Christian churches ‘must be made’ to affirm homosexuality

New York Times journalist claims 2,000-year old doctrine is a choice
Journalist Frank Bruni, who is openly gay (New York Times)

Journalist Frank Bruni (New York Times)

The following comes from a April 7 LifeSite News article by Ben Johnson:

NEW YORK – A New York Times columnist and a corporate leader have agreed that Christian churches “must” be convinced, or coerced, to change their teachings on sexual morality and abandon an “ossified” doctrinal teaching that sex outside heterosexual marriage is immoral.

Frank Bruni wrote that traditional Christianity – whether among evangelicals, Catholics, or Orthodox – provides the greatest resistance to normalizing homosexuality in the United States in a recent column in the New York Times.

“Homosexuality and Christianity don’t have to be in conflict in any church anywhere,” Bruni insisted. “The continued view of gays, lesbians and bisexuals as sinners is a decision. It’s a choice. It prioritizes scattered passages of ancient texts over all that has been learned since — as if time had stood still, as if the advances of science and knowledge meant nothing.”

But even refraining from calling same-sex relations a sin – or, in the words of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, “intrinsically disordered” – is not enough for the modern LGBT movement.

“The LGBT militants are not asking to be left alone,” said former Reagan administration adviser Pat Buchanan, a co-founder of The American Conservative. “They are demanding that we accept the morality of homosexuality and same-sex marriages, and manifest that acceptance, under pain of law and sanctions, in our daily lives.”

Buchanan said during an interview with WND.com that orthodox Christian churches must have one response to demands that they alter their teachings to fit the modern zeitgeist: “The answer is no. If it comes to civil disobedience, so be it.”

Buchanan’s statement came as a number of prominent evangelical Christian leaders have called for open acts of nonviolent resistance if the Supreme Court forces states to accept homosexual “marriages” this summer.

Comments

  1. St. Christopher says

    Pat Buchanan is correct, there can never be accommodation of homosexual sexual behavior as “normal” or even “acceptable”. In fact, the Faith of the Church, and its Tradition, forbid this. Should any “Christian” institution embrace sodomy as positive, it would be anathema to all baptized and practicing people of Faith.

    The Bible is completely clear on the “unnaturalness” of same sex sexual functioning. Take a look at St. Paul, for example, in his letter to the Romans (1:26-27) (DRA), particularly verse 27: “And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.” Not much ambiguity here.

    In a way, Bruni’s observation is comforting. Catholics, Christians and observant Jews are all on notice of the demanding elements of their faiths regarding homosexuality. Sodomy is not acceptable in any way, shape, or form, to people of Faith. Read the Bible closely; it does not condemn the feeling that a homosexual might have for another of the same sex, it condemns actions against the nature of a man and of a woman. Look at part of verse 26: “For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature”.

    Only if Catholics (and others) simply say, “whatever” and give in to the unnatural can Bruni get his way.

    • St. Christopher,

      I have been reading the Bible, and found you are so right! Our society is completely out of whack and is trying to force us to accept things that simply are not tolerable to a faithful Catholic. Homosexuality is only the beginning of perversion.

      Timothy 2:11-12: “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.”

      Thus all the secular laws regarding the equality of women are corrupt. We need to purge our society of female professors, corporate trainers, female business executives, female police officers can only give orders and citations to women, while female politicians are a complete abomination. I suppose women can teach male schoolchildren, but must refuse jobs teaching high school students past the age of majority (18). Obviously, no obedient Catholic woman can serve in the military at any rank above buck private.

      Thus, ladies, if any of you here hold such authority, you must immediately resign from these jobs! God demands it. You are degrading society as much as homosexual marriage by continuing to defy God’s will now that you know better. Repent immediately. If you do not, you should not take communion. And head straight for confession to be absolved of your sin.

      If you see any woman attempt to exercise such authority over a man, you must repudiate them and inform them of their sin.

      • Anonymous says

        Yes!
        There are many Christians who believe in this.
        Although they teach secular subjects, the religion and preaching is done by men.

      • St. Christopher says

        Such a foolish comment, “JonJ”. And why is that? Two quick points (and there are so many others):

        1. Focus on Political: You focus on things that are strictly political, that involve Mankind. The prohibitions on homosexual sexual behavior are God-directed. You and your HomoFascist pals will never accept this, and you will never accept Christianity, either, or the Bible. So, why not leave? The Church is open to you and will assist in your salvation, but you cannot change what is unchangeable. Oh, you may have a political victory here and there, even big ones, but you will always be an anathema to holiness; and your immortal soul will always be at grave risk.

        2. Change of subject direction: No one was talking about the role of women, only the abomination of homosexual sexual behavior. You did not have any answer for that one, except to try to deflect the truth discussed, by disrespecting the Bible.

        • St Christopher,

          How can you say such things to me? I have come to complete agreement with your wisdom.

          Just like Catholics cannot reject the Bible’s truth with regard to homosexuality, we must also accept its teaching with respect to females exercising authority over males. Are we not to revere the whole work of the Bible and not select portions like the degenerate cafeteria catholics?

          Thus, Priests must now also refuse communion to female executives, politicians, professors, and other degenerate women who exercise corrupt authority over men lest they propagate scandal. There can be no choice, or any “modern” understanding that causes the Church to allow deviation from Biblical demands with respect to the proper ordering of society.

          • No one “takes” communion; one receives communion.

          • JonJ, in case you did not notice, in the Catholic Faith – the leaders in our Faith are MALE Priests, Bishops, Cardinals & the Pope.
            The rest of us assist them as needed.
            And this has worked well for 2000+ years.

            I love our Faith, and as a woman I feel no need to change this.

          • Yes, Mary, I agree that 1 Timothy 2:11-12 was part of a chapter about prayer and conduct. Therefore, it does make sense to me that this command should be limited to conduct related to prayer and instruction in the faith.

            However, aren’t you a woman? Does not Timothy command you to be silent and to refrain from teaching the faith to a man? And, yes, my screen name indicated I am a man. Have you not, therefore, committed sin?

            Now, Timothy is a New Testament book so you cannot claim this scripture is part of the Old Covenant and does not apply to you.

        • St. Christopher, what you were talking about was the inability of devout Catholics to turn away from, or to modify, the Truths revealed by the Bible. I completely agree! Once we understand this, there is much of society that needs reforming because many corrupt ideas have crept into society that are accepted by Christians that must be rooted out.

          Here is another: Leviticus 21: 18-23

          Anyone who has any of the following blemishes may not come forward: he who is blind, or lame, or who has a split lip, or a limb too long,

          or a broken leg or arm,

          or who is a hunchback or dwarf or has a growth in the eye, or who is afflicted with sores, scabs, or crushed testicles.

          No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any such blemish may draw near to offer the oblations of the LORD; on account of his blemish he may not draw near to offer the food of his God.

          He may, however, eat the food of his God: of the most sacred as well as sacred offerings.

          Only, he may not enter through the veil nor draw near to the altar on account of his blemish; he shall not profane my sacred precincts, for it is I, the LORD, who make them holy.

          Clearly, the Amercians With Disabilities Act, which forbids discrimination against disabled people, is a corrupt attempt to compel the profane acceptance of cripples as priests. This violates our Catholic values.

          • I’m wondering why you are bringing up the old covenant?

            The temple was destroyed.

          • JonJ: remind me not to join your church! What a waste of time to go through Scripture and find nothing but such inane rambling. However, we thankfully do not have to rely on your interpretations! Praise be to God that Christ left us His Church so that we might understand the Word as spoken by Him. Someday I hope you are able to come to a true understanding of that which you jeer.

          • JonJ, you are confusing the “rules” for the JEWS in the OLD TESTAMENT with the Catholic Faith.

          • JonJ, there are no Jewish priests anymore. There is no sacrifice. There is no temple to offer sacrifice. If there were, it would not be in the US. And if there were, the laws of Leviticus would need to be followed.

          • Have you forgotten Matthew 5: 18 from Christ’s sermon on the mount?

            Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.

          • Alice,

            Are you suggesting that going through the BIble, aiming at discrediting a particular group of people—or an individual—you don’t like is both a toxic waste way to read the Bible and a massive waste of time? What an interesting idea.

        • It might surprise you, but the idea of having sex with another man is repulsive to me.

      • Your Fellow Catholic says

        Thanks for your analysis. The problem with it is that there are too many CCD readers who actually agree with your literal words.

        • YFC, why would you thank someone for an analysis that is wrong, and taken out of context ?
          Have you not read the Bible either?

        • So YFC answer directly should the Church be compelled to accept and affirm homosexual death style?? If so how and would you use the force of state and the law..???

      • JonJ, if you read the Bible you are doing an ignorant job of reading.

        That is from the OLD TESTAMENT as a rule specifically for the JEWS, you will also find a requirement not to eat pork and a requirement for circumcision.

        • confused. says

          But, I thought you said that God’s moral laws were absolute? You mean his Old Testament Moral Laws were NOT absolute? But his New Testament Moral Laws ARE absolute? Ummmm. Is God confused, or am I?

      • JonJ, when men quit being LAZY (slothful) and volunteer,
        most of us women will gladly step back.

        1 Timothy 2 is about “INSTRUCTIONS concerning PRAYER”. What Bible are you using?

        We do not have Women Priests in the Catholic Faith. And this is good.

        • Beth, are you saying that we cannot divorce Biblical rules from context? That act that apparently violate the literal meaning of some verses can, in fact, be moral behavior? Are you saying that the Bible can be used to scapegoat, or kill, almost anyone depending on the biases of the person applying the rules?

    • St. Christopher, here is another vast corruption of society that must be reformed:

      Matthew 6:5-6: “When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.

      But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.”

      Thus, all of those catholic schools where you pray before class show open contempt for God’s word. Think of all the heretics like Fr. Karl, who decry the lack of prayer in schools. We must inform him of his sin.

      Further, think of all the Catholic schools where students are compelled to pray before school events, or legislatures where some heathen purports to pray to God like the hypocritical pagans!

      • JonJ, you are the evil one who does not want anyone to pray together.
        You are a really stupid person in your own interpretation of the Bible.
        There is nothing about praying together as a group that is forbidden in the Bible.

        Showing off and pretending to be Holy so that others will think you are Holy – is the hypocritical act in the verse you quote.
        What is wrong with your brain, JonJ. ?

        • Sandra,

          Are you, perhaps, saying that it is immoral to interpret scripture in such a way as to justify personal hatred and biases rather than for the spiritual benefit of myself or others?

          What an interesting idea.

          • Sandra,

            I might be persuaded that a Catholic classroom, or a church, is analogous to a “closet” or “inner room” mentioned in scripture. The multiple people at such a venue do provide an opportunity to show off an individual’s supposed piety, but we can take people at their word they are there for devotion.

            However, the scripture does call into question such things as baseball players making the sign of the cross before batting, football players giving showy thanks to God after scoring a touchdown or winning a game, or such public acts as “Tebowing”.

            Further, Fr. Karl on this site has many times decried compelled prayer in public schools. How can a public school, with many non-Catholics—and indeed—many non-Christians present not be about “showing off” with the intent on impressing pupils that praying to Christ on a daily basis is right?

            Are you not both attempting to improve devotion by “showing off” and thereby creating social pressure upon Christian pupil; and, implicitly, trying to make non-Christians think they should follow everyone else and become a Christian?

            Scripture indicates this act is not necessarily a sin, but that the reward will be worldly rather than spiritual. Thus, Matthew 6:5-6 seems to suggest that the reward for such an practice would be to raise the worldly status of Christians in the social pecking order rather than any benefit in terms of understanding God.

      • St. Christopher says

        “JonJ”: again, why not leave? You have nothing but contempt for Catholicism and for its wonderful Tradition, so go find a place where you can do and say what you want (and they will love you for it).

        Your interpretation of Matthew is foolish, and wrong. Praying together, and praying publicly are valued by God. Christ was against “showy” praying and that is focus of the verse you quote. He wanted the penitent to ask the Father in prayer where no one else was around to impress.

        You seek to now say that Catholic school prayer is wrong because it is public. Of course, as a HomoFascist, you are against Catholic schools anyway, at least those that teach that there are sexual sins which must be avoided and that marriage can only be between a man and a woman. The only problem with Catholic schools is that there are not enough of them that value fully the Catholic Faith.

        • Anonymous says

          JonJ is gay? If so, I think that makes three of us 😉

          • Nope, Anon. I’m not gay. But St. Christopher apparently wants me to be gay b/c he constantly accuses me of it.

        • I’m glad you asked that question about leaving St. Christopher. Because that brings up another passage that devout Catholics, of course, must not ignore if we are to accept the whole Bible:

          Deuteronomy 17:2-5
          If there is found in your midst, in any one of the communities which the LORD, your God, gives you, a man or a woman who does evil in the sight of the LORD, your God, and transgresses his covenant,
          by going to serve other gods, by bowing down to them, to the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, contrary to my command; and if you are told or hear of it, you must investigate it thoroughly. If the truth of the matter is established that this abomination has been committed in Israel, you shall bring the man or the woman who has done this evil deed out to your gates* and stone the man or the woman to death.

          I cannot leave to worship other Gods, otherwise devout Catholics have a duty to kill me. Though you need another witness, your witness alone is not enough according to the passage.

        • Indeed, St. Christopher. Bible study shows us that loss of practicing Catholics in recent years is due to the failure of the faithful to obey God’s word:

          Deuteronomy 13:7-10
          If your brother, your father’s child or your mother’s child, your son or daughter, your beloved spouse, or your intimate friend entices you secretly, saying, “Come, let us serve other gods,” whom you and your ancestors have not known, any of the gods of the surrounding peoples, near to you or far away, from one end of the earth to the other:
          do not yield or listen to any such person; show no pity or compassion and do not shield such a one, but kill that person. Your hand shall be the first raised to put such a one to death; the hand of all the people shall follow.

          If your child comes home from college and you see he or she has become corrupted with pagan values and has turned away from the faith, you must kill them. Though I suppose you need not do so immediately because you may attempt to bring them back to God before killing them. However, you cannot use that as an excuse to avoid your Catholic duty to God.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says

            I’m beginning to think you were a writer on The West Wing, or work for Lawrence O’Donnell.

          • JonJ, you are not Catholic.
            Based upon your errant posts with your errant interpretations of the Bible, you have never taken a Catholic Bible study course in your life.
            You fool no one with your lies. Mixing fact with your fiction is a tool of Satan.

            In addition, some of the laws in the OLD Testament were written for the JEWS at that time in history.

    • Please read…it isn’t long. http://66.147.242.160/~stumbli4/?p=1674
      It’s a two-pronged assault against faith and reason…from without and within…slipping under faithful Catholic’s guard in the guise of ‘faith and reason”. It’s a new and improved version of ‘loving’ the sinner without having to hate the sin and like barry soreto & Co. turn what was once a common good, like faith and family into things to be vilified as hateful and racist and prejudiced. It’s fiendishly clever and good people and good Catholics who just cling to what was always taught by the Church are drummed out of the Church as being schismatics. St. Padre Pio, pray for us!

      • Steve Phoenix says

        Dana, this is a very informative account, and why you must keep posting info like this to share what is really going on.

      • What can you say to people like this?
        Your pastor retires and you can’t get the Mass YOU want (pay no attention to what GOD wants) and it’s all part of some great conspiracy of Pope Francis to rid the world of Catholicism.
        There are people in the world who have a disease called paranoia.
        Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet.

      • Abeca Christian says

        Dana its a lie when you said as being schismatics. Not when that word is used in its true definition not how you are trying to insinuate here. Your truth, their truth. Moral relativism, its no wonder they hate the real definition of schismatic, just like those who want to redefine marraige now we have those who want to redefine schism and heresy. When you use words like novus ordians, the spirit of V2 etc those are tones of schism as well. Those are from people who want to sell an agenda but they never quote from facts and if they do they take out of context. Tell the truth not your opinions that only sell fear and create only more chaos. Its more than just what Dana neglets to understand about trusting Jesus, about faithfulness,about obedience and humility. God help us all.

        • Ann Malley says

          You seem far too eager to use the terms schism and heresy where none exists, Abeca. Your focus on the ‘tone’ of schism negates reality and attempts to assert a future possibility as reality. That’s called speculation, Abeca, and dismissing fact. Something you do quite frequently because of your own agenda, the very same you refuse to recognize.

          Perhaps you should write a letter to Cardinal Poli in Argentina who just legally acknowledged that the SSPX is part of the Catholic Church, Abeca. Understand? The SSPX “is” Catholic and part of the Catholic Church. Or are you stating that the good cardinal would “officially” recognize as Catholic a schismatic and/or heretical group as Catholic?

          You are very confused and blinded by your own zeal it would seem. Try being faithful and obedient to what “is” instead of what you “fear” might be because of a tone. For your tone is one of arrogance and ideology – not the Catholic Faith.

          http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/world-news/detail/articolo/poli-40351/

          • Anonymous says

            That article does NOT say that the SSPX is part of the Catholic Church.
            It says “It does not mean that St. Pius X has the juridical recognition as a clerical society. The question of the legitimacy of the exercise of the sacerdotal ministry of their priests remains open.”
            I hope that you just misread the article and were not trying to deceive abeca.

          • Ann Malley says

            Keep grasping at straws, Anonymous. You are wrong and deceive yourself. Your attempt to deceive others by your self-styled orthodoxy is also disturbing as you seem incapable of reading for understanding.

            The only one who mentioned juridical status was you.

            Perhaps you should relax and stop operating on the reflex action of what you’re afraid of and look at what is and what is written. The Society is Catholic and is not schismatic and/or heretical. Not my words. Just what is, friend.

          • Ann Malley, it is very difficult to have a conversation with you. Are you aware of how you never have any substance to your posts. You just attack the person who made you mad. You falsely accuse them and berate them. As the saying goes:
            “You don’t have to disrespect and insult others simply to hold your own ground. If you do, that shows how shaky your own position is.”
            Do you not accept the Church’s definitions of schism and heresy?
            If you do not, then arguing whether someone or something is schismatic or heretical is pointless.

          • Ann Malley says

            There is no conversing with you, Anonymous, because, despite what the Vatican says or even what Cardinal Poli has just admitted in Argentina, reality, that is what “is”, consistently escapes you. The SSPX are Catholic and part of the Catholic Church.

            You are intent on fomenting an imagined heresy/schism that does not exist. For what reason I cannot venture. But the remainder of the Church will leave you behind in your personal opinion, friend.

            If you find truth insulting, well, that’s something you’ll have to work through. God bless.

          • Anonymous says

            The Vatican says that the SSPX has no canonical status in the Catholic Church. That means that the SSPX is NOT a part of the Catholic Church.
            Cardinal Poli has not “admitted” anything. Perhaps you need to re-read that article. There are other bishops who have threatened with excommunication those who attend their chapels.
            Does the priest at the Chapel you attend tell you that the SSPX are Catholic and part of the Catholic Church?
            I am not intent on formenting anything. You are badly misled.
            I do not find truth insulting. You insulted me and abeca by saying things that were not true. You sound like a very angry person. Or maybe you are just defensive because you know you are wrong.

          • Ann Malley says

            Cardinal Poli, in a written statement, acknowledged that the SSPX is Catholic and part of the Catholic Church to the legal authorities in Argentina, Anonymous. Deal with it. That and the reality that having no official canonical status at present does not mean one is not Catholic, nor part of the Church.

            You insult yourself, Anonymous, by settling for rhetoric instead of the Faith and the in-depth understanding that you and others deserve… something readily available despite your insistence on remaining firmly in the dark.

          • Anonymous says

            Ann Malley, you are not understanding the article you posted to. Read it again. The whole thing. You do not understand that having no canonical status means they are not an organization of the Catholic Church.
            What is your difficulty with this?

          • Amm Malley, you state that “Cardinal Poli, in a written statement, acknowledged that the SSPX is Catholic and part of the Catholic Church to the legal authorities in Argentina.”
            You seem confused on this.
            This article explains the situation in more detail.
            Ihttp://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/04/argentina-formally-recognizes-sspx-as.html
            Now, if you can let it rest, no one else attends SSPX chapels and it is extremely irrelevant to us. We just don’t like untruths being written that could confuse the faithful.

          • ANN MALLEY, the Cardinal in the article is not the head of the “Catholic Church”. Further he has zero authority outside of his own Diocese.
            The government in Argentina has a strange relationship with the Church based upon the link you provided. The government has to approve what is Catholic and what is not ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

            POPE Francis is required to come out with an OFFICIAL, WRITTEN statement for the status of the SSPX to change within the Catholic Church.

            ” In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has NO canonical STATUS in the Church,
            and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – DO NOT legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. ” Pope Benedict, March 10, 2009.
            http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica.html

          • Your Fellow Catholic says

            So Ann Malley, since you don’t like the words heresy and schism, what would you call a set of people who refuse to listen to Rome and universal ecumenical councils and starts ordaining bishops and priests on its own? Can anyone break off and believe what it wants to believe about liturgy, about ecclesiology, about the papacy, about who can and cannot be ordained, without regard to canon law and Tradition? What is your name for people who set themselves up at the True Church teaching the True Gospel, all the while setting themselves apart from and better than the Bishop of Rome? What is your name for those kinds of people and those kinds of beliefs? Lutheran? Anglican Catholic?

          • YFc you are one the biggest gay heretics on this site, demanding gay marriage… and I know you will demand the Church to accept it…

          • Ann Malley says

            God bless you MAC for attempting to stick with what is “official”. So, friend, “officially” the SSPX is Catholic and part of the Catholic Church, but at present has no canonical status. We are in accord. (Pope Francis when he was Cardinal Bergoglio helped very much to foster this truth telling in Argentina, that is even he admitted that the Society “is” Catholic. Sorry if that offend you.)

            But the erroneous smears of heresy and schism and “not being Catholic” are off the table. Or at least they should be for those who actually understand the Faith and seek to uphold it.

            And the same to you, YFC. For I do like the clear definitions of schism and heresy. That is why I choose to use them appropriately, not precipitously as you and others here do to foment inaccurate division. To use these terms in error as may do is to show disdain not only for their proper definition, but to the Faith and the Church.

            Misguided zeal.

          • Anonymous says

            Ann Malley, sigh. For two years, people have been asking you to educate yourself. You resist the truth when we try to explain it to you. Now, by some magic of your imagination, a group without canonical status is part of the Catholic Church.
            Please stop insulting people who try to help you just because you don’t like what they say.
            There is a possibility that the SSPX will become part of the Catholic Church. But it has not happened yet because the SSPX has rejected some of the doctrine of the Catholic Church. And because they do not want to be obedient to the Pope. (According to Bishop Fellay)
            You can and will believe whatever suits you and whatever is according to your will, but the Catholic Church has to obey the will of God. And God insists on obedience.

      • Your Fellow Catholic says

        Here are a few quotes from blog posts at the site you sent us to. It is clearly an anti-catholic site, as you will see from these quotes, which leads me to ask, Dana, about why you would possibly encourage people to go to anti-catholic websites if you are not yourself anti-catholic? :

        Referring to the announcement of the Jubilee Year of Mercy: “Misericordiae Vultus is the best papal bull ever. And that is no bull.”

        “At his core, the place where there should be Faith and wisdom, doesn’t something seem deeply twisted in the mind of Pope Francis? It’s almost a crushing hatred for those who obstruct his goals, a determination to succeed at their expense. It’s the kind of force which drove the Protestant Reformation: a deranged (ideological?) mind at the helm with all the powerful establishment lined up behind him.”

        “This is FrancisChurch. Catholic teachers can’t teach the Faith. Gay sex must be promoted. Faithless anti-Catholic people must be employed, must be admitted. Morals codes are crushed. The Ancient Mass, or even a holy modern Mass are both suppressed, illegal. The priests are all Protestants. Do you ever see a nun anywhere? Perhaps they hide in plain sight.”

      • Good Catholics are not drummed out of the Church.
        Bad Catholics are not drummed out of the Church.
        Stop believing everything you read on the INTERNET.
        Anybody can say anything on the INTERNET.
        Use your head. It does not happen.

      • Excellent post Dana

        • Thanks, Sandra…I’m not going to the trouble of confronting what are basically personal attacks for sharing a post of a fellow Catholic’s experience. This “gang of four” get more strident as activities in the Vatican get ever more bizarre. I’m so thankful for writers like Hillary White, Austin Ruse, Anthony Esolen and others who help make sense of what is taking place…and for great men like Cd. Burke who are part of the defense for the Church Suffering and the Church Militant. No one here has to believe anything I have to say, but they should respect my right to say it.

          • Ann Malley says

            …the trouble seems to be that whereas you do not expect others to follow you, Dana, or agree with what you post, others are posting with the express purpose of gaining a following. They seek to be “the” authority without having any.

            That is why, in my view, mere observation, especially those of the inconsistency and oddly un-Catholic behavior represented in real time and in their posts causes such a ruckus.

            Thanks for keeping things reality based.

  2. Hosemonkey says

    If these people want blood to run in the streets, they can continue on their present course. I seriously do not believe that the people who are proposing these measures have thought out the reprecusions of such an attempt. I believe that very many Americans, heretofor unheard from, would rise in outrage. Be it civil disobedience or bloody revolution, something bad is gonna happen. Be very careful, sodomites, do not light a fire that you can’t put out.

  3. Linda Maria says

    Our churches quit doing their jobs, during the filthy, lawless, immoral 1960’s “hippie” era– just when people desperately needed help, to find Christ, their True Savior! The Catholic Church (including Pope Francis) has been preaching a sort of babyish, “crossless Christ,” of silly “hippie love,” with no responsibility!! But without MATURITY, ADULT RESPONSIBILITY, and the WORK ETHIC of previous generations– all will sadly perish, after some point– and neither science, nor the lavishly wealthy American economy, can save anyone!! There are lots of disasters, ticking time bombs, waiting to happen, right on one’s doorstep!! As for “openly gay” Frank Bruni– tomorrow, will he be dead of AIDS?? Gay sex acts are sinful perversions, and never meant to exist!! Better to follow God’s Laws, and His Natural Law, in Mother Nature! It is only when we obey God, that we find true happiness in life!!

  4. To use Bruni’s own word style with a different perspective: The continued behavior of men and women with unchosen homosexual feelings to act out sexually and identify as gays, lesbians and bisexuals is a decision. It’s a choice. It prioritizes scattered false narratives they have been fed of their sexual feelings and actions as truths — as if time had stood still for them for these last 50 years, and has stymied any advances of science and knowledge which mean nothing unless it conforms to their narrative. GK Chesterton said, “The Church is the only thing that saves men and women from the terrible indignity of being children of the age.”

    • Homosexual Acts, Fornication, and Adultery are all chosen acts.
      They are Mortal Sins.
      We must never tolerate Mortal Sins of any kind.

      Radical Homosexuals (and the liberal media) clearly intend to try to FORCE others to condone, accept, and approve of sodomy and other homosexual acts.

      ***They are INTOLERATE of our Religious Beliefs – which do not affect them in the least. With their free will, they have the option of being Christian or not. No one is forcing them to be Christian.

    • St. Christopher says

      Yes, “Father Richard Perozich” that is entirely the point — acting on homosexual impulses is a “choice” (even, for the sake of argument, if the impulse itself is in-born). Of course, Bruni, and HomoFascists know this, but care not at all.

      They want their “unnatural” actions made natural by law and by the Church. If they cannot have this then they want to lock up the churches, without exception.

      Homosexuals have never wanted simply to be left alone. They want their perversion (that is their “unnaturalness”) to be admired, and emulated. No one is permitted any religious scruple against sodomy. In fact, a good number of bishops and cardinals have already agreed to this, as can be seen in their agreement with the Relatio of the past Synod. And, so too, does Francis appear to agree with this, as he insisted, by the accounts of Cardinal Baldisseri, that the “non-approved” paragraphs be published anyway, along with approved texts. And, the Pope has appointed the most reprehensible men, people like Cardinal Daneels (who protected notorious child molesters, among other things) and Abp. Forte, to assist at the next Synod.

      Things look very dark indeed.

    • Abeca Christian says

      I agree Father Perozich God bless you for your post!

  5. “In these times of violence and of brutal, savage sexuality, we have to be rebels: we refuse point blank to go with the tide, and become beasts.

    We want to behave like children of God, like men and women who are on intimate terms with their Father, who is in Heaven and who wants to be very close to — in side!– each one of us.

    Meditate on this frequently, I am a Catholic, a child of Christ’s Church. He brought me to birth in a home that is his, without my doing anything to deserve it.

    My God, how much I owe you.”

    From the Forge
    by St. Josemarie Escriva

  6. Michael McDermott says

    ‘AP’ – the ‘Associated Pres’ wireheads of old, was taken over by the old Dean Singleton Propaganda Network (MediaNews, Trying Times…) that controlled a huge amount of what the ‘Vanilla(clueless taxpaying voters) were allowed to see / hear – and what was Censored, for decades.

    Their Alinskyite tactics twice were to use by ‘our’ bought and paid for ‘free press’ to push the Abomination of POTUS Barry ‘on the Down Low’ Soetoro in to Executive Tyrant status – and afterwards Singleton retired and the Propaganda conglomerate became “Digital First Media” – which still Censors the ‘news’ throughout almost all of America.

    The AP story of Dan ‘The Savage Lickspittle’ and opposition to Disney putting this hate mongering Bio-Terrorist on the boob tube as inspiration for others – mentions the ‘google bomb’ of Santorum (with goo-ghoul complicity) and the Bio-Terrorist Attack on the Gary Bauer Campaign in 2000 – but skips over Savage’s Guilty Plea to Election Fraud by Falsely Gegistering to Vote in Iowa (so as to infiltrate the Republicans) while actually living out of state.

    Media Research Council http://www.mrc.org has a Petition against this Evil – and said:
    “The Associated Press noted in an article last evening that members of the Media Research Center “have sent more than 21,000 postcards and made more than 4,000 telephone calls asking ABC to abandon” the new television sitcom based on the life of anti-Christian bigot Dan Savage.

    CALL NOW! (877) 957-3129

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TV_SAVAGE_COMEDY?

  7. “traditional Christianity – provides the greatest resistance to normalizing homosexuality in the United States ” It isn’t normal, it isn’t natural and it isn’t what God intended.

    • Sacred Scripture (a Catholic Bible), and the Doctrine of the Faith (contained in the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” second edition.

      Know your Faith accurately, and you may even be able to convert wayward Bishops and wayward Priests.

  8. Not only are radical HOMOSEXUALS INTOLERANT of others’ religious beliefs,
    but now they want to DICTATE what we should and should not believe in our own Faith.

    Sacred Scripture: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:10;
    Jude 1:7.

    CCC: # 2357, 2358, 2359, & 2396.

    • ” Christian churches ‘MUST BE MADE’ to affirm homosexuality ” – says it all.
      This HITLER-esk behavior is not surprising.
      Do it MY homosexual way or else.

      This is why homosexuals complain about the Bible and CCC.

      Everyone should read the Bible passages and CCC quotes as provided by DOTTIE, so that you know the truth.
      Save them for reference as well.

    • This is only the start of the TRUE HOMOSEXUAL agenda – making everyone conform to their sexual desires.
      Let us not forget their attack on the Catechism.
      ” Catechists hear Catechism dissed”
      https://cal-catholic.com/?p=17699

  9. This guy, and those backing him, have made a big mistake, an enormous one. He has come out against Mom, apple pie and Johnny Appleseed. I would not want to be anywhere near him on Judgment Day, unless he repents, and it is coming soon for all of us, no matter the day nor the hour.

  10. And, yes, I know Johnny Appleseed passed around Protestant Bibles, either the King James or the Geneva one, but, although flawed, they were close enough to the truth that no Christian has an excuse to defend sodomy, etc., whether Catholic or Protestant.

  11. OneoftheSheep says

    “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15

  12. Bill Maher is one of the most influential men in America. Anyone who watches him knows he is anti-christian or any other religious belief. But, he has a wide following, especially among the under 50 crowd. When he speaks, they listen. Here is what he said about Christian beliefs relative to gays: During “Real Time With Bill Maher,” the host discussed how discrimination against gay people by Christian fundamentalists is rooted in the latter’s literal belief in the Bible.

    “The reason fundamentalists are so stubbornly anti-gay is they truly believe that condoning homosexuality will bring on God’s wrath,” he said. “Take fundamentalists at their word. They literally believe this stuff.”

    As evidence, Maher pointed to comments made by such prominent fundamentalists as Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, Pat Robertson and Bob Jones III about how gay people should be mistreated and how God has allegedly expressed his anger over Pride parades.

    • Tom Byrne says

      Bob One:
      You realize that no human being hurt any homosexual in the Bible? A couple of the the kings of Judah are praised in the Books of Chronicles for expelling them from Jerusalem (at least those who had been temple prostitutes during pagan intervals), but there’s no mention of any beatings or pogroms or anything of the sort. St. Paul mentions they will suffer the wrath of God, but says nothing about the wrath of man. The destruction of the Cities of the Plain was God’s act from beginning to end.
      Herein lies the problem: when Lot knew what was about to happen he pleaded with his future sons-in-law to join him and flee the city, but they laughed it off. The “fundamentalists” you list fear the same: that if they do not resist these movements, they risk perishing with the sinners. As a Catholic, I don’t say they’ve got it spot on, but i think I represent their anxieties.

      • Ummm,

        Tom, did you forget that little passage in Leviticus 20:13, If a man lies with another man as with a woman, they have committed an abomination; the two of them shall be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them.

        I find it little weasel worded to claim that no homosexual was killed by men in the Bible when it instructs the Hebrews to kill any homosexuals discovered among them.

    • Christianity is not for the many, B.O. “Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried.” Gilbert K. Chesterton. It doesn’t say much for Catholics if Maher, (the Peewee Herman of the American intellectual elite, just a urinal flush from being Howard Stern) doesn’t accuse our bishops of “actually believing this stuff”, does it? Perish the thought we might actually be accused of believing that God finds sodomy an abomination, that the Bible is the sacred, inerrant word of God . What do you believe, B.O.? Remember the question “If you were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?” As for Mr.Maher, his face is contorted into a perpetual sneer. Poor man! “For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world”.

      • Post Script…( here’s where when I was a graphic designer I would have changed the font from a graceful 24 pt Lombardi to an italicized 24 pt bold Roman for emphasis) this article is so excellent and pertinent to our discussion! Please read! CCD is so marvelous for providing a forum for discussion etc. http://www.onepeterfive.com/were-going-to-keep-talking-about-schism-wherein-steve-rants/

        • Here is a quote of St. Basil from this post: “Religious people keep silence, but every blaspheming tongue is let loose. Sacred things are profaned; those of the laity who are sound in faith avoid the places of worship as schools of impiety, and raise their hands in solitudes, with groans and tears to the Lord in heaven.” Ep. 92. Four years after he writes: “Matters have come to this pass: the people have left their houses of prayer, and assemble in deserts,—a pitiable sight; women and children, old men, and men otherwise infirm, wretchedly faring in the open air, amid the most profuse rains and snow-storms and winds and frosts of winter; and again in summer under a scorching sun. To this they submit, because they will have no part in the {460} wicked Arian leaven.” Ep. 242. Again: “Only one offence is now vigorously punished,—an accurate observance of our fathers’ traditions. For this cause the pious are driven from their countries, and transported into deserts. The people are in lamentation, in continual tears at home and abroad. There is a cry in the city, a cry in the country, in the roads, in the deserts. Joy and spiritual cheerfulness are no more; our feasts are turned into mourning; our houses of prayer are shut up, our altars deprived of the spiritual worship.” Ep. 243.”

          • Ann Malley says

            “…Only one offence is now vigorously punished,—an accurate observance of our fathers’ traditions. For this cause the pious are driven from their countries, and transported into deserts.”

            Which explains the concerted attacks of the “gang of 4” you mentioned who desire nothing more, at least here, to push the voice of faith off CCD…. and even quiet CCD period.

          • Anonymous says

            That is not the case today.
            No pious person is driven from the Church.
            You are comparing apples and oranges.

          • Catherine says

            There is nothing new under the sun. I am grateful to God for our current ability to inform one another of the many modern day events that resemble those words. Thank you Dana for that very thought provoking quote from St. Basil and for being a much needed bright light in Indiana. Your posts on CCD are always and have always been valued. God bless you!

            “In the End My Immaculate Heart Will Triumph!”

        • Thanks Anne and Catherine…though I’m not a Hoosier but a Buckeye. 😉 But I was definitely upset with what has been happening in Indiana. If you’ve ever seen Mr Smith Goes to Washington with James Stewart, you’ll remember how the crooks were just like the thugs (who see themselves in white hats because they’re rich and/or famous which is tantamount to being royalty in this country) who swanned and sashayed their way into Indiana to force them to back down on its really timid attempt to support religious liberty…they made Putin look good in the Crimea. Instead of tanks and guns they used money…lots of it! Anyway, it was just as disgusting to see our Catholic gov. hustling business from Indiana while they were being shaken down by the velvet mafia . He should have been supporting them! Scoundrels, all.

    • Bob One, Maher is not one of the most influential people in America – even for the crowds under 50.
      Stop watching such garbage to improve his failing ratings. And never repeat what he says to try to give him credence.
      Btw, Maher does not believe in God.

    • Bob One, why would you quote a religion hating atheist like Maher?
      And why would you care what other Faiths believe or not ?
      Most of those Maher has quoted have been dead for years, if that is the best he can do in mocking their Faith – he is in real trouble.
      Besides, Maher “misquotes” all the time, and takes the speech of those he mocks out of context frequently.

      • Al, you raise a good question. Why mention Maher? Because, we who live in the faith live in a culture that does not believe, and he is one of those convincing others that we are nuts. If we could stop bashing our Bishops as much as we do and start bashing people like him, we might get some traction. In terms of religious freedom, he is one of the enemy and we need to know what he says and to whom. Machiavelli was correct: keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

        • Maher is the nut. I do not watch him, and encourage others not to watch him either. His lies are pathetic.

          His eternal reward may not be so laughable.

        • If you want to know what the young secular world is thinking Jon Stewart’s Daily Show is where they download what they’re going to be thinking tomorrow. I don’t know if his replacement will be as influential but it’s pretty scary that a whole generation gets its religion, news and political stance from Comedy Central…but then, it might be a step up from mainstream news?

  13. Father Karl says

    Truth NEVER changes. The mortal sin of sodomy could be a venial sin if someone did not practice free will when the act was done. Example, if the victim was drunk or drugged or forced into it. Otherwise, it is a mortal sin. Any habit can be broken, and even if the temptation is there, the person does not have to give in to sin. Society, especially the media is trying to change Christian morality. True and firm believers in Jesus Christ will never change their teaching about sodomy. It is a sin, which cries to God for vengeance. No matter who tries to change it, God will never allow or condone sins against nature.

    • Father Karl,

      Are you saying that a victim of a homosexual rape has still committed a venial sin? If someone was drugged, drunk, or forced into it [presumably sodomy], where is the free will required for sin? It is my understanding that even venial sin requires free will.

      While we are on the subject, Fr. Karl, how do you square Matthew 6:5-6. I will quote myself from a post above:

      “How can a public school, with many non-Catholics—and indeed—many non-Christians present not be about “showing off” with the intent on impressing pupils that praying to Christ on a daily basis is right?

      Are you not both attempting to improve devotion by “showing off” and thereby creating social pressure upon Christian pupils; and, implicitly, trying to make non-Christians think they should follow everyone else and become a Christian?

      Scripture indicates this act is not necessarily a sin, but that the reward will be worldly rather than spiritual. Thus, Matthew 6:5-6 seems to suggest that the reward for such an practice would be to raise the worldly status of Christians in the social pecking order rather than any benefit in terms of understanding God”

      I conceded that you might get some non-believers to pretend to worship God. Yet, is this benefit worth aligning yourself with those that Jesus called “hypocrites” elsewhere in the Sermon on the Mount?

    • Your Fellow Catholic says

      So Father Karl, if a convict in a prison is sodomized, his sin is venial? Are you actually saying that the victim of rape is guilty of a venial sin? I’m just trying to understand your thinking.

  14. The vast majority of Catholics in the U.S. already accept gay marriage and that number will no doubt grow as older generations die off. The Bishops persist in their deer-in-the-headlights timidity on this and many other issues, too afraid of losing followers and their associated checkbooks.

    • Dave N the Church will remain Faithful and we will be smaller but Holier… which is all that matters… I say back to catacombs….

    • Dave N, this is what happens when many Bishops are too busy doing other things rather than teaching the Faith – accurately and completely.

      Like good fathers they must teach, correct, and when necessary discipline. But many do not.
      Hosea 4:6 ” My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;
      because you have rejected knowledge,
      I reject you from being a priest to me.
      And since you have forgotten the law of your God,
      I also will forget your children. ”

      What is so difficult about publically and frequently exhorting literate Catholics to read the Bible and the CCC, so they will know the Faith ? ? ? ? ?

      I would not want to be in their shoes at their particular judgment at death. They will not be able to explain “why” they did not teach.

  15. Patricia Cornell says

    Homosexuals who compose 2 % of the population cannot tell the other 98% to obey them….not re ‘marriage’, not the CA stare paying for transgender
    operations of adults.

    On children, that is different…..they have drunk the tap water with contraceptives which filtering cannot remove. Those chemicals disturb the some of the little boys’ hormonal makeup.

    Children with reassignments have proven to have their behavior issues solved with such operations.

    We were told not to use birth control as it was morally wrong. Come to find out, taking them was wrong for other reasons.

  16. St. Christopher says

    Not many people realize what Bruni puts at issue here — and he is not alone. Essentially, he is asking for the revision of the Catholic Faith (as a condition to permitting it to continue). At least the HomoFascists are speaking plainly.

    And, what is Francis doing? Appointing vile men, men who have no business even taking communion, much less being bishops and cardinals, to “advise” him at the October Synod. Can anyone imagine what role Cardinal Daneels can play here? Or C. Kasper? Or C. Dolan? Or C. Wuerl? Or Abp. Forte? Well, the list goes on. This lineup is to Apostacy what the 1927 lineup of the NY Yankees was to championship baseball.

    It is now April and the clock is ticking down. One can only pray to the Holy Ghost regarding the Pope, who seem simply lost. Perhaps Francis will surprise, as Paul VI did with Humanae Vitae.

    • Steve Phoenix says

      At the Mar. 7th commemoration/50th anniversary event marking the use of the vernacular in the Mass (by the way, it was Paul VI celebrating the Traditional Latin Mass, with the readings and some prayers in Italian, the Canon was entirely in Latin, and there was NO Novus Ordo Mass at all, because that was never the will of the Council Fathers in Mar. 1965), Card. Kasper was directly at PF’S right elbow, smilingly leering over him like some gargoyle. You can see images of him, with a grin that is positively creepy (Pelosi-esque), as he nods like a bobble – head doll to P. Francis” every confused word..

      Card. Kasper is certainly well-known to the Pontiff as having called the miracles of Christ in the Gospel “legends”, formally practicing heresy, yet PF selects him as his closest counselor and advisor. In fact, the celebration was held at Ognissanti church, the titular church of Kasper, evidencing the Kasper-Bergoglio axis.

      It calls to mind the late papal theologian Card. Mario Luis Ciappi’s statement—Ciappi, the official theologian of 5 pontiffs, from Pius XII on—who, having actually read the 3rd real secret of Fatima, Ciappi stated: “The Third Secret of Fatima, among other things, is about apostasy in the Church, starting at the top.”

  17. BTW, I don’t agree with Bruni that Christian Churches should be forced to affirm homosexuality.

    I just wanted to make that clear. That isn’t what I’m arguing for. I’m arguing against posters who believe that the Bible condones abusing and ridiculing homosexuals like St. Christopher, Michael McDermott, and Canisius do in their posts.

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