St. Anne Church, San Diego

Latin mass inside St. Anne's

Latin mass inside St. Anne’s

Name of Church St. Anne

Address 2337 Irving Avenue, San Diego, CA 92113

Phone number (619) 239-8253


Mass times Sunday, 7:30, 9, 11:05 a.m., 12:30 p.m. (homily in Spanish), 6 p.m. Monday – Saturday, 7:15 & 9 a.m. (except Friday, when there is a 6:30 p.m. and no 7:15 a.m. Mass). All Masses are Latin Tridentine.

Confessions Friday & Saturday, 30 minutes before Mass. Sundays 7-7:30 a.m. and 15 minutes before all other Masses.

Names of priests/Homilies Father Carl Gismondi, pastor. Father Federico Masutti & Simon Zurita, assistants. Priests are members of the Fraternity of St. Peter, approved by Pope John Paul II in 1988 to offer the Traditional Latin Rite of the Mass and Sacraments to the faithful according to the liturgical books of 1962 (see The Fraternity priests are well formed, orthodox and offer reverent liturgies. Listen to their sermons at

Exterior of the church

Exterior of the church

Music The 9 a.m. Mass is sung, except during the summer. The 11:05 a.m. Mass is a chant Mass (there’s a schola choir). The other Masses are Low Masses, or not sung. Singing is accompanied by an organist; the St. Anne’s choir sings both Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony (listen to some music samples on the parish website).

Special parish groups St. Tarcisius (for ages 4-12), youth and young adult groups, Legion of Mary, Adult Liturgical Choir & Choristers, Cleaning Guild, First Friday homeschoolers group, Helpers of God’s Precious Infants, St. Stephen Altar Guild.

Devotions St. Anne devotion on Fridays after the 6:30 p.m. Mass; Padre Pio devotion on third Mondays, with Holy Hour at 6 p.m. and Mass at 7 p.m. and devotions after Mass.

Fellow parishioners The church is located in the predominantly Latino Barrio Logan neighborhood of San Diego, but it has a wide mix of ethnicities. Many are drawn from outside the neighborhood because they like the traditional nature of the parish.



Parking It has a small lot that fills up, but you can park on the street.

Cry room No. If you have small children, there is a nursery attended by two adults where you can leave children during Mass.

Additional observations St. Anne’s has been staffed by the Fraternity of St. Peter since 2008. It is their only parish in the diocese. It is a small church, which has undergone renovations to make it more suitable for worship. There is a capital campaign going on to raise funds to purchase apartments nearby to accommodate the need for catechism classrooms and space for the choir to practice.


  1. St Anne’s Church as I have witnessed has grown tremendously in faithful Catholics preferring to worship in the traditional rites. I recommend everyone in the San Diego pay a visit to open your eyes and learn or relearn about what the Catholic Church was like before all of the V2 changes crept in and gave us what we have today.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Jerry this is one of my parishes that i attend and i love it. But i must say i also visit several other parishes from the OF and love their faithfulness too.

  2. Note my key words, “grown tremendously” I wonder if that speaks equally the same for all of the other parishes in the diocese? My guess is a resounding NO, they are slowly dying on the vine, while the traditionalists are growing steadily. If the trend continues, there may be only 3 or 4 catholic parishes that survive through the next generation! My guess the October Synod, is going to help that trend a lot.

    • But, Jerry, your data is wrong. The Catholic church in America is growing by leaps and bounds. Parishes are overflowing with people. The average size of a parish is now close to 3,000 families. If you are younger than 50 it is likely that you have never attended a traditional Latin Mass, don’t know what a highly choreographed Mass is all about and couldn’t relate to it. I wish they could experience it at least once, but alas … Small suggestion, try to stay within the margin of error when using data.

      • TLM Masses have many young families with lots of young children.
        (Most Altar boys are elementary school age.)

        Bob One, please provide a link to your own source of information that most Catholic Parishes are growing 1) in the USA; 2) in CA.
        It would be interesting to also know how many are law breaking – ILLEGAL Immigrants (as opposed to LEGAL immigrants).

      • When parishes close, the numbers at other parishes go up. Cardinal Dolan just announced that a 1/3 of the 368 NY parishes will close. In 1988, there were 19,705 U.S. parishes, there are 17,500 now. In 2013, 61 U.S. parishes opened, and 190 closed. There are 3,496 parishes without a resident priest, 6 times the number 50 years ago. Since 1965, priests have fallen from 58,000 to 38,000, and nuns from 180,000 to 50,000. Since 1974, Mass attendance has fallen from 47% to 24%. Growing dioceses are in the South and West, and due to immigration. These numbers are well within the margin of error.

      • Ann Malley says:

        …growing by leaps and bounds and yet the survey says folks ‘in the pews’ either don’t know the Catholic Faith or don’t agree with it.

        Sorry, Bob One, but salvation is not a numbers game.

      • Bob One the Church is NOT growing by leaps and bounds, we have just had another round of parish and school closings.

        • Many churches around the country are being closed because of demographics shifts in dioceses around the country. These shifts represent people moving our of the urban core cities, for example, and moving to outlying areas that are having a hard time building churches fast enough. In other areas churches are closing because of consolidation brought on by the lack of Priests. In some areas immigrants are growing the parishes to overflowing. And, there is the general decline in any belief in any religion. When we grew up 50+% of people went to church weekly (or folks would talk about you), today only about 25%.

          • CARA statistics show that in 1965 there were 48.5 million Catholics in the U.S., in 2015 there are 81.6 million, of whom 22.8 million are foreign born. There are an additional 25 million adults that are former Catholics. I find it interesting that when I ask someone what religion they are they say “I’m Catholic but I attend the >>>> church.” Once a Catholic always a Catholic no matter what church you do or do not go to?

          • So you now admit that large growing parishes (if and where they exist) are due to population displacement. The U.S. population has increased by 64% since 1965, from 195 to 320 million today. The number of Catholics you cite is up 68% in the same time. “Growing by leaps and bounds?” This is like saying the stock market was rocketing upwards in 2008 because it was higher than in 1933. The Catholic faith is in decline in this country, even if the U.S. bishops get their wish, demolish the borders and dump all 1.2 billion Catholics in the world in here.

          • Bob One what is it that you do not understand. 1 in 10 Americans are former Catholics 1 in 10. No you are wrong not once a Catholic always Catholic… if you are not attending mass, or receiving the sacraments or practicing your faith in anyway does not make you a all

      • Pew Forum study 2015: The total number of U.S. Catholics DROPPED by 3 million since 2007; For every U.S. Catholic convert, 6 leave the Church; 13% of all Americans describe themselves as former Catholics; Catholicism is losing more members at a higher rate in the U.S. than any other denomination.

        • Ralph, I used the following site: The PEW data may be different, I haven’t seen it yet. However, there was no intent to mislead. The CARA data shows that the number of parishes are down a little, that the number of Priests per parish is about half, but that the number of Catholics has increased by a lot. If your data shows otherwise, please post your link so that we can all see it. Thanks

      • St. Christopher says:

        Your statistics are crazy, “Bob One”. The Zombie-Liberals love it when out-of-touch clergy, like the Pope, say that things are great in Catholic-Land, but they are not. Yes, here and there, due almost entirely to illegal immigrants, and to the high birth rate of Hispanics, a number of parishes are flourishing.

        But most the Catholic Church is like what is happening in NYC, Boston, and Philadelphia, where dozens and dozens of parishes are being “consolidated”. The Catholic Church, as an institution, is dying. Only where Tradition is regularly practiced is there constant growth (and in Africa). Stop telling untruths.

        • St. C, I only gave the numbers published by CARA.

          • No, you didn’t “only” cite CARA statistics, you editorialized with your “once a Catholic, always a Catholic, bah, blah, blah.” But what is your point? You still think the church is “growing by leaps and bounds?” My 8/30/15 post were also all CARA statistics. The CARA statistics in no way support a hypothesis of growth at all, much less “by leaps and bounds.” Read my previous posts. At some point you should really give it up. Your statements are reckless, uniformed and just plain wrong. Hopefully also not motivated by an intent to deceive.

          • St. Christopher says:

            Russia, and Nazi Germany, and Red China, all gave out wonderful stats as to their accomplishments and glorious future. Assuming that you are accurately reporting something, these numbers show very little. The Catholic Church exists on the fumes remaining from the Baby Boomers that still go to Church and contribute, and to immigrants, who also have higher birth rates than the spoiled, nihilistic young women in America.

          • “Saint” Christopher, you are comparing a catholic data gathering effort to Nazi Germany and “Red” China. That shows us both your advanced age – nothing wrong with that as I’m advancing right there with you – but more importantly the fact that if you have to try to make that comparison to dispute BO’s claim, you actually don’t have a leg to stand on.

  3. Finally a church WORTH driving to!! This is what all of our Roman Catholic Churches should look like just as they were before and yes I will say it, THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough of the altar girls, life teen, giant puppets, communion in the hand, kiss of peace, hand holding, rock, mariachi, folk, drums, guitars, pianos, polyester vestments, dinner table in the middle of the altar, girls running around in leotards dancing like vestal virgins right out of Cecil B. Demille movie, felt banners, protestant music, lay lectors. Bring back the Mass of All Times and like Pope Benedict once said the Church will be smaller but they will all be true believers, let the Novus Ordonarians have all of the above or just join the…

  4. What a great church! I wish I had one around here! Thank you again Cal. Catholic.

  5. Now contrast this parish with the one below Most Holy Redeemer in San Francisco, your soul will be saved at St. Anne’s but not at Most Holy Redeemer. Pray for the F.S.S.P. and the people of St. Anne’s and for the return of the TLM to all of our altars beginning at St . Peter’s in the Vatican.

    • Anonymous says:

      You are making an error. You can work out your salvation by cooperating with grace at either parish.

      • Ann Malley says:

        Let’s be intellectually honest, Anonymous. Grace builds upon nature. That is why when natural obstacles are put in the way of grace, the obtaining of true grace becomes increasingly difficult…. and souls are subsequently lost as a result.

        • Anonymous says:

          A person in mortal sin cannot receive grace at either parish.

          • Ann Malley says:

            Anonymous, you need to study up on the conditions for mortal sin. You also need to give over attempting to play magisterium. As to your confusion about the reality that grace builds upon nature, you will have to go back to the Baltimore catechism, St.Joseph’s First Communion prep, and start from there.

            God bless.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Your right Anonymous and the proud wont accept what you stated about mortal sin. They always have an explanation, personal theory, excuses,assumptions etc.

          • Ann Malley, I don’t know why you replied to my post like you did. I really did not understand what you meant by natural obstacles and souls being lost. Maybe you could explain. Could you please give me the number of the question from the Baltimore Catechism that you think I need to review?

          • Ann Malley says:

            Thank you, Abeca, for confessing your own temptation to pride. Goodness knows your personal theories, excuses, and false (…and uncharitable) assumptions have led many to sin. It is precisely the pride of which you speak that leads so many to judge others while understanding little to nothing of what the Faith actually teaches.

          • Baltimore Catechism
            Q. 156
            A. We shall know the things which we are to believe from the Catholic Church, through which God speaks to us.

            Q. 157. What do we mean by the “Church, through which God speaks to us”?

            A. By the “Church, through which God speaks to us,” we mean the “teaching Church”; that is, the Pope, Bishops, and priests, whose duty it is to instruct us in the truths and practices of our religion.

            Q. 158. Where shall we find the chief truths which the Church teaches?

            A. We shall find the chief truths which the Church teaches in the Apostles’ Creed.

          • Q. 159. If we shall find only the “chief truths” in the Apostles’ Creed, where shall we find the remaining truths?

            A. We shall find the remaining truths of our Faith in the religious writings and preachings that have been sanctioned by the authority of the Church.

        • Anonymous says:

          uh what?

          yet more made up theology round abouts from AM.

        • St. Pius V says:

          From his catechism:
          For the Eucharist is the end of all the Sacraments, and the symbol of unity and brotherhood in the Church, outside which none can attain grace.

    • They have girls running around in leotards at Most Holy Redeemer?

  6. Poor Bob One confused again, yes they may be packed but they are worshipping each other in the “MAN-MADE” Novus Ordo dinner service not the TRUE MASS OF ST. PIUS THE V. Soon very soon salvation will come to Rome and the Holy Ghost will return the TRUE MASS OF ALL TIMES to the altar of St. Peter’s and the Novus Ordo man made dinner service will be a thing of the past!!!!

    • Anonymous says:

      This is blasphemous.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Eternal Father, I offer You the Most Precious Blood of Jesus Christ in atonement for my sins, and in supplication for the holy souls in Purgatory and for the needs of Holy Church. We place your holy blood over these conversations. In Jesus name I pray. Amen

      • Abeca Christian says:

        “By the effusion of his holy blood, [he] has given so great efficacy and strength to the holy sacraments of his church, that when we receive any one of them, we shall be sprinkled and made clean by the virtue of his precious blood.”
        –St. John Fisher
        “He opened up for us in his most sacred wounds four founts, as St. Bernard says: a fount of mercy, a fount of peace, a fount of devotion, a fount of love and summons all to quench their thirst there”

    • Janek, I’m not sure why I am confused because I used the latest CARA demographic numbers. But be that as it may. I went on line and pulled up the words of the TLM and compared them to those of the NO Mass. There are some differences, but none in my opinion, major. There is no worshiping of man vs Christ, there is no man-made dinner service, the words of consecration are the same. I could not find any place in the liturgy where they were worshiping each other in the “man-made” liturgy. Keep in mind that even the TLM was written by men. But, I am open to your examination of how it is a man-made dinner service. Please educate us on this subject.

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        Well, Bob One, if you cannot read and discern the enormous differences in words and prayers between the N.O. and the Traditional Latin Mass, then let me just point out one monumental difference for you: the very first prayer of the TLM Offertory is a statement of purpose, Suscipe Sancte Pater: it states that this is an offering to the Father of an expiatory sacrifice in atonement for the sins the living and the dead. That my friend is nowhere in the New Mass, and fundamentally distinguishes the two.

        • If “Suscipe Sancte Pater: it states that this is an offering to the Father of an expiatory sacrifice in atonement for the sins the living and the dead” is the real difference between the two forms of the Mass, in your opinion, you might want to talk to a Parish Priest. The essential differences between the forms is the use of the vernacular, and some of the gestures, postures and actions. The Liturgy of the Word is essentially the same, the Liturgy of the Eucharist is essentially the same, and the Dismissal is basically the same. Are there differences, of course there are, but so what? They are both of equal value, just different.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Bob One, God does not grant that for which one does not petition. In “Suscipe, Sancte Pater”, prologue to the Mass of the Faithful, the priest specifically petitions the offering of the host “for mine own countless sins…and for all here present; as also for all faithful Christians, living and dead, that it may avail both me and them salvation. .” This intent is also in the trad priest’s preparation prayers, and a petition in the Roman Canon “for us sinners” hoping for atonement and expiation for sins.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Now, by contrast there is no statement in the regular order of the N.O. rite specifically affirming it is Christ’s infinite sacrifice atoning for sins. The closest t he Nov us Ordo comes is (in Euch Prayers 2-4), after the institution, “Remember our brothers and sisters…bring them and all the departed into your presence..have mercy on us all..” Worthy thoughts, but no linking of those thoughts with the certain infinite worthiness of an act of atonement for sins by Christ in the offering of the Mass.

            Now, if you wish to believe the N.O. rite at ones for sins, wonderful: but it doesn’t state that in actual fact.

        • I think the Suscipe was removed because it was misplaced. it was before the consecration. Not these words but these ideas are in the Eucharistic prayers.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      “By the effusion of his holy blood, [he] has given so great efficacy and strength to the holy sacraments of his church, that when we receive any one of them, we shall be sprinkled and made clean by the virtue of his precious blood.”
      –St. John Fisher
      “He opened up for us in his most sacred wounds four founts, as St. Bernard says: a fount of mercy, a fount of peace, a fount of devotion, a fount of love and summons all to quench their thirst there”

    • Abeca Christian says:

      St. Catherine of Siena: “Take caution to see priests only as the dispensers of the Blood of the humble, Immaculate Lamb and overlook the faults you may see in them. A priest is a man and therefore fallible and capable of making mistakes, but this does not prevent him from being the Anointed of the Lord, marked forever with the indelible sign and having the power to consecrate the Body of Christ and administer the sacraments and to preach to the people in the name of God.”

  7. Abeca Christian says:

    Jerry is wrong in his false misrepresentation that others are declining. The other parishes i go to as well are growing too. Well anyways. Thank you CCD for sharing info on one of my parishes that I treasure too. This is a beautiful parish. Also recommend to attend the St Padre Pio devotions that they have once a month on Mondays.

    • Ann Malley says:

      …why is it that you parish hop, Abeca?

      • Abeca Christian says:

        No not parish hop. More of Ann Malleys theory point of views. Ill give you a hint: Christ Jesus is my Lord and Savior. His church is one, so hopping is not truly a faithfilled question to ask another person walking by faith. Like the example of the holy Trinity, 3 in one 1, how could i begin to explain to an outsider looking in from their own theory’s. My eyes are fixed on Jesus. If i begin to tell you, you will surely devour it and to prevent you from committing more sins against me, ill just have to say is. It is between Jesus and I and my love and faithfulness to Him. Jesus thy will be done! I place Jesus blood over these posts. Praise be His most holy name. Amen

        • Ann Malley says:

          You seem to attend a vast array of parishes. That’s hopping, Abeca. You need to try to understand what you’re writing so that you can understand why folks ask you logical questions about your posts.

          Try placing the Truth over these posts, Abeca, and answer questions instead of skating on the reputation you ‘think’ you are creating.

          Gee, how could you explain? Try communicating. How about the mass times are better sometimes. Or, I am in this part of town because of the kids dance class on this day. Or, I have a friend who needs my help on the second Sunday of xyz month.

          Real mystical, Abeca.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Ann Malley you think like a protestant. Holy Trinity, remember the holy Trinity. Protestants church hopp from one church to another, Lutherans from Methodists, SSPX to OF. THAT’S HOPPING. but within faithful to Rome, no hopping. Well it doesnt matter nor will I share my personal ministry to you. In other words its for my Lord”s knowledge. His holy will be done. Take care.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            For the record Ann Malley your the only one making that conclusion. Its gonna backfire on you. Whatever you conclude its far from the truth and most likely irrelevant. Things you do not understand. I pray the blood of Jesus over these conversations. Amen.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Which is worse, parish hopping to find the variety of devotions that one holds dear, or hopping off the barque of peter altogether, and hoping to be able to swim ashore of ones own merit?

          • Which is worse?

            1. Mocking God’s natural law and calling it Catholic.
            2. Causing a same sex partner to land in hell.
            3. Causing family members to also lose their souls because they didn’t have the courage to tell you that you are offending God.
            4. Losing your own soul because you were blinded due to habitual mortal sin

          • Ann Malley says:

            …. have jumped ship when you and your lot have been forcing Catholics to walk the plank for years is rather telling, too. And you’ve still got the knives out to keep any from pulling up the rigging to get back in the boat proper.

            Thanks again for your post !

          • …. have jumped ship when you and your lot have been forcing Catholics to walk the plank for years is rather telling, too. *And you’ve still got the knives out to keep any from pulling up the rigging to get back in the boat proper.* = SO TRUE!

            Thanks again for your excellent post Ann Malley. Prideful men still ignore Jesus’s warning. Jesus says, ‘WOE to the PASTORS who have scattered his sheep.” Prideful men still prefer to attack the sheep who have been scattered instead of addressing the PASTORAL rot that still keeps Jesus’s sheep away.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Jesus protective blood protects me. Those two ladies are ones to judge. They are walking a thin line. Self righteousness is their blindness. They use Jesus to whip a lost soul when they need to pull out their own rod off their own eyes. Pray for His soul for it is in grave danger and dimish your own words of destruction. The evil one is playing you and using you just like he is using many within the church. You preach to know the faith but you are more dangerous because of your own downfalls against Christ’s church.

          • Abeca, we are called to judge with right judgment. You may want to try that instead of making absurd statements. Things like, “…it’s gonna backfire on you,” is something you should seriously consider personally.

          • Abeca, = “All the evils of the world are due to lukewarm Catholics.”
            — POPE ST PIUS V

            Example of self righteous = ” I smelled the roses FIRST. ” = Backfired

            ” They are walking a *thin line*.” = “And you’ve still got the knives out to keep any from pulling up the rigging to get back in the boat proper.”

            Jesus told us to strive to enter through the narrow gate.

            “And the Lord answering him, said: Ye hypocrites, doth not every one of you, on the sabbath day, loose his ox or his ass from the manger, and lead them to water?”

          • Envy of another’s spiritual gifts is a sin against the Holy Spirit.

          • I read an article by a person who said that whenever she broke the social rules she experienced shaming and worse. It hurt but she stood by her truth and eventually became happier. So there is something in people that strengthens them when they stand up for what they believe, whether they are right or wrong. People seem to take this feeling as confirmation that they are right but it really is just a reaction to having survived the social interaction.
            The woman is a divorced mother of three who left her religion and came out as gay. It is the same as with transgender people. I assume it will be true for people who believe the Catholic faith or an independent version of it. My point is that feeling supported in your truth does not…

          • The road to perdition is wide and many there are who find it.
            Injuring another with your words in a sin, possibly even a mortal sin.

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      Then how is it that Pew Survey says the US Catholic Church has lost an astounding 14 million Catholics since year 2000? Other countries show similar death spirals.

      Must we still play the ostrich when it is so obvious that a crisis exists? How we all wish it were otherwise. But to merely believe my wishes is plainly called wishful thinking. Reality Is hard teacher.

  8. I hear good things from those that have been to St. Anne’s. Father Gismondi and Masutti (Argentinian like the Pope) have offered the Latin Mass here in Los Angeles. We now finally have the FSSP starting in LA. We have a great priest, Fr. Fryar, and a magnificent choir. The pastor of St. Victor’s generously allows for a 7:00 pm sung mass every Sunday. There is also daily mass in a nearby convent chapel very early in the day. St. Anne’s offers 17 Latin Masses a week! One with sermon in Spanish. This will bring great blessings to California.

  9. Maryanne Leonard says:

    In the pre-Vatican II America in which I grew up, Catholic churches were actually Catholic, and so were those who worshipped in them. Today, few people discuss their faith in social settings, as we once did naturally and as a matter of course, unless the gathering is entirely of Catholics. Now we have to learn about the kind of church a particular Catholic church may be in order not to find ourselves annoyed, disappointed, and often shocked by what is said and done at Mass or even at Church-sponsored musical presentations, both by clergy and lay attendees, who seem not even to have heard of basic Catholic teachings, to say nothing of proper behavior, such as not smoking inside the Church, not wearing revealing clothing, etc. I miss the…

  10. The FSSP give excellent sermons, and these priests are no exception. I listened to the sermon called “True Freedom, False Freedom” on the last blue link in the article, and it certainly is very fitting and accurate for our time.

  11. Sorry Abecca, you are living in a dream, not the real world. Look at the statistics from reliable sources the other bloggers have provided supporting my views. They showed Bob One how wrong he is/was. Now you like so many seem to drank the modernist Kool-Aid too.

    I suspect that any slowing in the slope of the declining curve of numbers of catholics is on account of two reasons, 1) immigrants, and 2) the counting of protestants as part of the greater V2 Church. Afterall, look at the Anglicans that just rolled in! Also, is it fair to count fallen-away V2 Church members anymore when they don’t practice nor care about learning about the Church? Would it not be fair to regard those who don’t follow or care to believe in the V2 Church…

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Jerryy it doesnt matter what you think. I only comment from what i see. Also this parish was made possible because for years we’ve been praying to have our own TLM parish. We’ve asked,sought and fasted. Your seeing years of prayers faithful to the Magisterium. Also the faithful OF parish that i also attend is growing too. Its the faithful ones which grow. Well in my area. I cant speak for other areas. Only speaking from experience

      • Ann Malley says:

        Abeca, you may want to try opening up to the reality that others are similarly reporting their experiences. That is why you posting that they are wrong is so ridiculous. You also may want to understand that the suffering and efforts of others – not just you and your advertisement of fasting and fidelity – play a far greater role than you narrow view will allow.

        You call on the Precious Blood and rightly so. Let that Precious Balm wash over you and calm you and enlighten you to the reality that God’s ways are not our ways, or more precisely, not Abeca Christian’s ways.

        God bless.

        • Yes, abeca, open up to the reality that others are reporting their experiences. Don’t you follow Oprah?

          • Are you saying, Anonymous, that only the mystical reports of Abeca who won’t even say why she parish hops are valid observations. You may want to stop looking for Oprah jokes and actually talk to your neighbors. They are real people, not just figments of your imagination.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Lol thats funny anonymous.

          • Ann malley, please, share with us your mystical experiences.
            And abeca did tell you why she goes to several parishes. Maybe you did not see it.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Ann m dont you remember a thing or 2 from the holy Trinity? Fix your eyes on Jesus not on rabbit hops or personal theologies. Bring Jesus honor with your lips, stop with insinuations that you know nothing about. ☺

      • That’s right, some faithful parishes “grow.” The question is, where do those parishes get their additional parishioners? Some indications are that “faithful” parishes attract members who are disenchanted with liberal (for lack of a better word) attributes of their current parishes. Otherwise, parish growth comes from population displacement from closed parishes, immigration or demographic shifts. NOT from additional Catholics grown organically from the existing population base. Growing parishes give off an illusion of real growth of the Church in America while the statistics show decline in general.

    • There is no V2 Church. There is ONE Holy CATHOLIC and Apostolic Church.

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        Well, factually this is wrong at least from a historical standpoint (“There is no V2 Church: ONE Holy CATHOLIC etc”:

        There was a Church prior to V2, and a Church, part of which is conditioned by V2 to the degree that the true Church “subsists” in the Catholic Church (Lumen Gentium, #8): so apparently not all you see in the official Church is the true Church. There is a Church of the liturgical sacrifice defined in Mediator Dei (Pius XII, 1947), and a Church conditioned by Sacro. Concilium and its various contradictory revisions as stated by the Gen. Instr. Roman Missal (“GIRM”). The latter two documents contradict the prior encyclical in statement and practice, and references to Mediator Dei are expunged from Sac…

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          ..Concilium, so it is a clear statement that the liturgical practice of the Mass has changed, necessitating a “New Order” and a New Rite “for modern man.” It is objectively a different Mass in the pre-V2 Church from the present celebration of the V2 Church, because the TLM was forbidden to be celebrated for roughly 4 decades: so they are clearly different rites, and have different purposes. One is explicitly an expiatory sacrifice and oblation of Christ to the Father: the other perhaps so, perhaps not, it is ambiguous.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            And once again, if you follow the actual written text of SC, V2, “On the Liturgy”, you should be observing the Trad. Latin Mass, because nowhere in SC does it call for the abrogation or abolition of the TLM (as Klaus Gamber, expert at the Council maintained), the maintenance of Latin as the liturgical language (36.1), and Gregorian chant and the organ as its preferred musical expression (116,120). Is that going on in your V2 parish? No? Then it is a V2 Church, not a traditional Catholic Church, right? Maybe at Immaculate Conception Chapel here in SF: not a oxymoronically-named Holy Redeemer, hardly. .

            So, once again, it is interesting to read what Vatican II actually says, then how it contradicts what it says; and finally, how…

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            …everyone is mystified at the contradiction in the Church.

          • Steve Phoenix, you said that you attend the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite. Everything you want is in there. It is the SAME RITE as the TLM. OK it has more Bible Readings and it has the Sign of Peace.

          • The ends of the Mass are the same for both forms of the Roman Rite. They are the same rite.
            You don’t seem to understand how the Church works.
            Latin is the official language of the Mass in both forms. It is the official language of the Church,

        • There is a “new” order, not a new right.
          There is no ambiguity on whether the Mass is an expiatory sacrifice and an oblation to the Father by the Son. IT IS.
          The TLM was not forbidden; you had to get an indult from the Vatican to do it, which was obtained by the Bishops of England and Wales, but not by bishops of the US.
          And yes, not only is it interesting to read Vatican II documents but also other documents by the Vatican and the Popes.
          There really isn’t THAT much difference between the two forms of the Roman Rite.

        • Lumen Gentium 8
          Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element. For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine…

        • This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”. This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.

        • Just as Christ carried out the work of redemption in poverty and persecution, so the Church is called to follow the same route that it might communicate the fruits of salvation to men. Christ Jesus, “though He was by nature God . . . emptied Himself, taking the nature of a slave”, and “being rich, became poor” for our sakes. Thus, the Church, although it needs human resources to carry out its mission, is not set up to seek earthly glory, but to proclaim, even by its own example, humility and self-sacrifice. Christ was sent by the Father “to bring good news to the poor, to heal the contrite of heart”, “to seek and to save what was lost”. Similarly, the Church encompasses with love all who are afflicted with human suffering and in…

        • The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow because it is the Body of Christ.
          There is no such thing as a V2 parish.
          The parish of this article, does not call itself a traditional parish, but the extraordinary form parish of the Diocese of San Diego.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          It seems that when facts are produced pointing out the obvious (that there is obviously a V2 Church and a traditional Catholic Church, and that they are distinct entities), a diversion campaign ensues. There is first, a highly personalized response to anyone making that assertion, , an effort to “try to figure people out” (‘You said you go to the N.O. rite, etc…” ) or even, higher comedy, to arrogate (source of the word “arrogant”) to oneself the recommendation to judge whether one is fit (“someone [else] of course) “to receive communion.” (Not oneself: they are worthy, you may not be.) Next,surely will come that attacks, as those against Ann Malley et al. High comedy. Unwitting self-parody.

          Thank God for the Anonymous…

      • Steve Phoenix, you are struggling with doubt and I respect your efforts and your journey. You remind me of the Israelites in the desert complaining about the “wretched food” of the Manna.
        Doubt is not sinful unless it is willful. If you doubt whether the Mass is the Sacrifice of Calvary re-presented, do you doubt that Jesus is in the Eucharistic Species?
        Should you refrain from receiving communion until you are in a better place?

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          It seems that when facts are produced pointing out the obvious (that there is obviously a V2 Church and a traditional Catholic Church, and that they are distinct entities), a diversion campaign ensues. There is first, a highly personalized response to anyone making that assertion, also, an effort to “try to figure people out” (‘You said you go to the N.O. rite, etc…” ) or even, higher comedy, to arrogate (source of the word “arrogant”) to oneself to judge whether one is fit (“someone [else] of course) “to receive communion.” Really? (Not oneself: they are worthy, you may not be.) Next,surely will come that attacks, as those against Ann Malley et al. High comedy, unwitting self-parody.

          Thank God for the Anonymous Clan,…

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Thank God for the Anonymous Clan, those of which are not like the rest of men, Lord. (Luke 18:11) But the facts are, the New Church is in conflict with itself because it is not the Traditional Church. At times it tries to be: but it is not.

      • Your Fellow Catholic says:

        One Holy Catholic and Apostolic can have, indeed has always had, multiple eucharistic liturgies. That doesn’t make it a different Church.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          Another wrong perception, that a church “has always had multiple Eucharistic liturgies”. If this is an appeal to history and tradition, completely wrong.

          Each of the 5 ancient patriarchies had one liturgy, a liturgy which likely originated in the “Liturgy of St James” of Jerusalem. But the fact is in the Western or Latin Church, it has always had one liturgy that organically developed with one Canon, or “rule of law”, the Roman Canon.

          But this appears to admit what is in fact true: we now have 2 obviously distinct liturgies, 2 different rites, and these express 2 different faiths, 2 different churches.

          • There are two forms of one rite in the Latin Church. The CCC lists 7 rites in the one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.

            Go back to the promulgation of the Novus Order by Paul VI. He had a different schedule of rolling out the liturgy for those rights LESS than 200 years old, and another for those OLDER than 200 years, meaning that even in the Latin Church there was more than one liturgy leading up to Vatican II.

            The Church has a rich tradition of liturgical development, one that has existed from East to West, yet all professing the same faith, same Lord, same Baptism.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Exactly a good point: Paul VI in promulgating the Novus Ordo rite, eliminated rituals less than 200 years old: yet forbade the Traditional Latin Mass, proving that it is a separate and distinct rite from the 1969 Novus Ordo; and also meaning this “New Order”, what none other than then-Card. Ratzinger called, not once but twice, “a banal fabricated liturgy”, will also be suppressed in the future: After all, it is only 46 years old, Bugnini’s ink is practically still wet on the pages..

          • The key is liturgical development, YFC, as opposed to liturgical invention.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            So Steve Phoenix, you don’t bring my “exactly good point” back to the point you were trying to make, which was that a universal liturgy has always existed and is the mark of the Catholic Church. It never had one universal liturgy everywhere, yet it always had the marks of the catholic church. Universality of liturgy – and constancy over time – are NOT marks of the catholic church now, and never have been.

            Actually, Trent tried to take disparate Western liturgies and make them uniform. But it never tried to claim that Eastern Rite or Orthodox masses were invalid or inferior because they were not “The Mass of All Times” as you all like to call it.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            There were not “disparate liturgies” in the Western or Latin Church: another necessary distortion of fact to enable the continuation of the Novus Ordo, which is already on life support. 14 million Catholics have voted with their feet on it since 2000.

            The one remarkably unified Mass in the West was the Roman Rite with the Roman Canon. Even the most recent edition of GIRM admits that the Traditional Latin Mass dates back in the same form to at least to P. Innocent III (1198-1216) (#7, Gen Instr Roman Missal, 2014) . I have pointed out to you before that the Gelasian and Verona Sacramentaries (561-625 AD) have the same essential traditional Latin Mass as the Mass of Trent.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Go back even more to St. Ambrose of Milan (d. 397) who describes in his book De Sacramentiis the same prayers as in the TLM. At this point, you might as well go back to Peter and Paul (d. 64 AD), and the tradition of the Roman martyrs and popes.

            There was/were no “competing” alternative rite(s) to the TLM, no “other Eucharistic liturgies”. It is all nonsense that you need to clear out of your head from people who are trying to justify a man-made, made-up liturgy from 1969. As I have urged you to do, read Gamber, Davies, Romano Amerio, and get your facts.

          • Read Quo Primum to see your error. It is by Pius V. It gives permission for other rites that have existed for over 200 years. I agree that they weren’t competing though. The beginning of Quo Primum will fill you in on the process of the creation of the TLM.

          • Jesus Christ is not a bigamist. He has one Bride — the Holy Catholic Church headed by the Pope. This must be believed with a divine and Catholic Faith. “Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;” CCC 2089

          • Absolutely, Our Lord is not a bigamist which is why Churchmen need to stop attempting to make the Bride of Christ look like the other woman.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Apparently, Steve P., you confuse “universality” with “antiquity”. And in your zeal to promote TLM, you fail to provide the historical evidence for the antiquity of the other liturgies that have existed right along side the TLM as it developed over the centuries.

            So what if 14 million “vote with their feet” for the TLM. Over a billion vote for the NO, and they include the Pope and virtually every validly ordained bishop of the Latin Rite.

          • …for now, YFC. But one cannot legitimately state that it is a true voting with one’s feet when the clergy and faithful are hobbled with lies regarding the TLM and the truth about the Novus Ordo Missae.

            Disinformation is an ugly thing, but then it is an effective tool. One, I pray that will eventually become outmoded as more and more faithful are given the fullness of facts regarding the Catholic Faith – not a progressive’s remod.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          In fact, read up on what Card. Robert Sarah said earlier this year, that the original Trad Latin introductory prayers and offertory need to be restored to the “Novus Ordo” Mass. At this point you might as well have the TLM.

          You can also look up where he himself stated what I have said, into the face of sneers and curled lips for years, that the TLM was never called for to be abrogated by V2. (see Rorate Coeli blogspot, Mar. 2, 2015). So why do we have this fabricated liturgy?

          • restore prayers or have the TLM? either one is OK with me.
            TLM was never called to be abrogated and never was
            We have the liturgy because the POPE said so.
            If the Pope says otherwise, then that is what we’ll do.

          • So you prefer the fabricated liturgy of Trent instead?

          • Anon… there was nothing fabricated about Trent.. I know liberals can’t stand it because it snaps their backs

  12. Abeca Christian says:

    The thing missing is that this parish does not have perpetual adoration. So i go to another parish from the OF, that does. There is also another OF parish that has mass daily in the morning and a 530pm in the evenings with adoration shortly after. So daily mass attendance is available for those that cant make early morning due to work schedule.

    • Abeca, in no place, at no time, did Jesus ask to be “perpetually adored.” He did, however, command us to serve those in need, preach the Gospel, sell the overload of “stuff” that possesses us, and focus on the Kingdom of God.
      My wife does not feel safe going out alone at night for our parish’s Perpetual Adoration, but she is always at prayer, whether she’s taking care of the kids (teaching them morals and songs and lessons about Jesus), singing hymns as she’s working and cooking, or reminding us all (including me!) about our duty as Roman Catholics.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Thank you anonymous.

        • Ann Malley says:

          … a special way.

          I find this individuals devaluing of adoration of the Blessed Sacrament disturbing…. and not Catholic at all. Perhaps Anonymous would benefit from being reminded that HIS DUTY is to support his wife’s sanctification, not downplay it to suit his desire to stay home at night while she instructs everybody else. Escort your wife to adoration, man. Good grief!

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Instead of accusing Anonymous of not supporting his wife’s sanctification, an accusation for which you have no evidence, why don’t you ask how it is that his wife is afraid to go out of the house in the evening for her own safety. That doesn’t bother you, that we have unsafe neighborhoods? Instead you go after the husband, who paints a very loving portrait of his wife and her prayer life.

          • 1. “Instead you go after the husband, who paints a very loving portrait of his wife and her prayer life.”

            “(reminding us all (including me!)” = What was the name of Popeye’s hamburger loving friend? That’s right! It was WIMPY!

            In order to cleverly devalue the importance of Perpetual Adoration, YFC & Anonymous use scare tactics while painting a portrait of a feminized, whipped sounding man. A husband who never has a clue unless a wiser amazonian version of Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm rescues him from his oh so sensitive powder puff personality and serial stupidity. = Leftists do not want Adoration or real men.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            I have never devalued the importance of Eucharistic adoration. I don’t think Anonymous was doing that either, and I don’t think he was wimpy or feminized in his description.

          • You have devalued the use of common sense when it comes to men needing to behave as men. As for Anonymous devaluing Eucharistic Adoration, um:

            “Abeca, in no place, at no time, did Jesus ask to be “perpetually adored.”

            That coupled with the cop out of not escorting his wife out at night is the kicker. You may not see it that way, but women who want/need their husbands to behave like men (not little boys who need reminding) do. That said, if the neighborhood is that bad, perhaps the man of the house should look to protecting his family by moving them to a safer environment – not using it as an excuse to negate Eucharistic Adoration of God Almighty while his wife lulls him to sleep with holy hymns.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Ann Malley – I don’t understand why you always have to make so many assumptions just so that you can trash talk about people. One would think that we should be encouraging to people’s faith, not find reasons to abuse them. Let’s start with your 9/10 psot at 12:10 PM, from the bottom. The liklihood is that if his wife is afraid to go out of the house, that they are not young techies making the hundreds of thousands of dollars, but are middle aged or even advanced age and their capacity to just haul up and move to a neighborhood is beyond their financial reach, especially given the housing inflation of the last 15 years. I know I can’t afford to move! And if he WAS financially able to do so, don’t you think he would?? Instead, you make…

          • “I have never devalued the importance of Eucharistic adoration.” = You HAVE devalued the importance of Eucharistic adoration when you teach others to devalue God by your example of devaluing God’s natural law. This is the SAME God. You cannot mock God and then say you adore God at the same time.

            You might be a shill on this website where none of your stories are true. True or not you will be held accountable for leading others to hell. Including yourself.

          • When this guy talks about his wife, he’s obviously holding her up as an example of faith and inspiration – as most of us with the Virgin Mary.
            Just because he praises his wifes ability to encourage and strengthen his faith, why do you call him “wimp” in such an insulting way??
            Do you think men who pray the rosary as “wimps” also?

          • Wait! Is that the distant sound of violins I’m hearing? Such drama, such pathos, so many life or death issues involved with going to Adoration for an hour ! Who knew!? I go during daylight hours but then I don’t have to go to work. We have quite a few couples come together. I don’t always make it but when I don’t go I feel like I’ve stood up my dearest love on date night. Heh. To each his own. I don’t remember any one here saying it was mandatory…why so prickly?

          • The above post was not addressed to you C & A. I’ve read that some Catholic faithful nod their heads when passing a Catholic Church in honor of Christ who resides there in the Sacrament. I’ve also read that Churches who have a vital Adoration practice see real spiritual growth and vitality. I so often think of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane when He asked the disciples. “Can you not keep watch with me for even one hour?” Adoration is more important than many people seem to grasp. If they truly believed Jesus was alive in the Sacrament they’d be flocking to their church to adore Him…wouldn’t they?

          • ….it’s not about painting a loving portrait, YFC, but the requisite headship of a man within the context of family. To include the sanctification and support of his wife – especially should she feel physically afraid in the executing of laudable devotion.

            Perhaps you and your partner, Anonymous, should go back to the drawing board. Your attempt at crafting the perfect tool to undermine Eucharistic Adoration,complete with Snow-White-stereotyping, failed miserably.

          • good grief, indeed

            You have no idea whether he CAN escort her out of the house.
            You have no idea if he does escort her that that asuages her fears or not.

          • Perhaps then he should have admitted to his inability to escort/protect his wife and not undermined Eucharistic Adoration.

          • I think he’s gone, Ann. The question of whether to go to Adoration is now moot.:(

          • ….methinks you’re right, Dana. And that’s the idea – to boot Our Lord out and move whoever in. Doesn’t matter who they are as long as it isn’t God…. and then call it holy.

            Of course, that’s the YFC method of building up the building!

            Sadly this is just a reiteration of the stone they have rejected being the cornerstone of the true City of God. All will fall to dust without Him as we can see all around despite the trumpeting.

        • Anonymous writes, “Abeca, in no place, at no time, did Jesus ask to be “perpetually adored.”

          Abeca responds…. “THANK YOU” anonymous.

          Mark 13:37
          And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch.

          Mark 14:34
          And he saith to them: My soul is sorrowful even unto death; stay you here, and watch.

      • St. Francis began the practice of Adoration. Bd.Fulton Sheen spent an hour every day in front of the Sacrament, as did St.Pope John Paul II. Jesus didn’t tell us to say the Apostles Creed or form religious orders either…He created a Church, His Bride, giving her the authority to make these practices and that what is bound on earth is bound in Heaven. I feel nothing but sypathy for you gentle folks that miss what Steve Phoenix is sharing with you. He is absolutely brilliant and I wish more people would appreciate the time he takes to explain so many lessons to us. His patience and generosity here is a Christian witness in itself. If he hasn’t written a book yet, I hope he does!

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Well for me Perpetual adoration is where im alone with our Lord. Where i get lost in His presence and i can be there for hours on end and desire in my heart to be with Him forever. Its so peaceful. Im grateful that we have several parishes that have their flock devoted to have it available.

          • I agree, Abeca . I hadn’t seen your post. When I enter the church in the afternoon and the western sun is shimmering through the stained glass and the water from the baptismal fountain gurgles like a bubbling brook its just me and Jesus….all else is completely silent and the Adoration room echoes with the countless prayers, sighs and tears of my fellow parishioners. It’s utter peace and unity and healing…a time of emptying out and being replenished, giving and taking.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Thank you Dana i agree. It is really a place i enjoy to visit. Thats why im hoping that this parish will someday have perpetual adoration but its true what concerns anonymous mentions because this parish is located in a bed area and i probably wont visit in the middle of the night. It wouldnt be safe but my local OF mass parish in a good location is safe enough for me to attend at midnight. Thank you Dana.

  13. Abeca Christian says:

    Today Father Zurita said an awesome and powerful homily faithful to the Magisterium! Praise be Jesus Christ! At one of the other OF parishes that i visit, Father Jacob gave an powerful homily as well at a later mass. Also faithful to the Magesterium! God bless our holy and obedient priests from both EF and OF parishes throughout the world! All for His glory, our Lord Jesus Christ!

    • Abeca Christian says:

      His homilies reach out to our youth. He has a gift. Praise Be Jesus Christ. Im speaking about Father Zurita. God bless him. He is a priest who takes His calling seriously and he reaches out to Christ’s flock.

  14. Steve Phoenix says:

    By the way, it is clear there are 2 churches vying to be the Catholic Church: read “Eleven Cardinals Speak on Marriage and Family” (Winfried Aymans, ed., Ignatius Press): one Church, the Traditional Church, teaches traditional Catholic marriage (which actually was affirmed in Gaudium et Spes, #47-52). The other church? Well you see that other church all the time claiming to be the Catholic Church.

    • There is one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
      This is a tenet of the Faith which must be believed. All other beliefs are heretical.

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        Oxymoronically-named “De fide” maintains a separate reality from the existing one: as Our Lady of Akita warned (1973), bishops will stand against bishops: Today the eleven cardinals mentioned are standing in support of Catholic marriage against the now-obvious opponents, so well-known now those opponents don’t even need to be named. This is the reality of the Church and world the rest of us have to live with. The Church is riven in two, and pious bleatings that “the Church is One” when it is split open would have served only to lull more people into the toxic coma of Arianism, were we in the time of Athanasius. It is just as poisonous now.

        • The eleven Cardinals and Our Lady of Akita do not agree with you. I would say you have been swept along in the tide of schism, but you swam uphill for a long time to get there. Repent.

  15. Ed Kasprzycki says:

    Bob One go to amazon or better yet to Angelus Press Online and buy the Liturgical Revolution Series by Micheal Davies.

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      Amen, Ed K.: If Bob One were to promise me he would read them cover-to-cover, I would pay for them for him to get the trilogy by Michael Davies.

      But I encounter much of the Novus Ordo is the Nervous Ordeal: meaning, they don’t like facts, analysis, comparison of contradiction. I don’t think he would really do it.

      • Steve, you are safe! Michael Davies was a very prolific writer against anything new in the Church; very much a traditionalist, even to the point of being a big supporter of the French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who caused a schism in the Church. His group, although no longer excommunicated and with the ability to hear confession and give absolution for the next year, are still not in unity with the Catholic Church. I think I’ll pass, not because I don’t want to read the “truth”, but because you pretty well say what he would say, don’t you agree?

        • Read our lips, Bob…there is no schism in SSPX.
          and I truly believe, as Michael Matt says on this video, that all of this debate about the N.O.Mass will be coming to a head soon and all the modernists are going to be exposed for the judgmental and unloving nouveau Catholics they truly are. We’re in epic times in the Church…the decisions this pope is making without due process, consulting no one, to change Church doctrine should be alarming everyone. Pray the St. Michael prayer at three pm everyday for our Church, the Magisterium and especially that God’s Will be done. God’s Will, and none other!

          • Kudos to His Excellency Bishop Morlino for speaking up in person. I pray others will cease and desist the mean spirited distraction that only facilitates the shakedown of Holy Mother Church.

            Thanks for posting, Dana.

      • There is an Apostolic Constitution written by Pope Paul VI called Missale Romanum which was issued in 1969. As you know, an Apostolic Constitution is the highest decree of a Pope. It goes over the revised Roman Missal.
        Michael Davies books are not from the Church. He was a supporter of Archbishop Lefebvre. This is a lay person whose opinions mean little. You should be trying to understand the holy prayer of the Mass better rather than looking for reasons to suspect and disrespect the “source and summit of the Catholic Faith..”

      • You should read the Baltimore Catechism #3 Q. 152-169.
        You are in grave error and are publicly espousing heresy.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          Now, elsewhere one of the caviling quaverers asserts an objection vs. “the fabricated liturgy of Trent”. Ordinarily I wouldn’t justify this bitterly ignorant claim with a response, but others who really want the facts need to know these:

          2014 ed. USCCB GIRM, #7 admits for the first time that the Mass at Trent was essentially unchanged from that of P. Innocent III (pontiff 1198-1216). That means another 3 and a half centuries prior to Trent, the Traditional Latin Mass was “in place”, so it is deliberately false to typify the Mass as “fabricated at Trent”, alone on these facts.

          Next,we have the Gelasian and Verona Sacramentaries.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            After the Verona, Gelasian sacramentaries, and the “Stowe Missal”, we have S. Ambrose (d. 397) own testimony quoting large elements of the Roman Canon and other prayers of the Offertory of the TLM in De Sacramentis (the MS dates from 600’s, but is integrally consistent with Ambrose’ teaching). So, now we have traced the TLM back to nearly 1200 years, 12 centuries, prior to Trent. Not that facts mean anything, I grant you..

            What about the period from 33AD – 398 AD? Ah: I am glad you asked…

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Now we are closing in on the period of 33 AD – 398 AD, as much as we can in 750 characters:

            The late Card. Alfons Stickler, a first-rate history scholar, in a series of lectures during the 1980’s and 1990’s, noted that the reason that the Roman Canon was not written prior to S. Ambrose was probably due to the “Disciplina Arcani”, or “Hidden Teachings”: the Sacred Mysteries were deliberately not written down to avoid profanation or worse, aping, by pagans: but they were committed to a memorized “text” which every priest and bishop had to maintain. So sacred was this unchangeable rule, it became called “The Canon” of the MIssa. In fact P. Gregory III added (note: added only) a few words to the Canon, ONLY for recitation in…

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            So sacred was this unchangeable rule, it became called “The Canon” of the MIssa. In fact P. Gregory III added (note: added only) a few words to the Canon, ONLY for recitation in an or atory within old S. Peter’s Basilica (732 AD) so well-known and sacred was this rule.

            Now, what of the Mass of “the Cenacle” of Our Lord, what the Catechism of Trent and of S. Pius X state “the Mass was instituted by Christ” (remember: we used to believe that, before the rational atheists started positing “the liturgy of Trent was fabricated also by men”?

            The Syriac liturgy of S. James (the patriarchy of Antioch) has a remarkable likeness to the prayers of the Roman Canon. In fact, that liturgy, preserved in the Maronite Liturgy, uses…

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          After Innocent III’s Mass (d. 1216), he being the contemporary pope of Dominic, Francis, and Clare, with the TLM already “in place”, we have the Gelasian and Verona Sacramentaries (ca. 525-725 AD), manuscripts that reveal the essential structure of the introits, secrets, propers and prayers of the TLM. This is a 1000 years (“thousand”) years prior to Trent.

          The “Stowe Missal” (named for the Irish library collection) dates from the 600’s-700’s: it has virtually the complete Roman Canon and Mass of the TLM also.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Here is yet one more summary reason to prefer the Traditional Latin Mass, the only Mass of the Western Church for roughly 1950 years until 1969: unlike the mistaken rationalist-atheist view of it “being fabricated at Trent” by men, it was the actual Mass of SS. Francis, Clare, Dominic, Catherne of Sienna, S. Bonaventure, S. Bernadine of Sienna, Fra Angelico—in fact just about anything you see and revere in Catholic tradition, art, and architecture.

            It also is the Mass “instituted by Christ” in the Eucharist (The Catechism of S. Pius X makes it clear The Eucharist and the Mass are one in their institution): leave the fabrications to the 1960’s fabricators. The only thing they didn’t have was a Singer sewing machine to…

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          The Syriac liturgy of S. James (dating to the 1st century AD, from the patriarchy of Antioch) has remarkable likenesses to the prayers of the Roman Canon. In fact, that liturgy, preserved in the Maronite Liturgy, uses Aramaic only even today in its remarkably similar Eucharistic Prayer. The Maronite Liturgy also specifically mentions it is “an unbloody sacrifice” in its offertory. We are essentially back to the Upper Room of Our Lord on Holy Thursday. The Mass of Trent goes back to the institution of Jesus Christ, 33 AD.

          But in the West, that tradition was maintained authentically anyway by Peter and Paul, Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus, and all the popes and the Roman martyrs and virgin-martyrs who preserved the tradition they…

      • Changing facts, analysis, and comparisons is the only way that people who call the mass the “Nervous Ordeal” make a living.

        Calling the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by such a name is traitorous, heretical, and evil.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          The “Nervous Ordeal” refers to the twisting and contradiction of facts, which cannot face the truth, and shortly resorts to the safe haven of name-calling when eventually bitter ignorance slams head-on into the facts. It is when faced with those facts that the screaming of the Nervous Ordeal faction begins. It is an emotional liturgy and its adherents are often equally emotional and irrational.

          I would also expect those who haven’t read Michael Davies’ trilogy to attack the source, as Bob One predictably did, to shield them from their ignorance of those facts: in fact, Davies’ work was praised by then-Card. Ratzinger as well as other main-line Catholic leaders.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            In fact, Davies’ work greatly influenced the correction that P. Benedict XVI completed in Summorum Pontificum.

            Of course, Benedict XVI paid the ultimate price for his loyalty to the facts and was similarly attacked as “traitorous” and evil. So bring it on, Nervous Ordealists: the facts are your enemy as well.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            “I have been profoundly touched by the news of the death of Michael Davies. I had the good fortune to meet him several times and I found him to be a man of deep faith and ready to embrace suffering. Ever since the Council he put all his energy into the service of the Faith and left us important publications especially on the sacred liturgy. Even though he suffered from the Church in many ways in his time, he always truly remained a man of the Church.” –then-Card. Joseph Ratzinger, 2004.

  16. Can we all agree that there is only one, true, catholic and apostolic church? We say that at every Mass when we recite the Nicene Creed. The Roman Catholic Church has two forms of the Mass, the NO and the Extra-Ordinary form. Both have the same value, just some different prayers and gestures and in some cases, different style vestments. Can we all agree that millions and millions of people attend the NO each week and some prefer to attend the EO form? If we agree on those issues, can’t both preference groups stop writing hate mail against the others. People who like one form over the other are not evil. It is time to stop the NO/EO hate which tears the Church from within.

    • Concerning your post at 8:40 am today, Bob One, I agree. Let’s stop making everything an “I win, your lose situation”.

      Concerning Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, it is very important for most Catholics. Even some of the churches with NO Masses only have Adoration chapels. After all, we cannot give what we have not received, and the graces for doing good come from God. Mother Teresa and her sisters always visited Christ in the tabernacle before going out to help the poor, just as Mother Angela and her nuns do. Nevertheless, there are some people who cannot get to Adoration, and receive the graces in other ways — through the Sacraments and other prayers and devotions — such as the gentlemen mentioned about his wife. Both view…

    • Bob One the NO is the start of the tearing… it never should have come into existence the TLM was the once source of unity we had… but modernist wreck everything…no Bob One I will not agree … a schism is well on its way…

      • Abeca Christian says:

        The blood of Jesus protect us here and our conversations. Canisius may God have merci on your soul. Your comments are scandalous.

        • Hey Abeca if you think my comments are scandalous what about what the German Bishops are doing. Stop with childish pollyanna attitude… we are hare breaths away from a schism because of modernist liberals like YFC and Bob One..

          • ….thanks for your comments, Canisius. Unfortunately, what some fail to understand is the upholding of stubborn ignorance by supposedly faithful Catholics is the biggest of scandals.

            Wise as serpents, but innocent as doves has been twisted by many to be wise as new born babes and innocent as the willing accessory to Judas.

      • Canisius, I understand what you are saying about the “unity” created by the ancient TLM, but the uniting force within the Church is now the Ordinary Form of the Mass. I know that it is not in Latin world-wide as of yore, but the Liturgy is the same in all countries of the world, but in the vernacular of those countries or of the people attending. The Extra-Ordinary form is of course permitted world-wide as well when demanded by the people. The OF is not a modernist wreck, but a uniting force for billions of people.

        • “…ancient” “…as of yore” Love the choice of words, Bob One. But is precisely the timelessness of what you call out that is what unites the faithful, not only to one another in “these times” but to the Mystical Body of Christ that began long before the so-called unity manufactured by the Novus Ordo Missae.

          It is such timelessness that also unites the faithful to the Faith, by maintaining the outward signs that bear testimony to the otherwise hidden mysteries – specifically, Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, not a disjointed rite that would obfuscate that reality from parish to parish, diocese to diocese, state to state, country to country.

        • The OF is modernist wrecking device Bob One….

      • Canisius, you keep ignoring the fact that the RCC never ever had a uniform liturgy across all the catholic church. Never ever. Never did, never will, at least on this earth.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          The counter-claim to Canisius that ” the RCC never ever had a uniform liturgy” is bitterly ignorant of the Roman Rite in the Western Latin Church—and now an effort to spread confusion and distraction by vague references (apparently) to other uniate Catholic Churches.

          In fact, as mentioned elsewhere the Syriac “Liturgy of St James” (100 AD) is remarkably alike to the Roman Canon and Mass in its prayers and invocations.

          The Anti-Traditional Latin Mass faction really should avoid any appeal to tradition, history, and facts. The 1969 creation called the Novus Ordo (a name coined by the Vatican Commission itself in April, ’69) is a modern fabrication by Abps. Bugnini, Weakland and several Protestant observers (most notably Max…

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Well at least you are now admitting that when you speak of a uniform liturgy you must qualify it to the Roman Rite of the Western Latin Church. You still can’t quite bring yourself to acknowledge that the Roman Rite of the Western Latin Church, as you put it, is but one part of One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which shares one creed, one faith, one Lord, and One Baptism. Many liturgies have always existed, and probably always will exist, and having different liturgies proves that a uniform and unchanging liturgy is not a mark of the Catholic Church.Never has been. Never will be.

          • And yet the fabrication of the Novus Ordo out of thin air is rather unique, no organic development. Like those who seek to recapture something of history only to bring forth a costume drama with no understanding of historical accuracy or context.

            The desperate grasp to create on-the-spot liturgy can never replace organic development Never can. Never will. Same goes for the more recent attempt for on-the-spot undermining of Catholic faith/morals.

          • Read the CCC on the Mass.

          • Ann Malley, fabricated out of thin air? The changes were based on liturgical studies of the earliest Christian Masses, just like the Mass of St. Pius V was in the 1500s. If you are going to do apologetics for traditionalism you should at least learn the subject.

          • Yes, Anonymous, fabricated out of thin air. The changes were based on what the theologians wanted to draw forth from the earliest Christian masses without any understanding that context is everything.

            If you are going to stump for modernism, you need to understand that pulling some threads from the past without any concern/conscientiousness of where those threads connect is often the act of one who wants to unravel the sweater.

            It’s fakery, Anonymous, much like wearing a toga and calling your men’s club the senate is no rebirth of ancient Rome. Good luck with that.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Since an oxymoronically-named Fellow Catholic has abandoned his original premise, posited originally that “the [Roman Catholic Church] never ever had a uniform liturgy”, and has now tried to side-step the issue —namely, that the organic development of the Roman Rite is the Traditional Latin Mass — with fantastic claims about the other 4 ancient patriarchies (Byzantine/Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, surprise, that they too each have a single organically developed rite) , we can conclude the point has been established that the Bugnini-Weakland 1969 Novus Ordo rite was a fabricated man-made liturgy and has no real organic relationship to any of the 5 mentioned above.

          • What theologians?
            What context?
            I have never stumped for modernism, just for education.
            You could spend less than 10 dollars and get a good book to explain the Mass to you.

          • Steve Phoenix, then how come it is almost exactly the same as the TLM?

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Steve Phoenix, I have not sidestepped anything I’ve said, so let me say it again. The RCC has NEVER had a uniform liturgy, ever, unless you count to first and only mass celebrated on Holy Thursday.

            The RCC has many rites, each with slightly different liturgies. The Latin Rite itself has had many liturgies at once throughout all its history. Trent tried (and failed) to create a uniform liturgy for the Latin Rite – and didn’t even try for the Eastern Rites or the Orthodox. The Tridentine mass was never uniform, nor is its antiquity and history devoid of its own development. So the Tridentine Mass was neither uniform throughout the Church at any one time, nor even uniform throughout its own history.

        • Wrong Anon…. the Western Church has the Uniform TLM before the 1969 nightmare ie the OF

    • Friendly amendment to Bob One’s post?

      The Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church has two forms. The Eastern Rites of the Roman Catholic Church have their own liturgies.

  17. All this fuss, when some folks want EVERY PARISH ON EARTH to have Mass in Latin and Perpetual Adoration.
    We need neither.
    Even as the Catholic Church developed over the ages (to have things like Mass in Latin, and Eucharistic Adoration), the Church continues to develop, with new things coming in – like the Gubbio Project at St. Boniface Church here in San Francisco’s Tenderloin District, where homeless people can find a safe place to sleep during the day.
    Maybe this pleases the Lord Jesus more than most things we cook up.

    • Better yet, Eleanor, why don’t you open up YOUR home to some of those folks? It’s so good of you and I know they’d appreciate a nice soft bed for a change instead of hard, cold pew! And I know they’d much rather have a real toilet instead of church floor and the custodian would really appreciate your efforts as all the burden of cleaning up urine , feces and vomit falls on him. What a big heart you have! Jesus is so pleased with you!

      • Dana have you opened your home? No I didn’t think so.

        • ….and you, Anonymous, cannot even open up enough to give yourself a unique moniker so as to be responsible for your statements on CCD. But Anonymous own his/her comments and all they imply? No, we all know that won’t happen.

        • I wasn’t professing to be holier than thou, anon…and frankly, opening up our churches for addicts and drunks to defecate in is not a very good idea, wouldn’t you agree? My point, since I have to spell it out 😉 is that it’s easy to feel good about yourself by offering someone else’s sacrifice to be seen as charitable yourself…like so many liberal politicians who are generally found to be real nip farthings when anyone checks on their giving practices.

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      Perfect, Eleanor: I am glad you mentioned the Gubbio Project, which has turned venerable and historic S. Boniface Church, built by Br. Weber, here on Golden Gate Avenue literally into a flophouse and a latrine for the mentally disturbed and the transients, when there never was any need for this: St Anthony’s Dining Room and its affiliated facilities totally provide an alternative.

      So now the House of God is turned into a place where you dare not go to visit,
      especially you, Eleanor, assuming you are a female, because you may be attacked or worse. Utter foolishness.

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        I am with Canisius 100% on this regarding this fake attempt at Franciscan Revivalism AKA “The Gubbio Project”: for those who don’t know, during the day, the magnificent, venerable House of God, S. Boniface Church, a historic and holy place, is literally turned into a flophouse and a latrine—theoretically for the homeless “to have some place to go for the day”—when there are plenty of facilities to shelter them in SF during the day. What was once a true and holy sanctuary you dare not go into: it isn’t just the aggressive pan-handling, but Golden Gate and all the downtown streets of SF are dangerous and literally fouled with excrement and urine. Because I cite these facts, I know I will be accused of being cruuuel and haaarsh:…

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          St Boniface (dating from 1860) is an amazing testimony to the once-vibrant truly Catholic Faith that resounded in this now-pitiful city. It is a crime to treat it this way, when alternatives are everywhere available.

          And I know, Eleanor, or any others, that you don’t walk the streets of the Tenderloin (the area around St Boniface), and I recommend you do not, nor that you frequent St. Boniface at any time during the day. Best you do not. No one who knows the reality on the street could have the rose-tinted gleam about praising this disaster (the “Gubbio Project”), this self-preening promotion by the Franciscans and their secular puppetmasters, for this sacred precinct.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            What do I mean? Well, let me give an example.
            Not long ago, I walked from Marines Memorial with my brother up to Nob Hill, a few hundred feet from St Boniface around noon. The street gangs on the corners, all with their lookouts with cell-phones, the aggressive transients, the mentally ill — and both my brother and I are 6′ 1″ or taller, I am 210 lbs and (you have to take my word for it) not overweight and my brother 250 lbs and all muscle—so they gave us a fair berth: but you, Eleanore and any others, do not walk around “the Gubbio Project” if you care for your well-being. Nonsense and madness.

            At night the ungodly and unearthly screaming of the criminals, the insane, and the street transients would make a normal…

      • Thank you for your information but honestly that is what we are called to do: to see Christ in the least of our brothers. They used to call it “Jesus in distressing disguise.” These are the exact people that we are called to help. I have never had a problem giving to the homeless. I remember once I had no money so I went to eat and was going to take the homeless man the change but when I went back he was gone. I’ve been criticized some times for giving them too much. Oh well, it is hard to know how much is enough. I don’t know what it is like in SF other than that it has the highest homeless population per capita of any US city.

        • Please be careful, anonymous. Not only are you enabling these people to use your money for more drugs , you also risk losing your life. If you want to help people, give to the poor family who are buying food for their children at the grocery checkout, or have coats and hats in your car to give to people that need it when the weather is bad. Money is the worse thing you can give them. Give them food, a Bible or clothes.

          • ….making a habit of getting an extra something at a restaurant when one goes out and then giving it away on the drive home works, too. It’s hot food…. especially on cold or rainy nights. Love that idea about warm clothes. One can also sprinkle them with holy water and attach a miraculous medal. Never know.

            But Dana is right.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          To Sept 13th, 12:57 AM Anonymous, the way to resolve your concern is to do what I have done for years: keep several cards from St Vincent De Paul’s nearby location, from St Anthony’s Foundation, Salvation Army, or in Phoenix I carried cards from Andre House, and give one to the individual, and let them know the name of your contact there, and that you will be calling them on their behalf.—but give the money directly to the foundation if you really want to do good. St Vincent De Paul organization has a wonderful and just way of distributing assistance in a fair way to those truly in need.

          However, giving out money on the street to transient people is — based on years of experience — a bad and overly simplified option.

    • “ike the Gubbio Project at St. Boniface Church here in San Francisco’s Tenderloin District, where homeless people can find a safe place to sleep during the day.” I highly doubt he is pleased with his home being turned into a hostel for drug addicts …

      • Its exactly what Christ would do!

        • Prove that statement Bob One,,,when clearly states My House shall be House of Prayer…not a methadone clinic .. I truly detest social justice Catholics…

          • Canisius, the Catholic faith is very much about Social Justice. I invite you to read the Catechism #1397. I invite you to read the Bible where we are told that we must, because we were saved by the crucified and risen Christ, that we must look after our fellow human beings. Canisius, I invite you to read the Church’s statements about Catholic Social Teachings.

          • Bob One I reject all of your liberal interpretations of the Catechism and Scripture…

        • “I know about human hunger! I have gone without food Myself for forty days. But I refuse to become a mere social reformer who caters only to the belly. You cannot say that I am unconcerned with social justice, for I am feeling at this moment the hunger of the world. I am One with every poor, starving member of the race. That is why I have fasted: so that they can never say that God does not know what hunger is. Begone, Satan! I am not just a social worker who has never been hungry Himself, but One who says, ‘I reject any plan which promises to make men richer without making them holier.” – Bishop Fulton Sheen- Life of Christ, p.71

      • Canisius … I think you’re wrong. Where in the Gospels do you find Jesus distainful or hostile to the downtrodden?

        • Anon I could care less what you think….you liberals have never figured out when Christ referred to the poor he meant the poor in spirit not materially poor. But then again you are liberals.

          • Canisius, I invite you to read the complete statements about Catholic Social Teachings on the USCCB web site. A short piece states: “Catholic social teaching emerges from the truth of what God has revealed to us about himself. We believe in the triune God whose very nature is communal and social. God the Father sends his only Son Jesus Christ and shares the Holy Spirit as his gift of love. God reveals himself to us as one who is not alone, but rather as one who is relational, one who is Trinity. Therefore, we who are made in God’s image share this communal, social nature. We are called to reach out and to build relationships of love and justice.”

          • Justice according to who? you ? Bob One?… It is you and your fellow travelers whose idea of “justice” who has created generations of government dependency and sloth. You will attack poverty and in the same breath attack the one system that has lifted millions out of it. Our pathetic bishops will say we must do more while they sit in their residences supported by Faithful Catholics. Anyone who believes in self reliance is considered “greedy” and “selfish”…the USCCB is a joke to be mocked.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            If it is being “liberal” to take literally what Jesus said regarding the poor (in as recently as yesterday’s Gospel reading), then I’d be a proud liberal along with the early Church as described in the Epistles, with Saint Francis, and with Saint Mother Theresa.

            “If a brother or sister has nothing to wear
            and has no food for the day,
            and one of you says to them,
            “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well, ”
            but you do not give them the necessities of the body,
            what good is it?
            So also faith of itself,
            if it does not have works, is dead.”

            —-The Liberal, Jesus

          • He meant the poor, the materially poor.
            Luke 3:11
            James 1:27
            Matthew 25:31-46
            Luke 14:13
            Deuteronomy 15:11

          • No He meant the Spiritually poor… there is no and never was such thing as a Liberal Jesus…reason He is and will be Judgmental

          • YFC any day of the week I would compare who I give my money to and who you give yours too…I bet that whatever charity you donate to is an enemy of the Church…

        • He healed them. If Jesus thought what they were doing was okay, then why did He heal them from their afflictions?

          • …because Our Lord believes in the supernatural unlike many who would negate the spiritual works of mercy as a waste. Much like Judas who wanted to use the money from the sale of nard to “help the poor.” Sounds great. But the underlying reality is a loss of supernatural faith.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            He never healed the poor. Where do you make up such a thing from?

          • ….yes, indeed, YFC. Our Lord healed the poor. He healed those too poor for a doctor and those who couldn’t be healed because no amount of money could cure their affliction. Much like no amount of money can cure the affliction of a heart that rejects the supernatural gifts He offers.

            You may want to study scripture and the Catholic Faith. The source you draw from seems poisoned judging by what you post and what you fail to comprehend – at least that which you “say” you do not comprehend.

            I pray God to heal you in whatever manner necessary.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Where did Jesus heal the poor? Please provide the reference in the Gospels The closest thing is the parable of the Good Samaritan, who paid to have the wounds bandaged of the man attacked by robbers and left impoverished .

      • Perhaps you would be happier if the convent or other facilities were converted into multi million dollar condos for the retired clerics of the parish?

        Just asking!!

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          Hi, YFC: why don’t you post under your regular moniker?

        • I would prefer the mass exodus of liberals from the Church forever … so they can never corrupt it….

        • Let me stand up for retired priests! Being a priest is a hard job and they give up a lot for it. Their retirement plans aren’t generious and since we pay them so little their social security is small. We should thank them for their lifetimes of service in any way we can!

          • For once C&H I agree with you provided the priest in question has been a holy one

          • Abeca Christian says:

            C&H you and Canisius agree. Does that mean he is going to your side? YFC isnt this an interesting sight for sore eyes. Lets see if Catherine or AM insinuates that there is something going on with the 2. But of course not. They are such hypocrates and get what they deserve in these comments.

  18. STEVE PHOENIX writes – “…you mentioned the Gubbio Project, which has turned venerable and historic S. Boniface Church, built by Br. Weber, here on Golden Gate Avenue literally into a flophouse and a latrine for the mentally disturbed and the transients…”
    This sounds like the very people Jesus reached out to in person, when others turned away from them.

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      Yes, Eleanor, I know you do not know what you are talking about when you talk about the current state of the Tenderloin and the realities of “The Gubbio Project”, and will wrap yourself in your vague self-congratulatory liberal theories: I dare you (you’d better not, if you don’t want to be mugged) to walk from Market St up Golden Gate Avenue anytime, night or day by yourself. It would be a good reality check for you. Just for an image for the rest of those who want to know:

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        But, for the Eleanors among us, it is a fact that the only time we know Our Lord became angry to the point of physical violence, he cast out those who had desecrated it from a sanctuary, “a house of prayer”, to a virtual flophouse and a latrine (, for example, Mt. 21:13).

        But those who are socialist atheists (and I don’t necessarily refer to Eleanor) have always believed that churches are a useless waste of space for the opiate of the masses: turn them into libraries, meeting halls, and flophouses for transients.

        And lest you try to demonize me for being cruuel and haarsh, the reality is there are many facilities to house transients (“homeless” is a self-designed misnomer) safely 24/7 in SF: It is NOT needed to be in a…

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          So sorry that Eleanor seems to have gotten your feathers all ruffled. But you completely misunderstand the scene at the Temple that made Jesus so angry. It wasn’t that the Temple had been turned in to a “flophouse”. What translation of the Bible are you using there, Stevie? Maybe you should buy a better one. It was that the Temple had been turned into a place for profiteering. A place where the gifts of God, which should be freely given, were bought and sold as commodities, and in so doing, cheapening the God was giving away for free.

          • It would appear Steve Phoenix has ruffled your feathers, Your Foolish Change-agent. Stevie? Really?

            Our Lord was and still is filled with zeal for Gods house – much like He is filled with zeal over the temple of our bodies that He would not have defiled. (That’s why He died such a cruel death.)

            Many ignore that zeal, choosing to defile the temple of their body, YFC, and God’s Church. But while the buyers and sellers wanted to make a profit off of the worship of God, modernists would rather profit as they will and turn God out of His house all together.

            And again, the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Putting aside the now-typical self-satisfying gratuitous insults and condescension for which the oxymoronically-named Fellow Catholic is becoming synonymous: there is plenty of profiteering in the social service industry, as I have documented before, having worked in them for some time: the poor and indigent never get real help; the budgets always grow; and the executive staff grab a great salary and benefits and jet off to a new world conference in some luminous capital, and the problem gets worse–always.

            As for the Scriptures, the basis is solidly attested: the House of God was turned into a desecrated place. Times have not changed. Avarice of then is exchanged for atheism of now.

          • It would seem to me that you are the modernist then. Although you didn’t turn God out of his house. You stole HIm.

    • …yes, Eleanor, but those folks were always welcomed into God’s house wherein they could receive the truth that saves. Now there is a place to sleep. But what’s next? More and more it seems that the Faithful do not feel the need or are ashamed to pass on or stand up for the actual Faith…. giving consecrated Churches over to be desecrated.

      You wrote, “…Even as the Catholic Church developed over the ages.” What you seem to grab at is the idea that a Church without God and/or a Church without the Faith in Him is what “might be” pleasing to God.

      Why is that?

  19. Marin County Man says:

    Pope SAINT John Paul II, in his 1991 Encyclical “Centesiumus Annus” (for those who seem to look down on the poor, like the folks helped by the Gubbio Project):
    “58. Love for others, and in the first place love for the poor, in whom the Church sees Christ himself, is made concrete in the promotion of justice. Justice will never be fully attained unless people see in the poor person, who is asking for help in order to survive, NOT an annoyance or a burden, but an OPPORTUNITY for showing kindness and a chance for greater enrichment.”

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      Marin, you clearly do not frequent the streets of SF nor have tried to use S. Boniface as a house of prayer, and have given up, as I have; and you are deliberately missing the point, that St Boniface does not need to be opened up to be used as a flophouse and a latrine, when there are abundant alternative facilities available 24/7 in SF.

      This is an effort to turn a sacred precinct into another secular socialist project, an atheist’s dream.

      • Marin County Man says:

        Actually, I work downtown in SF, not far from St. Boniface, and am familiar with the mess in that area.
        Which is PRECISELY why I admire the Roman Catholic Church for opening this sacred space to God’s poor: at least during the day, they have a safe place to sleep, unmolested by gangs who beat up the homeless, set them on fire, etc.
        When it comes to church buildings, it’s not either/or: we can use them for sacred worship, but also for helping those in need.

        • Ah yes the liberal Catholic’s eternal veneration of the poor, being poor does not mean being virtuous, so of the worst human beings I have ever met were “poor”..Yet liberals and the this Pope castigate those who managed to stay out of poverty… sick of it

          • Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
            44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
            45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
            46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
            47 And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
            48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          Pardon me, Marin, but I didn’t get the impression that you are or have been a regular at S. Boniface but only that you “work downtown in SF, not far from St. Boniface, and are familiar with the mess”. Then if so, you know special treatment is needed for the problem—not the effective de-consecration of a House of God. I don’t know if you have advocated to house the transients in your neighborhood in Marin or at your parish church, just to be consistent.

          Or, otherwise, you run the risk that you would only be one like those “progressive-in-philosophy, not-in-practice” types, for example that think public schools are wonderful places for children, but wouldn’t themselves ever abandon their own child to those prisons. It is…

          • Phoenix, since you asked, our Marin County parish DOES invite the homeless to sleep in our building, and our parishioners (entire families) come together to cook hot meals for them, serve them, and sit down and eat with them.
            It’s called the REST Program, and churches and synagogues in Marin County have been doing this for years.
            (REST stands for Rotating Emergency Shelter Team, I believe…in any case, our children find it to be one of the most inspiring types of service they engage in.)

          • Anon, I hadn’t read your post and was not referring to your situation at all. You’re using your own funds and time to help people down on their luck and teaching your children to truly follow our Lord’s teaching. Good for you and God bless all of you for caring for those who would otherwise be alone and forgotten.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            I am sure you are right, Marin: now is that inside the church? Which parish is that? I had not heard of that.Because that IS the question: must the sacred consecrated”space” be given up to a dormitory, and why, when stern actives are readily available?

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            I am glad to hear that services to the homeless, which I too have supported with my own shoulders and my work, as well as my own money, for years provides sleeping quarters in a building, apart from the church: which is exactly the point, that it does not require the effective de-consecration of the House of God, where all should be able to safely worship in the Church. However, according to the “Rotating Emergency Shelter Team” pdf put out by St. Johns Episcopal, it is a little misleading to suggest the church building is used: in fact they use on a limited basis, the parish halls of these participating different churches. So, let’s not be misleading, which I think the Anonymous comment Sept 15 5:49pm appears to be.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Here is the pdf. by St. John’s Episcopal Church in Marin which is commendable for its common sense and controls on the problem:


            They do NOT house people in the church itself: which has been my point from the beginning and to which the tone-deaf progressives pretend they have not heard: there is not need for the Gubbio Project to effectively desecrate sacred ground in St. Boniface Church, and use the transients, with their significant and varied problems,, as human shields and pawns for liberal-progressive better-than-thou-ism. More suitable spaces easily can be utilized for day-lounges, with proper toilet facilities and supervision. But that never was the purpose…

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            And here is another thing: I intuited from the beginning when the Franciscans first adopted the “Gubbio Project” proposal some years ago that it was a political make-over, since it came after the shocking and devastatingly pervasive account of criminal sexual abuses in the Franciscan Province, esp. at St. Anthony’s Seminary in Santa Barbara, but also elsewhere. One young Franciscan commiserated how homosexually active the entire province (with exceptions) was, at the time.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            So, faced with a bad image-problem, what do you do: Simple, adopt a well-known secular-atheist dream—de-consecrate a church building (since there is no God, after all, and He certainly does live in wafer-like bread in a tabernacle)—and turn St. Boniface over to the street.

            It didn’t cost the Franciscans anything: you have no idea how many Franciscan “priests” I have worked with (not all: I am excepting some wonderful saintly old-timers, but they were often ostracized and derided behind their backs) who didn’t believe in the Transubstantiated Presence in the Eucharist one whit. In fact, it furthered both groups’ needs and agendas quite well.

            Usquequo, Domine, veniet cito. The madness is without surcease.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            DId not Saint Francis, a homeless itinerate evangelist, inhabit San Damiano while he rebuilt it?

          • Oh, yfc, have you know shame? I’m pretty sure Michaelangelo spent many a night in the Sistine Chaple, too. For that matter, I remember that St. Theresa of Avilla spent many nights praying on her knees at the Altar, as did St Catherine of Sienna. Surely you’re not comparing such as these to drug addicts sleeping off a fix?

          • Your stereotyping and bigotry of the homeless is disgusting.

          • The Project uses the back 2/3 of the sanctuary; the church uses the front 1/3 to celebrate the two daily masses. This sends a powerful message to our unhoused neighbors – they are in essence part of the community, not to be kicked out when those with homes come in to worship. It also sends a message to those attending mass – the community includes the tired, the poor, those with mental health issues and those who are wet, cold and dirty.

          • ..was he actively working to rebuild the Church, YFC? Or was he desecrating it?

            That’s the question.

          • If you think letting poor people into a Church to rest is desecrating it, you don’t belong in it.

          • Ann, I think yfc enjoys having us on.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Here is the pdf. by St. John’s Episcopal Church in Marin which is commendable for its common sense and controls on the problem:


            They do NOT house people in the church itself: which has been my point from the beginning and to which the tone-deaf progressives pretend they have not heard: there is not need for the Gubbio Project to effectively desecrate sacred ground in St. Boniface Church, and use the transients, with their significant and varied problems,, as human shields and pawns for liberal-progressive better-than-thou-ism. More suitable spaces easily can be utilized for day-lounges, with proper toilet facilities and supervision. But that never was the purpose…

          • I’m sorry Steve,,,my bad. I’m afraid he scarpered off after my post saying he was a snob etc. If only I had your forebearance but when he wrote supporting that giant billboard mocking Kim Davis and the people of Kentucky I couldn’t let that pass. This arrogant elitism permeates a whole stratum of society composed of people who are brainwashed but not taught how to think, educated but illiterate, clever but unable to reason and who think common sense is an outgrowth of ignorance.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          It is the same for abandoning the elderly, day workers seeking a moment of peace, women (who cant be sure they are safe even in a church) to a disaster called “The Gubbio Project.”

          Yes, pardon me, because I haven’t known if I have seen you there, Marin, when a deranged transient comes up behind you and taps you suddenly on the shoulder (happens all the time), or stands up and suddenly begins screaming bloody murder in a psychotic episode. But you know, this should be something you are OK with. Schizophrenia happens. And it an also be OK in your parish church, in your neighborhood, around your wife or children or elderly parents, I am sure.

          • This false compassion just turns my stomach. Perhaps people were insensitive “back in the day’ when they expected men to work, support families and their communities and be a good example to children but at least they didn’t enable them to fail and support them in their self-destruction. Liberalism is the breeding ground for grave sins for it produces the environment (no fault divorce, legalized drugs and gambling, pornography as entertainment in all the media, abortion…in short, a sin-free society) then Ladt Bountiful ( such as Nancy Pelosi or Susan Sarondon) and Sir Noblesse Oblidge (Gerry Brown, Obama et al) can take our money and spend it on myriad charities that pander to this huge industry. Aren’t they caring people though?

  20. Maryanne Leonard says:

    Nod their heads when passing a Catholic Church? Maybe I was educated in the pre-Vatican era, but I was taught to make the sign of the cross when passing a Catholic Church to honor Christ in the Sacrament. I do that every time I see a Catholic Church; isn’t that what you’re supposed to do? Nod my head? I don’t think I could simply nod my head after all these years of reverently crossing myself! That’s what you do when you speak the name of Jesus! What were you taught?

    • Maryanne . Growing up in the post Vatican II world, I also learned to make the Sign of the Cross whan passing a church. I suppose when riding a motorcycle where it would be unsafe to take your grip off the handlebars and nod would have to do.

  21. JANEK proclaims:
    “Now contrast this parish with the one below Most Holy Redeemer in San Francisco, your soul will be saved at St. Anne’s but not at Most Holy Redeemer.”
    Well, little did I know that The Lord Jesus only works in certain parish boundaries!
    Janek, you really should publish a little guide book for souls, as you’d make a bundle.

    • Actually, Anonymous, Our Lord works through His ministers which is why it is critical that His ministers say a constant, “Yes,” to Him instead of choosing those with itching ears to be their masters.

      And the little guidebook for souls already exists in the Deposit of the Faith, but that is sadly not the best seller it used to be. Likely because those entrusted with propagating it have themselves become enthralled with more novel reading material. Discarding the words of the master to the detriment of all in their care.

  22. Steve Phoenix says:

    Sept. 12th, someone posts “The changes [the “Novus Ordo” Mass] were based on liturgical studies of the earliest Christian Masses, just like the Mass of St. Pius V was in the 1500s.

    Utter nonsense. #1. Abp. Bugnini made claims that he had studied “earliest Christian Masses” (as though there were several variants). Do you know what? According to historian Dr. Robert De Mattei, there are no records, no “minutes” of his Consilium committee as to what he studied at all. What is clear is that Bugnini, when the need arose, simply “made things up”, like the mythical “Eucharistic Prayer of St. Hippolytus” (Our Eucharistic Prayer #2).

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      #2. The claim that Trent was fabricated in 1570 the way that the Novus Ordo was created in 1969 is denied by the most recent Gen. Instr. of the Roman Missal (4th ed), 2014: ” In fact, the Missal of 1570 differs very little from the very first printed edition of 1474, which in turn faithfully takes up again the Missal used in the time of Pope Innocent III.” For you who do not know, Innocent III, was pope from 1198-1216: he was the contemporary of SS. Francis of Assisi, Dominic, and Clare. This means the Trad. Latin Mass was intact and in place 350 years before Trent, and NOT “created” by S Pius V, as in fact the Bugnini Novus Ordo Mass was created in 1969 by the Consilium — without the approval of the Council, mind you, which had…

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        This means the Trad. Latin Mass was intact and in place over 350 years before Trent, and NOT “created” by S Pius V in 1570, as in fact the Bugnini Novus Ordo Mass was created in 1969 on their own by the Consilium — WITHOUT the approval of the Council Fathers, mind you (a big deal to the Conciliarists), which had long since de-convened in Dec. 1965.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          So what this all means is that the Novus Ordo’s beginnings, which have been swathed from its conception in misleading statements and bogus claims of antiquity, claims so misleading they successfully misled Paul VI who was intimidated by Bugnini’s supposed “scholarship”—are in fact a fabrication and a man-made liturgy! And many of you have been misled, or outright lied to, for over 40 years.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            And you, too, if you care enough about your soul and the truth, can find out the same objective facts, if you want to, with some effort, but it is there, more than ever before: You can read Romano Amerio, Msgr. Klaus Gamber, Michael Davies, Roberto de Mattei, and best of all read the contrivers themselves, since now their journals and autobios are available, esp. those of Rembert Weakland and Yves Congar.

          • The beginning of the Mass are the Last Supper and the Crucifixion.

          • And the Annunciation and Nativity.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          What about the Byzantine Rites?

          What about the masses before Innocent III? Can we see his mass? Can we compare it to Trent? Why was TLM even needed if the masses were the same going back 350 years? Why does Trent make mention of the many variants of the Latin Rite Mass extant in the 16th century?

        • The Council Fathers wouldn’t need to approve it, just as the Council Fathers of Trent did not need to approve the Missal of 1570. That is the Pope’s job and the Pope approved it and promulgated it. The Mass is the source and summit of the Catholic Faith. It is the sacrifice of Calvary. It is the highest prayer of the Church. It is so important that missing a Sunday Mass without a serious reason such as illness or caring for the ill, infants or elderly is a mortal sin.
          If you are saying that the Mass is less than that, you are teaching something contrary to the Catholic Faith.
          I do not know why these 2 people are on the warpath against the Holy Mass. Please pray for them.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            The point about the 1969 Mass being submitted to Paul VI well after the conclusion of the Council is that “conciliarists” try to present it as though it was the will of the Council Fathers. Not.
            In fact, according to eyewitness and liturgy expert Monsgr. Klaus Gamber (cf “The Reform of the Roman Liturgy, 1982), the 1969 Novus Ordo was never at all what the Council Fathers had in mind by “a general restoration of the liturgy itself” (see Sacro. Concillium #21), certainly NEVER the abrogation of the Traditional Latin Mass

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Now, technically, yes, the Pope has absolute authority over the Liturgy: and yet when the first radical moves were made to set aside the original schemata, including “On the Liturgy”, P. John XXIII at that time (we now know) was already quite ill with stomach cancer even by Sept. 1962. According to Yves Congar (he was already cancelling conferences and audiences significantly by Nov. 29th, 1962 according to Congar’s journal) and Ottaviani’s own recounting, John XXIII was almost completely unavailable and unresponsive. Into that vacuum, the Consilium was created which was given great powers to change the liturgy “according to the Council Fathers’ wishes.”

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Bugnini’s Consilium went to work right away, after the approval of Sacro. Conc. in Dec, 1963—issuing directives independent of the decrees of the Council, including for example the famous “destruction of the altars” (“the altar should be free-standing”, in the orig. version of GIRM)— Bugnini admitted himself in his autobiographical account that he “exceeded” the wishes of the Council Fathers.

            However, he was still respected as the great liturgical scholar of Pius XII (he had been responsible for the reformation of the Holy Week liturgy), and no one, including Paul VI had the courage, even had he known the level of deception to which he was being exposed, to resist Bugnini’s creation of a new mass, even indeed with 3 new…

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            However, if a Pope is deceived, and we now know based on the research conducted into Bugnini’s hiding or destruction of the records of the Consilium proceedings (probably destruction of, because he was alert enough to know they were unsustainable before rigorous historical scholarship), that a liturgy and a council’s decrees can be corrected. I have already pointed out that the 2nd session of the 4th Council of Constantinople (8th Council in the Eastern Church), held 879-880, was, at first,approved by the reigning pope, P. John VIII. However, finally by the tenth century, a review of its condemnations led to the rejection of the 8th Council, or 4th Constantinople Session 2. For over 200 years, a Council was approved: til its errors…

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Steve Phoenix, we can’t seem to get out from under your unending aspersions upon the Mass. How sad.

            Well at least today 9/16/15 at 5:24 PM you finally admit, “Now, technically, yes, the Pope has absolute authority over the Liturgy”.

            That should be enough to prove my point, & that of all those many of us who defend the liturgy. But even if we were to grant you the absurd notion that the Popes Paul and John were deceived, we would also have to believe that when Benedict approved the most revisions to the Mass – which we have all had to endure – that he was not himself implicitly re-promulgating what is in essence the NO mass as though it were his own, even though all your “historical research” was well known to him.

          • Steve Phoenix, where are you getting your information on the 8th ecumenical council?

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            In my poorly constructed run on sentence with which I ended my post last night at 11:05, I point out that. Steve Phoenix finally admits that the Pope has, in his own words, “absolute authority over the Liturgy”.

            He seems to suggest that Popes John and Paul were deceived and that somehow makes the liturgy they promulgated illegitimate, without so much as an ounce of evidence as to why this eviscerates his prior claim that the Pope has absolute authority over the Liturgy.

            And perhaps most importantly – if there was deception that Steve and his ilk have uncovered in the historical record in the 50 years since the council – don’t you think Benedict would have been aware of that deception? Instead of repudiating the Norvus Ordo, he…

        • Steve, what you’re saying explains so much what is going on today, but I think most here that defend this new Mass just want their Soylent Green fix, and so what if it’s made of human corpses? They don’t want to question or put themselves out with something that might entail real sacrifice and perhaps lead to being unpopular or thought to be different or weird. I suspect it’s not religious commitment to the modern Mass so much as its a fear to step out of their comfort zone.

          • …many want their fix, I’ve no doubt, but many too are misled by half truths and then ginned up on the fantasy of loyalty being equated to aiding in the cover up. It’s abuse of the faithful all around. Sad really.

            But the October Synods are rather forcing the devil to shed his business suit and appear with horns and tail for all to see. Like an exorcism that demands the Evil One to manifest and give his name. I just pray there is an exorcist at hand who will have the wherewithal to exorcise the Smoke of Satan out of the Church instead of leaving Her to suffer even greater ignominies.

            But then the Church must follow Her Spouse. God bless!

          • Dana, it is the same Mass. It is the sacrifice of Calvary re-presented.

          • Both Jeff Cavins and Alex Jones ended up converting to the Catholic Faith because when they were evangelical pastors they tried to “fabricate” a worship service based on what was in the Holy Scriptures and what they researched about the early Christian worship services. It ended up being just like the Mass.

          • Dana, if you have never heard Scott Hahn’s experience at his first Mass, there is a small part of it on youtube. He was a fierce anti-Catholic Protestant who was a Scripture expert and had been studying the book of Revelation for years trying to understand it. When he attended Mass, he immediately recognized Christ in the Blessed Sacrament because the Mass corresponded so well to what he had studied of the heavenly worship described in Scripture.

      • Pope St. Pius V says:

        We resolved accordingly to delegate this task [the re-editing of the Missal] to a select committee of scholars; and they, having at every stage of their work and with the utmost care collated the ancient codices in Our Vatican Library and reliable (original or amended) codices from elsewhere, and having also consulted the writing of ancient and approved authors who have bequeathed to us records relating to the said sacred rites, thus restored the Missal itself to the pristine form and rite of the holy Fathers. When this production had been subjected to close scrutiny and further amended We, after mature consideration, ordered that the final result be forthwith printed and published in Rome,

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          Exactly: S. Pius V did not fabricate a new mass, but preserved the existing Mass, just as GIRM 2014, #7 attests. It is the Novus Ordo of Bugnini that claims to be from the earliest Church “masses.”

          Now one of these two is false: because they can’t both be the same thing in the same way at the same time. Who do you believe: S Pius V, or Bugnini and Weakland? And I’m glad St. Pius v says so.

          • I believe Pope PauL VI who said :Since that time [1560] there has grown and spread among the Christian people the liturgical renewal which, according to Pius XII, Our predecessor of venerable memory, seems to show the signs of God’s providence in the present time, a salvific action of the Holy Spirit in His Church. This renewal has also shown clearly that the formulas of the Roman Missal ought to be revised and enriched. The beginning of this renewal was the work of Our predecessor, this same Pius XII, in the restoration of the Paschal Vigil and of the Holy Week Rite, which formed the first stage of updating the Roman Missal for the present-day mentality. cont

          • After the Council of Trent, the study “of ancient manuscripts of the Vatican library and of others gathered elsewhere,” as Our predecessor, St. Pius V, indicates in the Apostolic Constitution Quo primum, has greatly helped for the revision of the Roman Missal. Since then, however, more ancient liturgical sources have been discovered and published and at the same time liturgical formulas of the Oriental Church have become better known. Many wish that the riches, both doctrinal and spiritual, might not be hidden in the darkness of the libraries, but on the contrary might be brought into the light to illumine and nourish the spirits and souls of Christians.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            There were 400 years of scholarship between Trent and Vatican II. Archeology. Modern image analysis. Reexamination of many of the same texts looked at at Trent, but with the ability to bring new ideas to a very old question. You don’t think that new archeological findings and academic discoveries, the same kind that Pius’ committee used but those additional ones in the intervening years, should be brought to bear on the subject?

          • The question is who do you believe Pope St. Pius V or Blessed Pope Paul VI? The answer is both.
            Although I truly admire your collection of Vatican II books and thank you for what you have shared from them.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            Someone is posting without attribution excerpts from the Apostolic Constitution “Missale Romanum” (3 Apr 1969), attempting to buttress the claim that the Consilium and Abp. Bugnini, who likely wrote the majority (if not all) of the text of Missale Romanum will make the same claims Bugnini made, about mysterious research into “ancient sources” (as though this study was superior to Trent’s study. Yet Trent’s work was prior to the destruction of so many ancient libraries in the Reformation, the French Revolution, and two World Wars).

            However, since Bugnini and the Consilium always made claims to “ancient liturgies” they had uncovered, and yet destroyed or concealed the records of their supposed research, you cannot exempt…

          • Steve Phoenix, all of this is so irrelevant. Just pray the Mass. It is the best prayer on earth. It is Heaven on earth.

          • Then why does Our Lord tell us to be vigilant? As the mass is the greatest thing this side of Heaven then we should guard it and protect its integrity like the Pearl of Great Price.

            It would seem that you do not take Our Lord’s admonishments very seriously.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          “Now therefore, in order that all everywhere may adopt and observe what has been delivered to them
          by the Holy Roman Church [all must use my New Mass]… saving only those in which the practice of saying Mass differently was granted over
          200 years ago simultaneously with the Apostolic See’s institution and confirmation of the Church,
          and those in which there has prevailed a similar custom followed continuously for a period of not
          less than 200 years; in which cases We in no wise rescind their prerogatives or customs aforesaid”

          • ….and what was delivered by the Church is the TLM, not a banal fabrication. Much like the banal fabrication that those embracing and living in situations which opposite of Church teaching are somehow fellow Catholics.

            The spin cycle is nearly over, YFC. And the dirty laundry will be clean.

    • I hate to think what would have happened to my soul if I saw this kind of confusion when I was converting. I probably would have ended up Baptist.

      • Heh, it’s much worse with the Baptists…they’re constantly splitting into new churches. Frankly, it’s an outgrowth of human beings having Free Will. I’ve met Dr Hahn and receive his mailings from the St Paul Center. He’s good clear through, and yes, I’ve read Rome Sweet Home where he discusses his first Mass and I just gave it to an Assembly of God cousin and I have many of his books and CDs. He has an amazing Christian foundation and reads constantly….frankly it’s what he is bringing to the NO Mass that he gains such graces. Jesus is the Word. We receive the Word at Mass. Please ponder this yet again.

      • Anonymous “hates to think what would have happened to his/her soul” because of these posts: and on top of it all—Anonymous must hate being forced, absolutely forced, I say, to read them!!

  23. Steve Phoenix says:

    “DId not Saint Francis, a homeless itinerate evangelist, inhabit San Damiano while he rebuilt it?”
    ” Twist, and twist, and twist the truth: Only fool yourself, forsooth.” –Old English proverb

    Now, to justify the destruction of a sacred place, using transients, with their varied and significant psychological and addiction problems, as mere pawns in the further secularization of what is left of the Church, S. Francis (who by the way was attending the same essentially unchanged Traditional Latin Mass, since this was during the pontificate of Pope Innocent III) has to be made into the same type of transient.

    Now some will believe that. Readily. And all the time, other means are available for housing the transients in…

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