Interactions with Gay Catholics Tenderizes Us’

Archbishop Cordileone interviewed on KQED, San Francisco
Archbishop Cordileone

Archbishop Cordileone

The following comes from a Dec. 16 story on KQED San Francisco.

In an interview with “KQED Newsroom” Friday, San Francisco Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone talked about sports, gay marriage and the power of Pope Francis, who last week was named Time magazine’s Person of the Year.

Cordileone had a rough landing in famously liberal San Francisco when Pope Benedict XVI named him archbishop last year. As a leading supporter of Prop. 8, which banned same-sex marriage in California until the Supreme Court threw it out, Cordileone’s appointment generated anger and concern in the LGBT community.

In 2008, when Cordileone was still a bishop in San Diego, he helped organize efforts to get Prop. 8 on the California ballot and he personally contributed at least $6,000, according to state campaign finance records.

In our discussion, Archbishop Cordileone said he’s been reaching out in hopes of “getting to know gay Catholics,” joining parishioners for meals at Most Holy Redeemer Church in the Castro.

“When we don’t interact with each other, we can make decisions or get images based on stereotypes – that happens on both sides,” the archbishop said.

When asked what he’s learned from those interactions, Cordileone said he’s come to understand how gay people have “suffered.”

“They’ve been disowned by their families,” he said. “They’ve been harmed and they want to come to a place that will accept them for who they are. And affirm them. So it tenderizes us.”

And yet, Archbishop Cordileone still chairs the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Subcommittee for the Promotion and Defense of Marriage. Just last month in that capacity, he responded to the passage of same-sex marriage legislation in Hawaii, saying, “The decision in Hawaii is disappointing and shows the need for rebuilding a culture of the family in our country,” adding that “changing the meaning of marriage in the law does not promote the common good or protect authentic rights.” So clearly, the archbishop’s views have not changed, even if his rhetoric is softer.

During our interview, Cordileone, a big supporter of the DREAM Act, also explained why immigration reform was so important to him and his flock.

“Immigration is sort of a metaphor for who we understand ourselves to be spiritually,” Cordileone said. “We as believers are not at home here. We’re on a pilgrimage….”

To read the entire story, click here.

 

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Comments

  1. “They’ve been disowned by their families,” he said. “They’ve been harmed and they want to come to a place that will accept them for who they are. And affirm them. So it tenderizes us.”

    I wonder if our Lord had ever met with an LGBT group, sat and ate with them, what He would tell them? Would He be tenderized, pat them on the back and tell them it is OK to continue their offensive behavior in defiance of Himself, God the Father, and the Holy Ghost? Or would our Lord correct, admonish, and direct them to commit this horrible disgusting sin no more like He did to the sinners written in the holy gospels? I think gospel precedence would win, and our Lord would correct, admonish, and direct them to stop their homosexual behavior or be prepared to suffer the consequences in hell for eternity. God is the Alpha and the Omega, He can not deceive nor be deceived, nor change over time, as He has no need to, He is supreme, the Creator of the world. He has made clear to us His commandments and laws as written in the Holy Bible, especially St. Paul’s epistle to the Romans, Chapter 1 verses 26 through 32.

    • He might let you cast the stones you want to cast if you are sinless yoursel, Tom, or he just might tell you, Tom, to pull the sequoia out of your own eye before you take to judging others…

      • Couldn’t the Lord also say the same thing to you too? You too are condemning someone here.

        Besides, no one is stoning anyone on this site or in America even. We’re talking and as of now at least, we’re free to talk. Talk is not stoning and you should be ashamed of yourself for insinuating this.

        If we suppose that gay people are similar the woman caught in adultery in the gospel story, then Jesus is tell you to stop with the gay sex. Please don’t make yourself into a hypocrite for crowing over the supposed sins of someone else.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Rad trad here we go again…the homosexuals are now again using that throw the stone passage….come on…..it is the other way around….it is the gay activists and or active homosexuals who are the ones throwing the stone but more twisted because they are wanting to stone anyone who honors God!

        Also the pull your own rod our of your own eye’s does not apply here….because God has already judged and He detests homosexual acts. Sodomy is an act that defy the natural law…The LORD HAS SPOKEN and it is not debatable!

      • Don’t forget, after Jesus interceded and prevented a stoning, he told the woman, “Go and sin no more.” Seems that is what this bishop is saying.

    • Why are you so upset ? you do no good to any of us ….nor to you.

    • vanityofvanitys says:

      I am not convinced homosexuality is “thee sin” that condemns a man to hell? Why do you think that? Why would Jesus admonish or castigate that sinner but share the gospel with adulterers and fornicators and thieves as though what they done is not as bad? “To whom more has been given, more will be required.” Perhaps you and I were not given such a heavy cross to bear? Perhaps we need to be more holy in some ways? I am not one who would advocate for gay marriage or the teaching that “gay is ok” in schools or elsewhere. But I also would never say that being gay makes that sinner worse than my sins.

      • You’re a breath of fresh air. I’ve been saying the same thing for years, that homosexuality is no different from any other sin. However other sins do not have organized lobbies. For me, the organized lobby is far worse then the acts themselves. It is the ideology or more properly put the heresy that is the really dangerous thing. We have to be clear with this. The individuals are sinners, to a greater or lesser degree. Individuals, whether gay or straight, have God at work in their lives. But the ideology has to be defeated and defeated soundly. So no gay marriage, no gay adoption, no gay translations or interpretations of the bible, no “born this way”, none of it.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          BRAVO MARKF….that is exactly how we all feel….it is the “gay Mafia” “Gay Activist” whatever people want to call it….it is what we are now having to face and need to flush it because it is what is affecting our society. Pretty soon we won’t be able to even preach the truth to help our homosexual brothers because the “gay Lobby” will make it illegal or at least hunt you down if you try. It’s time to return this culture to it’s common sense and common decency we once had….one person at at time, one law at a time…and maybe we can help families find the real support they need to help those suffering with this disorder. That is real love. Not the cheap full of false compassion secular love that is being promoted today.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Except, MarkF, that to say “none of it” implies that “it” is not a part of nature. Being gay is not something someone chooses. It is not a sin, according to the catholic church. Yet gay kids, long before they ever explore or act on their own sexuality, are ostracized by their families and churches in many cases. You can’t say “none of it” to the fact that some people are naturally gay any more than you can say “none of it” to a storm or a beach or a river.

    • Jesus would eat with such people as surely as He ate with tax collectors and prostitutes, for He came to call sinners. He would probably say what He said to the woman caught in adultery:” I do not condemn you. But from now on, avoid this sin”.
      Remember the man who came to the wedding feast without the proper garment? In those days, the host provided such garments, so the man’s refusal says: “I am coming to the feast on my terms, not yours.” For this reason, he was cast out into the darkness. Jesus invites all, but we must come on His terms, which means obedience to the Commandments (including the Sixth) and avoiding sin.

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Tom B. asks, “I wonder if our Lord had ever met with an LGBT group, sat and ate with them, what He would tell them? Would He be tenderized, pat them on the back and tell them it is OK to continue their offensive behavior in defiance of Himself, God the Father, and the Holy Ghost? Or would our Lord correct, admonish, and direct them to commit this horrible disgusting sin no more like He did to the sinners written in the holy gospels?”

      Tom, you don’t have to wonder about these questions. All you have to do is go out and meet some LGBT Christians, who have already encountered Christ in prayer, in the sacraments, in the Word, and in the midst of the People of God. They will tell you what Christ says. No need to wonder. He tells us exactly the same thing he tells everyone who has a heart open to hear: ‘Love one another as I have loved you’. And especially in Advent and Christmas he says, ‘I am Emmanuel, God is among you’.

      • YFC, along with that saying of Jesus you mention, you mustn’t forget that He also says: “Go and sin no more.” Just focusing on the seemingly “benign” sayings of Jesus while forgetting where he challenges people to abandon sin (which includes homosexual acts) reduces Our Savior’s words to mere syrupy, saccharine, sugary, non-challenging fluff! Jesus’ words were meant to challenge and to heal. Heal from sin.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          jon, you conveniently leave out that “as I have loved you” is a clear reference to a Christ who pours himself out for many for the forgiveness of sin. Who, out of that love, gave up his very life for us. “Love one another as I have loved you” is hardly syrupy, saccharine, sugary or non-challenging. To love is to lay down one’s life for another. Or had you forgotten?

          • What you want YFC is the validation of sodomy, cut and dry, you and your perverted community constantly forget the Christ is coming to judge the living and the dead by fire. I often wonder YFC do you and rest of the gay positive filth that has infected ranks of the Church even bother going to confession since you don’t see your gay sex as sinful….

          • Ann Malley says:

            To lay down one’s life is absolutely not syrupy, but requires the ultimate sacrifice much like speaking the Truth when those who should thank you and love you for it, hate you for it. Christ did that too.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            I’m still praying for you dear Canisius. Peace to you, especially this Christmas.

      • YFC, yes, that was beautiful. This is exactly what the Pope wants us to realize. That God is really present to every person. That God loves every person. That nothing a person does can separate him from the love of God. Even though sin offends Him, we have an intercessor in Heaven. Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Son of God, the Word made flesh, came down from Heaven and died for our sins. He took the punishment for us. “O Blood and Water, which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus as a fountain of Mercy for us, I trust in You.” “Though your sins be as scarlet, they will be as white as snow.” We try to live according to His Word to show Him we love Him as well. God bless you. Merry Christmas. “Hail and Blessed be the Hour and Moment in which the Son of God was born, of the Most Pure Virgin Mary, at midnight, in Bethlehem, in piercing cold. In that hour, vouchsafe O my God to hear my prayer and grant my desire through the merits of our Savior Jesus Christ and of His Blessed Mother.” Every day offer His Wounds to the Father for the conversion of sinners and the relief of souls in Purgatory. Offer to God your labors in union with the labors Jesus performed while on earth. Cover all you do with His Precious Blood. Place all your projects into His Sacred Heart. He is with us always.

    • Fr. Jay Finelli says:

      Surely you don’t believe Our Lord would throw them out like garbage? I’m chaplain for Courage and I have met many struggling and suffering people who have same-sex attraction. Those who are living or trying to live a celibate life are very heroic people. Those who are not still need our love and compassion.

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        YFC,

        You very conveniently left out “GO AND SIN NO MORE”!

        May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
        Viva Cristo Rey!
        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
        Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Fr. Finelli,

        I hope and pray that you are not one of those “wolves in sheeops’ clothing” that tell them that “it’s okay, God understands”!

        I knew Fr. Harvey, and he would not agree with you if you are one of those. Compassion, yes, approval NO!

        May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
        Viva Cristo Rey!
        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
        Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.

        • Courage is a twelve-step program. So of course he doesn’t. And anyone who takes a moral inventory of themselves is humbled and it helps them to realize the root causes of their behavior and its destructiveness to themselves and others. Fr. Harvey really cared about people. I am sure a lot of those who post here do to. Do you love them enough to take their punishment? Like Jesus did? Like Mary did?

      • ubipetrusest says:

        Dear Fr. Finelli,
        I think Tom B. has a point. Jesus calls us to conversion, but militant homosexuals of various persuasions (LGBT) do not feel they must live a celibate life. These persons do not live as celibates, as all unmarried are called to live. It is a false “charity” to accept their emotional and self-centered arguments. It is a real coup that after years of bankrupting settlements by dioceses/archdioceses to victims of clerical sexual abuse, we are now being urged to “tenderize” our feelings for those who define their lives and identity by the objectively disordered, unnatural acts they engage in. The “homosexual” lifestyle is characterized by promiscuity and violence. Those pushing for its acceptance ignore this fact.
        Jesus told us to keep the Commandments if we love him; Tom B. makes this point. Many sexually active homosexuals deny that the Commandments apply to them and act accordingly. To point this out, as Tom B. does, is not to “cast stones”–as an earlier commenter charges–but to reiterate Jesus’s command that we follow the Commandments if we love him.
        The members of Courage have admirably faced themselves in a way that those leading an active homosexual life have not. It is important that we do not lump both groups together.
        “Our love and compassion” are not expressed by allowing the “gay mafia” to railroad us, society, and our children.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          The very fact that you use intentionally derogatory terms like “gay mafia” shows that you do not have compassion for gay people, ubipetrus.

          • Or perhaps he does not have compassion on jack booted thugs who vandalized Churches, shut down businesses like the Colorado baker, caused an elderly couple in Britain to lose their home, and got a TV show canceled because those people would not condone sodomy. I find it hard to have compassion on those who persecute Christians and deprive them of a livelihood for being faithful to Jesus Christ. Do you have a problem with that YFC?

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Yes Ski Ven I have a problem with that. In a pluralistic society like ours, in which we are e pluribus unum, we agree that different people have different religions and some have no religion at all, yet we all serve one another in public accommodations equally. So yes, I have a problem with a baker who tries to use his business to discriminate illegally against any member of our society, be they black, jewish, or gay. And because you may not understand what public accommodation law is all about doesn’t mean that you have the right to say “mafia” to describe those who enforce the law.

          • Yes, I do have the right to to use the word mafia to describe those who vandalize Churches and persecute Christians for believing that marriage is between one man and one woman. You sodomy freaks want to dictate to other people what their religious beliefs should be and what words they are allowed to use to describe your fascist tactics. Just who do you think you are? What gives you the right to dictate to Phil Robertson that he CAN’T believe that marriage is between a man and a woman? What gives you the right to dictate to Chick-Fil-A that they should NOT believe that marriage is between a man and a woman? What gives you the right to use the authoritarian jack booted power of a police state to shut down bakeries and put photographers out of business because they believe that marriage is between a man and a woman? Who died and made you queen? You authoritarian jack booted thug. You have no business being in charge of our beliefs and discriminating against Christians. And yes, I am mad. I am bitter and angry, I am clinging to my guns, my religion, and my Duck Commander gear. I am tired of seeing Christians being bullied and discriminated against. I will keep using the words fascist, authoritarian, jack booted thugs, sodomy fanatics, and anti-Christian bigots to describe those who persecute Christians for upholding the teachings of Jesus Christ. What are you gonna do about it?

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            What am I gonna do about it? I’m going to remind you that the laws and Constitution govern our civil society, and I’m going to remind you that requiring someone who offers a public accommodation to serve all people does not impinge upon their right to believe whatever backward and heinous things they want to believe. I’m also going to remind you that the network that distributes TV shows has a first amendment freedom of speech to choose not to air heinous things on its air if it chooses not to.

          • You don’t have the right to force anyone to condone sodomy or to force your perverted definition of marriage upon anyone. God defined marriage in “the beginning”. What God has joined together, let no man put asunder. You have a lot of nerve to say that God’s ways are “backward and heinous”. People don’t lose their civil rights just because they started a business, either. You show nothing but arrogance and contempt here. You and your fellow travelers have shown nothing but contempt for those who believe in what God has established in “the beginning”. You guys vandalize churches, give death threats, produce vulgar images of Jesus, and crush business for their religious beliefs. And then you act like the only reason other people don’t like you is because of bigotry and you are just an innocent victim, yeah right. You also act like television viewers have no right to refuse to watch a network that has just spit in their face and discriminated against Christians. You will soon be disabused of that notion. I look forward to seeing A&E wither away. Another network can do a show about the Robertson family. Viewers have the right to watch another network and to stock up on Duck Commander gear. People who you disagree with and despise have rights too. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            YFC then I’m going to remind you that this is a Catholic WEBSITE…where people of faith are allowed to post freely…why are you here…..and why is this website not doing what you say those of “gay” rights have and can do under the law, this website has the right to censor attacks on the faith, you clearly keeping offending many here of faith…under the law this website can also choose whether to publish your pro gay remarks since this is a Catholic website…it is better we defend our freedoms now because PEOPLE YOU HEARD IT….YFC HAS exposed and threatened to take away the free speech from Christians….you are reading it for yourselves……His agenda driven activism tactics are exposing this truth to us….it is now the time to act and let this visitor here know that he has crossed the line, telling a Catholic what he can or can not do…shameful!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            YFC we have compassion for all homosexuals but we can not support the tactics of the real “gay mafia”….you are forgetting that there is such a thing, just like there is real mafia’s of other things controlling once again more people due to their corrupt power.

    • I am totally against the sin of homosexuality. I think that Our Lord did do exactly what His Excellency did. He did eat with sinners of whom I am the first. Each week I eat of His Body and Blood and beg Him to “only say the word and my soul may be healed”. Homosexuality is a Mortal Sin. I unfortunately have committed many Mortal sins. Yet there is a remedy in the Blood of Jesus and the Sacrament of Penance. It is impossible to motivate people to give of the way of sin just because it says so in the Bible. we must encounter and fall in Love with the Person of Jesus. The Christ who condemned adultery did so by forgiving and exhorting the woman to “sin no more”.
      I also find so many Scripture verses that worry me about my sinfulness I don’t have the luxury to condemn the sins of others. Remember the Archbishop is the shepherd of all the people of San Francisco not just the ones in the state of grace. I know that he will be called to answer for any soul that was under his care that was lost. So if not helping the Gay community in San Francisco , where should he be? I don’t know anyone who would be motivated to convert because they are bullied into doing so. Let’s let the Archbishop do his pastoral care and remind ourselves we will never have to answer for the sins of others just the myriad of our own!

      • Mook…Please remember that neither homo or hetrosexuality are sins as far as r our Church is concerned. Certain sexual acts are but neither “state of being” is 2357-59 of the CCC make that pretty clear.

        • C&H then why are there so many gay friendly people in the Church who deny the truth that homosexual acts are sinful….

        • CCC: ” 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.”
          (“Gravely” means Mortal Sin.)

          CCC: ” 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.
          Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,
          tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity.
          Under no circumstances can they be approved.”

          Bible: Gen 19-1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.

          Letter to Bishops on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons – Vatican web site -
          ” 15. We encourage the Bishops, then, to provide pastoral care in full accord with the teaching of the Church for homosexual persons of their dioceses. No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral. A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin.”
          http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

    • Thank you Tom B! Beautifully said. And yes, the Gospel precedence would certainly win. Recently on a news program a man commented on how wonderful it was for the first time to hear Pope Francis use the word “gay”. The man said that it meant so much to be validated in that word. The article above says that Archbishop Cordileone used the phrase “gay Catholic” What is a “gay” Catholic? We should never validate the identity of person as being their temptations. In our Legion of Mary work we visited and cared for many individuals who were attracted to the same sex who were baptized Catholics who had left the practice of their faith.

      One gentleman that we visited for several years was given a Miraculous Medal to wear by his brother who loved him. That brother trusted in God and Our Lady, and unbeknownst to the brother, shortly after the brother received and started to wear the Miraculous Medal a caring pastor sent out the Legion of Mary to door knock in this man’s neighborhood and he cordially invited us in. This man was sick and suffering from AIDS. It would also be wrong to define this man as an AIDS Catholic or a “gay” Catholic. We became friends and this man returned to the sacraments before his death. Compassion is of the utmost importance when reaching out to anyone who struggles with any type of particular sin or vice.

      • Anton L. Seidl says:

        Catherine: I doubt the pope did not use the word “gay”. It is a perverted Engish word that was highjacked by homosexuals to give a romantic, carfree flair to their activities. “Gay” sounds better than pervert or sodomite. Does any of our native speakers of Spanish know exactly the word Pope Francis used?

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          He used the word “gay”. You can listen to him say it for yourself. So did the Archbishop of San Francisco use the word “gay”.

      • Anton L. Seidl says:

        The only word in Spanish that I know is “maricon”. It is a fighting word used to insult gays.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Maricon is like saying sodomite…..

          gay is a lobby activist word and to be honest it does mean to me pervert etc etc….

        • Men who engage in sex with men call each other “queer” which means – deviating from the expected or normal; strange. In fact the more deviant the behavior the more “queer” they are considered to be! Amongst queers it is a term of validation. Queers use the politically correct word “gay” when speaking to us normal folk to give the impression that their life style is a joyous one. They, however, understand just how “deviant” the lifestyle is.

          Place the words “queer associations” in a web browser and you will come up with numerous active “queer” associations, including the “queer student association”

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Tracy you are preaching to the choir…..I know what you mean…but “gay” is now associated with their agenda, activism…so to me it is now stained and I consider that word to mean pervert….it is a shameful word now…they stained it…any decent person now is disgusted to use that word….because of the homosexual activist behind it…I know what you are saying though but I can’t change how this culture has adopted to it…but we sane people do and we do not want to sound ignorant of that fact either….

            as much as we may want to return to those days where the word ‘gay” meant something good, those were the innocent years (I may not have been born yet but I do watch those good ole classic movies)….we are now dealing with something different…..The word “gay” is now used for their activism…but I do like how you are using the word queer because it is not a positive word but it can be used to describe their lifestyle choices…

  2. “Tenderizes”?
    I take it that the archbishop hasn’t closed down the gay churches? Perhaps the archbishop forgot the Sins that Cry to Heaven for Vengeance (1867), too. The article also doesn’t mention the gay-friendly, pro-abortion friendly Catholic schools in the area. Likewise, how about Nancy Pelosi, et al?
    I know there were great hopes for him when he took over the archdiocese, but little “action” has been seen.

    • Bob ‘Good Comment’. He will not close down any Church that is full every Sunday and keeps bringing the money in as the gay Churches in SF do. We found out in Oakland that when questioned by every day Catholics he had little, or nothing to say, about everyday problem’s the Church faces. What does the ‘original Bible’ of 2000 years ago say regarding Gays? This book has been changed so many time over these years that I believe it would be quite different than the one used today. I am not Gay but these individuals are entitled to live their lives as they seem fit and that lifestyle is between them and God!!!

      • Ryan, it is clear from this comment that you are poor educated in the Faith, particularly in the Sacred Scriptures. “This book has been changed so many time[s] over these years…” is a comment no educated scholar would make. The manuscripts of the Bible we possess show remarkable consistency over the centuries, it is by far the most common ancient document we possess. And yet despite all the various cultures, languages, and empires where it existed in ancient, the manuscript corpus shows relatively little corruption.

        • FrMichael – I am not nor do I pretend to be an ‘educated scholar’ but just an everyday Catholic very disappointed over the Church that I have been a member of for over 70 years. Sorry, but the Bible has changed in every respect over the centuries and it does not take a scholar to see this. What I learned from the saintly Brother/Sisters in my Catholic education is not there today whether you want to admit it or not.

          • vanityofvanitys says:

            Sorry Ryan, but Fr. Michael is correct on this point, you are not. Maybe what you state is correct in that what was being taught in Catholic formation classes 20 or 30 or 40 years ago is not there today. But that is not what you stated about the Bible. The Bible has not changed over the many centuries. Has not! And no doubt that is providential.

  3. Abeca Christian says:

    Sad how Archbishop Cordileone makes those statements about gay Catholics yet when I actually use to reach out to them, I actually came up with a different description. Archbishop I continue to pray for you and I ask you to please watch Archbishop Fulton Sheen’s talk on false compassion. The Archbishop gave vague examples it disregards the whole truth, maybe he just couldn’t go into details but it’s not some have been suffered, which is so complex, the parents and even their family members have suffered too. But if we are confident in the ways of the Lord, we can see that suffering can also be a treasure hopefully leading towards true conversion.

    Homosexuality hurts families, there is no question about it. What is most likely to happen is that homosexuals want their families to change and embrace them in choosing to live their homosexuality, instead of teaching the homosexual to be sensitive to the fact that families will have their own reaction. We need to teach the homosexual that is coming out, that they need to respect that not everyone will accept their choice outside of God’s plan. They need to be sensitive and respectful toward their parents, siblings etc. Especially since they were raised in a traditional upbringing.

    When dealing or interacting with homosexual Catholics….one must Armour themselves with the truth, the biblical and the church, so that we won’t be deceived into false compassion. True charity never compromises the truth. There are ways in dealing with any sinner, and holy scripture and church teachings can help us do it in perfect charity without ever compromising the truth or misleading others.

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      You’re kidding us right, Abeca? Many many of us will tell you that you are completely wrong when you say “Homosexuality hurts families, there is no question about it.” Some of us are lucky enough to live in families that understand that we are stronger as a family because we don’t keep secrets from one another. That to share one’s deepest self is the greatest gift we can be given by a fellow family member. That the whole family can be strengthened when one of them shares the love and commitment that they experience from their partners is spread throughout the family.

      On the other hand, when a parent or family pretends to be hurt when a kid comes out and rejects the kid because of their “hurt” – sometimes even being physically kicking the kid out of the home — and goes on to commit suicide as so often tragically happens. THIS hurts families. Rejection hurts families. A self-centered lack of compassion by the parent hurts families. Dishonesty hurts families. I could go on, but I think you get the point.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        No YFC I am not wrong…..but I won’t keep doing this same thing…arguing with you about it because you are living in a gay relationship right now and you refuse to understand. I find it horrible that someone would post what you just posted, the families are still suffering and even more to be accused of being the reason their kid committed suicide is just so insensitive and cruel to those parents. It is also not always the real reason for the suicide. It is complex. SIN COMPLICATES THINGS.

        If you read up on agenda driven facts, then of course you would draw to the conclusions that you keep addressing here, which are false and not helping our brothers and sisters who need real help and support.
        I use to post as another name too Almond Milk…..I have been posting here for a while and explained many situations as to why I draw my own conclusions and mostly of course, I really have no agenda, I seek truth. So I trust God to fill me with His gift to discern and it’s not so hard to discern that God’s natural plan is the truth….not the new point of views that people want others to honor in regards to homosexuality and Sodomy.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Abeca, get out of your shell and meet some real families with gay kids in them, families that love and cherish their gay kids. Try PFLAG. Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays. You will soon see that your broad comments that gays always hurt families is very far from the truth. Happy New Year to you!

          • Ann Malley says:

            Abeca is fine right where she is, YFC, as she keeps the focus on the Faith, not the secular agenda that would promote live, love, and laugh all the way to Hell fire.

            Perhaps you’ve gotten out of the shell a little too much.

            Happy New Year!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            YFC if its of any consolation to you…yes I have met some….even they suffer in secret. They may often avoid the thought but there are moment where they suffer in secret. Its not something ever discussed. That is why some refuse to hear the word of God because it would mean that they were wrong to condone it.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Thank you Ann Malley. You are right. : ) There is always those who tempt others to “get out of their shell”…..YFC read on what you said and see how it just isn’t a good way to make your arguments. Its arguments like yours YFC that hold no real standing. It may fly with you because you have already tried the “forbidden fruit” and you are angry because I don’t understand you. I want to empathize with you, I want to listen hear you but you keep denying important points to every post from this thread. Why you disregard the hurting parents here?

            Its like trying to figure out a rapist or a murderer. I know it may be different examples that do not match but somethings aren’t always meant for us to try.

            Our Lord warns us about trying things away from God and of those circumstances. I don’t want to hurt Jesus YFC. I have compassion for you but I don’t have any compassion for your free will to embrace the idol of homosexuality. I don’t. It does not save. Give us an example where you know that a person in such state is saved by their homosexual agenda? That agenda breaks many commandments from our Lord. Many! You the person does not have to embrace those inclinations. You are free to choose, just as much as another. If you love your partner, you will also help him get to heaven, you will break from that unhealthy relationship….

          • Abeca Christian says:

            I love Jesus YFC, my love is imperfect. Jesus loves us. I am grateful that His love is perfect so I can continue to learn to love better. I think that with all the years here on earth, no human can ever love like Jesus loves. Why? Because we are not perfect. So I have compassion for all parents, some love better than others but their love can not be perfect. But if they hold on to how God has shown us to love, as much as we try to do our best, then good parents hurt too when we see our children struggle with their relationship with God. We must trust God and also trust in the gifts God has given God fearing parents to apply.

            What I am saying is that I don’t doubt that what you are saying is true, that the example you gave me, I don’t’ doubt that those parents love their kids, they love them in their own way, the way they understand it, which is not always the right way, but they do still because human love is imperfect but let us not forget how our Lord has instructed us to love and His love is not by the standards of this world, no not ever.

            I hope you would stop being insensitive to those parents who love with Jesus being the first in mind, in front of that love, with Jesus as the beginning and the end….be sensitive to their hurt even if pride is leading that hurt, they are still human beings too….trying to please God and remain faithful to their faith.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          YFC what makes you think I haven’t? I also have met parents who love their kids but have orgies and dungeon parties, I kept wondering why I didn’t feel comfortable around that couple until I found out their secret lifestyle. They seemed such wonderful parent, they are active in sports, they run charities and I got a little suspicious when they were very concerned about mother earth, you know like in new age stuff. I guess you are interested more so in the worldly definition of love, I prefer the real definition, the one that saves. I am sorry that you don’t understand that.

          YFC whether those parents meet your definition of love…all in all, most parents love their children. But like any good parent who fears the Lord, will hurt even more especially when their child strayed away from God and that hurts good parents the most. But there is that verse that preaches about the prodigal son. There is also St. Martha’s love for her son…..etc. There is hope…..

      • Your fellow Catholic

        Are you a parent of a homosexual? Are you a parent? Just wondering.
        Your comments are the same False Compassion that the liberals like to use to make it alright to accept homosexual behavior. You are just another Cafeteria Catholic, I know because I used to be one. What if the son or daughter wants to practice prostitution in your home? Would you not tell them it is wrong and that if you are going to continue to do this you can no long live in our home?
        What about if your son or daughter of age wants to used drugs, steal? What exactly are you supposed to do when the child is of age and you can’t legally do anything to stop them except tell them they have to move out if they don’t stop? Suicide is with all teenagers by the way, not limited to homosexuals. Look at the world and you wonder why. This suicide thing is a false statement they push as well.

        Do you know how many would commit suicide because they don’t want to have these feelings and know it’s wrong, but they have people like you confusing them if they have families that are trying desperately, by helping them get out of the life and your subverting the parents by encouraging them?
        God help you!

        • Abeca Christian says:

          CJT you are correct…..there was a case of a young man who was confused about his sexuality, unfortunately he wound up in the wrong hands and was told that he felts that way because he was “gay” (yes that ugly word again, but that is the word they used on him). He felt more confused and then they gave him drugs and they had orgies…..when he went home, he caused so much chaos, his parents did not know what was going on. They were concerned, they tried to please him….their extended families told them “oh he is just going through a phase”…….they never knew that their son was confused nor experimented with drugs,…and the orgies made him more worst, that he hated himself, he felt unclean…he didn’t want to go to church anymore, he said that he hated God…but that was not true, he actually hated himself… ..well he didn’t have a good end….his family are still trying to find answers….it is a tragedy….all it takes for someone to go really bad, is to end up in the wrong hands and most of the time, the parents have no clue what was going on.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            For some reason our youth have the convictions to cover up their own peers, they will cover up any dangerous behaviors that one is leading into, which leads to their own experimentation as well….parents are at a loss, especially even more now too when teachers, even extended family cover up in the name of privacy. Good parents find them selves very lost, with no real honest support, everyone just looks the other way while their child just keeps going the wrong path with bad influences. Not all parents kick their kids out, but while they keep those troubled teens at home the younger siblings are being scandalized as well. There was a video of a teen giving pot to their 3 year old baby sister, she was so high and they were laughing. The parents trusted him to babysit, wow little did they knew….well luckily that video was found. That was a while back….so if a child at 3 was molested and then that trauma comes back to haunt them in their teens but they do not understand why or remember….I can see why a kid can feel confused. Its not because they are a homosexual, it could be just that trauma reappearing and good parents how are they suppose to know that while they were at a family gathering, a visitor or foe was molesting their kid in the backyard…..it happens quickly folks…those who are of evil mind like that are quick to fool and hurt. So most parents do their best…..just sometimes they don’t always know everything and when their child is in trouble, wouldn’t it be nice if people where of like mind to help that child and support those parents? Yes in a perfect world but not today…most people just help those children undermine their parents. Most parents love their children and want their best, some parents actually consider their salvation as well….that is when the devil acts up more…he hates the parents that are more concerned about their kids salvation!

  4. I Agree with Tom B.
    Sin is Sin, we are either with Jesus or we are not!

  5. We must treat all persons with respect.
    We must NEVER condone sin.

    If we truly love our Neighbors, we will want them to get to Heaven for eternity.
    “Admonishing sinners”, “Instructing the Uniformed”, and “Counselling the doubtful” are 3 Spiritual Works of Mercy.

    CCC: ” 1759 An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6).
    The end does not justify the means.”

  6. Richard B. says:

    Very well said ,Tom. We need more religious like Cardinal Burke to have a backbone and stand like Jesus, not like some of the bishops here in the USA.

    • Cardinal Burke, while steadfastly loyal to the teachings of the Church, always treats homosexual persons with love and compassion. Just like Archbishop Cordileone says in the interview “I think my teaching is clear. My teaching is out there.” Cardinal Burke is a kind, loving person who stands by the Church in all things. I am sure that makes him a lot of enemies on the left and the right.

  7. Fr. Richard Perozich says:

    These types of comments given to the press are used to promote homosexuality as good and normal. How about the parents who have suffered at the hand of their practicing homosexual children? This still is a mortal sin which divides the tender person from God, and which needs to be healed so that the Jesus who was conceived in the person’s soul can lead that person to the Father

    • How would any parent suffer at the hand of a homosexual child?

      • Oh … by the kid smoking dope, ditching school, fighting, getting speeding tickets etc. Just like straight children. Thank God most of us grew out of it!

      • Knowing that their child is disordered for one…

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Fr Richard you are right, I have seen parents so torn about it. You are truly right and I thank you for being compassionate to the parents and their families.

      • Peter,
        You have no idea what these children do when they are in rebellion do you?
        Some of us have this problem, You send your children off to a school you think is a Catholic school that teaches that homosexuality is fine. They come home an use emotional blackmail if you don’t accept this behavior. They continue to torture you by going on the INTERNET with other people like family members who don’t have homosexual children, who accept this behavior and they demonize you for not accepting this. You feel ashamed that your child wants to do this behavior and some people that don’t have one like this pushes this on you , but they wouldn’t want one for themselves?? They judge that your not a good parent, that you don’t love them, and when you try and explain the horrors of that lifestyle, the dangers that could kill them worse than any drug can do, you are treated like you are a pariah…. Men in general have a hard time with promiscuity, add two men. This has aged me and my husband 10 years. Has taken a toll on us physically and emotionally. For us was the sorrow of someone that we cherished, loved and took care of because at 5 he had brain cancer, now becomes of cancer of immorality and who is helping them stay that way? Ignorant Catholics, ignorant priests or homosexual priests…. We have tried everyway to communicate, sometimes we didn’t do so well, because the fear that we have. We came running back to our faith when my son started this journey. That is what good God had come out of this. We are no longer Cafeteria Catholics…. I have never seen my husband ever cry in his life, and this brought him to sobbing at the loss of our son’s innocence.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Hold your child dear to you. Don’t let anything, ANYTHING, separate you from your child. Didn’t Paul tell us that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus? Why, then should anything separate you from loving your child, from embracing your child, and keeping him close. Don’t let his being gay cause you to cast him from your house. Keep him close and dear, even if he is gay. Nothing, not even being gay, can separate us from the love of God, or from a parent who truly embodies that love.

          • Ann Malley says:

            YFC, while it is true that God loves us and nothing can separate us from His love for us, we often separate ourselves from the fulfillment of that love by choosing that which is against God – that is mortal sin, not just the inclination. It grieves Him, much like Our Lord showed when He lamented over Israel who he would have gathered to Himself like a hen with her chicks. That is why Our Lord offered Himself as a reparation for our sins.

            This is very often the scenario with parents and their children despite what you may believe.

            And homosexual sins aren’t the only grievous sins, YFC. There are adult children who manifest all manner of disordered, mortal sin and sinful behavior to which parents are forced to respond in a Catholic manner – that is, call out the sin, for the good of the sinner. And that’s danged hard, YFC. A lot harder than just saying it’s all okay and hugging your kids close. You have no idea.

            For even though we’d love to scoop our children close and let our love blanket them from reality, we cannot. Much like Christ cannot force you or anyone else to give up that which you choose in place of Him. He respects your free will. Parents must acknowledge their children’s free will too. Too often that free will is to blind themselves while running headlong toward damnation despite your love and hugs and acceptance.

          • YFC writes, “Nothing, not even being gay, can separate us from the love of God, or from a parent who truly embodies that love.” YFC, You are taunting God and your taunting is not because you want others to have compassion for homosexuals. You are lobbying for the full acceptance of the homosexual acts. Don’t risk losing your own eternal life by being unprepared and caught off guard, dying in the state of habitually committing grievous mortal sin.

            ‘Personal sin: offense against God, disobedience to the Divine Law’

            “Personal sin is an “action, word or desire contrary to the eternal law.”[1] Sin is a human act, since it requires the exercise of freedom,[2] and is expressed in external actions, words, or internal acts. Moreover, it is a human act that is evil. That is, it is opposed to God’s eternal law, which is the first and supreme moral law, and the foundation of all other law. In a more general sense, sin can be defined as any human act opposed to the moral norm, that is, to right reason illumined by faith.”

            “Sin therefore involves a negative stance with respect to God and, in contrast, a disordered love for oneself. It entails aversio a Deo et conversio ad creaturas, a turning away from God and a disordered turning towards earthly goods. The aversio of sin does not necessarily represent an explicit hatred of God, but rather the distancing of oneself from God, as the result of placing an apparent or finite good above mankind’s supreme good (conversio ad creaturas)….”

          • Ann Malley,

            That is a very beautiful response to YFC. Also, I wanted to let you know that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was offered yesterday for the special intention of your deceased father.

          • Ann Malley says:

            God bless you, Catherine, and thank you. Your continued kindness and forthrightness is edifying and so very helpful. Have a Blessed Christmas!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            YFC many parents hold their children and love them but many children push away…..holding them didn’t help that child appreciate their parents more…instead they just took them more for granted…..the chaos, disobedience, the lying etc didn’t stop.

            Mental disorders are hard to also acknowledge…when a child turns dark….they start to listen to heavy metal, they start painting their nails black….its getting worst……worst and worst….so those parents don’t have enough money to see a therapist but make the sacrifice and do…but then that child lies and says that his parents are abusive…the therapist has to report it even if its not true…..well those good parents are being persecuted and they are fearful…CPS comes in, its an embarrassment for the family, the smaller children are also being questioned, then they find that its not true, so they leave…they find no evidence of abuse. Then the rebellious teen starts being abusive….even on the younger siblings, there is a lot of arguing….so sometimes parents have to make tough choices by kicking out that teen…to protect the younger siblings because no one is giving them the right help…..I know of a few families who went through that…that is why I know personally how good parents are being persecuted….so the therapist didn’t help, only made things worst…the younger children where exposed to violence by their older sibling and when they wanted to get help, they were judged instead….sin complicates things especially more since mankind seems to be heading on a path where there is no common sense and common decency is being diminished!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Why even bother in sharing with you YFC, your not interested in the truth, you don’t even care what good families go through. It is truly sad…it just breaks my heart but it hurt more when I found out from a few “gay” activist, they never really cared nor sympathized with these families….I just felt that these families where put on unnecessary trials trying to appease those “gay” activists….they never cared one bit about those children like a parent does.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Dear Abeca Christian – I think the fact that 40% of homeless youth are LGBT says much much more about the parents than the kids. If you don’t find this number alarming, then I suggest you go visit with them in youth shelters. Talk to the staff. Ask how they got to be disowned by their own families.

        • CJT, I hope to comfort you and others by telling you that I believe the majority of families in California suffer through this in some form. Most have one or more such people in their families. Some have had a male on male molestation among their relatives which made some holidays just unbearable. One young homosexual man, older now and I believe practicing, is guardian to some children, which he admitted he is doing for the money. Another young woman, who had a male husband and children was bringing her female lover to family parties until some of us told her the lover was not welcome at ours. That woman was trying to break up the marriage instead of helping them hold it together. We still have good relations with that relative when we see her but she no longer brings the lover. Yes, families do suffer from this behavior, not that they do not suffer from heterosexual sins also. Some in the family were sending me and one of our daughters e-mail videos of LGBT Parades, censored of course, but nevertheless very seductive. We told them flat out not to send them. I very politely told the person that there was a lot of misinformation out their about the practice and listed off all the diseases and dangers from such acts. They are online, and there are many. Some try to emotionally blackmail us by threatening suicide which of course we do not want, but if one gives in and encourages such things, how would we feel if that person gets a horrible disease or bodily injury and dies from it. Not good; I would think. So hang in there and do what is right for your son and others. No one admires a push over.

        • CJT,

          Thank you for your very honest and informative post. I am sorry for the terrible hurt that you and your husband have suffered. I believe you when you talk about the multifaceted ways that others will look at you as if you are uncaring or not up with the times. It is so much easier to go along in the name of love than stand as the lone lighthouse shining the truth on a confused disoriented world. The devil derives great pleasure watching good parents suffer when their children act in a way that could cost them their soul. That goes for any sins that offend God. More than ever before at this particular time use your good and strong faith to place complete trust in God who always hears your prayers even though it may not always seem so. Keep up the rosary and continue as you have to place your son under the protective mantle of the Mother of God. In the measure you trust and it sounds like your trust is great, always remember that God cannot be outdone in generosity. Thank you again for having the courage to tell Peter the hurt that parents suffer with this particular cross.

          • Catherine, Anne T.
            Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts.
            May all of the people on this site have a blessed Christmas.
            CJT

        • Abeca Christian says:

          CJT God bless you….My heart goes out to you and your family. I am so sorry that it felt that the world was against you. Many families are torn. It is truly a tragedy. God bless you.

          I think what broke me the most was many years ago…a family suffered so many years of trying to help their son, as he experimented with drugs and sex with both sexes, but then was torn apart even more when a man much older than he, took in their son and was very abusive to him, then to watch him die from aids….that was heart breaking

          Families with morals do suffer a great deal, even parents who come to acceptance and even condone those lifestyles in their children, suffer inside in secret.

      • Peter,
        As the loving parent of a daughter who has recently moved in with her same-sex girlfriend, I would tell you that I am suffering the same way that I did when her big sister moved in with a young man that she was not married to. Both these girls remained dear to me…. and they were told that….but it makes me sad for them to buy in to the secular view of things and give up on their faith and morals.

      • Peter asks, how would any parent suffer at the hand of a homosexual child…my response: We KNOW the types of homosexual behavior, which is disordered sexual conduct, often brutal, unhealthy, and unnatural, we have a thorough understanding of that “world,” and it is not as portrayed in “Modern Family” and similar propagandized shows; many of us have children or loved ones who have been diagnosed with HIV and STD’s; some of us must constantly endure falsely empathetic hetrosexuals reduce our children to a sex organ; and most paramount, those of us who sincerely believe persistent violation of the body is an affront to our Creator, grieve for what our cherished children may lose for all eternity.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          So Pat, the answer it seems to me is to NOT reduce your gay children to sex organ. Treat them as a whole human being. Blessed by God from the moment of Baptism. And endowed by that creator with inalienable rights. If we treat our gay kids with dignity and respect, and respect their entire person, maybe they won’t engage in dangerous sexual practices. But if we treat them as a sex organ after they come out to us, well, then, we shouldn’t be surprised when that sex organ acts out in ways that might be detrimental.

          • YFC, you said, “If we treat our (Queer, i.e. DEVIANT) kids with dignity and respect, and respect their entire person, maybe they won’t engage in dangerous sexual practices.”

            YFC, are you referring to the notion that, if we follow your advice, our kids would more likely choose to remain pure before marriage and then, if married, remain sexually exclusive to their spouse unto death?

          • YFC, Pat never said that she reduced her son to a sex organ, but that others — falsely empathic heterosexuals — did that.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Anne T., you make a fair point.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Tracy, I’m not going to get into a conversation with a person about what respect and dignity means with a person who intentionally uses derogatory names for people. Clearly you don’t really have a grasp on the concept of respect.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            YFC my first question for your is “are you a parent?” ” do you have children?” because depending on what the answer is, it can be very telling….

          • YFC, this is my response to your Dec. 21st, 6:47 pm post. Your complaint that my referring to men who engage in sex with men as being “queer” is beyond disingenuous of you since queer folks still describe each other as “queer”! In fact, the more deviant, i.e. “queer”, one among them is, the more respected they are!
            Us normal folk are being sold a bill of PC excrement. The sexual world of “queers” is quite the opposite of gay, in fact it is beyond dark, bleak and sad. Even queers instinctively know this!

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Tracy, my complaint Dec 21 at 6:47 PM is hardly “beyond disengenuous”. I don’t use the word queer to describe gay people, and you have never seen me use the word. But it is not about whether I use the word or even whether some gay people use the word. The point is YOUR INTENTION when YOU use the word. And you cannot deny that you use it to be intentionally inflammatory and insulting. Just as you go on and refer to things like excrement. You use THAT word to be intentionally inflammatory and insulting too. You use the word deviant at 11:17 Am to be intentionally inflammatory and insulting.

            People who know what respect and dignity mean do not use inflammatory and insulting language to refer to other human beings. So I say again, you demonstrate that you have little grasp on the concepts of respect and dignity.

          • YFC, once again the definition of “queer” means deviating from the expected or normal; strange. The definition of “deviant” means one whose behavior differs from accepted social or moral standards. I am using the terms properly. The truth is that men having sex with men and women having sex with women IS queer or deviant. If my using correct terms offends you then so be it. I INTEND to continue doing so! The Pharisees were offended by Jesus, yet He never stopped speaking the truth.

            I think I made it very clear that queers DO NOT use the word queer with us normal folk. I am quite aware that you have not used the word queer on this site to describe men who prefer sex with men, as your goal is to try and convince us that you and your kind are gay.

            You will not deny that there are numerous associations which use the word Queer in their title, because there are. Just do the web search. You will find many. YFC, what kind of person do you THINK is a member of a “Queer” organization? If you are concerned about “respect” and “dignity” then castigate those individuals, not me.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Tracy, let me try again, as you seem to lack a grasp of not only respect and dignity, but also of logic. I castigate you because you are using the words “queer”, “deviant’, “excrement”, etc. as SLURS. When some gay people use the word “queer”, they are not using the term as a slur, but as a way to appropriate and attempt to neutralize what is commonly used as a slur against them. (You may be familiar with the history of the “N” word, and its appropriation by African Americans.)

            People use slurs against people who are not like them when they INTEND to show disrespect. They use slurs when they intend to deny a person the dignity they deserve as human beings. This is your intention too. This is why I castigate you because of the intentions behind YOUR use of these words.

          • YFC, are you saying that you can now read my heart?!!!!!! If you could, would you report me to the “Thought Police” and have me arrested? On what grounds?!!!! YFC, let’s stick to facts, as you so often insist upon for the rest of us. I use the words “queer” and “deviant” correctly. This FACT happens to upset you! You use the words “gay” and “marriage” incorrectly. This FACT happens to upset me! Let’s admit that we are mutually offended!

            At least now you are being partially truthful in admitting that queers DO use the word queer in describing themselves. By the way, do a web search of N___ Associations and you won’t find a one! Do a web search of Queer Associations and you will find many! Stop comparing Queers with African Americans!!!!!

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Tracy you know perfectly well that you use the word queer as a slur, not as a descriptive term. It’s perfectly obvious to everyone who reads your posts. Why can’t you just be honest about it? Why do you have to lie about it instead?

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Now you have done it YFC I totally understand Tracy and she is right to be upset, I agree with her…now look what you have done, you have upset many here of faith. The truth is Tracy is right and people who are wrong hate it when others are right.

          • Ann Malley says:

            “…Stop comparing Queers with African Americans!!!!!”

            Thank you and God bless you for saying this, Tracy. Merry Christmas!

          • We all grew up being taught this little ditty, “Sticks and Stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me!” We have foolishly believed this! Our enemies on the Left know full well that WORDS HAVE POWER! Even the Bible says as much. To that end, the American public are being told over and over and over again to accept the Left’s redefining of many words. At first we may not like the new definition being proposed to us, but I believe that we ultimately accept the new definitions and use them, by remembering that little ditty which we internalized years ago during our childhood. The problem with this is that the next generation is left with only having knowledge of the” new gentler, harmless word” given to them by our enemies! I am only proposing to reclaim our language! If our enemies were able to change the word, then we can change it back!!!! Just be prepared for a battle as the Left hardly gives up territory without a large ruckus, as YFC so predictably demonstrates! YFC, I for one am finished playing by your rules!

            Merry Christmas Abeca and Ann. Thank you both for your support.

          • Ann Malley says:

            It is an interesting and entirely valid point you make about that old song, Tracy. So in addition to your essential call to reclaim language, I propose war against those who would make themselves the ‘Lord of Language.’ (Gruel mongers, those that would extract all that is flavor or ‘salt’ from the gift of speech.) For not only does the Left seek to redefine words, but they also assert that they have the right/’moral’ obligation/duty to suppress what they determine to be hate speech.

            By what authority, I’d like to know, especially since they often discount God and the Bible and the Faith as this ambiguous ever changing entity that cannot be known. If that is so, then how can one define hate? Makes for an interesting debate if one can find an opponent who values logic.

            God bless! And keep up the good fight.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Pat thank you for your post. It is what I have seen throughout the years, but its nice to actually have honest parents like yourself share your experience. God bless you and I am so sorry for what you are going through. You conveyed very well…..

      • If the homosexual adult child turns his back on God for sexual practices, then indeed parents who naturally love the child suffer, becauase parents know the consequnces if there is no repentance. And they know that AIDS is a much higher percentage in the practicing homosexual population.

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Peter,

        In case you really want to know,which I highly doubt, such parents suffer the same way parents who have had their children succumb to any grevious way of sin, especially those who have had their children leave the Faith!

        May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
        Viva Cristo Rey!
        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
        Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          It’s a circular thing, isn’t it kenneth? Gay people, like me, are told on these very web pages, that they cannot possibly be a fellow catholic. That there is no hope for our salvation. That the Church has no room for us. Kids read these things that you all write here. They seek to be loved and accepted and sometimes they don’t find it in the Church. And they certainly wouldn’t want to be a part of a Church that calls them deviant, queer, sodomites, etc etc. So they leave the Church. So now the parents are surprised, hurt, and aggreived that the child has left the Church. But it should come as no surprise whatsoever when the child leaves!!

          If you tell us over and over and over again that we are not welcome in the Church, and say horrible horrible things about is, and then we leave the Church, stop complaining that we have left the Church!

          • Ann Malley says:

            Get over the glorification of sodomy already, YFC. Adulterers don’t like to be called as much. Fornicators don’t like to be called as much. Thieves, liars, etc don’t like to be called out as much – not when they desire/like the sin.

            Your obsession with homosexuals being some special group as compared to all the rest of us who struggle against sin is circular in the extreme. As for people leaving the Church, Kenneth wasn’t referencing the poor maligned person who won’t give up sodomy, but rather the poor maligned fill-in-the-blank that won’t give up his/her sinful behavior.

            You know this and yet you keep insisting on this ramped up emotional response intended to make a bad guy out of anyone who maintains a sequence of logic.

          • I am not complaining you are leaving the Church in fact I am overjoyed they are leaving, it means that less amount of corruption

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Ann Malley, please try telling that to homeless youth, 40% of whom are homeless because their parents couldn’t stand the fact that they are LGBT, or the third of teen suicide victims who chose to end their life because their family and sometimes their church rejected them for being LGBT. Ramped up emotional response? Where is your compassion for these kids, Ann? I think you are a better person than your post today at 1:38 PM would have us believe.

          • Ann Malley says:

            YFC, you are a better person and far more complex and intelligent than a good deal of your posts would convey. And yes, many children end up on the streets. It is a sad reality, but unfortunately, it is not something that can be fixed because of the ‘love’ you proscribe. The real time aspects of parenting children, those who persist in bad behaviors, is not as clear cut as ‘just love them,’ and ‘keep them close.’

            That is naïve in the extreme – unless you are of the bent to just get your kids a lock for their door when they get older so they can explore.

            As for the homeless youth, you may want to discuss realities with these homeless youths in conjunction with their PARENTS when determining the real truth behind why they had to leave home. Two sides to a story, remember? Leaving home and getting a taste of the harsh realities of being on one’s own, ill prepared, stubborn, unwilling to yield to the rule of law (any law, not just regarding homosexuality) is often the only way that some ‘kids’ will learn. Why? Because they reject the wisdom of their parents, the Church, God, or anyone who would try to impart common sense into their brain. IOW: They’re convinced they know it all. (That is not to say that there aren’t a portion of children kicked out of the house because their parents are just rotten – and that isn’t limited to kids with SSA)

            Get a broader perspective, YFC. Ask both parties (in the divorce) what happened instead of picking favorites, soaking up the spin, and then lashing out at parents who, sorry, love their kids. Far more at times than you could ever understand.

          • Ann Malley says:

            Also, YFC, you say that you have been told on this website that there is no hope for your salvation. That the Church has no room for you. Again, half truth, that is a LIE. You and your soul have been welcome, prayed for, counseled, admonished, and encouraged to no end. The sin/disorder of sodomical sex is what is rejected, discouraged, and called out as sinful and unacceptable. You know this.

            So stop misleading youth who read CCD. Stop spreading the lie that rejecting sin means rejecting the person. Stop spreading the falsehood that kids with SSA have no hope because they have no ability to control and or choose their destiny. Stop your insistent attempt to emotionalize the issue and drive a wedge between those who suffer with SSA and the Church that would help them overcome to the glory of God and the salvation of their own souls.

            Nobody is maligning you as a person and you know it. Your emotional spin that disregards the valid points of others while continuing to paint sympathetic any rejection of sin is nauseatingly predictable. It also speaks volumes about your true position regarding youth with SSA – that is, give up, beat down anyone (parents, Church, God Himself) who can help you overcome temptation, and embrace that which is sinful like the rest of us.

            That’s cruel, YFC. Despite all the bleeding heart pleas that you put forth about your caring for those with SSA – that’s just plain heartless. Stop it!

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Ann Malley you have a lot of nerve to say that I am lying about what I’ve been told on here. Excuse me, but I know perfectly well what I’ve been told, much better than you would know. And then for you to tell me I am lying!! You really have nerve.

          • Your fellow Catholic,

            I get it now, your living a homosexual life and think this is ok? Now I understand your comments.
            Just to let you know I love my child and hold him dear and all the men and women in the Courage conference who are Catholic’s and are living chaste life and some of them are my heros. May you find such happiness with the truth.
            God help you.
            CJT

          • Abeca Christian says:

            YFC I’m sorry that you mistook her charity for something ill but I assure you there is a huge heart of Jesus in her comments, not what you assume…

          • Ann Malley says:

            Thank you for your defense, Abeca. It is most appreciated. God bless you and Merry Christmas. I wish the same to you, YFC. And yes, I do have nerve. The nerve to reject your perpetual twisting of true love and compassion – that is the love and compassion being displayed here on CCD toward you. And the love toward those with SSA who you would mislead by your lies into believing that there is no hope for them when faced with temptation.

            Twist, pervert, lie and bait is what you’re doing when you attack the parents of troubled children. You know absolutely NOTHING about what parents suffer because of their children, nothing and yet you arrogantly toss blame and offer council. But it is all smoke and mirrors as what you suggest is empty – devoid of real-time council for parents who do love their children and thereby suffer a great deal when seeing them inexorably dive into that which will cost them their soul.

            Shame on you for seeking to divide children from their parents, from seeking to divide the faithful from the Faith with such petty, puffed up outrage. You say you’re worried about those with SSA who read CCD. If so, God bless you. But if so, ACT LIKE IT. And act from the standpoint of a parent, that is with loving authority that teaches truth instead of passing out the blame-laying rose colored glasses that – despite their pervasive hue – don’t change reality one darned bit.

          • If the sodomy fanatics left the Church, the altar boys would be much safer.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Ann Malley, it saddens me to see you turn away from the logical arguments you typically make to ad hominem attacks against me. Please consult the CCC regarding calumny, esp at 2477-9.

          • Ann Malley says:

            Well, YFC, if you being saddened means that you have finally tallied the numbers to discover that you’re not going to manipulate me with flattery – great. I am happy to disillusion you.

            That said, it saddens me to have to acknowledge that any flattery you sent my way regarding being logical was just that, flattery. A shallow, debate tactic and nothing more.

            That said, I suggest you leave the CCC (or rather your Pharisaical usage of it) 0n the nightstand and consult your conscience when disparaging good Catholic parents who lament over their beloved children’s defection from the Faith and common sense.

            Again, I say STOP your misguided affirmations that those with SSA are doomed to sin. They are not. And not because, by some freak twist of the ridiculous, sodomy will suddenly be branded as normal, healthy, and sacred. It can never be so affirmed, YFC, despite your desires. So stop lying to our youth! Stop promoting that which will never be! Your mixed message of bite the apple, even as you savor your own, is grossly damaging.

            That said, you may want to understand that if you cry calumny, your own actions/ statements will be taken into account, YFC. You are no innocent, not when you openly mislead and then cry foul. Be the man that you are and take accountability for what you do and say, YFC.

            Or else, get behind me Satan with all your talk of ‘logic.’ You know not of what spirit you are.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            God bless you too Ann M….Merry Christmas….

          • YFC, there is hope for your salvation, repent and sin no more. That’s what the rest of us sinners do.

    • Father…I am “good” because God created me and I was baptized. My being attracted to other women is “normal” for me and a small minority of women.

      My parents never “suffered” because of my sexuality (Though I put them through the ringer by smoking pot in school and getting suspended!)

      Maybe Archbishop Cordileone said what he said because he saw in the paper that a man who raped a woman in his former diocese because she was a lesbian got convicted and reflected on how some of us get treated.
      I think other priests and bishops could learn a lesson from him.

      • C&H, Did you tell us that you are a caterer?

        C&H, You have a free will to believe, think or act any which way you choose but the Church has clear teachings on homosexuality and your personal opinion, thoughts or feelings about what is normal for you does not change those clear teachings. You are posting here on this website because you DO want same sex attraction and homosexual acts to ultimately be viewed as normal for some and thus a good for some but they will never be C&H, no matter how many people in the world say that it is acceptable. C&H, Do those initials stand for you and another woman? If they do I know you will be proud to say yes because you say same sex attraction is a “normal” for you. C&H, We are given the free will to use our baptism promise and that baptism promise means that we will always work and strive to change our lives to conform to the Gospel which includes all Church Teaching. You and many others in this world are trying to change the Gospel and Church teaching to conform to the idea that same sex attraction is a normal for some and thus a good. I am pleased to read that your parents love you, perhaps one day it will be you who says, “Mom and dad, thank you for loving me but it was wrong of me to not defend the accuracy of Almighty God’s teachings. C&H do you tell your friends to ignore Church teaching because it looks like the world is coming around in accepting homosexuality as a normal and a good? Don’t be fooled by the wisdom of this temporary and passing world. It is more than foolishness to God, it is a mocking of God. C&H you are catering to the world instead of catering to the Revealed Truths of God. You know the wonderful experience of feeling the appreciation of having worked very hard to cater a large banquet. Do not risk losing your reward of experiencing the heavenly banquet of Eternal Life. God bless Father Richard Perozich for teaching God’s Truth’s first and not catering to the wisdom of the world.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Catherine God bless you for your charitable response to C&H. Again you show consistency in your faithfulness to Christ and His church.

        • Catherine. If you read the CCC, it says what causes our sexual orientations are “largely unknown” and that “homosexuality” i.e. “being gay” is not a sin. My point is that an amazing number of posters here either don’t understand or reject that part of Church teaching. Also too many non-Catholics have bought into that falsehood, especially those in the LGBT community

          Then there are people like Canisius who ,because he was treated badly by two lesbians, seems to hate all gay people, calls us “filth” wants to spiritually. I hope not physically, destroy us etc.. Archbishop Cordileone and Pope Francis are trying to comfort and bring the peace of Christ to both us gay people and people like Canisius too. Fr. Perozich ought to join their effort. Oh yes, I cater not to the “world” but to people who are God’s children in all our diversity.

          • C & H, being an alcoholic is not a sin. Being a drunk IS! Having same sex attractions is not a sin. Having same sex relations IS! Is this clear enough for you? Most of us posters here DO understand this! As for the others, there will always be disagreeable people in the world. While these individuals can be annoying, it helps to remember that oftentimes our Lord uses them to teach us patience.

          • I can assure you C&H the Pope and the Archbishop could care less about me, I do not fit the political groups they are trying to get support from…

          • C&H, You said it. You admit that you are catering to people first before you cater obedience to God. That IS catering to the world!

            A loan shark, a madam or a hit man could make that very same claim and think that it sounds good. …”I cater not to the “world” but to people who are God’s children in all our diversity.”

            C&H You are a baptized Catholic and there is much more than that fluffy broadminded statement. It is good though to see you use the CCC Second Edition.

            CCC 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

            C&H, Do you also support, defend and uphold that teaching?

          • Catherine, the way I was taught Catholicism, the world is God’s world and all people are God’s people. We read about the Pope “catering” to people almost every day. As for my own views on gay sex, at this time in my life it’s not a personal issue. However, having been in a loving, committed exclusive relationship with another woman where we tried to honor God, it’s pretty hard for me to say that all such couplings are sinful.
            I guess my answer to your question, in a forum where everyone is so darn sure of themselves is “I don’t know.” Anyway, a merry and blessed Christmas to all. In the spirit of the season, my next gig is a big American/British family reunion on Boxing Day!

          • C & H, I think the way you can start to find your way out of the ambivalence you find yourself in, is in addition to prayer and fasting, study the Heresy of Relativism. A Blessed and Merry Christmas to you and yours as well!

          • C&H,

            Thank you for your honest response of “I don’t know.” The Pope has not changed any of the teachings of the Catholic Church. The Teachings remain the same. Tracy gave you very good advice. C&H, Perhaps you can purchase a Miraculous Medal and have it blessed by a priest and wear it. Have a Blessed and Merry Christmas!

            THE WORLD
            This world and the world to come are two enemies. We cannot therefore be friends to both; but we must decide which we will forsake and which we will enjoy.

            Pope St. Clement I

    • ubipetrusest says:

      Thank you Fr. Perozich.

      • Fr. Perozich is a bigot that feels it is moral and proper to reject people with SSA from a social group that requires children not to engage in sexual acts.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Mr Editors why did you allow slander on a good priest to be printed…have you forgotten to do your duty. You allowed JonJ to post slander on a good priest…..

          NO JONJ you are the one….stop persecuting people of faith! SHAME ON YOU!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            This is why I do not like how this website is allowing slander on the faithful and on good priests, the editors should not have allowed a good and solid priest to be called a bigot! That is shameful, I question the integrity of this website once again!

            …JonJ truly is an activist for the “gay” agenda cause…he just makes me sick! I will pray for your soul jonj especially since you decided to attack a very devout and loyal priest….you messed with me sir when you decided to mess with good and holy priests, you will have to answer to God for that offense. Your dialogue is shameful….does not produce good fruit but what am i to expect from you, surely it is expected from someone who is of bad will!

            St. Steven pray for us especially for our good priests who are being attacked daily and for Catholic websites as well to not allow this abusive attack on good priests….

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Go to your confessor; open your heart to him; display to him all the recesses of your soul; take the advice that he will give you with the utmost humility and simplicity. For God, Who has an infinite love for obedience, frequently renders profitable the counsels we take from others, but especially from those who are the guides of our souls.

            St. Francis de Sales

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Reprimand and rebuke should be accepted as healing remedies for vice and as conducive to good health. From this it is clear that those who pretend to be tolerant because they wish to flatter—–those who thus fail to correct sinners—–actually cause them to suffer supreme loss and plot the destruction of that life which is their true life.

            St. Basil the Great

          • Abeca Christian says:

            To try to be charitable…I will try to give this website the benefit of the doubt…maybe they allowed that post to go through so our hearts can be moved with compassion and pray for our brother jonj…to pray for him and to expose his real heart. But wrong is still wrong and true charity does mean we need to rebuke those things against what is good and caring enough to point it out even if it means to admonish.

            Little does JonJ realize that what he posted against this holy priest, was not an attack on but only a cry out for help since he may be hurting or for whatever other reason. I can only feel more compassion for this brother of ours, and make my flesh love him more which drive us more to pray. I know that Father is praying for him too.

            JonJ you surely want to make saints out of us….due to your persecution….surely since I know that Father is a holy priest, he will pray for you and your attacks are only a path which lead towards sainthood for any priest seeking to please God…

            Like St, Steven, he was not popular in his times, he shared the truth and many looked down upon him, so they stoned him to death. Ultimately which lead him towards to sainthood due to his love for his fellow men and their salvation. Loving Jesus also demands of us to walk with Him and carry our cross. God have mercy on us all sinners…we have a long way before we can ever deserve to be present with Christ and His cross…long way.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Archbishop Cordeleone look what some are doing to our priests who speak the truth and try to guide the lay faithful…..they are being called names by those who lack the understanding of their own sins.

            Its like walking in a dirty old public bathroom, where you will find graffiti of someone writing someone’s name and slandering the poor soul. I guess acts of injustice are also allowed to be graffiti in these walls of cyberspace.

  8. If Cordeleone is learning anything about the sin of homosex, are any of the gays learning something truly Catholic from him?

    Did he teach them that homosex is immoral and that they need spiritual help?

    Or is Cordeleone slouching to Gomorrah?

  9. “They’ve been harmed and they want to come to a place that will accept them for who they are. And affirm them. So it tenderizes us.” They have done the harm to themselves by CHOOSING to commit these mortally sinful homosexual acts! “a place that will accept them?” No, not accept them. They want the Church to accept their mortally sinful homosexual acts as normal. The Church will always accept them, just not their homosexual acts. The Church welcomes sinners, but cannot and will not ever accept their homosexual actions. “affirm them?” Affirm them in their actions, NO! “tenderizes us?” God and His Church does NOT tenderize sin! God will NOT be tenderize or mocked!!

  10. Mchicha Wacheza says:

    I am not waiting for the Archbishop to change his teaching on the immorality of the situation.

    But to convert people, you have to speak with them, you have to treat them as Christ would treat them.

    His work as Archbishop is to love and Teach, bring people to the Faith. that cannot be accomplished by harshness.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      But one must be careful not to compromise the truth because it can hurt those of faith, those who hold convictions close to Christ. If we hurt and scandalize just to appease a group that is choosing to sin, then we are not edifying the good that people have always known in regards to the natural law. Instead one can more confusion.

      Same sex attraction may be a disorder, for that we can have compassion for persons having to deal with those things but we can not respect nor have compassion for the sexual acts that are immoral. Sex is an act….one can learn to obey God and live chaste.

      • Again, let’s suppose the Bible and the Church are completely right about homosexuality.

        Let us also recognize that, 400 years ago, there existed no knowledge with regard to inter-sexual conditions such as genetic mosaics, (people with cells that have a mixture of XX and XY chromosomes), Klinefelter’s syndrome, other conditions where people have proper sex chromosomes, but suffer from developmental issues which makes them appear to be the opposite sex. To some extent, such individuals can be treated if they are identified.

        What happens if such individuals are not identified? What happens if they express, or feel, what appears to be same sex attraction but is, in fact, heterosexuality? The point is, the way we treat homosexuals should keep in mind there might be similar such conditions that have yet to be identified by our science, and that they are, in fact, acting according to their nature.

        Thus, we if we are treating homosexuals in such a way that people with hidden inter-sexual conditions are being treated abusively, we are not treating homosexuals in a moral fashion.

        Now, the blunt truth here that most here don’t want to accept, is that homosexuals were not treated properly in the recent past. Not so long ago, when Christian morals dominated jurisprudence and society used social pressure, rejection, and exclusion to enforce submission to Christian norms, so called “moral” officials looked the other way as police battered and abused patrons of gay bars for entertainment.

        Employers fired gay employees due to the “shame” of having such an individual associated with their organization. Catholic schools ignored their students openly hurling all manner of verbal abuse at homosexuals on a frequent, and regular basis (as happened in my Catholic high school with nary a word of opposition). My friends talked openly of going to various “gay hangouts” and beating them up for entertainment.

        • There are numerous cases of emergency medical personnel refusing to treat cross-dressers or transsexuals because they discovered they were not wearing gender congruent clothing. These so called medical professionals simply watched them die due to their disgust. There is a video you can find on the internet about brokerage firm Cantor Fitzgerald discovering an broker intern was homosexual. They sent him by plane to an out of state office for “training”, while executives stole his car, painted it black and white with slurs like “fudge packer” and “butt pirate” and made a video of themselves speaking in falsetto while wearing paper bags over their heads, about how to recruit gay customers in cold calls—filmed in the home office where the guy had been working. They over-nighted the video to the “training” center, and played it for him when he reported for his scheduled instruction. Because it was legal to fire an employee for being gay, and they could not identify the individuals involved, the person had no legal case against Cantor Fitzgerald.

          What you must accept is that the current backlash against Christian beliefs about homosexuality are rooted, in part, in such immoral behavior at the hands of so-called “Christian” people.

          When you ignore this reality, you’re ignoring the lesson of how sin comes home to roost. Satan takes rightful objections and twists them into immorality—and thus we have homosexual advocates going too far (such as the Massachusetts “education” reading list that recommended a “Man/boy love” book as reading material for grade school students). So Archbishop Cordileone is correct in attempting to understand what the gay people under his pastoral care are going through.

          It’s also a warning about how attempting to enforce Catholic values through immoral means, and ignoring abuses against sinners leads to even worse immorality.

          • jonJ, If everyone learns their Faith by reading the Bible and the CCC, and lives accordingly, then there would be no confusion.

            Stereotyping – which you are doing – does not help anyone.
            There are sinners in ALL organizations including but certainly not limited to Churches.

            No good Catholic attempts to enforce Catholic values through immoral means – so your statement is FALSE.

            The CCC clearly states that we are to respect all human beings.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            ANDY I would find better words to describe what jonj is doing..I wouldn’t use stereotyping….that was kind of you to just use that word, for there are far better words that would fit his behavior.

            its a good think I am a Catholic Christian, a lady or else I would freely use the right words to describe his actions here…especially his wicked attack on a good priest.

          • JonJ

            What is a bigot? You attack a faithful priest that is a hero. But your the bigot and hateful one. You have the same stereotypical garbage full of lies and half truths. What about the poor women that was trying to help a young man out of that life who was a faithful Catholic and showed him love and he murdered her? They found her cut up into pieces. Never hear about the violence toward anyone but the homosexuals. What about the trans-genders that pretend to be a women and then the man they want to have sex with finds out he has been tricked? Ever watch a gay pride parade and the perverted behavior around children? How about when they passed a bathroom bill in Mass that is going to allow anyone that feels like a different gender are able to go into the opposite bathrooms ? You think children should be exposed to this? Bet it will be more men wanting to be women to do that. How do you think that is? The perversions that are going on are an abomination and yet you wonder why there is so much violence? Now the homosexual activists spew even more venom at people who just disagree with them, and like you complain about the same things. So please… your a hypocrite. Don’t expose yourself to evil because you put yourself in danger. That is the reality of the world. Use common sense. The world isn’t getting any better with all this acceptance, but worse. Homosexuality as well as all immorality is ruining this world and you never count the cost of the children that are exposed. The families that are broken up because of there child that has sexual confusion being influenced by homosexual activists that don’t care about anyone but themselves. Hollow wood is part of the problem. Why don’t you get off your hypocritical soap box. Homosexuality is not a race, it is not a color, it’s a behavior.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            CJT you seem to be poorly educated about human sexuality and gender identity. I don’t say that to be critical, because it isn’t all that easy to get educated on these things, but I do urge you to seek out truly objective sources and find out what the current state of science is on these things.

        • Ann Malley says:

          JonJ, I’m sorry for your experience. Nobody should advocate going out to beat up anybody on a lark. That said, it is still paramount that the sinful nature of disordered sexual relations be called out – especially when rearing children.

          Also, it wasn’t just submission to “Christian norms” that advocated rejecting that which is inherently different and/or against nature. Abuse and oppression have been around since the beginning of time as it is part of human nature to dominate (exert one’s own will).

          • Oh, imho there are always cruel people who will use whatever norm you create as a pretext for their cruelty. The dilemma comes in when people of good faith end up saying nothing, or doing little, because they don’t want to advocate sinful behavior.

            Affirmation by inaction creates a justification to strike back—and can be used by evil as the core of righteousness around which they can inflame people toward bad acts. So how you handle such situations is both tricky and yet, important.

            I don’t mean to say I was any different than my peers in high school. I was just as bad. I followed the culture. We were an all-male high school and took a lot of crap from around the city that only gay guys would want to go to school there, so the students pretty much bent over backwards to assert “we aren’t gay” through constant verbal gay bashing.

            In retrospect, I realized how wrong that behavior was, and it had to be very harmful to anyone who might have been struggling with their sexuality. It certainly wasn’t christian, or catholic.

            That’s why I believe that we must treat even the lowest criminal slime with a certain dignity, simple because of the damage that we inflict upon ourselves for violating those standards.

          • Ann Malley says:

            “Affirmation by inaction creates a justification to strike back—and can be used by evil as the core of righteousness around which they can inflame people toward bad acts. ”

            This is very true, JonJ, as Satan prefers to mask evil as good, that is a temporary good. i.e. Protection of women/children in the push for women’s rights, protection of the victimized homosexual in the push for ‘marriage’ equality, and helping the poor rape/incest victim in the push for abortion – especially that without parental notification.

            That is why it is so disheartening to see Catholics (who should know better) advocate for that which is secular, promoting all manner of things that go against God’s laws in the supposed name of peace and social justice. That is also why, while I agree with your statement that even the lowest criminal slime should be treated with a certain dignity, it is imperative to communicate God’s Truth. Because it is precisely the dignity of man that is affirmed in the teaching of it. (We don’t preach the Gospel to animals for it is not suited to their nature.)

            Even so, when a person or persons vehemently reject Truth and advocate vociferously for that which is against God’s law/will (the very will that raised men above the level of animals), thereby scandalizing the weak who might otherwise seek help in their suffrage, those proponents of degradation need to be called out. Firmly. Charity, in that instance, calls for taking the gloves off. Much like Christ seemingly took the gloves off when scolding those in the position to mislead others into grave sin.

          • Ann Malley says:
            December 28, 2013 at 7:25 am

            “That is why it is so disheartening to see Catholics (who should know better) advocate for that which is secular, promoting all manner of things that go against God’s laws in the supposed name of peace and social justice. ”

            Ann Malley, Your entire post is excellent and the quote above is so very true. Many who know better have become very lax and chosen the broad road path of lease resistance in order to go along with the current flow.

            “Only a live fish can swim against the current, the dead go with it.”

            “Our Lord commanded us to forgive our enemies, but not to have none.”

            “Courage is almost a contradiction in terms. It means a strong desire to live taking the form of a readiness to die. – G.K. Chesterton

          • Ann Malley says:

            Dear Catherine,

            Thank you for your encouragement!

            That said, you point out that, “…Many who know better have become very lax and chosen the broad road path of least resistance in order to go along with the current flow.”

            This is so true and yet even still it is hard to blame many. Too often those who should be encouraging us upstream where we can bear fruit are the very same playing the sleepy time music and bidding us back to sleep. (That is surely what occurred with my Dad… thanks again for having Mass said for him. Your charity will not go unrewarded, I know.)

    • You’re right. We all want to change this world, but we can’t force our way onto the world. It’s hard enough to make even one person change. It’s hard to change myself even. But you don’t change a person by silence either.

      And just personally, I’m beyond sick by Catholics who swallow the gay ideology or heresy or whatever we want to call it. Please all, don’t fall into dualistic thinking. You don’t have to wave the rainbow flag and you don’t have to live like a monk. The world is not so black and white. God understands our temptations but no one is tempted by the flesh to support the gay ideology. If you have same sex temptation I urge you to form your mind to the Church and not to the gay ideology.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        AMEN TO WHAT MARKF just encouraged many who suffer with same sex attraction….he is right…he truly loves you and is encouraging you to form your mind in Christ and His church not to the gay ideology! He is right on!

      • God bless you, Mark F. Have a very, Merry Christmas.

  11. The Archbishop is doing the right thing by reaching out. Jesus was criticized for “eating and drinking with sinners”, too. We must all reach out in life, even if we disagree with decisions made by some of the folks we meet along the way.

  12. St. Christopher says:

    “Tom B.”: is correct. The Church must mean one thing, and it is not difficult to understand. Complete and abiding love, and the promise of salvation for those that repent. John the Babtist cried out for sinners to repent. Jesus Christ spoke of the certainly of Hell for those that did not change their lives (something about “taking up your Cross and following Me”). Jesus also forgave all manner of sin, usually by also adding “sin no more.” Homosexuals that have sex with members of the same sex, without exception, commit mortal sin. The words by Archbishop Cordileone are puzzling, except that he might be worn down by homosexual activism, or perhaps he is seeing the writing on the wall with Pope Francis regarding any sort of moral “bright line.” Better to be fired, good Archbishop, than compromise the teaching of the Faith. Certainly go out among the group of sinners (that is active, sexual, homosexuals) but preach the need for reprentance, and for reconciliation with the teachings of Christ and His Church. Now, if this understanding is wrong, then all manner of things need to be changed. And, the liberals win as there is no real sin (except sexism, homophobia, hating the Designated-Hitter rule, that sort of thing), no Hell, and everyone is fine in the end. Futher, if this is correct, than most of us should completely stop going to any Catholic Church, or, if you must go, stop putting anything in the collection plate. The Church is superfluous (and hypocritical) in that its real reason for existence — to assist in attaining salvation — no longer matters (and was wrongly understood to begin with). Remember that many, many of those in power in the Church do not believe much of what it teaches. And, they have only a political understanding of what the Church stands for. I guess these good clerics are very happy with A&E’s recent suspension of Phil Robertson of “Duck Dynasty” for calling homosexual sex immoral and inconsistent with Christianity. Well, it is, isn’t it? If so, aren’t homosexual sexual persons guility of obvious sin? And isn’t the Church’s failure to confront this sin, and its public manifestations a scandal of major proportions? If not, then let’s stop the silliness of going to Church, and especially supporting it, and its bloated clergy, in various ways. We are all pagans, after all, so put that pinch of incense in the current political God’s offering brazier and all is well and good. Happy Saturnalia!

  13. Elizabeth M. says:

    He should come to the next Courage Conference and meet the heartbroken parents and families of those in the SSA lifestyle to see and hear the abuse that these families receive from them.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Thank you Elizabeth. It is a truth that many do not want to hear or expose.

    • Elizabeth,

      I’d like to hear what these families tell you. I’m always interested in hearing these real stories that are not from the media.

      • Mark F
        A common theme is that the parents are threatened with never seeing their children again; I.e. you don’t do what they want and go against your beliefs and attend their ceremonies and treat them like a couple you are out of their lives. You are put in the position of choosing between them and Jesus.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        MarkF if you scan above the posts, you will find a couple posts that share their experience and how much they do suffer. It is a very heavy cross because they really love their fallen away children. Its sad that most are not sensitive to that fact, that when a parent loves and also is a God fearing parent, that they suffer so much more than someone who was lukewarm.

      • Elizabeth M. says:

        Mark F
        The most common threats the parents get are that if they don’t go along with this lifestyle and accept these relationships and participate in these commitment ceremonies they will never see them again. Some also demand that they leave the Catholic Church because of its teachings. What it comes down to are making a choice between Jesus and their children.

    • Hello Elizabeth, maybe you or one of the EnCourage members could post something on this site……maybe the recent letter to the Pope that your group sent? Maybe something from Fr. Paul Check? Many don’t understand the pain of people caught in the SSA lifestyle, nor what committed families to Christ go through. My prayers go out to all Courage and EnCourage families.

  14. Michael McDermott says:

    Dear Bishop Cordileone

    The CCD story about your KQED Interview and being “Tenderized” by stories of “Suffering” – presented at Holy Redeemer Church (where my parents were Married) – failed to mention that this Church was the one Spray Painted with Swastikas and Slurs Against the Pope by the local Gaystapo during their attack on Marriage.

    Hence I ask you provide Time & Place to Also hear from those of us Catholics Targeted by this Gaystapo – who have been Stalked, Hounded, and Retaliated against in many ways (including destruction of Career & future employment) for supporting the common sense Teachings of the Church?

    While the Pathological Behaviors being pushed are ‘too icky’ for many to discuss, although the consequences of said behaviors and their associated diseases have vectored from Frisco for decades now – I submit it is Time to Openly and Clearly Address them.

    Using Gastapo Propaganda terms (like abusing the Happy Word ‘Gay’) Confuse the Issue with tenderized / sanitized and misleading euphemisms for Bad Behaviors.

    Those properly opposed to Pandering to such agendas will continue to be defamed and demonized – At least by those seeking to Destroy the Church Teachings on Sex and Gender, who will twyst anything (including your words) to harm us.

    The Annual Tax Subsidized Anti-Male Hate Riot / ‘SF Dyke March’ starts at Mission Dolores…
    –Spreading MISANDRY (Separatist / Neo-Exterminationist Hatred of Men & Boys, Masculinity and Normal Heterosexuality) under the pretense of such ‘tolerance’ too:

    “Women Rule the World… Create A WORLD DEVOID OF MEN”
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/27/BAG0T7D1LT1.DTL

  15. We must not fall into the trap that consenting ADULTS are not responsible for their own actions.
    Most of us can come up with excuses for our own sinful activity. Almost everyone can come up with good sob stories.
    We know that we CONTROL our own ACTS (with the exception of the mentally insane).

    There are no good excuses for MORTAL SIN. And I hope that Abp Cordileone teaches everyone that.
    Sexual mortal sins include: homosexual acts, adultery, fornication, masturbation, and pornography.

    • Consenting Adults choose to act or not to act.

      We choose Heaven or Hell by ourselves.
      We can not blame others for our own sinful behavior.

  16. It is truly amazing reading the homosexuals and their sympathizers comments. Notice how their erroneous refuting comments twisting biblical interpretations are self-centered and not God centered.

  17. John Feeney says:

    YFC, I agree with you that being a homosexual is not a sin. We all wrestle with some kind of demon. I do have a question. Do you condone or condemn homosexual sex?

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      My opinion about the matter is irrelevant. The Church’s position on homosexual sex is abundantly clear and widely known.

      • YFC writes, “My opinion about the matter is irrelevant.”

        YFC, Selective irrelevance is not becoming to you either. Your opinions that undermine obedience to God are irrelevant too but that has never stopped you. The Church’s position about leading others into committing mortal sin is also abundantly clear and extremely relevant.

        “The salesman knows nothing of what he is selling save that he is charging a great deal too much for it” — Oscar Wilde

        • ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

          Jeffery A. Tucker. “Oscar Wilde, Roman Catholic.” Crisis 19, no. 1 (April 2001).

          “‘My heart is weary ”

          “In the end, however, Christ did not turn Wilde out — despite his sins, his unconscionable behavior toward his wife and two sons (the scandal of his trials had alienated them from him), his self-deceptions and deceptions of others, his vanity and pomposity, and all the other character failings that he wore so conspicuously on his sleeve. Only on the day before he died, and only thanks to the intervention of Ross — the man who had so often discouraged his conversion and who later downplayed it — and the priest whom Ross had found one week earlier, did Wilde finally receive any sacraments other than the baptism he was given secretly as a young boy.

          And only at the last possible moment did Wilde finally embrace the One who was truly his lifelong lover. In his stricken silence at the end, he might have recalled his 1881 poem, “San Miniato”.

          continued:

          • continued from above post : December 23, 2013 at 11:43 am

            ‘San Miniato’ – by Oscar Wilde

            See, I have climbed the mountain side
            Up to this holy house of God,
            Where once that Angel-Painter trod

            Who saw the heavens opened wide,

            And throned up the crescent moon
            The Virginal white Queen of Grace Mary!
            Could I but see thy face
            Death could not come at all too soon.

            O crowned by God with thorns and pain!
            Mother of Christ! O mystic wife!
            My heart is weary of this life
            And over-sad to sing again.

            O crowned by God with love and flame!
            O crowned by Christ the Holy One!
            O listen ere the searching sun
            Show to the world my sin and shame.

      • YFC ““My opinion about the matter is irrelevant.” Your opinion will be very relevant when you close your eyes for the last time….

    • “Your Fellow Catholic” YFC – answer the question.
      Do YOU CONDONE or CONDEMN HOMOSEXUAL SEX ? ? ?

      “good cause” please also answer the same question.
      Do YOU CONDONE or CONDEMN HOMOSEXUAL SEX ? ? ?

      • Michael McDermott says:

        TED – Your questioning of the Anonymous Trolls who regularly trash this board (and the Church as a Whole) is futile.

        They will continue to Hide the Facts of the Physically Harmful / Pathological Disease Spreading BEHAVIORS that are the Common Core of the Shared Fixation – because such Facts are simply ‘too icky’ to deal with, and interfere with their anonymous trolling and bullying agendas.

        The US Center for Disease Control may refer to such Behaviors as ‘MSM’ – Men having Sex with Men – but the Reality of the Homo-Anal Coprophile ‘Conga Line of Buggery’ (Quoting Will Self, Author of ‘Dorian’ – a novel of the age of Aids) has trashed the Health System and threatens Breakout of ever newer treatment resistant strains of such Bugs…

        In to the larger ‘linear’ population – to use one of their Straight Up Slurs regularly employed as a propaganda tool to Gaily ‘De-Ick’ the Pathology they have no actual answer for.

      • We are all waiting for the answer from YFC, and good cause.

    • Mr. Feeney, he will not give you a direct answer

  18. Ultimately what matters in the end is pleasing God not ourselves or our sinful passions. Our Lord is the one to give glory, homage, and love to first of all to enter the kingdom of heaven, not mankind, nor permissibility to mankind to offend God to please our fellow man with their sinful passions. St. Paul makes it very clear in his epistle to the Romans Chapter 1 verses 26 through 32.

    If we truly wish to enter heaven with God we must love Him and stop offending Him. The homosexuals have deceived many by misquoting under the pretense to love our fellow man but ignoring God’s laws and His justice when they promote homosexuality. They will be surprised to find God’s dissatisfaction for their sinful and chosen behavior at their final judgment.

    If we truly love one another, than we all want the best for each other, especially to live eternally with God the Father, His Son, the Holy Ghost, His Blessed Mother, the Angels and all the Saints in Heaven. To get there we must obey God, like it or not. To show our love for our sinful brothers and sisters, we admonish them and pray for their conversions not sympathise by permitting, helping, and encouraging their sins, for that will only lead to their eternal demise in hell, but our also. Again read St. Paul’s epistle to the Romans Chapter 1 verses 26 through 32, in the most accurate of all Roman Catholic Holy Bible translations, the Douay-Rheims Holy Bible.

  19. Abeca Christian says:

    No one wants to listen. There must be many people who want to be miserable. The saddest thing to me is when the truth is right in front of our very own eye’s, that many will just not see it or will avoid it or what have you.

    Its not like no one has said anything, it’s not like people have not tried, it’s not like we are all dead. Although those in darkness want to suppress the truth, turn off the light of Christ. What is it to be really alive? Could spiritual blindness also make us amongst the walking dead? None of the comforts of this world will be able to open the gates of heaven for us, none! We walk as if we are eternal. We must not take for granted that everything here on earth has it’s end. Its best to live this life in the light, truth of Christ, not in the utter ugly darkness that consumes the flesh/soul.

    • Abeca Christian,

      You make so many valid points, These arguments that homosexuals, ( they are not gay, made up word and perverted the word happy), are the same tired arguments used by the activists in the quest to remove the guilt from there minds if they can get everyone to agree with them. I will die fighting this propaganda, that helped my son in his confusion think this is ok. Homosexuality is what they have become. Before they were just a person with a temptation (inclination) of Same sex attraction. Just like someone who has a temptation to get drunk to the point of irresponsibility. They are not a race, another lie they are trying to push.
      If anyone claims to be a Catholic or even Christian, if they read ROMANS 18, PUNISHMENT for IDOLATRY 18-32 they could read the truth for themselves.
      St. Paul in the New Testament makes it pretty clear that men with men and women with women are wrong. Paul teaches us that God was very specific.

      It is pretty clear, that when we won’t accept the truth and replace it for a lie, God has justice.
      In the next reading God Just Judgment, ROMAN 2 1-11
      When all these so called gay and gay friendly people, PPH,(People who practice and or promote homosexuality), who judges us Catholics as these mean people and causes others to sin as to agree with them and yet they do the very things that they complained about us, even worse, like SS Marriage, then God will have a just judgment. God expects all of us to repent and when we fall we run to confession and by the grace of God he will set us free.

      Unfortunately , they don’t love God, for if they did, they would acknowledger the need for help and repent, but they love themselves first and that is the idols that they have become. If you have SSA, or want to get out of the homosexual life, call the Courage ministry they can help you.
      GB

  20. Our Archbishop, Salvatore Cordileone, is making a conscious choice to visit the parishes of our three counties, staying three days in each parish.
    I greatly admire him for taking such an important and time-consuming step, one I’ve never heard of before!
    I didn’t know he had also visited Most Holy Redeemer in the Castro District, but I’m not surprised: he and the other Bishops of our archdiocese go all over the place, including prisons for Christmas Mass, so they are not just hanging out with the rich people, the right people, or the perfect people.
    God bless him for reaching out to all segments of his flock!!!

  21. Many parents of actively practicing SSA children will have to choose between the Eternal love of JESUS or the temporal love of their child, that is the only choice they have. Their SSA child has made his/her choice disregarding their parents love. Keep praying and loving their children back to the narrow way of JESUS!

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Amen to that Edward…we need to support these parents because they will most likely face persecution as well.

  22. thomas nawn says:

    with all the talk about sin only god knows who is a sinner, gay men do not rape women, if you are really catholic you will follow pope francis who are you to judge this blog borders on something out of somewhere, now in utah one of the most conservative states has approved same sex marriage, i know some gay men who are saints giving of themselves. believe me more straight women and men on this blog are hypocrites, i am 75 and when i see god i will tell him i support gay people, our lord never rejected any gay person, and would i want to spend all eternity with peoiple who reject others for who they are

    • thomas nawn, you said that “merry and lighthearted” men do not rape women. This is most likely a true statement. You also suggest that some “merry and lighthearted” men are saints. This IS a true statement! I have never entertained the thought, however, that a rapist might be a “merry and lighthearted” fellow! What I do know to be a FACT, however, is that QUEER MEN do RAPE MEN! They also rape women!

      Queer – deviating from the expected. Strange.

    • thomas nawn. you do not know the words of Pope Francis.
      We do not judge individuals but we must never tolerate sin.
      We must not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgement- Jn 7-24.
      There is a truth and a lie, a right and a wrong.

      For more information about the beliefs of Pope Francis and the Catholic Church, read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.

      ” These, then, are the four elements which comprise the storehouse of memory which the Church hands down: the profession of faith, the celebration of the sacraments, the path of the ten commandments, and prayer. The Church’s catechesis has traditionally been structured around these four elements;
      this includes the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is a fundamental aid for that unitary act with which the Church communicates the entire content of her faith: “all that she herself is, and all that she believes”. “ – Pope Francis (Encyclical Letter LUMEN FIDEI, 2013)

    • Thomas Nawn,

      Where do you read that the Pope changes the church’s teachings?
      I really think you need to stop and think how ignorant your statements are.
      I don’t think the Pope understands the whole aspect of homosexuality by his comments, they do not have a orientation, it’s not one, but an inclination, but never the less, he didn’t say we shouldn’t judge bad BEHAVIOR. But judge a person as bad because he has the inclination and who is living their lives in good will, which would mean, trying to be holy. What he said wasn’t on the chair of Peter, the Pope can and has made mistakes, by his own admission, but one thing he emphatically said, he is the son of the church. Which means he goes by her teachings and he is obedient to those.

      If anyone is judging it would be you and then who is the real hypocrite? Have you taken the log out of your eye? (Repented, living a holy life) The very thing you say people should not do, you do.

      Read things in context and make sure it’s not a liberal station that is distorting what he says. He mentions this about the media doing this in his exhortation if you care to read it. It’s a few hours long.

      Your going to tell God to accept something against what he created? Don’t forget he called it an abomination. The act. God doesn’t change. Are you God?

      • Same Sex Attraction is a temptation for some.

        Homosexual ACTS are Mortal Sins,
        as are adultery, abortion, contraception, purposely viewing pornography, and euthanasia.

        CCC: “1868 Sin is a personal act.
        Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
        - by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
        - by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
        - by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
        - by protecting evil-doers.

        There are Mortal SINS of commission (performing the act), and of omission.
        When examining our conscience before we go to bed each night, we must think about our sins of omission as well, ask for God’s forgiveness, and promise not to commit those sins again.
        And then get to Confession asap.

  23. padparadscha says:

    Merry Christmas everyone!…God bless you all…and have a blessed New Year

  24. Elizabeth M. says:

    Thank you CJT! I think that I’ll scream if I hear that quote misassigned again. It seems that so many people are using it to justify everything and anything that they’re doing. They’re taken it totally out of context.

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