The following comes from a transcript of Oct. 22 in the Planned Parenthood trial against David Daleiden, who shot undercover videos of abortionists. Dr. Nucatola referred to in the transcript was shown in a video talking about changing the abortion method to harvest fetal parts.
(Questioning is by Rhonda Trotter, Planned Parenthood attorney.)
Q. Now, Mr. Daleiden, you claim that you were attending conferences of abortion providers because you were trying to obtain evidence that they were committing crimes; is that accurate?
A. We were seeking to document evidence of — of violent crimes and criminal sale of — criminal trafficking in aborted fetuses and aborted fetal organs and tissues, that’s correct.
Q.And you would disagree with the notion that you were trying to create a propaganda project as a result of this work; correct?
A.In the way that people normally use the word “propaganda,” which normally people use that to imply that there is something false about what’s being said or something manipulative about what’s being said, yeah, I would disagree with that.
I think this was — well, I know this was an honest — this was an honest reporting project, to report true facts about your clients to the public.
Q. At the NAF 2014 conference in San Francisco, you taped all discussions, regardless of whether the subject of fetal tissue was part of the discussion?
A. We taped all of our interactions with the abortion providers who were attending a NAF meeting that was sponsored by a tissue procurement organization.
Q. That’s not responsive to my question. My question: You taped all discussions, regardless of whether in the particular discussion the subject of fetal tissue was discussed?
A.What I’m trying to tell you —
MIHET: Objection. Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled. If you can answer it in a “yes” or “no,” do that. If you can’t, then explain it.
THE WITNESS: Right.
I don’t think I can because what I’m trying to say is that in my judgment, all of the conversations and all of the interactions that we had at a meeting like that, like the NAF 2014 meeting, which was sponsored by an organization that harvests and sells aborted fetal tissue, all of the discussions at a meeting like that are potentially relevant because all of the attendees are participating in that market space.
Q. And then you say: “She bought it all hook line and sinker.” Do you see that?
A. Yeah, I see that.
Q. And the “she” that you are referring to is Dr. Nucatola. Correct?
A. That’s correct.
Q. And by saying “She bought it all hook line and sinker, you were referring to the fact that you were representing yourself as Robert Sarkis of BioMax, a new fetal tissue procurement company. Correct?
A. Not exactly. I was primarily referring to the undercover scenario that we were presented as regards the kind of business plan or business model that BioMax was proposing. Which was a standard tissue procurement organization business model, where a middleman company would send in technicians to inside — embed inside a Planned Parenthood clinic to do all the work of harvesting body parts, and then make a per-volume payment to the Planned Parenthood clinic, based on the number of specimens harvested. That’s what I was specifically referring to by what I felt that she bought all of, was this business model that runs directly contrary to the federal law in fetal tissue sales.
Q. Well, when you use the phrase “hook, line and sinker,” that is a phrase that you had used or heard before the time of sending this email. Correct?
A. That’s a cliché.
Q. And it is a cliché that is designed to communicate that the person who’s buying it hook, line and sinker has been duped in some way. Correct?
A. You know, I think that clichés — I think the definition of a cliché is that it’s a phrase that has sort of lost its meaning through over-use. So I was not using it for that specific of a meaning. I was simply using it to communicate that I felt that Dr. Nucatola, as the senior director of medical services at PPFA, had completely accepted the undercover scenario of the BioMax business model that we were proposing, which I think is a — is a business model that runs completely contrary to the federal law on fetal tissue transfers..