Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 12:09 AM By charlio
I’m sorry if a group of people think they are providing some otherwise unobtainable light in my life by serenading me especially when I’m trying to commune emotionally & mentally with my Lord in thanksgiving for His infinite gift of Himself to me. Would they please just resist the urge to turn the Gloria into a call & response? There is no chorus in the Gloria, it’s one straight prayer from beginning to end. Canon 846 states: “The liturgical books, approved by the competent authority, are to be faithfully followed in the celebration of the sacraments. Accordingly, no one may on a personal initiative add to or omit or alter anything in those books.” Presumably this applies to the choir. Would they please just leave me alone?
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 2:40 AM By daryl
Forgive them, for they do not know what they do.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 2:49 AM By BETH
I agree with charilio. Most of today’s liturgial music/tune is not inspiring, and some still seems to violate Canon 846. These violations constitute disruption and noise. We don’t have much time to spend in Church with our Lord. “It was forgotten that the Council (Vatican II) also included silence under auctuosa participatio, for silence facilitates a really deep, personal participation, allowing us to listen inwardly to the Lord’s word. Many liturgies now lack all trace of this silence.” – Cardinal Ratzinger, pg 127 under Liturgy in the ‘Ratzinger Report’.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 3:28 AM By Joe
The root of the problem with secular hymns being sung in the church lies flatly with the organist/music director and its pastor. Many of these people either have no background in liturgical music, or they are pianists who have never had any organ instruction. Their playing of the instrument is so bad, and their selection of hymns is so outrageous that both of these factotrs actually become a distraction rather than an inspiration. I changed churches when I no longer could stand the “torture” of one church’s musician. This is not only an issue of secular music being performed in church, but also of an incompetent organist who executes the hymns. Dioceses throughout the country need to have standards in place regarding the instruction of liturgical music, and conduct auditions for organists when an opening for this position arises in one of their churches. Pastors, too, must be selective in whom they choose to be leaders in this endeavor, And ditto for the cantors, as well.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 4:22 AM By Tom
@charlio — I agree with your disdain for the imposition of music into the mass. Thankfully, our parish has several masses on Sunday. The earliest mass is quiet and prayerful without music. I love being able to pray silently to my Lord and listening to the words of the Priest. Sadly, for me — whenever a choir or musical responsory is employed it becomes less sacred and more profane.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 4:44 AM By CGS
We get the “call and response” version of the sung Gloria at our parish as well. I sing along in order to participate, but also endure it as a penance! Our cantor also likes to substitute other titles of Christ at the Agnus Dei (still, despite the revision). Instead of “Lamb of God”, we get “Our Risen Lord” or “Prince of Peace” or whatever she decides! I hope Bishop Olmsted’s advice is heard far and wide by cantors and liturgical planners.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 4:56 AM By Gabriel Espinosa
Had to put up with “Morning Has Broken” yesterday. Frustrating because this trash is at the request of the pastor.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 5:42 AM By St. Christopher
The new N.O. Mass translation — as much a benefit as it is — completely fails to change the direction of liberal “liturgists” or “ministers of music” in what they envision for the Mass. In fact, the “new language” has just given them another chance to foul the Mass with yet more poor profane music. For some reason, for example, the Credo is now accompanied by a sour warbling “song” that completely detracts from the now more powerful prayer. And, these same lay “ministers” continue to inflict the Mass with “Rock of Ages” and other Protestant or “songs from workers in the field” (like “Soon and Very Soon”). And, of course, we now have, at least in one Church in the Diocese of Richmond (VA), the Sidney Poitier version of “Amen” sung before the Lord’s Prayer. This is why a complete return to Tradition is necessary along with the outright elimination of such disrespectful trash. Short of this, the Vatican must be much more closely involved with implementation details of the way things go in America. Too bad Cardinal Dolan was so lauded in Rome, he is not much of a leader regarding the liturgy or adherence to the unity of the Church.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 5:52 AM By Ted
I’m with you, charlio. The inclusion of music and song into the liturgy shouldn’t supplant all time for private, silent prayer. There should be a place for both. We need to drop the hand-holding at the Lord’s prayer along with using priestly hand gestures – clearly inappropriate. The new Mass translation is a good start, but now we need to do away with the clutter that has crept in and also with most of our lay liturgical “experts” who think they’re in charge.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 6:58 AM By JOSEPH CARLYLE
The Bishop has made some well intended comments and I applaude him for that.Sacred Scripture tells us that ” EAR HAS NOT HEARD,what GOD has ready for those who love Him” This being so,we have yet to ear the BEST Music that GOD HIMSELF listens to continually.While we are here we will have to believe that HE is happy when any of HIS creatures sing ti HIM with their heart ,praising HIS NAME. What song did OUR LORD lead the apostles in when HE led them in a song on the Mount of Olives on Holy Thursday? It had to be special & most likely they knew the words & melody & it was singable.WOW !How wonderful it would be if that happened at mass today.We all know the answer to that one.RARELY……Music must bring us closer to OUR LORD,then it is great whether it is approved by a committee or not ,remeber the scribes & pharasees.MY SOUL PROCLAIMS THE GREATNESS OF THE LORD!
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 7:08 AM By MacDonald
From the GIRM: “53. The Gloria is a very ancient and venerable hymn in which the Church, gathered together in the Holy Spirit, glorifies and entreats God the Father and the Lamb…The Gloria is intoned by the priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or by the people alternately with the choir, or by the choir alone. If not sung, it is to be recited either by all together or by two parts of the congregation responding one to the other.”
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 7:09 AM By Phil Maff
Ditto Charlio. Recently, our pastor told our music director the same thing. So, no more refrain in the Gloria. We still have a ways to go, but it’s a good start.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 7:15 AM By Catholic Joe
It’s sad when the bishop needs to provide remediation of the obvious.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 7:30 AM By Catherine
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 7:51 AM By Life Lady
For those who have sung or heard our own sacred chant, there is no question of the assimilating power of it. It has served the Church for centuries. Those who would sind it must be properly schooled in the nuances, and those who teach it must be properly trained in how to teach it, and they must love it in order to be able to pass on the beauty of that music as well. I pray that everyone who loves the Church and is faithful to Her will come to love Her music as well, and then to endeaver to sing Her praises with it.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 8:11 AM By JMJ
What is the difference in the “music” of the Latin-rite Mass that we have had for the past 450 years or so on Sunday mornings and the “music” of a funeral Mass? None, except that at the Funeral there is a coffin for the deceased and on Sundays, the deceased are sitting up in the pews. Never did like that On Eagles Wings, but, I think that it is so sad when we have a song or hymn praising God and the music just drags on and on and everybody sounds as though they are on their last breath. We should be singing with real JOY and our arms extended to God; after all, if these same Catholics can go to a ball game or whatever and shout and jump for their idols, then they should show some sort of life towards their maker. When will we stop being entertained during Communion with music. It is bad enough for the people to be singing or humming along with the “band”, but, when those standing there with Jesus in their hands are joining in, including the Priest, it is horrible. There should be complete silence in the Church until the final Blessing as we should be keeping focus on the great Miracle of the Presence of Jesus coming down from Heaven to be with and in us. +JMJ+
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 8:18 AM By charles
The musical thread that takes place in our parish has replaced silence, meditation, examination, it has become the overture which suggests to the congregation that noise is quite acceptable, go ahead and chatter away sooner or later the priest will show up and begin his role. The organ at least in a few parishes has become the center on which the rest of the Sunday revolves around. We do have a different experience on Sunday evening Mass where guitars take the place of the organ but disturb just as well.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 8:30 AM By Charles in CenCA
charlio, You and I are generally on the same page about many topics. And I am certainly on the same page as Bp. Olmstead. All that aside, one cannot assert certain positions as fact when, according to canonic legislation, one’s own opinion is contradicted. OEWings and tens of thousands of songs and hymns brought into the Mass (accreted) way before VII and long since after received a sort of “grandfather clause” approbation in the post VII GIRM’s (virtually in all vernacular translations with the infamous Option Four, the “alius cantus aptus. (another suitable chant.”) Even if one argues the literal notion of “chant” versus “hymn or song,” which has been done for decades (most effectively by the late Prof. Dobszay) you won’t find a bishop who has, to my knowledge, made a juridical pronouncement that option four excludes such hymns and songs. It’s a very sad reality, as such a judgment is likely premised upon “the horse is already out of the barn.” And in my experience, the Faithful not only need, but WANT to be taught and led towards a fuller, more authentic practice of their RCC worship. We’re getting there steadily; But more bishops, pastors, musicians need to keep the drumbeat going for the “Ah hah” moment to reach max capacity. As for the refrain-based Gloria, that also is not expressly forbidden in the actual documentation. It is as you say a through composed hymn (not prayer) and its coherency thus should be respected as such. Because of the implementation of the 3rd ed. Rom.Missal, we have seen an upsurge of through sung Glory’s, and of course, an equal interest in extant and new chant settings. But, there are so many contingencies from parish to parish, and as I said, episcopal leadership varies if it is apparent at all. Some would claim that a refrain Gloria is technically in the same category as a polyphonic Gloria, wherein from Palestrina to Puccini words are repeated constantly. No agreement there, either. But this musician feels your pain!
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 8:54 AM By Bud
I love music but some of these “music ministers” know absolutely nothing about congregational and true liturgical and inspiring singing. Very often, only the leader’s voice is heard among the croaking sounds of the congregation trying to sing something so unsuitable for the human untrained voice. I bet that’s why chant became the preferred and beautiful mode that it is today. Only in the royal baroque cathedrals did the abuse reach the proportions of a full symphony and operatic production so the royals could walk properly down the aisle! Guess why so many of us love the Eastern Rite music!
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 8:55 AM By des
I attend a parish in North SD County, where “On Eagles Wings” would be :Palistrina by comparison. Forbes, in her biography of Pope Pius X, says that he was dealing with this problem way back in the 1900’s, so it’s not new by any means. Kudos to Bishop Olmstead for his article. .
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 9:31 AM By William
At our place we use the new Dan Schutte setting for Mass and it’s utter junk. Can any of yous out in California fill us in on the whereabouts and lifestyle of Schutte? He’s the darling of the throw-away-missalette crowd and is raking in big bucks from un-suspecting Catholics..
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 9:40 AM By AzulCondor
Do the other Bishops in USCCB ever listen to you, your Excellency? Or perhaps read your article? I’m just curious because in The Our Lady of Victories in Jersey City Protestant songs are a regular thing every Sunday at 12:00 NN mass. And this has been going on for the past8 years now. The parish priest’s favorite choir, a certain evangelical charismatic group named The Lord’s Flock belts out protestant hymns during the whole mass and nobody complains. The Bishop concerned seems at peace with it.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 10:27 AM By Abeca Christian
Interesting Article. This is the music that I grew up in, hearing during mass. The music is not the problem here, it is those in charge who only sing protestant like music and neglect the beautiful Catholic hymns that go well with the Mass. Or their priests and bishops have not taught them well. They permitted all this things. How is our youth going to now the difference if we don’t have a balance and expose them to true Catholicism. I’m glad Bishop Olmstead is discussing this, I hope it becomes a topic of conversation amongst all the bishops so that they can better lead their flock in what is more proper for Mass. Our generation today and even mine growing up, we didn’t know better, this is what the church has shown us to be the norm, can you imagine I grew up singing Amazing grace, which is a beautiful song, during Mass thinking it was a Catholic hymn, when I was told that it was written by a protestant, I grew up wondering why we borrowed their music because we didn’t have anything as good. Sad. I’m grateful that God opened my eye’s and helped me discover more beauty in our Catholic faith that came from it’s originality!
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 10:46 AM By MacDonald
How bizarre — Bishop Olsted’s column is all about the VALUE of good solid liturgical music, and yet so many people are responding as if he wanted to BAN all music from Holy Mass. True liturgical music is imporant, not a “distraction” or an “annoyance” to private prayer. If the priest is doing his job right, there will be good, solid liturgical music, AND good times for sacred silence. It’s not one or the other.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 10:50 AM By MacDonald
The Church’s proclamation on The Importance of Singing, in the GIRM: “39. The Christian faithful who gather together as one to await the Lord’s coming are instructed by the Apostle Paul to sing together psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs (cf. Col 3:16). Singing is the sign of the heart’s joy (cf. Acts 2:46). Thus Saint Augustine says rightly, “Singing is for one who loves.” 48 There is also the ancient proverb: “One who sings well prays twice.”
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 10:57 AM By AA
Bp Olmsted Rocks! Like Peter – not like rock n toll mass
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 11:01 AM By Cathy
I for one am very tired of the dirge that most choirs sing. Where does it state that we have to drag every note to make it sacred. That is ridiculous! David sang he did not play an organ…St Francis said” Singing is praying twice”. Pray with joy! This is the day the Lord has made REJOICE and be glad in it…
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 11:31 AM By Annie
Great quote, Beth! One of my pet peeves, too, that silence has been replaced by constant noise. The exception is at the EF Mass, where at least if the choir sings after Communion, it is holy music that lifts one’s soul to God.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 11:34 AM By Annie
One solution would be to ban Oregon Catholic Press throw-away missalettes with “music.” There are some decent traditional hymns in it, but the sung music to the Masses-most are not suitable. Don’t know what training a “music minister” has to have, perhaps just “show up and volunteer?” Maybe play the guitar? In the 1950’s Msgr. Cremins in Southern California gave music workshops to train us in liturgical music, how to sing chants, how to accompany on organ, etc. etc. A nearby parish had a “music retreat” before the 3rd Edition of the Roman Missal was debuted. One attendee said there were NO CHANGES in the music? Huh? And they are using the “Jesus, lamb of God…” from OCP. They have a beautiful-sounding organ, but use the piano most of the time-another thing to be banned. The bishops simply MUST address this travesty in many parts of our country, and using guidelines from Rome, Music Sacra, and other reliable sources, just FORBID all the junky music. Something to pray for…daily.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 12:27 PM By Father Karl
If he who sings, prayers twice, then with all the trash that is put into hymnals and misseletts, we must no longer be praying.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 1:02 PM By JLS
Cathy, when King David sang with joy, it was not a temple liturgy, but a parade in the street.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 1:05 PM By JLS
Good to read how a bishop is trying to motivate people to move forward from the day care liturgy level.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 1:06 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
I recently received a call from an Organist who was actually Black Balled by the Archdiocese of Los Angels’ favorite Organist because the person who called me was too traditional. He would probably be very welcome in Phoenix but not Tucson! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 1:27 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Father Karl, You probably just hit the nail on the proverbial head! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 1:56 PM By Clinton
And don’t you just love every recessional song must be accompanied by clapping? Sometimes, it feels like I’m at a tent revival rather than at a Catholic parish. I pray that as time passes, we will return to Gregorian chant or either authentic and traditional Catholic hymns.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 2:50 PM By KTS
I’m a post-Vatican II, cradle Catholic who spent childhood years in a country church in the Caribbean. There was no organ or piano; we made do with what little talents and gifts the parishioners had to offer: their untrained voices with guitars. This parish didn’t have the resources to ‘train’ people to play the organ, much less buy one. Years later in Canada, I joined one of my parish’s choirs after high school because I love to sing and I wanted to serve. I’m also part of the liturgical music planning committee, and have participated in various workshops on the matter. (How faithful to Canon Law those facilitators’ instructions were, I do not know, as Canon Law is seldom a topic for discussion in these workshops, and I don’t think many people even think to ask.) Yes, for most choirs, it probably is a ‘show up and volunteer’ situation. I can’t speak for everyone, but I think many who do volunteer do so in a sincere spirit of service to the Church. If tomorrow my local bishop told us to abandon all ‘secular’ or ‘modern’ hymnals in favour of more traditional forms that have been mentioned, my immediate response would be ‘Yes, Your Grace’, out of obedience. Others would be furious and balk and complain and fight. Maybe with time, instruction, good leadership and so on, all parishes of the world will be able to have great organists, vocalists and liturgical directors capable of achieving what so many here seem to cry out for in their own parishes. Yes, all aspects of the Mass should relate to the sacredness of the Mysteries being celebrated. But for now, parishes are simply making do with the resources they have and the talents and gifts of the people – people who are honestly trying their best, and in some cases, don’t know any better. Pax.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 2:59 PM By Pax vobiscum
CGS – I thought the Agnus Dei, using Names for Christ other than Lamb of God, was illicit. So it surprised me when I learned that, as long as Agnus Dei is used first and last, other valid Names of Christ may be used in between, as if in a Litany.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 3:32 PM By Laurette Elsberry
“Holy, holy, holy, all the saints adore Thee, casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea”. I cannot comprehend why something this incredibly dumb could be considered sacred music. All you agree say AMEN!
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 4:03 PM By Charles CenCA
@Pvobiscum I think that with the revisions and instructions (translation as well) of the English GIRM along with MR3 that troping the Agnus Dei is no longer allowed by the USCCB. Inasmuch as such decisions are arrived in plenum sessions of their annual conventions, I believe that makes it binding upon all US bishops to instruct all in this matter, unlike the document Sing to the Lord, which of itself carries no specific authority of its own. If the Agnus Dei must be repeated more than thrice, then one repeats the first petition, “miserere nobis” until the end of the fraction when “dona nobis…” would conclude it. Were this the least of our musical problems….. I would like to take the opportunity of this post to let readers know there are a number of parishes and cathedrals in CA wherein the faithful can experience musical leadership of a fitting caliber to the tradition and the legislation. Those locales would be found in places like Sacramento, San Francisco (St. Mary’s Cathedral/St. Francis Basilica), Oakland Cathedral, Newark, the parish cluster in Palo Alto, San Juan Bautista Mission, Kingsburg, Visalia, California City, specific parishes in the LA/San Diego area (FSSP parishes in particular.) and elsewhere throughout the state.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 4:34 PM By WOODY GUIDRY
FORGIVE THEM FOR THEM KNOW NOT WHAT THEY SING.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 4:47 PM By MacDonald
@ KTS — your post was terrific. Like you, I admire the parishioners who are brave and generous enough to volunteer, but are also humble enough to follow what the Church teaches. If the bishops would help us get more truly sacred, liturgical music (e.g., chant), I would be thrilled. I attended a Basque wedding recently where the priests and people knew the hymns by heart and sang them in the most beautiful, powerful way — all a cappella. Unforgettable!
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 5:11 PM By CGS
Thank you, Pax vobiscum, for enlightening me. They do sing it just as you said, with “Lamb of God” first and last. I’m glad to know this now. Mine was a case of UNrighteous indignation.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 5:52 PM By JLS
Just for the record, even though I prefer acapella done well, I once spent two years in a Gospel choir, and also in a Carribean choir. These things can be great blessings for people. I since have preferred the Traditional Mass because I no longer need the “horizontal” fellowship during Mass, and prefer the “vertical”. There is a demarkation between exterior sound and interior sound … When it is too noisy outside, one cannot hear anything inside. When it is too noisy inside, then one may need a lot of external music. I believe it is good to have parishes with all sorts of music … but not at the expense of forbidding tradtional liturgical sounds and words.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 6:32 PM By Cody in Tucson
Kenneth – Now, now, now, don’t you pick on my favorite Bishop. Remember, he’s ORTHODOX!
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 7:37 PM By JLS
Laurette, the “glassy sea” image is from the Book of the Apocalypse. The strange part is the “casting down of golden crowns”, which sounds bogus.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 8:00 PM By Bob One
For those of you who have not caught up with the changes in the Mass (50 years now) the Mass is a time for communal worship and praise. If you prefer praying in quiet solitude stay home. The Mass is for community celebration.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 8:24 PM By Cheryl
It is true that liturgists are more dangerous than terrorists. In a time when trivial preferences can divide and destroy others’ work as well as entire communities we need to be aware and flexible or we ourselves will separate ourselves because of others’ needs for power even in the most minor details.
Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 10:32 PM By Abeca Christian
WOODY GUIDRY good one!
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:00 AM By Philip
I am an organist of nearly 40 years’ experience. This year I resign as I am finally defeated by clergy who choose poor words, badly set, for the proper and ordinary of the Mass. I am tired of trying to make modern choruses acceptable and singable. I am tired of the clergy terror of silence during a service. I am tired of churches which don’t value their expensive pipe organs to the point that they leave them to collapse. I am tired of fighting to get better music included, to have it discarded a week later. I will attend my local cathedral where they offer the best in music and liturgy to refresh the spirit.
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:16 AM By ANDY
GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) is available on the USCCB web site, and is for sale in book form from the USCCB. From Vatican II – “Regulation of the sacred liturgy depends soloely on the authority of the Church, that is, on the Apostolic See and, as laws may determine, on the bishop. . . .Therefore no other person, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority” (Sacrosanctum consilium, no. 22, 1 and 3). Report liturgical abuses by Priests and by the Laity to your Pastor. If this does not work, report it to your Diocese Bishop along with date, time, and location and which section of GIRM that is being violated. If that does not work, report it to the US Papal Nuncio and the Vatican.
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:29 AM By Angelo
The Church never done away with the distinction between High Mass and Low Mass. I wish Priests would consider going back to that usage. The way music is at Mass today, Low Mass would be heaven on earth. For those who don’t know, a High Mass is sung and a Low Mass is not. An example of a Low Mass today, is like most of our daily Mass’s during the weekdays, the whole Mass is said including a sermon, without any music.
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 6:17 AM By St. Christopher
“Bob One”: The Council of Trent confirmed that the Mass is an “unbloody sacrifice,” the very re-enactment of Calvary. It is not a communal meal or happy time — a tragic understanding since Vatican II. The sacraments of the Church, as well, are not “communal” in their nature (except for marriage, in a sense). Catholic community is highly important, however, but does not define an individual’s relationship with Christ — which is uniquely personal — and compliance with the requirements of the Faith. Telling someone to stay home because they do not like hand holding at the Our Father, or the awful music and constant noise of the N.O., is wrong. We come to Mass to celebrate the sacrifice of Christ; our community is important but it does not impart salvation, which is something that God offers, the Church enables, and individuals accept.
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 6:31 AM By JudeThom
So how do you stop this my friends? The average Catholic parish seems keyed into this. it is almost as if we Traditionalists are fighting a losing battle. Nobody is listening. Oh, perhaps a few people are, but overall the abuses continue, even in some of the nation’s cathedrals.The Novus Ordo Mass is generally a mess. Novus Ordo Catholics need to take a lesson from the Orthodox, who involve the people but who do NOT sacrifice a magnificent Liturgy. To date the Catholic Church has not been able to do this. I never attend the Novus Ordo because it is filled with so many glaring, awful things.
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 6:45 AM By Church Lady
I recently had to endure, during the Sacrament of Communion at a Confirmation Mass, the instrumental version of the song ‘Only Time’ by Enya. When I emailed the Pastor, music director and religious ed people about why it was allowed at Mass at all – I heard nothing back from them directly – but Father had a ‘homily’ on being judgmental the following day – I think, perhaps, aimed at me for presuming to question his authority – when my email to him was only to inform him of the lyrics to that song – as he surely wasn’t aware due to his comment during the Mass thanking the Choir for their solemn and sacred music choices – even if the Bishop couldn’t be at our Mass this year. This isn’t the 1st time our PAID music director (small town) has chosen songs that are not Catholic in nature – but I think the 1st time that a song that pays homage to a false god was used in our Church.
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 6:57 AM By MacDonald
From the CATECHISM: “1070 In the New Testament the word “liturgy” refers not only to the celebration of divine worship but also to the proclamation of the Gospel and to active charity. In all of these situations it is a question of the service of God and neighbor. In a liturgical celebration the Church is servant in the image of her Lord, the one “leitourgos”; she shares in Christ’s priesthood (worship), which is both prophetic (proclamation) and kingly (service of charity).” If the Church refers to Christ as leitourgous, I would not be too quick to vilify this term…
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:56 AM By JLS
The bottom line is that each soul is invited by God to attend Mass. So, who would believe that God invites us to these de facto adulerous/idolatrous liturgies? They are adulterous because they play the field even though they should be faithful to the Bridegroom, and they are idolatrous because they dilute their Object of worship with false divinity.
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 3:37 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Cody in Tucson, 6:32 PM, It’s a good thing that I have come to know you by your writings, otherwise I would be giving you some enlightening words about “orthodox”! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher
Posted Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:58 PM By JLS
Church Lady, your post brought back the memory of some of the homilies I used to hear well before I ran into the Latin Traditional Mass. The priests would kind of talk in the way you describe. Just realize that there is a lot of difference in sermons and/or homilies between the two liturgical forms. Those old OF homilies were not really mundane but don’t seem to have had the spark to them that I find in the EF sermons. Am I being subjective or objective here, I don’t know … but my hunch is there is a vastly more profound spirituality to the EF over the OF.
Posted Thursday, February 23, 2012 5:37 AM By Canisius
@JLS and Church Lady, by your comments I realize how lucky I am to have no fewer than 6 Parishes that offer the TLM and 2 SSPX chapels all within 1 hour of where I live. I dont think I could endure and nonsense that plagues the OF Mass.
Posted Thursday, February 23, 2012 2:58 PM By Lisa
We, too, suffer every single Mass though inadequate, inane songs. They haven’t stopped with playing a song through Communion and then another song after Communion. It’s played by piano and sung by inferior singers. And then on top of it all, they have insisted on shoving themselves into the right of the altar (facing the congregation) … and refuse to use the choir loft or the organ! And the priest DOES NOTHING. He’s “just one man” and he leaves it up to everyone else to do everything, even hand out the Eucharist…There’s so much more and we are completely trapped in this parish.
Posted Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:33 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
JLS, Have you ever stopped to think that just maybe the EF sermons are better because of the “Prayers at the Foot of the Altar”! The prayers that the Novus Ordo has done away with. Canisius, you sure are blessed. Who is your Bishop? God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher
Posted Friday, February 24, 2012 12:50 AM By Angelo
JLS, Your post of February 21, 2012 10:56 AM. Did the Holy Ghost inspire you, or did the Holy Father tell you that? Never have I heard a more perfect explanation as to why all these liturgical abuses are downright wrong. “adulterous/ idolotrous liturgies” I dare anyone attempt try to refute what you have posted. This is a new weapon against error for me, and I certainly will be using it. WOW!!! Makes sense to the point of perfection!
Posted Friday, February 24, 2012 1:00 AM By MAC
Since the Nov 2011 changes, I prefer the OF Mass. I think in English and prefer to pray in a language that I easily understand. The new Daily Roman Missal by the Midwest Theological Forum and sold through most Catholic catalogues is great. (We don’t have the Laity abuses at our Parish because they get reported pronto.)
Posted Friday, February 24, 2012 7:32 AM By JLS
Intriguing perspective, Kenneth!!! And something worthy of reflection!!! And, no, I never stopped to think of this. And, yes, sometimes I do not stop to think … maybe even a good suggestion for a Lenten meditation.
Posted Friday, February 24, 2012 8:12 AM By Canisius
Mr. Fisher, my prelate is Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who I do like though ever since I saw him appaulding the gay contigent at St. Francis Xavier Parish rededication Mass last year and his too little too late reaction to the “gay marriage” law, I found him to be somewhat of a quisling before the modernist forces. I how pray for a Cardinal Spellman
Posted Friday, February 24, 2012 8:19 PM By k
Canisius, Cardinal Dolan got sandbagged with that gay contingent thing. You can see on the video how disturbed he is until they say they help LGBT Catholics return to the sacraments then he relaxes.
Posted Friday, February 24, 2012 9:31 PM By JLS
At some point some people begin to understand language in all its forms, and meld (or call it join) with prayer in all its universal founts (yes, the correct spelling is font, but doubtless some readers would think the word referred to type style, aka type type). I believe that this can only be through the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
Posted Friday, February 24, 2012 10:09 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Canisius, 8:12 AM, Cardinal Dolan is one of the better bishops, pray that he become even better! I have been told how he was sandbagged! Is “Canisius” your first or last name? Are you Greek? God bless, yours in Theri Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher
Posted Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:55 AM By Canisius
@k thank you I have noted it. Mr. Fisher, Dolan is a good Bishop no doubt, however I wish he would be more confrontational with the Church’s enemies (ie obama, nytimes) and start excommunicating professional cathlics like Cuomo. Canisius, is one of my favorite saints, thats why I use it. He nearly single handidly won back entire regions of Europe to the True Faith, after the protestant revolt
Posted Monday, February 27, 2012 6:17 PM By Pax vobiscum
Charles CenCA- You mentioned, “If the Agnus Dei must be repeated more than thrice, then one repeats the first petition, “miserere nobis” until the end of the fraction when “dona nobis…” would conclude it.” Perhaps I’m not understanding you, or perhaps I wasn’t clear. I was saying that I had learned that the Name of Christ, “Lamb of God,” could be substituted for other Names of Christ, (such as Prince of Peace) for all but the first and last. I did not intend to comment on “have mercy on us,” and, “dona nobis pacem.” Thank you for your info, though, and God bless you!