We need to wake up, savvy up, and take on the mantle of the Church Militant. Because that is what we are called to be…. not flower children.

  11. As a teacher, I’ve heard all this before and it’s true that students feel that way. They are capable of learning so much more than the touchy-feely religion books you are supposed to use. That’s why I would teach them all how to altar serve (it didn’t matter if they were Catholic or not) because there is a lot of doctrine in it and it proved a way to help move the Catholics in the class to volunteer. Further, I would touch on the Quinque Viae, St. Augustine, etc, and break out the old Baltimore Catechism on occasion, too. This was for middle school students. When they went on to high school, they would tell me they breezed through the first year because they had learned it already.
    Students want to learn our Faith but the problem comes from CINO principals who don’t like what you’re doing and you are told to stop, pastors who have no idea what is really happening in his school and don’t really want to know, education departments who have their own agendas which you must conform to, and bishops who have their own pet projects, too.
    We have lost many generations to the self-inflicted destruction of the Church, we must do better and do it now.

    • Ann Malley says:

      Thank God for you, Bob. A teacher who actually gives his pupils the opportunity to strive and learn and grow! Kids are far brighter than most give them credit for being. If they aren’t, most are smart enough to appreciate the ego-boost of being treated as more than a mere infant. It’s motivating. God bless!

      • I also had my 8th graders scoring at the 11th grade level in Science at the 10th grade level in Math on the ITBS test (this is a yearly test given at the beginning of the school year).
        I enjoyed teaching.

        • Ann Malley says:

          Your results sound like home schooling results, Bob. Must be because *you* are driven to challenge and engage. Would that all teachers could be so empowered. What a blessing that would be to students!

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Bob God bless you. You are an awesome teacher. I remember in CCD classes, I had a good teacher like you, also a nun, use to visit our class and she gave me my first bible. So it was that summer that I read the whole bible. My point is that all we have to do is plant the seed and if the child is open to those gifts and graces, they will blossom. My son has a friend who just recently converted to the faith and is still in the process. His family do not practice any religion at all and are kinda not too supportive, but its so refreshing to speak to this young man. He seems to have been blessed with the right guidance thus far. He attends his local NO parish. I would like to meet the person or persons who are catechizing him, because he just seems like he is being taught the faith. I was impressed. He chose to be Catholic on his own. He said that Pope Francis caught his attention one day. I told him about the Tridentine Mass/parish. He said that his girl friend, a girl he just started courting, attends there. He says “she a good Catholic” Just what he needs in his life too. Praise God.

      • I’ve actually had students convert to Catholicism and some have said they would seriously be looking at becoming priests – these are the great “presents” of teaching.

        • Ann Malley says:

          It is good when the *love* of subject sticks with one’s pupil. Congratulations for your many successes. We will all benefit!

    • Anne T. says:

      Bob, it sounds as if you are an excellent teacher. Please keep it up. May you have a long and blessed life.

      • Anne, Ann, Abeca,
        Thanks for all your kind words, but I was told I was too “conservative” in my Faith. This from a LMU-trained principal who was brought in by the diocese and proceeded to stop altar-serving training, religious retreats, teaching a little Latin, telling teachers their classrooms looked too religious (!), said Catholics “worship Mary too much”(!!!) – there was more. The pastor backed her up after I complained, so I left. The school closed six months later, the principal not telling the parents until the last day of the school year! There is a new pastor now, but the school remains closed. The diocese did nothing but find her another principal position, while most of the teachers (parents and students, too) were left high and dry after being promised help in finding new positions.
        There are many, many good Catholic teachers out there. Unfortunately, many turn to public schools to teach because they don’t want to put up with the long, unpaid hours, poor pay and the un-Catholic nonsense they are forced to endure. There are also those who serve in silence, who continue to deserve our thanks and prayers!

        • Ann Malley says:

          God bless you, Bob, but you still are teaching. Right here. If you’re still looking for a teaching position, however, you might want to think about going independent. That is independent of a brick and mortar school.

          I taught via Skype for a few years and it worked very well. What with this continued crisis in the Church, I have no doubt that there are many who would pay and benefit from your skill set. Catholic Home school distance learning programs are increasing in popularity. But even if you do not get much of a salary, you would definitely reap the rewards of touching student’s lives and hearts and pleasing Our Lord in your generosity. And again, we would ALL benefit.

          God bless you, Bob. And wear your struggle as a badge of predilection because it is a sign that you ‘GET IT’. That is such a gift.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Bob write to the next person who is higher up and send your complains to them. Don’t fret, your persecution is actually a righteous one because you are doing right by God. For them to say you are too conservative, next time ask them what do they mean by that because you are only being a true Catholic.

          Sometimes we get idiots who run the show and try to run down the loyal lay faithful, such as yourself and I, but little do they know that our great rewards are waiting for us when we get to heaven! So they can call us any name they want, heck who cares what they think, our eye’s should always be fixed on Jesus.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Bob Notice that while we have seasons where we feel the persecution, notice how God gives us rest and encouragement, it’s His blessings and graces that keep us going. Sometimes we have to fall in order for us to gain real heavenly strength. I figure, some day we will have to die, why not die faithful and “conservative” as they call it.

            But the humbling thing is also to ask God to help us improve. Sometimes we feel insulted to easily, that we forget to really reflect and review how we are sharing the faith. I often ask Jesus to help me reach out to those in their level, not everyone is in the same spiritual level as myself, some are better or some do not have the faith at all, so I ask Jesus to help me be more tactful, more brave or gentle to go with different people. Like St. Paul preached, he told us to reach out to people at their levels, even if it means that we have to place ourselves in their shoes. It takes a lot of perseverance and patience.

  12. I have attended these masses and they are awful! The Church has treasures going unnoticed because some liturgy director decided to make the mass more like a Protestant service. Bring the Church back to the Church!

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Bingo Kristin, usually its the liturgy director and the pastor just lets them decide. I see that problem too. Its too bad. I always pray that someone close to the director, that they reach out to those directors and help them understand the importance of keeping the Mass Catholic. : ) I remember having that talk with one pastor at one parish once…..

    • PETER S. says:

      Have you reported abuses of the Mass to your Diocese Bishop, with a copy to the US Papal Nuncio ?
      When you witness abuses, it is your responsibility to contact the Bishop with a copy to the Papal Nuncio.
      All Ordinary Forms of the Mass must conform to GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal).

      All Extraordinary Forms of the Mass (Latin) must conform to the 1962 Missal.

      IMPORTANT: No Priest has the authority to make any modifications regarding the Mass.
      The Pastor is in charge of everything that happens within his Parish Church – including music, etc, etc., etc.

  13. St. Christopher says:

    The present Church’s madness will continue until no one comes — and then the “Cardinal Dolan’s” of the time then remaining, will praise their faithful service and try to sell the property. What a laugher. The “young” are not fooled — as none of use should be fooled — by an institution’s unwillingness to adhere to its own teachings and Tradition. Who wants to belong to such a place! Poor Pope Francis, dismissing the TLM as a “fad” among some of the young. Yet, these youth have heard the message and understand the power that comes through devotion to true Catholicity. The Vatican II-educated and empowered clergy — including Pope Francis — simply think that it all started in 1960; that everything else is worthless. Well, NYC will continue to close more parishes, and bishops will continue to debase the Church, and smear Tradition, in their attempts to be “more relevant.” We will see apostasy in a few months coming out of the Synod on the Family. And, it is likely that a new “Springtime” will then be announced, where we can all glory in Masses run by clowns, dancing girls, rainbow-slashed LGBT members, pole-dancers, and all the rest. Dying, dying, dying right before our eyes.

  14. Anne T. says:

    My husband and I unintentionally ended up at a rock Mass (Youth Mass) one time in the evening. I still remember a young woman in her twenties behind me saying, “This is awful, ” so it is not just the older people complaining. I do listen to Gospel and other Christian music on the radio, but I do not want some of it at a Mass. Give me good solid Catholic music or Gregorian Chant at a Catholic Mass. please.

  15. Michael McDermott says:

    To Succeed – Catholic Education, like all teaching – needs to be Age Appropriate and Relevant to the Student.

    The maxim that the Teacher is the only one who ever really learns anything is true – in the sense that Students are ultimately Self Taught. Teachers can only guide the horse to water, but drinking is always the Student’s decision.

    Some of the Worst Catechists I have encountered are the Nicest, Most Truly Pious Catholics of all – and as Boring as the day is long.

    Teaching is a Skill Set – Independent of Piety, and many just don’t get that. Often, they deal poorly with skeptics, and take questioning as a personal insult – rather than the opportunity for the Student to make their own journey, offering guidance but not Marching Orders.

    Believing and Teaching are Not the same; although without a Strong Personal Witness to the Truth, Teachers lack necessary credibility to Inspire Student desire for Learning.

    Father Baron’s ‘Word on Fire’ series “Catholicism” – is one of the Best Teaching Tools (for those of an age of reason) around. It frankly deals with such ultimate questions as the Actual Existence of God…

    – Not as a Supreme ‘Being’, but as the Essence of Existence Itself – as Infinite & Eternal as Love, and often as mysterious.

    • Michael McDermott says:

      The story of the ‘Cross Eyed Bear and his Homely Ghost’ – was the theme of the finest homily about passing on the Faith to the young I ever witnessed.

      The Priest giving it showed great insight not just of the juvenile mind and their lack of reference background to figure out what the heck the Adults are talking about; but also about how “Mondagreens’ (a phonetically misunderstood term – like hearing ‘Tarzan Strikes 4 Ever’, as opposed to “The Stars & Stripes For Ever”) – can lead to misunderstood messages…

      – And subsequent rejection of the Teachings of the Faith because Teacher makes little sense and sounds like gibberish, unless you know the ‘secret language’ – Kind of like ‘Ick-Snay’ on the ‘Aith-Fay’ using ‘Ig-Pay-Atin-Lay’.

      I recall one lesson for fourth graders dealing with ‘Separating the Wheat from the Chaff and Burning of Straw like the Fires of Hell’…

      Given that none of the students were wheat farmers, and had not studied the creation of Flour for Bread (Or Yeast to Leven such) – and how kernels must be winnowed from stalks which leave a residue of flammable straw…

      – The lesson was just nonsense to them – without the necessary background prep, including the nature of Analogy, Simile and Metaphor- as examples for lessons taught in the Bible and Life in general

  16. Father Karl says:

    Children enjoy new challenges, and get bored when things are too easy. Why do you think some students skip a grade;l it is because their minds are developing quite rapidly, and want to learn something new, which takes some effort. Before Vatican II in the Roman rite, all the Masses were in Latin. The children had an English/Latin Missal which helped them during Mass. Today, and for the past 45 years, the Mass has been in the vernacular, and there are booklets in all the pews. It is already too common with hardly any challenge to an adolescent mind. By making the Mass an extension of Romper Room, the children are bored to death. The words are extremely banal, and for children who far excel adults in computer sciences, this is particularly troubling. The Mass is not a time to be entertained or be bored. It is a time for prayer, and for developing a more personal relationship with Almighty God. Because Masses for children are so bad, I wish they would be banned, These Masses also separate the children from their parents, which does not promote family unity. Remember what Father Patrick Peyton said, ‘The family that prays together, stays together. By hyphenating Catholics, unity is destroyed, since adults go to one Mass, and the children go to another.

  17. Anonymous says:

    The Milleniums” issue will not be going away anytime soon. There most oft mentioned anawer to poll questions of what regionous denomination they belong to is “none of the above”. It will take more than pizza and soda to get these intelligent young people on board. Aside from the horrible public relations proflem of the clergy sex abuse scandal, the Church’s teaching on contraception and divorce and remarriage are likely having a chilling effect on these young people, as they have grown up in Catholic or non-Catholic famiilies with both.

  18. Bob One says:

    If you did not live in the Catholic Church before 1960, you don’t, can’t, appreciate the need for opening the windows wide. I think most Catholics would be aghast at how much many other denominations changed their liturgies to be more like the post VII NO. Many even adopted the three year cycle of readings for each Sunday and weekdays. They are much more like us that we are like them. At the time of VII, the churches were starting to thin out their attendance. People were sick of the clericalism, the hierarchy, the rules that made no sense, etc. It was a slow but sea change kind of metamorphis. The reduction in attendance is even more astounding in many liturgical Protestant denomination for pretty much the same reasons. Read the working document published this week for the synod on the family. Read it all yourself, because every group with an agenda is putting it’s own spin on it. But, there is the admission that the majority of the church members don’t follow a lot of the teachings of the church because science and culture have outstripped the teachings. There is also a piece of it that indicates the need to reevaluate the validity of natural law, on which a lot the teachings are based. This should be an interesting couple of years.

    • John Feeney says:

      Yeah Bob One, if people don’t like the teachings of the Church regarding abortion, contraception, homosexual sex and the rest, just eliminate those teachings. How about make every sin okay so that a “Catholic” can do whatever they want. Won’t that be fun!

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Interesting point about the changes in the liturgical protestant liturgies. When I was a young adult exploring my faith – I had gone to catholic schools but was lutheran in name only (NINO, I guess), it was clear that the various Lutheran ethnic churches in the US were consolidating, and converging on a liturgy really quite close to the NO liturgy, and as you say, using ICEL texts for most of the mass parts and adopted the three year lecitonary. It was VERY exciting to be able to go to lutheran eucharist on sunday, and pray the Sunday readings with my catholic friends that night. Also, the eucharist was gaining experiencing a huge rennaisance in lutheran churches, which, in keeping with other protestant denominations had been breaking bread 4 times a year. Suddenly, lutheran congregations were expected to celebrate at least one eucharistic liturgy a week, and some of them had several. One Lutheran parish in a very depressed part of the city I was living was much more “high church” than anything I had ever experienced in the Catholic Church, and I suspect they were really looking at liturgies in use at the time of Luther: Many banner processions, saints days, they had a tabernacle to reserve the Eucharist, weekly use of incense and holy water, etc.

    • Bob One are you talking about the Presbyterian USA who recently changed their Constitution to allow same-sex marriage in violation of the teachings in the Bible, and having their Ministers preside at same sex marriages?

      Vatican II never threw out the teachings in the Bible, as you suggest.
      The “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” was an outcome of Vatican II.
      Are you suggesting these required teachings of Christ and His Church no longer apply?
      What Church have you been going to that teaches such heresy?

      The reasons many Catholics do not adhere to Christ’s teachings and those of His Church because they are never properly taught,
      nor of their own requirement to educate themselves by reading the Bible and the CCC.

      • Regarding MAJORITY RULE:

        JESUS never let the majority dictate His teachings.
        When the majority of His disciples did not like His teaching on the Eucharist, He merely let them go.
        Jn 6:66-67.

        Never deny TRUTH as stated in the Bible and the CCC.
        Never tolerate Mortal Sin.

      • Bob One says:

        Oscar, I was referring to the document issued by the Vatican as the working paper for the Bishop’s Synod on the family that will be held in October. It is very much a summary of what hundreds of thousands of Catholics all over the world told the Vatican in the extensive questionnaire that was sent to the Bishops who were supposed to put it out to the people for responses. Many did. I am not advocating anything in my above comment, just referencing the survey results. As to the comment about about Protestant churches taking up the NO version of the Mass, I suggest that if you want to experience a “High NO Mass” you can attend Grace Cathedral in San Francisco on Sunday mornings, or attend most ELCA Lutheran churches. The words are the same, the order is the same (they say the black and do the red) and the vestments are the same very often and the readings are the same. Although we may disagree with them, they also believe in the real presence.

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Bob One,

      Once again you have clearly demonstrated that your God is Science. As a young Engineer, I once bought that crap too.

      When you stand before the Eternal Judge, try telling HIM about your God science!

      May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
      Viva Cristo Rey!
      Yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

    • Anne T. says:

      Bob One, they took a survey at Calvary, too, and we know what happened — the majority were wrong.

      • Correction: the majority WAS wrong. I do not want all you excellent teachers out there having to correct me. Ha! Ha!

  19. SandraD says:

    As a teacher, I never use the ridiculous programs they give us to teach from. I use the Bible, Church Fathers & Saints, Baltimore Catechism, Decision Point from Matthew Kelly and reference Church Militant TV with Michael Voris. The students receive only His Truth, not my opinions. It’s a tough sell and quite a workout since most have parents who have never learned about our beautiful faith. I do my small part and hope that “seeds” planted might bear fruit someday in these young impressionable souls. One thing for sure, my students are never bored! 🙂

    • Ann Malley says:

      The Truth isn’t boring, SandraD. It’s challenging and a breath of actual oxygen. God bless you for giving your students the opportunity to truly learn…. and their parents.

    • Bob One says:

      Sandra, I had not heard of the decision points material by Kelly until you mentioned it. I reviewed it on line. Wow, this is great stuff. It hits the kids where they need help at confirmation age, but more important, it is in a framework to which they can relate. Very age appropriate. I hope more churches will use it.

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