Behind Behind the Candelabra

San Bernadino diocese unwilling to tell how much money it received
Thorson and Liberace on cover of Enquirer

Liberace and Thorson on cover of Enquirer

The following update came in the email on June 3 from a Palm Springs resident.

Behind the Candelabra, the homosexual movie about the aging Liberace and his young teen boy-toy, Scott Thorson, debuted on  Sunday, May 26th.

California Catholic readers will know that it was the San Bernardino diocese who made a financial deal with Hollywood producer, Jerry Weintraub to allow Our Lady of Solitude Catholic Church in Palm Springs to be used for several days as a set for the gay movie. Zsa Zsa Gabor got $75,000 from Weintraub so that her mansion could be used as part of the movie.

At the end of the show, Weintraub acknowledges the names of the cast, including those who played minor roles.  He fails to acknowledge Father John Kavcak who played a cameo part and he fails to acknowledge the San Bernardino diocese for use of the church.  The last scene, historically inaccurate, portrayed Liberace as a Catholic receiving a solemn Catholic requiem Mass. While the diocese tried to portray Liberace as a “lifelong Catholic,” Scott Thorson’s book on which the movie is based never portrayed Liberace as a Catholic. Liberace was revealed as an active promiscuous homosexual with a large pornography collection.

Mark Swed, music critic for the Los Angeles Times watched the film and called it a “trashy biopic.”

Candelabra actors on cover of Entertainment Weekly

Candelabra actors on cover of Entertainment Weekly

The movie was presented at the Cannes Film Festival this year, only months after France approved gay marriage.  While Weintraub hoped to capture the Palm D’Or (golden palm) award at Cannes for best film, that prize went to an explicit lesbian love story titled, Blue is a Warm Color. The head of the committee to select the award was Hollywood producer, Steven Spielberg.

The diocese, while acknowledging its role in the making of this gay film, has refused to disclose how much money the diocese received from Weintraub.

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Comments

  1. Anton L Seidl says:

    Bishop Barnes is following Vespasian’s dictum “non olet”… Money, indeed, does not stink. What stinks is the fact that the Catholic church allows herself to be used in this manner by the likes of Weintraub and Spielberg.

    • why would the Catholic Church even get involved with this trash of a movie. That’s why no one takes us seriously or supports us. Be grateful that the church in question wasn’t even mentioned in the credits of this so called movie.

      • Caller to Action says:

        It is time for Catholics to not just grumble about bad behavior by bishops and their staffs. Fraternal correction requires more than posting comments following this story and previous stories in California Catholic Daily about the San Bernardino dioceses involvement and presumably substantial profiting from the gay pornographic film “Behind the Candelaba”!

        With nearly 2,800 diocese worldwide, Pope Francis can’t personally know about or discipline every incidence of bad behavior by rebellious bishops.

        It is time for a group of real Catholics to read and print out these California Catholic Daily stories about the San Bernardino diocese’s participation and presumptive profiteering from the production of the gay pornographic film, “Behind the Candelabra”, and to take these stories to a “meet-up” at the San Bernardino diocesan offices to talk to Bishop Barnes and his staff!

        The address is: 1201 East Highland Avenue, San Bernardino, CA 92404 and the telephone number is: (909) 475-5300

        Viewing the gay pornographic film “Behind the Cadelabra will be a serious occasion of sin for many boys and young and older men who are suffering from same-sex attraction.

        It is time for Catholics to demand answers about how this scandal happened and to demand that moral principles be clearly stated, and then policies and procedures be adopted so that this will not happen again in the San Bernardino diocese.

        It would be good if the diocese takes the dollar amount of the “thirty pieces of silver” that was presumably paid for their assistance in promoting this gay pornography film and publicly returns it to Jerry Weintraub, Steven Soderbergh, and the other producers of the film. Like the High Priests who did not want to take back the thirty pieces of silver from Judas, no doubt Jerry Weintraub and Steven Soderberg do not want to take back any money they paid to the San Bernardiano diocese or Bishop Gerald Barnes. Perhaps it would be better to take this “blood money” and “buy a potter’s field” by contributing the money to provide food to truly poor and starving people through the international Catholic Relief Agency or the Church in Need organization.

        The San Bernardino Diocese and Bishop Gerald Barnes are not suffering from dire poverty or hungry. But even if they were, that would not justify cooperating in producing a gay pornography film and even getting paid for such participation in such a scandalous affair!
        San Bernardino Catholics, it is time for action!

        May the Holy Spirit inspire and encourage San Bernardino Catholics to take action!

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Well, I don’t know if you’ve actually seen the film, but it is definitely not pornographic. Your cause will be helped if you actually tell the truth. I leave it to others to decide whether it was an appropriate film to be made in part inside a church, but again, that decision will be aided by a true description of what went on in the scene and in the movie.

          • Catherine says:

            YFC writes, “Well, I don’t know if you’ve actually seen the film, but it is definitely not pornographic.”

            YFC, You do not accept the teachings of the Catholic Church. You have informed us that your Catholic faith is still based on perceived “clouds of happiness” so you are not qualified at this time to be a trustworthy Catholic film critic.

            I copied part of a web article on the movie. I left out the disgustingly gross information regarding certain scenes that you would endorse as just being more “clouds of happiness. ”

            Soderbergh’s “Behind the Candelabra” Is on HBO and Not in Theaters Because It’s Too Gay
            —By Asawin Suebsaeng| Sun May. 26, 2013 3:00 AM PDT

            Michael Douglas, and Matt Damon, playing lovers in the ’70s and ’80s. Courtesy of HBO
            Behind the Candelabra
            HBO Films
            118 minutes

            “Steven Soderbergh’s Behind the Candelabra (which premieres Sunday, May 26 at 9 p.m. EDT on HBO) is as good as you’ve heard. It’s a moving and beautifully made film that traces the clandestine half-decade romance between Vegas showman and pianist Liberace and his much, much younger live-in boyfriend Scott Thorson, who cowrote the 1988 memoir on which the film is based. (My colleague Maggie Caldwell has a good reflection on, among other things, meeting the flashy and famous entertainment icon when she was a baby here.)

            The whole cast does a superb job; as Liberace, Michael Douglas crafts a portrait of celebrity isolation and capriciousness worthy of an Oscar nomination—if only he were eligible.

            The reason he is not eligible is because Behind the Candelabra, despite competing in the 2013 Cannes Film Festival, will not be released in US theaters. And the reason you will be watching this film (which could very well be Soderbergh’s last before he retires from movies and moves on to making TV shows full time) on cable television instead of at your local multiplex is because of its conspicuous gayness.

            During a press tour in January, Soderbergh explained how he was turned down by every studio he approached with his Liberace project because executives deemed it “too gay” to turn an acceptable profit:

            Nobody would make it. We went to everybody in town. We needed $5 million. Nobody would do it…They said it was too gay. Everybody. This was after Brokeback Mountain, by the way. Which is not as funny as this movie. I was stunned. It made no sense to any of us…[The people at HBO are] great and they’re really good at what they do, and ultimately I think more people will see it, and that’s all you care about. Studios were going, “We don’t know how to sell it.” They were scared.

            YFC, Bishop Barnes should have been just as scared to scandalize his flock when he was asked permission to use a Catholic Church. Bishop Barnes should have also been just as scared for his own soul. Imagine..This movie was “too gay” for Hollywood Studios but it was not “too gay” for Bishop Barnes to sacrilegiously dishonor the Mother of God at Our Lady of Solitude Church. They were turned down by every studio but not turned down by Bishop Barnes. Hollywood was too scared to offend the public yet Bishop Barnes was not too scared to offend God.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Catherine. The studios didn’t buy the film not because it was too pornographic, they didn’t buy it because it was too gay to be marketable to mass audiences. There is a difference between a business decision and the description of something as pornography, which has a very specific definition. It just simply doesn’t meet anybody’s definition of pornography. There is one explicit scene lasting a few seconds – maybe 8 seconds, really, but to be pornographic, the movie would have to have the purpose of gratification. There is a second scene in which a TV is playing another brief explicit scene. This lasts maybe 3 seconds. If you watch Behind the Candalabra for gratification, then you must not have access to the internet or an adult bookstore, and without gratification being the purpose of the imagery, it cannot be pornographic.

            And really, your going back and quoting old posts is truly creepy, especially when you bend and twist the words and the contexts. I will remind you that the post you are quoting was a reference to my family mourning the passing of my father in law and my mother. How can you be so insensitive to a person’s mourning that you would use it against them?

          • Anonymous says:

            How liberating of you. I read the interview with Douglas and Damon and that alone could be described as pornographic. I believe Damon said something to the effect that when “he was behind Douglas and going to town”. Glorification of this perverted man and his lifestyle and the corresponding corruption of a young/teenager by him should never have seen the light of day never mind being condoned by the Catholic Church and profited by them. This is as close to the true meaning of scandal as we can get!

          • Catherine says:

            YFC,

            If you think I am creepy then I suggest you repent quickly and do everything within your power to not end up in hell. YFC, Read what the three children of Fatima saw when Our Lady showed them the lost souls burning in hell.

            Sister Lucy of Fatima Describes the Vision of Hell

            At Fatima, the Blessed Virgin Mary told the three child seers that many souls go to hell because they have no one to pray or make sacrifices for them. In her Memoirs, Sister Lucy describes the vision of hell that Our Lady showed the children at Fatima:

            “She opened Her hands once more, as She had done the two previous months. The rays [of light] appeared to penetrate the earth, and we saw, as it were, a vast sea of fire. Plunged in this fire, we saw the demons and the souls [of the damned]. The latter were like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, having human forms. They were floating about in that conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames which issued from within themselves, together with great clouds of smoke. Now they fell back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fright (it must have been this sight which caused me to cry out, as people say they heard me). The demons were distinguished [from the souls of the damned] by their terrifying and repellent likeness to frightful and unknown animals, black and transparent like burning coals. That vision only lasted for a moment, thanks to our good Heavenly Mother, Who at the first apparition had promised to take us to Heaven. Without that, I think that we would have died of terror and fear.”

            YFC, You seem to ignore your own horrific insensitivity towards others when you promote homosexual unions and homosexual adoptions on a faithful Catholic website and then have the unmitigated gall to refer to yourself as a fellow Catholic. Also, your reference to “clouds of happiness” is very important. It was very revealing. It shows that you have founded your own cafeteria style religion based on clouds and thin air. YFC, You certainly don’t mind victimizing or taunting faithful Catholics with an “in your face flaunting of your homosexual lifestyle” so please do not pull out a sensitivity victimization card.

            You have posted as an insensitive active agent of the father of lies who is victimizing faithful sheep with homosexual propaganda. Now all of the sudden you are worried about sensitivity. If you cannot stand the heat or the truth , then there are many unfaithful websites to post your propaganda and like you they have also rejected Catholic Church teaching. They have also chosen to found their own church and they have also embraced your same false religion called “denial” and “clouds of happiness ” over choosing to carry their cross and be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

          • Bravo, Catherine.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Catherine – You are so willing to disregard the humanity, the faithfulness, and the compassion of gay people that you use our poetic allusions (clouds of happiness) and stories of our morning of our family members as weapons against us. You have serious issues, Catherine, I hope you find healing.

          • Stephen says:

            Ha ha, aided get it, aided.

        • thomas nawn says:

          who are the religious nuts who post these comments, libearce was a devout catholic he loved saint anthony and retained a statue of the saint in his private chapel and hoe could you tight wing religious nuts consider gay people suffering, the lord created all human beings equal and loves all his created souls

          • Abeca Christian says:

            thomas don’t fool yourself to think the way you think. The Lord condemned sodomy and also having relationships with young men is not someone to look up to. Even the devil knows our lord but that does not make him good either.

            Please stop promoting your distorted views here…many here know better.

        • retmico says:

          Have you noticed the latest news from Rome? Concerning Pope Francis’ comments regarding the “Gay lobby” in the vatican, I mean. There have been some rumblings about corruption & connections with sodomites with the abdication of Benedict. Also note the response of the US Catholic Bishops regarding the Boy Scouts. When I read a recent article by Father Cellatus in Remnant Newspaper, the first thing that went through my mind was the probability of the “gay” lobbey’s influence in their statement regarding the recent deccision of Boy Scouts to permit perversion – they had no problem with it, while heretical groups such as Baptists and Evangelicals had enough moral clarity to act immediately.

      • Barbara says:

        At – You said, “Be grateful that the church in question wasn’t even mentioned in the credits of this so called movie.” You’ve got to be kidding me. The damage is already done.

        1 Timothy 6:10 – For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

      • Jim McCrea says:

        Nothing speaks louder to Catholic leaders than money!

    • Bigfoot says:

      well said Anton…well said…

    • happpy girl says:

      Please understand I’m not putting anything down BUT this is what happens
      in the main stream church—I’m a Traditional Catholic, we follow the rubrics of Vatican I, so this would be unheard of with us. Come to a Traditional Church worship with us, we laugh this stuff off. remember many Cardinals, bishops and priests will go to Hell and take many Souls with them so says our blessed Mother at I believe La Salette, not sure of that spelling, follow the Traditional way, I did 19 years ago and could not be happier. God bless to all

  2. Thomas Edward Miles says:

    I could care less what this man was or what he did with his life!!

    • Agreed.

    • TEM, you should care for this man’s soul. You should pray that he repented of all his sins.
      Does this film celebrate active homosexuality? If so, this church should not have allowed use of its building for the film.

      • Catherine says:

        kaves1 asks, “Does this film celebrate active homosexuality?” Oh my gosh! You can’t be serious…..No, wait, you are serious because once again that has been your pattern all along. Distracting from the truth.

        No Kaves1, the main theme in this movie was not about sewing quilts. Please stop posting like k. Kaves1, Your previous posts that undermine Father Perozich have exposed you also. Perhaps your the same person. If not, then birds of the same feather distract and protect homosexuality together.

        • In charity, I must remind you of the 8th Commandment. CCC2464

          • k, don’t you need the pope’s permission before opining on Church doctrine?

        • Catherine, have you ever read the Revelations of Saint Gertrude or the Diary of Saint Faustina? Do you know Jesus Christ? Have you ever read the Gospels from beginning to end? The epistles? It is good to hear the excerpts from them at Mass, but reading them in their entirety is illuminating. If you only attend Sunday Mass, then you hear less than 60% of the Gospels and less than 25% of the rest of the New Testament. (Less than 4% of the Old Testament.) Have you ever heard of a book called The Imitation of Mary? Have you read St. Catherine of Siena’s Dialogue? St. Theresa of Avila?

          • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

            k,

            The Bishop gave us permission to pass this out at the annual REC. I hope and pray that you and others who have misinterpreted so much Scripture will read it:

            Christ is reassuring and humble, as well as powerful, mighty
            02/17/2006 Bishop Robert Vasa

            BEND — We live in an age which places a very strong emphasis on tolerance, mutuality, and acceptance. I have heard repeatedly over the years that “Jesus never judged, condemned or excluded anyone.” I wonder if Peter would agree as the words of Jesus, “Get behind me you Satan,” rang in his ears. I wonder if the Scribes and the Pharisees would agree as they rankled at being called whitened sepulchers or broods of vipers. I wonder if those who heard Jesus say, “Whoever leads one of these little ones astray, it would be better if he had a millstone tied around his neck and be cast into the sea,” nodded approval and said, “He is so tolerant and accepting.” This verse is included, virtually verbatim, in each of the three Synoptic Gospels, Matthew, Mark and Luke. I certainly have no qualms about the image of Jesus as kind and gentle, or with Jesus’ own description of Himself as “meek and humble of heart.” I see and appreciate the great appeal of one of the most recent devotions fostered so powerfully by our late Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, that of Divine Mercy. Each of these attractive and reassuring aspects of Jesus needs to be remembered. These are aspects of Jesus that we cannot afford to forget and to which we can and must cling. At the same time we do well not to forget that the Lord is also a “God of power and might.” Jesus stood up to the guards who came to arrest him in the Garden of Gethsemane. He stood courageously before Pilate. He bore His cross with noble, unflinching determination. He is not a God of weakness. He is strong and He defends His people. This accounts for the strong language used when the “little ones” of His flock are put at risk.
            In our “compromising age” we are loath to name something too strongly. If we do, we are accused of harshness, judgmentalism, perhaps arrogance, certainly intolerance and possibly pharisaism. While it is always necessary to speak the truth with love, the Church also believes and teaches that it is also necessary to speak the truth with strength. It is necessary to defend truth and not be too quick to rationalize, justify or excuse misleading teachings or teachers. There is a point at which passive “tolerance” allows misleading teachings to be spread and propagated, thus confusing or even misleading the faithful about the truths of the Church. There is a very strong word, which still exists in our Church, which most of us are too “gentle” to use. The word is “heresy.” We perhaps think that heresy is a thing of the past. We think perhaps of the Arian heresy or the Pelagian heresy or the Manichaen heresy. We might even maintain that there are no longer any heretics because that conjures up images of inquisitions and burnings at the stake. I do not, in any way, seek to validate or justify any kind of “vigilante” theology, but we do need strong words to combat erroneous and fallacious teaching.
            As a point of information, the present Code of Canon Law does include a couple of canons on heresy. Canon 751 defines heresy as “the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt, after the reception of baptism, of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith. . . .” There are a number of teachings of the Church that must “be believed by divine and Catholic faith.” We must believe, for instance, that Jesus is true God and true man. To deny or doubt this, with obstinacy, is heresy. We must believe the God exists in Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We must believe that Jesus rose from the dead. We must believe that He ascended into heaven. These phrases will all be familiar because they constitute the Creed that we recite each Sunday. It may come as a bit of a shock, but there are a number of Catholic theologians who now seriously call into question these basic teachings, these Creedal tenets.
            There are also moral teachings that constitute a part of the deposit of faith that must be accepted and adhered to, “firmly embraced and retained.” Canon 750 concludes: “therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church.” It is certainly necessary to exercise a great deal of caution and care in arriving at a founded conclusion that someone accepts or teaches heresy. There is something terribly harsh about calling a person a heretic. This is not something that is ever done lightly or capriciously. Nevertheless, there are those of the household of Faith who obstinately deny some truth that is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith.
            There is some question, for instance, about whether those who openly profess to be “pro-choice” are, in fact, holding to a heretical position. The teaching of the Church in the area of life is clear and unequivocal. Human life must be respected and protected from conception to natural death. Those who maintain that any and all decisions about the disposition of pre-born human beings are exclusively the right of the mother or the parents, at least implicitly, reject the clear and consistent teaching of the Church. The truth is that God charges each of us with the duty to protect and defend innocent human life. This is clearly stated in the Fifth Commandment: Thou shalt not kill. In our society, this attempt to protect innocent human life is done through legal legislative processes and is accomplished, or fails to be accomplished, by those whom we elect. It would not be proper to imply that anyone who votes for an anti-life politician is denying some truth of divine and Catholic faith. Yet, if that candidate receives the vote precisely because he maintains that he has no duty to protect or defend innocent human life in the womb, then a vote cast for him is a type of declaration that the teaching of the Church, indeed the validity of the Fifth Commandment itself, is rejected.
            One brave soul has termed this present rejection of responsibility for one’s pre-born brother or sister the right-to-murder heresy. When our Lord said it was time for Him to go to Jerusalem, there to suffer and die, Peter contended with Him quite strongly and rejected this intention of his Lord. For this Peter incurred the blunt and definitive, “Get behind me, you Satan. You are thinking as man thinks and not as God thinks.” Our kind and gentle Lord will certainly receive us and help us when we cry out to Him for He is “meek and humble of heart,” but I suspect he will likewise not mince words with those who reject His Way and His Truth.
            Copyright 2002, Catholic Sentinel, Portland, Oregon | Published by Oregon Catholic Press | Legal Information | Privacy Policy

            By the way I have read almost everything you have mentioned above, possibly all, but I am 74 and my memory is not what it used to be.
            God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
            Kenneth M. Fisher

          • Catherine says:

            k, Shame on you. If you clearly understood those books and the Gospels then you would have NEVER ONCE undermined the faithful priests who uphold Church teaching regarding homosexuality.

            You have undermined good and faithful priests on more than one occasion. For those who have not been paying attention, it just shows how you are banking on the gullibility of people and how very entrenched the problem of homosexuality is within the Church.

            k or kaves1, There is another book that describes duplicitous posting patterns on CCD. Have you ever read the book called The Three Faces of Eve?

          • Anonymous says:

            Catherine, same old lies.

          • Anne T. says:

            Kenneth, God bless His Excellency, Bishop Vasa. He is a man among men as the Lord Jesus Christ was.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Catherine, have you seen the movie? I did. It does have homosexuality among its themes, but I would hardly call it a glorification of homosexuality. It was rather painful to watch, actually. It is as much about greed, deception, friendship, abandonment, and – yes even – faith as it is about homosexuality.

          • Your silly conspiracy theories. Of, course kaves1 and I are not the same poster. I do not have multiple personality disorder and I see no sign of it in kaves1, either. You just get ticked off at something someone writes. Then you invent weird back stories about them. It isn’t just me you do it to, either. It is something that those of us who post here have to endure.

          • Kenneth, that was great. Thank you for sharing that. I am reminded of C.S.Lewis’s portrayal of Christ as a lion and we all know that lions can look as meek and gentle as pussycats but, as we all know, lions are …well, lions! Aslan had such latent power that he used most wonderfully and fearfully on those who thought he was just a pussycat. God sent angels that in this day and age are presented as pretty and insipid women…if that were the case, why did they always have to begin with “Be ye not afraid…” I would bet angels are like nothing we can imagine, and I’ll bet they were not womanish in the least. Also, I hope the women who call God ‘she’ and mother (and why they haven’t been turned into pillars of salt is such a pity) discover the true nature of God. “Our Father, who art in Heaven…’ Are people given a full deck these days, or are they being dealt one hand short with triple jokers?

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Why waste our time watching these kind of movies. This movie only desensitizes the sin even further. We need to pray for the salvation of Liberace not promote it or glorify his sins. His sins should not be openly there for more gay acceptance or gay sensuality as the norm….God have mercy on us all for even entertaining such things in our minds.

            Oh poor flesh how dare this humanity feed your every temptation. How dare it tempt the human understanding into feeling sorry for such lifestyles. Oh poor soul the dead man walking here on earth only think of fleshly desires but the man living in God seek eternal glory in Christ. Oh poor flesh may God heal you of your flaws and renew you so that the soul living in you can be fed only good things. The soul and the flesh do not get along, there is constant friction between the two.

        • Mr. Fisher, thank you for that great post. I don’t know what Scripture you think I have misinterpreted. The one about turning the other cheek, I guess? I was nice to her even though she wasn’t nice. I just recommended some spiritual reading. Look at her reply. You know her. She has attacked you, too, when you wrote something she didn’t like.

        • Let me add, I fully agree with Church teaching as it pertains to Faith and Morals.

          • Catherine says:

            kaves1 writes,

            “Let me add, I fully agree with Church teaching as it pertains to Faith and Morals.”

            kaves1, There would be no need for you to write those words if your own postings C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T-L-Y reflected that.

            kaves1, That post is a very good example of …’Thou doth defend thyself too much and too loudly.”

            kaves1, You have recently exposed yourself. Your previous post that undermined Father Perozich showed that YOU are annoyed and irritated with those who actually DO uphold the Church’s teachings on faith and morals. Pope Francis would tell Father Perozich, “If you annoyed and irritated Kaves1 then blessed be the Lord.”

            So Kaves1 if your only reason for posting on CCD is to coddle and enable homosexual propaganda or be annoyed and irritated with faithful priests then your above quote cannot be trusted and your words will be viewed as inconsistent and fleeting as your annoyances are. Shame on YOU for undermining a faithful priest. You have caused confusion and enabled the rebellious agents of the father of lies. It is good that you’re better conscience is reminding you of how unfaithful it looks for you to be annoyed and irritated with a very good priest. Yes, you showed your 1st loyalty to the propaganda agents of the father of lies. Instead of being annoyed and irritated with the pervasive agents of homosexual propaganda you instead became annoyed, irritated and then verbally undermined a good and faithful shepherd Not good kaves1!

            Home » News » Vatican
            Pope: ‘If we annoy people, blessed be the Lord’

            Vatican City, May 16, 2013 / 10:40 am (CNA/EWTN News).- The Pope told Christians it is better to be “annoying” and “a nuisance” than lukewarm in proclaiming Jesus Christ.

            “If we annoy people, blessed be the Lord,” said Pope Francis during his morning Mass at the Vatican on May 16.

            “We can ask the Holy Spirit to give us all this apostolic fervor and to give us the grace to be annoying when things are too quiet in the Church,” he said at the chapel of the Saint Martha residence, where he lives.”

          • Anonymous says:

            Oh, for Pete’s sake. kaves1 rarely posts and when she does, it has never been in favor of homosexuality. Exactly the opposite. It can be really annoying when someone misinterprets what you post and then bullies you over it, but that is not the kind of being a nuisance that the Pope was talking about. I think you need you need to take off your lavender sunglasses and put on the Mind of Christ and then read what the Pope said again. Stop using the Pope’s lessons to skewer the faithful and go proclaim Christ at the outskirts like he said to.

          • Catherine says:

            Is that another slip up? Edgar Bergen, Could you please cite the specific post where Charlie McCarthy (kaves1 ) let us know that he is now a she?

            Oh what a tangled mess we weave when at first we practice to be duplicitous or to deceive.

          • kaves1 has been posting for years, Anonymous, and sometimes puts up a post that seems out of character, but not often.

          • The Pope just said, Anonymous, that the curia is infiltrated with a stream of gays, and that the Church needs to get rid of them. He is actually exercising kindness, because nature is much harsher on gays than is the mercy of God … Who uses nature to try and knock some sense into the heads of the hard hearted, such as gay curia members.

          • Adamantine says:

            The Catholic Church also teaches Skai that the EO is a church in “schism”…Catholic’s are forbidden to worship in EO church’s or receive the sacraments from their priest’s…Catholic Church is the “A” team…glad I’m a member…

          • Nonsense, Adamantine. The Sacraments of the Orthodox Churches are valid. The Orthodox Eucharist unites the faithful soul to God. Laws of Churches cannot do that. The authority given the Church by Jesus Christ is vested in the popes, one at a time. St Pius X is not the pope today. You’re attempting to generalize what he may have said or written, and you do not have the authority to do so. You’re also interpreting what that and other popes may have said or written but your context is not necessarily theirs … and you are staking a great deal on a catechism, albeit a great one, but nevertheless a written work. Keep you eye on it, and if you see it get up and sit on a throne and issue a proclamation, then let us know.

          • Adamantine says:

            You are wrong Skai…not only are EO schismatic they are heretic as well!…but yes they have valid order’s and the Eucharist…you need to study up on your apologetic’s and Church history…get busy…

          • Adamantine says:

            The Church’s official teaching on EO is this…”they are schismatic and heretic”…we are forbidden to worship with them OR receive the sacrament’s from them! They are heretic as is the protestant…

          • Joe Quinn says:

            Skai: I would like to find that reference to the Curia. Can you provide it? Thanks in advance.

          • Anonymous says:

            And Boy oh Boy Catherine do you annoy people. You got that one down pat!

          • Catherine says:

            Anonymous writes, “And Boy oh Boy Catherine do you annoy people. ”

            Thank you for that most beautiful compliment!

            Gospel according to Matthew Chapter 5

            [13] You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt lose its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is good for nothing any more but to be cast out, and to be trodden on by men.

          • Anonymous, you would not be annoyed if you were not reading her posts. What’s up with that? Does it mean you realize you have much to relearn and learn?

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Kavess,

        This church should be re-consecrated!

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

        • Ken, based on info on the film I have read thus far, I would tend to agree with you. And the pastor should have a talking to.

    • You two, peter and JonJ, sound envious of Liberace.

  3. Diane Balch says:

    As a convert, this is especially confusing to me. How is it that a bishop, priest, or ANY Catholic acknowledges belief in the teachings of the Church upon entry, receives sacraments and attends mass, only to turn around and, by behavior, mock what the Church teaches. What Christ taught, for that matter.
    I am confused by hypocrisy that doesn’t result in disciplinary action. In any other business or major faith, behavior against the institution is disciplined.

    • You don’t have to be a convert to be confused!

      • Anonymous says:

        Maybe your confusion lies in the fact that you decided to become a convert!

        • Diane Balch, welcome to The Church. The people in the Church are not perfect. Impeccability is given to no one. I am sure we are a better Church because you joined. The anonymous poster was mean. Pay no attention to him.

        • The wisest thing I ever did was convert to the Catholic Church and if you can find any other institution on this planet that offers such truth and peace and the very Body and Blood of Jesus Christ then please tell us, as it sure is a big secret from everyone else. That the CHurch is made of sinners there is no argument but one has only to look at the lives of the saints to know that this is the Church of Jesus built on the Rock of Peter. Do I hear an amen?

          • Accepting your challenge, Dana. Send $5 and I’ll reveal the other institutions : ))

          • Catherine says:

            Dana……Yes, sister in Christ …Amen! : )

          • Thanks, Catherine, faithful sister! And if you can squeeze five dollars out of me for such a fruitless mission, Skai you can have it but as they say, you can’t squeeze blood out of a turnip, especially when the turnip is grown in the midwest. heh heh I once heard of a guy in California though who put ads in papers around the state…”Send you dollar to P.O. Box 311 , ___CA.” and I heard he made quite a bit of tax free money.

    • What you are witnessing is not the true Church, but the Modernists who masquerade as Catholics, while those who follow true Catholic teaching are shunted aside and marginalized. However, God will deliver His people from this filth soon…

    • Fr. Duffy Fighting 69th says:

      Sorry Diane. Don’t be confused. The Catholic hierarchy has been rotting from the inside for many decades. The USCCB collectively has no courage and conviction, and this is reflected in the fact that a majority of “practicing” Catholics support the Gay agenda. There is no serious teaching to the Faithful on homosexuality any more. And I am sorry to say that in your lifetime you will see a time when the Catholic church will sanction gay marriage, openly gay priests and religious, and the abrogation of Catholic teaching on homosexuality.

      • Pope Emeritus said that the Church (meaning Vatican, Diocesan chanceries) is infiltrated with “filth”. “Filth” means sodomites. Pope Paul VI said the “smoke of satan has entered the Church”. Pope Francis told all bishops to “practice what they preach” instead of being hypocrites. Note, the lowest form of scum in Hell is the hypocrite of high places. These hypocrites rise to heights through deception in their earthly lives, and then are stamped down to the lowest levels of Hell for eternity by Truth.

        • There are no hypocrites in the Mystical Body of Christ, yet there are countless of them in the episcopacy. What does this mean? It means that countless Catholics, often faithful Catholics, are being ruled over by charlatans, the most evil of all evil men.

          • Bigfoot says:

            absolutely Skai…many bishops are gay…and are in league with the devil…even if they are in league with” old scratch” unwittingly, they are doing his bidding…the Catholic church will stand for all time, unto the consummation of the world…it’s like a basket of wheat and chaff…good and bad…let’s strive to be that “good” example, and live our holy faith, with love and charity and self-denial…

        • Bigfoot says:

          One of the lowest rungs of hell…which is designed for the most reprobate and scandalous of sinners, is particularly nasty…you are placed upside down in magma…feet up!…never being able to right yourself, for all eternity…

          • Abeca Christian says:

            We must choose our words wisely…saying that many bishops are gay sounds to be more harmful to post than to just remain silent. Say that isn’t so….to say something like that can be scandalous. How can we really say something like that without really knowing what is deeply in our Bishops heart. Even if it was true but does it do any good to post it coldly as such? What are we accomplishing by staining our Bishops name like that? I understand that they have let us down and facts have shown us but we must not promote that flaw but seek to promote the real mission not by distracting us to other things so just to discredit and give the enemy more power.

            There are many rumors that do go around and gossip..it all starts with just posting something like that and it can work against the mission of the church. We must be careful and live humbly by Christ.

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Fr. Duffy,

        The true Catholic Church may eventually be once again in the Catacombs, but She will never condone those abominations!

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

        • John C. Leach says:

          You are right Ken. What I don’t understand is the fact that God is in control of all of our needs, mine as well as our Diocese. Isn’t time to trust the Lord. As St. Faustina’s Picture of Divine Mercy says: Jesus I trust in thee. So my question is very simple, if you believe in Jesus; why don’t you trust him?
          Bishop this was deadly wrong and the cause of scandal that reaches out to vast numbers of souls that will be hurt and perhaps lost for all eternity. God have mercy on you and I pray you will apologize to all those entrusted into your care. God trusted you, now you must trust God.

        • Not sure Fr Duffy is a priest … maybe a moniker: Wasn’t there a movie called The Fighting Irish with a Fr. Duffy? Or was Fr Duffy the coach of the Fighting Irish? Could it be a reference to the late Pat O’Brian, who played Fr Duffy (or did he not?) in the movie?

          • I think what we have here is a crypto football player who is a traditional Catholic, and watches old movies.

    • Anne T. says:

      It is called the Judas syndrome, Lori, the Judas syndrome. How did all the little, old, blue-haired ladies sit there and watch Liberace and act so sweet and innocent as if they did not know what was going on? “See know evil, hear no evil, speak know evil”, was their motto and support his behavior any way. That is what his audience consisted mainly of — little blue-haired old ladies gushing over him and making one want to vomit. Now we know what Christ in the Book of Revelation meant when he said he would spew certain people out of his mouth. God help us all not to make the Lord want to vomit, even as we get older. It is one thing to assume someone’s innocence until proven guilty, quite another just to look the other way when the under aged are being harmed and gush over the one doing it.

      • Anne T. says:

        To be fair, though, Lori and Diane Balch, it is not just molestation by homosexuals and lesbians that is being protected by some but also molestation by heterosexuals here in California. Planned Parenthood often just gets rid of the evidence — the child — and does not turn in the molesters. That tells you something about why such legislation as Prop 4 has had trouble being passed.

        • Mark from PA says:

          Anne T, so a lot of little old ladies liked Liberace. They liked him because of his musical talent and because he was a showman. Just because someone is a singer or an artist doesn’t mean that the person is a saint. A lot of people admire musicians and sports stars for their talents but they also realize that these people aren’t perfect. Nobody is perfect. Maybe Liberace was nice to his fans. That means a lot to some people. I don’t know why people are getting so angry about this movie. If they only made movies about people who never committed any sins, there wouldn’t be a lot of movies out there. It is kind of sad that some people just use this story as another chance to rant and rave about those awful homosexuals. SIGH.

          • Anne T. says:

            Mark PA, some of those “little old ladies” were aware of his relationship with the under aged man and some were not. The former were culpable for even going to his concerts no matter how talented he was. I knew a woman who turned a blind eye to what her own son was doing when he got caught. You can bet that some of those women in his audience did so also.

          • Anne T. says:

            Nevertheless, I should have been more careful and not have given the impression that they all knew. For that you all have my apologies.

          • Which, PA, is why “little ol’ ladies” need faithful pastors and strong Catholic men in their families … so the homosexuals don’t get away with bamboozling them … you know what I’m talking about, right PA?

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Anne T.

        Probably most of those “little old ladies” did not even know he was a sodomite. I didn’t until after his death!

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

        • Anonymous says:

          He denied being homosexual and even sued (and won) an English newspaper who ran a story that implied that he was.

        • Kenneth, you’re so right. As I said earlier, my mom liked him because he adored his mother and talked about her all the time in his concerts. He brought out women of a certain age’s maternal instincts and also, it was a more innocent time then. I didn’t know what a homosexual was until I was married and I still didn’t know what they really did. I never really thought about it. Red Skelton used to mince about on the stage but he was a hetero and happily married. As long as people were quiet about their various oddities, people didn’t say anything but accepted you as you were. They call that hypocrisy now, but I feel it gave people a chance to know one another without prejudice. Since the big ‘come out of the closet’ it has done nothing but cause tremendous division and alienation because you can’t overlook someone’s sins when they demand you accept them without their repentence. Women like my mom (who was anything BUT a little bluehaired old lady) liked LIberace because he was gentle and sweet and played piano like nobody’s business. I never could understand it, just as I couldn’t understand liking Guy Lombardo’s warbling tremulos but hey, my mom couldn’t stand Stevie Wonder, and I loved Motown back in the day.

          • Anne T. says:

            Dana, I meant no offense to your mother. As my posted apology June 8 at 3:13 pm says, I should not have given the impression that ALL the women knew he was having an affair with the under aged. Some did I have no doubt, but many or most did not. The Lord will decide who’s culpable in the end, not me. I just get angry because a male on under aged male molestation in my family caused such hell in our family years ago that I sometimes explode and do not clarify exactly what I mean. Also, I have had other trusted men around me later accused and convicted of molestation of boys and teens, one at a place were I worked, of other denomination, another a priest. It is just too hard to trust after all that, and perhaps I should not for the sake of the children and young people. Sorry for the comment about the little blue haired old ladies.

          • Mark from PA says:

            Well, Dana, I am with you here. Liberace was before my time I suppose and I didn’t like Frank Sinatra or Lawrence Welk while my parents were big fans of them. But I loved Motown and still do. A lot of the old Supremes songs I still know by heart. I would play the records and sing along too. Stevie Wonder is great, Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell had beautiful voices but died tragic deaths. Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, the Marvelettes, Gladys Knight, the Jacksons, what beautiful voices. Back then they called it the “Sound of Young America.” Many of these artists helped to break racial barriers. So many of our top stars today don’t have that kind of talent and class. The female singers even went to “charm school.” Some of the rap music is so degrading, it is sad. Guess I’m showing my age here.

        • In 1979 the Catholic Twin Circle (associated with the National Catholic Register) featured Liberace on its cover one week. The case it was trying to make did not fly. For the same reason the case being made by the supporters of this porn propaganda piece by the devil won’t fly either. They could put broomsticks and flying nuns in it and it still would not fly.

      • Very good observation, Anne T.!!!

        • Oh, Anne, I didn’t take it that way,honest! You’ve never said anything on this site that would offend anyone but those who had it coming. You’re very right, and I’ve never thought about what you commented on…what you said just triggered memories of my mom, like how she loved watching pro wrestling on Sat. mornings…I was inwardly chuckling at the obvious theater, but my mom really believed they were serious, and when Dick the Bruiser would pick on some little guy she’s get so upset! HA! Sorry, but if you met my mom you’d have loved her…her funeral cortege was two miles long. Everyone loved her. And thanks Mark for the trip down memory lane…so sad now. Detroit has become a wasteland and it was just so alive and fun back then. When staying w/a cousin in Detroit we’d go grocery shopping about 11 pm at Farmer Jacks when everyone would be boogying down the aisles to motown. One of my all time favorite tunes was by the Dovell’s “You Can’t Sit Down”…wow, one of the greatest rock & roll songs ever! Sorry, didn’t mean to go on.

          • PS…Mark, it was Stevie Wonder’s version of “You Can’t Sit Down”…the long version with his harmonica solo. So great. The Dovells were pretty forgettable otherwise. Not that any of this matters to anyone else. haha

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Diane,

      Thank God you have found His Church. Even Jesus had his Judas Iscariot.

      If these errant bishops, priests, religious, and laity don’t repent, they too will find out what happened to him.

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

    • Converts often come from denominations or philosophies which have some limitations on free will. The Church teaches that all souls enjoy free will. A bishop has free will, and some or many choose to betray God … it is their free will to do so. Jesus guarantees the Church, and not individual bishops, popes, or anyone else.

  4. Tom Wexford says:

    As a resident of Rancho Mirage and the Diocese of San Bernadino who has witnessed countless violations of the approved Liturgy in this Diocese I am not surprised. Bishop Barnes and all like minded careerists need our prayers.

    • tom in san jose says:

      They need prayer, but more immediately, they need to be disciplined. But who will do it?

      • They’re building up the consequences of their sin in their own bodies … it’ll get worse, and those responsible will become more degenerate and more obvious.

      • St Paul tells us that the discipline of homosexuals begins showing up in their bodies. Homosexuality is the consequence of sin … If these bishops were holy, then they would not display and demonstrate the consequences of sin but the rewards of grace.

  5. Maybe the money received by Fr Kavcak was thirty pieces of silver!!

  6. John Drury jr says:

    It´s not the Catholic Church herself, it´s this liberal catholic priest that sold his soul for a few dollars more. Quite sad and pathetic indeed.

    • Carmen Delgado says:

      Totally agree with you John, look at the apostles, one betryed Jesus, one denied him and all abandened him and they had Jesus right there. This will happen till the end of time, but not to worry if you believe that even the gate of hell will not prevail and I believe this with all my heart.

      • Anne T. says:

        Yes, Carmen, as a convert I almost went back out of the Church because of scandals I was personally confronted with such as this, except I knew it was just as bad or even worse in some other churches and faiths. It was holy priests that gave and give me the support to stay in the Church in spite of it all and to watch and pray about my own behavior — that it truly be acceptable to the Lord.

        • Bigfoot says:

          Don’t ever leave Ann!…this is the true Church, started by our Lord in the year 33 A.D….Bad priest’s and bishops’s are never a reason to leave…but to stay!…for every bad, recalcitrant, schismatic cleric…their are many hundreds more who are good, and fighting the good fight daily!…Ask the Blessed Mother for strength and fortitude, and to cover you under her holy mantle…she is God’s greatest creation…even surpassing all of His holy archangels, combined!…Praised be Jesus Christ!

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Carmen,

        The one who was assigned he care of His Mother, St. John, did not abandon him!

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

      • The bishops have Jesus right there when they consecrate the bread and wine … they evidently do not believe it. How would you figure the Lord would feel and act when He is snubbed and ignored by His own priests?

  7. Am I to understand then, that the Bishop permitted a Catholic Church to be used for a scene showing an active homosexual pornography lover being given a solemn Catholic requiem Mass that never actually occurred in real life? So, he – in essence -permitted them to perpetuate the notion that an active homosexual lifestyle has no consequence in the next life? This is the exact opposite of the truth and misleads and confuses the Catholic faithful to whom the Bishop is obliged to teach the truth.

  8. Another Judas diocese and bishop selling their Lord for thirty pieces of silver. Don’t they realize they’ve sold their souls as well? An utter disgrace. Shameful…if they still possess a sense of shame.

  9. Michael Mc Bride says:

    “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.” “You cannot serve and mammon.” In attempting to befriend or accommodate itself to that which is “evil” or contrary to God’s law — for any reason – the Church (whether universal or local) abandons its Mission to lead others to holiness of life. Instead, it willingly jumps into the mire itself.

  10. St. Christopher says:

    The activities of Bishop Barnes and his diocese illustrates how weak the Vatican has become. Just look at what the Bishop has permitted, on sacred ground. Money is never a reason for blasphemy and scandal. In fact, it is likely that the Bishop simply has no faith, and does little to his “flock” to lead them toward salvation. The absence of orthodoxy is well known in the diocese. In fact, why bother to go to church there at all? And, where is the Vatican? Where is the USCCB? Why, going out to dinner with leading politicians, of course. Abortion? No problem for Cardinal Dolan. Homosexual sexual “rights”? No problem, particularly to Bishop Barnes. But, demand obedience, demand money. It is so sad to see the Vatican “sitting this one out”. But look at German and Austrian bishops — they are engaged in complete disobedience and a virtual breakdown of the Faith there. Yet, the Vatican does nothing. The institutional Church is over. Recent articles showed the virtual elimination of new priests and religious, except for a minor increase in Third World seminaries. Only in Traditional Orders, including the SSPX, are number actually increasing. What happened in the Coachella Valley is symptomatic to what is happening to the Church everywhere. Bishop Barnes should be sacked; as should Cardinal Dolan, and many, many bishops (but not Archbishop Cordileone, who is proving himself in ways not originally expected).

    • Island Boy says:

      St Christopher,

      Give the new man (Francis) a chance to clean up..I believe he will..(those who live in hope will not die in despair)

      • Easier said than done, Island Boy. Look what happened to Pope John Paul after only 30 days on the throne. Do you really imagine that Pope Francis is residing in some unexpected domicile because of the reasons given? Don’t you recall how the Pope Emeritus was betrayed by those residing and working in the papal quarters? Do you imagine no one has bugged it? Would you choose to settle into a snake pit?

    • Mark from PA says:

      St. Christopher, the SSPX is a fringe group. They are actually not all that united a group, some of the members left to form the Pius V group and others have reunited with the Church. You talk about disobedience but how obedient is the SSPX to the Roman Catholic Church? You think that Bishop Barnes and Cardinal Dolan should be sacked but if Rome was not happy with them they wouldn’t be where they are.

      • PA, your jealousy at being yourself on the fringe is breaking forth. The SSPX has all the Sacraments, real priests and bishops in communion with the Pope … remember that their excommunications were lifted? The SSPX is Roman Catholic and not heretics nor schismatics. Why are you promulgating lies and deceit? Is your gayness getting to you a bit?

        • Anonymous says:

          The SSPX priests are suspended. Their sacraments are illicit.

          • Mark from PA says:

            Skai, Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications of those bishops but he did not recognize them as bishops of the Catholic Church.

  11. Do you think the American Catholic bishops, UCCB, who will be meeting s in a luxury hotel in Coronado California will watch this Bishop Gerald Barnes endorsed HBO movie in their posh bedrooms while enjoying room service?

    Few people realize how much the American bishops’ organization, the UCCB, receives from large government grants.

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      JOHN,
      VERY SAD to say, that was the case when they last had their meeting in Sad Diego!
      God bless, yours in Their Hearts.
      Kenneth M. Fisher

  12. Catherine M says:

    No wonder young decent men are not attracted to the priesthood.

  13. Pew Person says:

    Is this why we never hear any sermons about homosex?

    • Bigfoot says:

      yup…many “gay” priest’s are loathe to mention a stern word concerning the perversion of sodomy…many of these priest’s are gay, and don’t want to upset the queers, as they themselves are often queer…many bishops as well are “flaming” homosexual’s…everyone here knows this…c’mon…

      • I inadvertantly ran into a gaggle of some chancery priests one day, and I’d say they’d be indistinguishable in West Hollywood or the Castro District … gay as gay is. Anyone remember the old Robin Hood movies and TV shows showing the evil and gay bishop or archbishop of Canterbury or whatever? Same sort of presence.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Well, Bigfoot, interesting comments in your post of 6/7, 12:07 PM.

    • Anne T. says:

      Priests in my area have given sermons for marriage and against so-called same-sex marriage. Also some have given sermons against fornication, adultery and sodomy, but they are very careful how they word it since there are children and young people in the congregations. Also, many of the churches have flyers for the examination of the conscience and gift stores with prayer books including those sins for the examination of ones conscience. So the priests at the churches were I go seem to be doing their duty, charitably but rightly.

  14. I wonder what Bishop Barnes did with the money from Weintraub? Did he pay for his HBO channel?

  15. Bigfoot says:

    Bishop Barnes is a modernist…doesn’t surprise me that he would allow a Catholic Church, on consecrated ground, with the “Real Presence”, within the tabernacle, to be used in such a “filthy” film! He probably liked Liberace, after all he was a “flaming” homosexual…why wouldn’t Barnes endorse such a revolting film!

  16. This is the movie that Hollywood is rejecting as “too gay” for our times.

    • Bigfoot says:

      it’s a shock to any person’s sensibility!

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Lori,
      Thanks for making it no longer necessary for me to write what you wrote above.
      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

  17. Where the “smoke of Satan has entered the Church”, the fires of Hell have filled the chanceries with flames.

  18. Candace says:

    I attend a Church in the San Bernardino Diocese and do not agree with Bishop Barnes on a few topics. Now I am miffed. My fiancé is a new Catholic and is asking me to explain why the Bishop allowed this. I have no answers!

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Candace,

      Give you fiancé the words of St. Augustin who was himself a Bishop!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

    • The answer, Candace, is termed “The mystery of iniquity”.

  19. Jesse Martinez says:

    How do I explain this to my sons who have recently been confirmed by Bishop Barnes?

    • Catherine says:

      Jesse Martinez asks, “How do I explain this to my sons who have recently been confirmed by Bishop Barnes?”

      Jesse, That is a very valuable question. Since your sons have just received the important sacramental mark of becoming a Cristian soldier, it is more than a good time, it is actually the best time to inform them how Sacred Scripture tells us to always hold fast to the teachings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and this INCLUDES holding fast to tradition especially when those who are in authority abandon those important teaching truths and traditions.

      Bishop Barnes decision to allow this scandal does not mean that the sacramental mark of the Holy Spirit is not there present when Bishop Barnes confers the sacramental mark upon those who are being confirmed.

      The Holy Spirit IS there and while this is a difficult concept to accept or to understand, it is our faith in Jesus Christ and our faith in apostolic succession that trusts in Christ’s promise that ‘Upon this Rock I will build my Church” and “the gates of hell would not prevail.” Even the most scarlet sins of a bishop cannot supersede the promises of Christ or interrupt the sacramental grace that is being bestowed at the time of Confirmation.

      Tell your sons that they are now Christian soldiers and that there is a reason that they were chosen to be soldiers of Christ at this present time of history. Your sons are old enough to know that there have always been Judases within the Church. Your sons are also living in this particular time where they have been given the sacramental grace to know the truth so that they may also defend the truth as Christian soldiers.

      While it is important to explain that this was wrong for a bishop to allow this, it is even more important for your son’s to know that they can and should pray for the conversion of this errant bishop who has allowed this terrible public scandal.

      Jesse, Remind your sons that no matter how wrong or evil an act that a bishop, a priest or any individual commits, that as Catholics we are taught to always pray for their complete conversion and that we should never rejoice or feel pleased about the thought of someone going to hell for all eternity.

      Jesse, Perhaps you have already taken your family to see the movie “For Greater Glory.” This would be a good film for your sons to view together so they may understand just how precious the Catholic Faith is and that throughout Church history there have always been scandals and there have always been the finest examples of the martyrs and the saints who always point us back in the direction of loving and serving Christ first.

      St. John Eudes said, “One of the surest signs of God’s displeasure with mankind is to allow bad priests.” Jesse, This quote means that if we love God first, then we should each be asking ourselves….what have I done or what am I doing that greatly offends God? If we have done things in the past or present and have gone to confession, then we want to extend the same mercy to Bishop Barnes that Christ extends to us in the confessional for our own transgressions. Everyone can ask themselves, What is society collectively doing to offend God? There is artificial contraception, abortion, adultery, pornography, acceptance of homosexual unions, pre-marital sex or living in sin together while not being married. We should each ask ourselves , “What have I personally done knowingly or unknowingly to offend God which has then collectively added and allowed this particular type of collective scourge known as the allowing of very bad clergy ?”

      Yes, we can be outraged by the sin but our outrage should never supersede the desire for our own conversion or for someone else’s true conversion and contrite repentance. Also, since this movie is about a deceased person we should still pray for him. Liberace may or may not have experienced a very humbling type of conversion before he faced God. AIDS is a horrible disease. Yet how often is it that it takes such a major corralling of our senses to get us to pay attention to how much we are deeply offending God? Liberace must have been very scared. This is where the phrase “scare the hell out of you” comes into a reality and into a choice to repent or not to repent. In the terrifying private and quiet moments of his last days, I would like to hope that Liberace reflected on his entire life. If God, could allow Liberace the talent to play the piano so magnificently, then most assuredly the same God who bestowed that gifted talent, would mercifully forgive a contrite Liberace who would then be no different than one more example of a contrite prodigal son. Each time we hear about this awful movie it should remind us to pray for the soul of Liberace in case he is in Purgatory. If he is is in Purgatory, no one would be sadder than Liberace that his actions on earth allowed even a Catholic bishop to be seduced into carrying further the scandals of his (Liberace’s) life on earth. Catholic bishops are supposed to teach us to pray on behalf of the souks in Purgatory. Catholic bishops are not supposed to add to the additional suffering of those poor suffering souls.

      Jesse, much of the responsibility of your son’s learning the fullness of truth, will be from your own efforts that will ensure that they learn the true faith and by your personal example of faithfulness. How blessed are your sons to have a good father who cares about their souls.

      St. John Eudes also said, “The Christian life is a continuation and completion of the life of Christ in us. We should be so many Christs here on earth, continuing His life and His works, laboring and suffering in a holy and divine manner in the spirit of Jesus.”

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Jesse,

        Catherine’s comments are excellent spiritual counsel, but you might also want to tell them of St. Francis Borgia, the nephew of the Borgia Pope, and how he obtained his Crown in Heaven by praying for his very bad uncle a Pope.

        It seems that no matter how bad the examples are to try to lead us away from Our Lord and His Mother, He has given us ample examples to help us!

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

      • Re: Catherine’s reply to Jesse. Catherine, you must be a religious yourself. I think you just taught us all again about what it means to be a good catholic! At least you reminded me! Many Thanks!!

      • God bless you Catrherine, very well explained, better than many priests I dare say. Thank God there are still Catholics like you. I live in the San Bernadino dioscese and I long to leave here, get back to a real Catholic dioscese. For example, did you know that Bishop Barnes alllows no Saturday morning mass here? Only the Sat vigil mass. Whats up with that?

        • Interesting! Traditionally Saturday Masses (as opposed to Saturday Vigil Masses) are dedicated to Our Lady. After God, there is no-one Satan hates as much as Our Lady. But she will crush his head.

      • Again, Catherine, bravo!

  20. C. Wharton says:

    Indeed, there are no answers. A bishop making such poor decisions is in desperate need of help and plenty of prayer.

    Advanced age is no assurance of “wisdom”, and it seems quite clear that this also applies to Bishops!

    cabw

  21. What does it mean when a bishop uses a church for the purpose of generating deception and other evils?

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Skai,

      “What does it mean when a bishop uses a church for the purpose of generating deception and other evils?” I shudder to even think of it!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

  22. Juan Oskar says:

    Couldn’t Weintraub have used CGI?

  23. I suggest going to an Eastern Catholic Church (which are under the Pope in Rome by the way). Beautiful liturgies, and sound doctrine.

  24. SOLOMON says:

    Nothing the CHURCH d0es surprises me!!! The CHURCH had a golden opportunity to truly show their Pro-life stance, but they BLEW IT!
    Biden & Pelosi attended Pope Francis inauguration and they should have been told not to receive Communion. But, alas, apparently they were never told nor denied this holiest of sacraments.
    John Paul II sent numerous emissaries to Bush to try to avert the Iraq War to no avail. Who is the voice of PEACE and MORALITY today?
    US is #1 in making WARS – planned by the Neo-Cons in 1992; US is #1 in SELLING ARMS; #1 in IMPRISONMENT – worse than Stalin’s GULAG; and a LEADER in DIVORCE and ABORTION !!! In the early 30′s Hitler stood flanked by the Catholic and Lutheran clergy. We have had our Constitutional rights torn asunder by the Patriot Act and Agenda 21. Where does it STOP ???

  25. Anonymous says:

    Why not email the Bishop, whose address can be found at the SB Diocese site? Here’s mine:

    Dear Bishop Barnes,

    I never thought I would be reprimanding my own Church’s Bishop, as I am compelled to do here as a matter of conscience, for your being an accessory to peddling pornography on film and for the scandal it has created to the Roman Catholic Church. I am referring to the Liberace film Behind the Candelabra as reported in the links below. You allowed the staging of a funeral Mass complete with casket present and presided by Father John Kavcak at our Lady of Solitude Catholic Church knowing that Liberace’s body was never brought for Catholic Mass to any church. Moreover, your diocese’s BYTE compounds the scandal by describing Liberace as a “lifelong Catholic” imputing that he was a lifelong practicing Catholic which he obviously was not as attested by the film’s reviews that portray Liberace as a lifelong practicing homosexual, which practice you well know is contrary to the teachings of Roman Catholicism.

    Please spare us any recommendation that we go see the film or offer discounts to churchgoers from S.B. Diocese. Instead do publicly acknowledge your mistake and thereby allow us to hold our heads up high when we walk inside our Church.

    • Good example of a letter of upbraiding!!! As the Pope Emeritus said, there is a lot of “filth” in the Church, and there can be no question he meant in the episcopacy … we’re seeing an example in this situation.

  26. Even I agree it was wrong for a Bishop to do this. He is only a custodian of the properties under his stewardship. The property belongs to the Church and the people who voluntarily donate to the parish. The Bishops personal opinions in this case do not matter.

    And, using a Catholic Church for this purpose can certainly make it appear as if the Church condoned homosexuality. Though, I suspect Barnes looks at it as if even habitual sinners can hope for God’s forgiveness in the afterlife.

    • Though there is a vague possibility that the producers lied to the Bishop. They might have shown him a version of the script that cast Liberace’s gay life as empty or 0therwise misrepresented the movie.

      • Bigfoot says:

        Lied to the Bishop…the producer’s?…you’re either delusional or trolling Jon J…which is it?

      • Fr. Duffy Fighting 69th says:

        Please. Don’t even go there. Everyone knows Liberace was a flamer. The Bishop knew exactly what he was doing. there is a disease in the Catholic Church and God in his wrath will burn it out.

      • Whether the producers lied to the bishop or whether the bishop failed to discern, either way it does not look so good for this bishop, nor for his chancery officials … anyone yet done a gay evaluation on this diocese?

  27. 30 pieces of silver

  28. That movie was on Dish, thought it was about Liberace, it was a boring, badly acted porno flick. Waste of time. One more reason I will never return to the church that puts money ahead of everything else. I saw this in Chicago in the 50′s and it has not stopped. If the church needs money how come they do not trust God the way they tell people to?

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Annonymous,

      You also should have asked him to go in “sack cloth and ashes” to make amends to the God he has so gravely offended!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Maggie,

      In the name of God and His Mother, I beg you to come home and help us restore His Church!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

  29. Paul bauer says:

    Judge not, lest you be judged. This is God’s issue, not ours.

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Paul,

      WRONG! It is an issue for all of His true followers!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

    • God is judging through His faithful. Damnation is the lot for these sodomite junkies, and their abettors, no matter how much ecclesiastical swag they might have.

    • Paul bauer, you are absolutely wrong.
      We must NEVER tolerate sin. Tolerating sin is the most uncharitable thing anyone can do, since it can send Souls to Hell.
      We all must judge right from wrong.

      John 7:24 – Jesus said: “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment”.

      Code of Canon Law: “Obligation and Rights of ALL the Christian Faithful”
      ” 212 §3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church
      and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful,
      without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons. ”

      “In this Year of Faith let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more, by reading and meditating on the Scriptures, studying the Catechism (of the Catholic Church, Second Edition), steadily approaching the Sacraments.” -Pope Francis, May 15, 2013.

  30. Eddie F says:

    Is this the first time that a Catholic bishop has helped make a gay themed movie?
    Is this grounds for resignation? Is there no shame?

  31. Waverley says:

    Make sure to tell Him that when you’re in front of the judgement seat, accounting for your life.

    We are living through the Great Apostasy. Let me guarantee you, it IS our issue.

  32. Robert Bushlow says:

    It’s time for Bishop Barnes to be replaced!

  33. Never judge a holy man says:

    First of all, one should never judge a priest or holy man. That is Gods job alone. Yes, marriage is truly intended to be between a man and a women. Gay is a sexual preference much like being a pediphile. You can keep preferences locked up, where they should be and not tell any one if you don’t want to discuss it or be open to receive truth about it. I’m not sure when it became so important to specify your sexual preference, but I’m really tired of being stepped on by gays, and atheists. You can be gay and not act on it, which is very much the suffering that you should do. As for the church, we are being tested. Pray for truth in all hearts. Maybe this will resolve the issue!!

    • Rasputin would have loved you, NJAHM, for your naiivitee’. BTW, where you people come up with these “we are forbidden to judge” rants is strange, because that is not what Jesus ever said. You spin meisters are constantly attempting to subject souls to your insidious machinations. But even if you managed to shut up the faithful, yet as Jesus says, “even the stones shall cry out with His glory”. His glory is the Truth, and you simply cannot shut it up, dude. Go now and get a life.

  34. I read one of the Obituaries on Liberace’s death from 1987 and he was given a funeral Mass at an undisclosed Catholic Church in Palm Springs. I happen to know the priest( a very holy and orthodox man) who gave him last rights, he therefore could have died in a state of Grace in spite of a possibly sinful life. The church used in the movie could have simply portrayed the truthful event of his funeral Mass. I don’t see the problem here.

    • Yeah, right, LisaV.

    • “…he therefore could have died in a state of Grace in spite of a possibly
      sinful life.” True enough. And if the film portrays Liberace sincerely repenting on his deathbed and repudiating all his homosexual sins that would be absolutely wonderful. And if it portrays the young lover doing likewise and from then on leading an upright and godfearing life, that also would be truly uplifting and edifying.

      So why is it that somehow I find it hard to believe that that is the goal of this film?

      It is known and documented that Oscar Wilde sincerely repented on his deathbed and died reconciled to the Church, as did his long-time lover. But do you find any of the mainstream media giving publicity to this fact? Are they attempting in droves to ‘come out’ about the truth of his later convictions and repentance?

      And just let a Mel Gibson attempt to make a movie called, say, “The last days of Oscar Wilde” and watch who will come out of the woodwork to blacken his work and his name with all the well-organised and well-financed political clout they have at their disposal.

  35. Our Lady of Solitude Catholic Church in Palm Springs used for several days as a set for the gay movie “Behind the Candelabra” – -
    Pastor: Rev. John Kavcak, M.S.C., Parochial Vicar: Rev. David Foxen, M.S.C., Deacon: John Skora.
    Diocese Bishop – Bishop Gerald R. Barnes.

    Has anyone written to Bishop Barnes about this?
    Copied the US Papal Nuncio?
    Copied the Vatican?

  36. Dear Fellow Catholics,
    Do not be discouraged by some bad Bishops or some bad Priests or bad Nuns.
    Even though they commit SCANDAL and possibly SACRILEGE, we must stay Faithful to Jesus and His Church. (He warned us of wolves in sheep’s clothing.)

    Stay close to the SACRAMENTS especially Confession and the Eucharist. Adoration of the Eucharist is extremely helpful.
    At home read Holy Scripture (Catholic Bible).
    And to insure you know the truth of what Jesus’s Church teaches – rather than following false teachings – at home study the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.

  37. Most catholics cannot quite grasp the concept that we are living in the time of the mass apostasy ( not just clergy, but virtually everyone ) as predicted in the bible and various apparitions ( La Salette, Good Success, Pope Leo XIII, St. Francis of Assisi etc..) Our Lord promised to be with the church till the end.. not the buildings and those who have ‘walked away’ protestant -like ( see John 6:66 ) and formed a new protestant ‘faith’ in the novus ordo church. Rather, the True Church… the Bride.. those who profess the true faith! Our Lord asked if He would find any faith left in those days. Not an easy concept for most to accept!
    The bible even refers to the abomination that causes desolation and the cessation of the Holy Sacrifice… that means no more Real Presence! The sacrilege of the new protestant service passing itself off as a ‘mass’, rejection of the belief in Our Lord’s Real Presence ( not by ‘profession’ of the lips of course – most ‘say’ they believe.. but by action: unconsecrated hands profaning Him.. how are your hands? ), changes in ordination rites as well as change in the consecration words ( the words were recently changed back BUT thanks to confessionals ripped out of most parishes and a ‘reconciliation room’ most won’t even use, and saying the ‘general confession during mass’ and hoping they’re ‘good to go’ and ‘receiving’ Him in mortal sin by the millions… it is by the Grace of God that the spotless host, Our Precious Lord’s Real Presence is NOT present at ‘mass’ during these end times. In Noah’s time eight… EIGHT PEOPLE were saved!! Will He find find faith on earth when He returns? yup. But not much… very few will be saved.

    • Mark from PA says:

      Lisa, you are preaching your own theology, not Catholic teaching.

      • PA, it is pretty much what the Church teaches, and you, PA, do not know what the Church teaches … because you fear what She teaches. You have to shut out what the Church teaches. St John, the disciple whom Jesus loved, and who sat next to Him at the Last Supper, and who stood with Blessed Mary Ever Virgin at the foot of the Cross, and whom Jesus appointed to take care of His Mother … This very St John told us in one of his Letters that even at that time there were many little anti-Christs running around. He also told us that we are in the end times, PA. That was twothousand years ago, and we’re still in the end times … you know nothing of Catholic theology, and you lie and lie and lie everytime someone brings up that which reminds you of your eminent judgment for your denial of doctrine and not only your denial of the foulness and evil of homosexuality but now your denial of the Gospel. In fact you continue to post denials of more and more foundational Catholic doctrine. Read the Gospel and weep, PA, because you have nowhere to go other than to a general confession.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Skai, perhaps you didn’t read carefully what Lisa wrote. Her theology of the mass is utter heresy. Instead of recognizing it, you said, it is “pretty much what the Church teaches.” What Lisa wrote is absolutely counter to the dogmatic teachings of the Church.

          But instead of taking a careful look at Lisa’s words, you utterly and viscously attacked Mark repeatedly calling him a liar. You didn’t point to a single lie, because you couldn’t. He has not lied at all, yet you went straight for a personal attack against Mark. You attacked Mark viscously instead of looking into the Heresies of Lisa.

          I think you owe Mark an apology, and all those who believe in the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

    • PA, you know little or nothing about Catholic doctrine. Lisa’s “end time” references are also supported by a well known Catholic, who said that we are indeed in the last days: 1 John 2:18
      Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Skai, Lisa said that Our Lord’s Real Presence is not present at Mass. But according to our beliefs Christ is present to us in the Holy Eucharist. This is a central point of Catholic dogma. Many Protestants may believe that Our Lord is not present at Mass but Catholics believe that Our Lord is present to us at Mass. Lisa is saying in her post that the Catholic Church today is a new Protestant faith. Read what she said. She is attacking the Catholic Church in her post.

        • PA, I missed it. Lisa posted: “it is by the Grace of God that the spotless host, Our Precious Lord’s Real Presence is NOT present at ‘mass’ during these end times”. I can see how Lisa would be able to explain what she’s talking about more clearly, so as to justify it in Catholic doctrine. But it is not clear that she knows or intends to proclaim Catholic doctrine here. Let her come forth and make it clear.

          • Skai, go back and read Lisa’s post in the seventh line where she refers to the “new novus order church as being Protestant. I think that is what Mark PA and YFC are talking about. On the other matters she is mostly right as many of the saints said there would be apostasy in the Church, and there are some priests, and perhaps even bishops, especially now in Germany, who have apostatized. Where she is wrong is that it seems she condemned all the post Vatican II Masses, not just the invalid or illicit ones.

          • Correction: novus ordo.

          • Mark from PA says:

            Skai, she wrote NOT in capital letters, it wouldn’t seem that she just made a mistake. You can’t really justify what she said in Catholic doctrine. She is expressing disagreement with a central point of Catholic dogma in what she wrote.

  38. If you guys really want to know how much of an uphill battle we faithful Catholics have with this here in the Diocese of SB, just do a google search for “Ministry to families with gay and lesbian catholics” (with quotes) and you’ll find the diocese’s very problematic website for this “ministry”. You will see links on that website to groups like PFLAG, THE TREVOR PROJECT, and other websites that promote both false non-Cathoic identities and immoral behaviors. Plus, on the “about” tab, you’ll find the names of the commission members, which includes the name of a very familiar priest.

  39. If one joins The Church, and it’s not because it’s believed to be God’s voicebox to His flock, it’s a faith like a house built on sand that washes away during a tide of whatever strength. It is the true Church, innocent and pure, despite the “old, white men” in charge of it. They can scandalize all they want and undermine faith by changing the culture to better match the world’s, but can’t change doctrine, because The Holy Spirit keeps it inerrant when its flock act in error of their own making or that of others in error. It has the medicine for us, because it is the hospital extraordinaire for sick souls, so much so even if a priest commit every sin to the nth degree, he can still administer the medicine for salvation for those who are of The Faith. If that’s not good enough, nothing else will be better. That is why I stay in. God be praised for the real vehicle for our salvation, from which the Bible came!

  40. Bridget says:

    I saw the movie. While I would not watch it again, I thought it gave a very unfavorable view of the homosexual lifestyle and did not glamorize it. I also thought Michael Douglas was unconvincing. Talk about playing against type.

    • Homosexuals crave being dissed, and so a homosexual movie that disses them still pushes their buttons and floats their gay agenda.

  41. PAUL S. says:

    CCC: ” 2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized.
    It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”
    Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others.
    Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing. ”

    Mt: 18:6; 1 Cor 8:10-13; Mt: 7:15; Lk 17:1

  42. Why don’t these bishops just “come out” like Archbishop Weakland has?

    I remember that Weakland had a boy-toy in Palm Springs just like Liberace had.

    On Sunday when you go to Mass, walk up to the priest and point blank ask him if he is homosexual.

    If he is truly manly, he will quickly say, “No.”

    If he is gay, he will leave in a twit or he will get angry.

    Either way, you get your answer! You can stop going to Mass there and look elsewhere until you find a good Catholic priest.

  43. Wow… so many ignorant people and hypocrites! Homosexuals are no more of a sinner than every single person here who has had premarital sex or impure thoughts. If you claim to be Christians remember Christ set the bar try remembering that before you start throwing your STONES!

    • Canisius says:

      I will throws stones at the gay mafia as hard and as much as I can… be judgmental

    • Kevin, your “gospel” flies in the face of that of Jesus Christ, who destroyed two entire cities of homosexuals who had attacked two of His angels. Homosexuality is condemned by the Church, and St Paul informs us that sodomy is the consequence of sin … A recurring pattern shown in OT books is the descent of a good society into institutionalized idol worship and adultery that consequently into institutinalized sodomy. That is the issue, Kevin, and for the preservation and development of society, the gay agenda needs to be eradicated.

      • In other words, Kevin, there is no gay worth sacrificing the well being of society for. You gays can keep pretending you have something to do with Jesus Christ, but the fact is that gays are the sign of desolation.

        • Anonymous says:

          There is no indication that Kevin is gay. Maybe he is just a…oh…I don’t know…a….Christian?

          • Anonymous, anyone who pushes the gay agenda is gay. Sin occurs not only in the act but in the interior of the soul, also an act but not a physical one. Gays, such as yourself, often do not even realize how obvious they are.

          • Anonymous says:

            Skai, that was not the gay agenda, that was the gospel. The gay agenda says that there is nothing wrong with homosexual acts. Re-read Kevin’s post. Also, I would disagree that anyone who pushes the gay agenda is gay. Sin does occur in the interior of the soul. Someone may push the gay agenda without incurring sin because of ignorance. Should someone push the gay agenda with full knowledge of the evil of homosexual acts and full consent of the will to do evil, they would be guilty of sin. And since the sin is grave, they might be guilty of mortal sin, but I do not know for sure. And Skai, you must have a very dysfunctional gaydar. (or you are just like the young ones now who say “That’s so gay” without even knowing what they are talking about.)

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Skai are you for real? What has happened to you in life that you think you can go around insulting people’s deepest dignity and humanity and claim it comes from Christ. You need help, buddy.

          • YFC, there is no dignity in gayness. Any idea you have of dignity is false. Gayness is abomination, the opposite of dignity. And, yes, YFC, I do need help, which is why I pray the Rosary. Are you gays jealous or envious of Blessed Mary Ever Virgin because you cannot match her, Our Lady Help of Christians? Also, YFC, what difference does it make to insult a gay, since they’ve already given up all their dignity, and mock God with vanity?

      • Adamantine says:

        Homosexual sex is a mortal sin…it cry’s to heaven for vengeance…sodomy is a gravely sinful perversion…

    • The difference, Kevin, is that the sinners who had pre-marital sex and impure thoughts are NOT going around and trying to get people to support their sins and trying to make their sins acceptable in the eyes of the Church. Also, deep down you must KNOW that (ACTIVE) homosexuality is a sin because you compared the sin of (ACTIVE) homosexuality to the sins of pre-marital sex and impure thoughts. You said, “Homosexuals are no more of a sinner than every single person here who has had premarital sex or impure thoughts.” You admitted right in this quote that homosexual acts are sinful. Who’s the ignorant person and hypocrite now?

  44. Years ago I saw some movie about Liberace, whom my mother adored. I don’t know how truthful that film was, but he came across as a troubled man, loved by old ladies, a Catholic, who care for his mother.
    When you are a homosexual in this world, especially back then, I’m sure life is confusing, but the truth is that we do HAVE homosexuals in the Catholic Church, the Mormon Church, the Vatican, etc. — so we can’t pretend otherwise. Hopefully, any books or movies about such men would show “the truth” in terms of what they are going through, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
    I have no intention of seeing this new movie, so I don’t know what was filmed in the church building, but if it was his funeral Mass, I don’t see the problem with that. We all die and, hopefully, we all get a funeral…

    • My parents saw Liberace as a silly ass.

      • Oh, my, Mr. Skai — they really shouldn’t have been looking at his derriere.
        But to each his own… :)

        • Susan, picture in your mind a donkey or one of the large breed burros. Even a camel would do … that is what my parents thought of Liberace. But now that I think about it, I should apologize to the animal kingdom for insulting them.

  45. juergensen says:

    “da qualche fessura sia entrato il fumo di Satana nel tempio di Dio”
    (“From a fissure the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God”
    OMELIA DI PAOLO VI
    Solennità dei Santi Apostoli Pietro e Paolo
    Giovedì, 29 giugno 1972

    bit[DOT]ly/eZlnIR

  46. So many here are so quick to condemn the Church one would think this was a protestant website. I heard a movie reviewer say on Al Kresta’s radio show that the movie not only did not glorify homosexuality, but showed it in all its sordid and dark nature and that Liberaci was a selfish egotist that sadistically used a young man etc. and that the reason it was probably shown on HBO rather than in movie theaters was that it was too truthful in its portrayal of homosexuality…and it wasn’t pretty. The money changers in Hollywood did not want this kind of exposure which wasn’t a sympathetic portrayal like the soft porn in ‘Brokeback mtn.” (my observation, not the movie critic). Also, I find it really sad that so many here condemn young men attending seminary as homosexuals…that is not only a cheap shot, it is untrue and unChristian. What is at issue is the egregious behavior of Bishop Barnes and this is what you should be focusing on. The vast majority of priests are not only NOT homosexual, they must be extremely long suffering to endure a bunch of whining weenies such as we see here who constantly carp everyday about the problems in the Chuch. I’d say WE”RE the problem folks…weak, negative, quick to condemn and not lift up our brothers who slip, constantly arguing among ourselves, and on and on. I find all this divisiveness and insensitivity really wearing as I find life is too short to waste on constant negativity and unkindness. Not that my opinion matters, which is a comfort for I have no illusions about knowing much, but the confirmed homosexuals’ and modernists’ intentions here are not to learn in the give and take of debate but to promulgate heresy with heavy handed bombast to drown out voices of opposition. That’s why they’ve gotten where they have in dismantling our society and our schools and especially our government. I see the liberal ‘voice’ as a mouthpiece of satan repeating the same restrain man has been subjected to for aeons…”I will not serve” in what on the surface is always a “new” way with “fresh and modern” ideas and the Word of God is always presented as boring OLD tradition and prejudiced and worn out and thread bare.

    • Anonymous says:

      Great post, Dana.

    • Dana, boys do not automatically become men, but have to work at becoming men. Thus, it is not wise to assume that a male in a seminary is a man. I met some seminarians a few decades ago in the Little Vatican area of Washington DC; some were acting boyishly silly and these were well into their thirties and forties, while another, who saw my consternation, confided in me apart from the silly ones, by declaring “I’m a man”. I knew what he meant, likely the others would have been mystified. This man probably went on to become a solid priest.

      • Skai, there is a powerful but short article on The Catholic Thing by Anthony Esolen thecatholicthing.org/columns/2013/sending-up-the-white-flag.html that is related to what you wrote here.

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Dana, I’ve seen the film and I can tell you it is an unflinching look at a terribly flawed man. Apparently a deeply faithful man, but deeply troubled. I don’t think (in fact I’m pretty certain) that what made him troubled was not his sexuality. And I think we see this in the film. His problems were the result of his life forced into a closet, the materialism of his act which apparently infiltrated his life (though he did have a generous spirit), and the general strains of living in the public eye 24/7. Trust me when I tell you it is not a flattering portrayal. It was difficult to watch. The only reason I could is because it is nothing like my life or the lives of most of the hundreds of gay people I know.

      • My mom used to love his tv show in the fifties, but I have to confess, even as a little girl he really gave me the creeps. He seemed like such a phony, but my mom loved the way he treated his mother. In a way he reminds me of Freddie Mercury of Queen, who killed himself after his mother died. Their dads must have been real stinkers, I would imagine!

    • Probably one of those “Let’s see if we can paint a pig and put lipstick on it, if it’ll make everything ok again” kind of moments.

  47. I guess the bishops haven’t as yet learned that when you make your bed with the Devil, you have to sleep with him too.

  48. This might contribute to why so many SoCal Catholics feel is is also permissible to vote for pro-abortion candidates. There is very little guidance from our local leaders.

  49. If its true Liberace was as an active promiscuous homosexual with a large pornography collection then (unless he repented) According to my Roman Catholic Faith this poor man is in hell (That also includes heterosexuals that may be promiscuous with a large pornography collection) and the good Bishop Barnes to use the Church in such a disgusting way is a very serious matter He needs to wake up and repent or he will be joining him

    • Anonymous says:

      It was reported at the time he died that he had received Last Rites.

      • Paul, we’re helping the One Without Sin cast the stones. Why don’t you get off your guilt trip and join Jesus?

        • That is a great line, Skai…did you just make that up? (‘we’re helping the OneWithoutSin cast the stones’) As we’ve said so many times here, judging is discernment and every day we must make a hundred various decisions about what is right and wrong…if we’re not judging, we’re just existing. Such non-discerning people are those ‘good men who do nothing’ in the face of evil, for they’re afraid to confront anyone or anything for fear of being judgmental. It’s merely moral cowardice, I think.

          • Hebrew makes a lot of play on words. Aramaic would seem to be the same, being so close culturally. Throwing or casting stones is like throwing or casting clay for pottery making. But it is also used to caste a role. They call the actors the caste. They are thrown into a play, ie caste into an imaginary dynamic. Peter was caste as a rock, upon which Jesus built His Church, of which He is the cornerstone. This is word play, but sometimes word play bears fruit. Having grown up with Jews of a rather elevated strata of society (in my neighborhood they were recuping from WWII and soon left those digs for vastly grander climes), by osmosis I somehow got used to the subtle word play and the mechanisms of how it can be done. Jesus caste Peter as His Rock of Salvation. But Jesus is also termed the Rock of Salvation: Therefore, Peter and Jesus share the most sublime grace provided for human beings … salvation. How does Peter share this grace, and what does he have to do with everyone else, all the faithful? Do we worship Peter or do we also share what he shares with God? Hint: Sacrament of union with God, namely the Holy Eucharist.

        • Anonymous says:

          The one without sin did not cast stones.

          • The One without sin caste St Peter, the Rock upon which He has built His Church. Anonymous, you need to git yersef some depth of Scripture understanding … those superficial intro courses simply don’t take you there.

          • Ie, you need to learn how to understand words better, Anonymous. Language is not only literal. In fact, language is not literal at all. Literal is a falacy, Anonymous. You cannot really understand language unless you take into account the many shades and categories that one word might mean. For example, in ancient Hebrew which the Old Testament was written in, and officially still is written in, that language has only 800 distinct words. Can you fathom, then, how there can be so much meaning in it? In Polynesia there are 25,000 distinct unconnected languages, plus the same number of languages which have some linguistic connections, but not with those other 25,000. You probably still do not get it about language, Anonymous; but, literalism is a ruse, a false thing, deceptive … and does not really exist except in the minds of children.

          • Now that was really interesting Skai, and quite profound! Very nuanced, as they say. So many miss things like that because they can’t read the Bible in its original Greek or Hewbrew. I enjoy Scott Hahn because he’s always teaching those subtle distinctions. Thanks, Skai…keep sharing!

          • The Torah, the Pentateuch, has over 14,000 distinct words.

      • “It was reported … “: Anonymous, you probably discern as well when reading what is published as the truth regardless of the source.

  50. Paul bauer says:

    Well, if you don’t like like the ” judge not” (from Scripture) comment, how about- you who are without sin, throw the first stone?

    • Paul bauer, Jesus already did that, He threw the first stone, and named him Cephas, the Rock upon which the Church is built. You might also avail yourself of today’s (6/9/13 sunday) Epistle reading for the TLM, which addresses judgment … wait, it was one of the Psalms for this day. Check it out, Paul b. We are being raised up from the Fall into the image and likeness of God, and God judges; therefore, the faithful judge. Gotta remember, dude, that when Jesus said that piece about “judge not, lest you too be judged”, it was prior to His crucifixion, resurrection, assent and initiation of the Church filled with the Holy Spirit. Try to understand context. One way to do this is to read the great saints, the doctors of the Church, the mystics, the Church Fathers … go for it.

  51. Adamantine says:

    The rampant gay subculture in the ministerial priesthood, is more than a mere scandal…it is the primary source of evil in the Catholic Church today…the seminaries are teeming with flamboyant, gay seminarian’s…”swishing” about the halls…just flaming away…beyond revolting…just shameful

    • I have a young friend who’s at the seminary preparing for the priesthood (St. Patrick Seminary in Menlo Park), and he has never mentioned this “swishing” culture to me.
      Perhaps it’s not present, or maybe he’s embarrassed to talk about it.
      In any case, my feeling is that such a thing has nothing to do with HIS dedication to Our Lord and Christ’s Church.

      • Susan, maybe you should dig into it with your young friend. Too many people did not do that, and that is what the perverts hid under for decades. Open the window. Do you think the topic would destroy your friend? Don’t you know that the Church needs men who can keep standing in a hurricane? There are young men who stand up and take bullets and ied’s to save their friends … and you’re worried that this young man will shrivel up and die at the question of swishing in seminary. That is the problem, Susan.

    • Adamantine, you might be mistaking normal office hallway culture for swishing. People who live their entire lives in office buildings and condos tend to move in a weird manner, but it is not necessarily swishing. The Church should come out with a pronouncement on the evils of creating office infrastructures.

      • Adamantine says:

        Wrong…they “swish”…like joto’s…this is a fact without equivocation…ain’t got nuthin’ to do with infrastructure mumbo-jumbo…

  52. Jim McCrea says:

    I have it from people who have lived in Palm Springs for years that Liberace was a daily mass attender and communicant whenever he was there.

    None of us know anything about the condition of his soul at anytime of his life. For anyone to presume that (s)he does is truly a sin in and of itself.

    • At any time where anyone is performing sexual acts (other than within a marriage between a man and a woman) he or she is in MORTAL SIN.
      It is an additional MORTAL SIN – SACRILEGE – to receive the Body and Blood of our Lord (being a communicant) while in the state of mortal sin.
      These are truths even if one were to attend daily Mass.
      It is also true that we do not know whether someone is in the state of Mortal Sin at the exact time of his/her death – determining Heaven or Hell. (This is judged by Jesus alone.)

      It is safe to say that UNREPENTANT persons who commit: adultery, masturbate, fornicate, homosexual acts, or use pornography are all in the State of Mortal Sin and will be condemned to Hell.

      • Mortal sin requires three conditions, Paul. Look them up in the CCC.

        • Yes, Skai – but because the Magisterium gives Catholics the CCC for our knowledge, there are four paragraphs that need to be quoted.
          There are no excuses regarding ‘ignorance’ of any sin – for the literate who have heard about the CCC and never taken the time to get one and read it.

          1) CCC: ” 1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice.
          Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.”

          2) CCC: ” 1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility.
          This is the case when a man takes little trouble to find out what is true and good,
          or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.
          In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits. ”

          3) CCC: ” 1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. ”

          AND
          3) CCC: ” 1491 The sacrament of Penance is a whole consisting in three actions of the penitent and the priest’s absolution. The penitent’s acts are repentance, confession or disclosure of sins to the priest, and the intention to make reparation and do works of reparation. “

          • What about “One good deed covers a multitude of sins”? James 5:20 Douay-Rheims Bible He must know that he who causeth a sinner to be converted from the error of his way, shall save his soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.
            [28] For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us, to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things
            Acts Of Apostles 15:20
            But that we write unto them, that they refrain themselves from the pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
            Acts Of Apostles 15:29
            That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which things keeping yourselves, you shall do well. Fare ye well.
            Acts Of Apostles 21:25
            But as touching the Gentiles that believe, we have written, decreeing that they should only refrain themselves from that which has been offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangles, and from fornication.

  53. If you want to be a good and faithful Catholic, regardless of the lack of TRUE teaching that may be taking place in your Parish and or Diocese, you must use the tools provided by the Magisterium.
    “In this Year of Faith let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more, by reading and meditating on the Scriptures, studying the Catechism, steadily approaching the Sacraments.” – Pope Francis, May 15, 2013.

    For those who need more information on the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” on the internet search: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”.

    • Much better stated, Paul. Makes sense now. The authority is in the Pope and the bishops; the written material is a reference.

      • The written material is required reading – there is no excuse of ignorance for the literate.

        • Hogwash, PETE. Your claim that the CCC is required reading is downright false. Your claim defies what the Popes say, what the Church has said for twothousand years. You’d send the Good Thief packing, once you got to Heaven; no doubt about it, since he didn’t read the CCC2ndEd.

          • Anonymous says:

            No one is saying the reading the catechism is necessary to enter heaven. Knowing the content of the catechism: the meaning of the Creed; the necessity and graces of the Sacraments, the knowing and understanding of Christian morality and the necessity and the way of prayer is what is important. Some people have been taught so well by family and parochial schools that to read the Catechism would be a good review. Others have been poorly catechized and would do well to read the CCC or the local catechism and learn the Faith. When you entered the Church, you should have been taught the Catechism. It does not matter whether you were spoon-fed it or given readings in the Bible and Doctors of the Church or given a Catechism. You may have entered the Church during the catechetical eclipse of the 70s and 80s when there was no universal catechism in use and confusion reigned high. Those who promote the CCC are not promoting the book as much as the necessity of learning the Faith.

      • The authority is in the Pope and those Bishops in communion with the Pope (Magisterium),
        however any individual Bishops not adhering to the CCC in entirety is WRONG and does not need to be followed – a wolf in sheeps clothing.

        The Magisterium has spoken in giving us the CCC.

        • PETE, do you think you could provide an example to illustrate what you and others mean by “adhere to the CCC”? Does one use duck tape or gorilla glue and stick the book on their head or back or something like that? Tell us what it means.

          • The Jews fastened little containers holding the Ten Commandments to their heads. So, I was thinking maybe the CCC2ndEd could be miniturized, well maybe in a thumb drive, and fastened to the head somehow.

      • Adamantine says:

        Wrong Skai…this written material is not mere reference…any more than the Douay Rheims bible is merely a “reference” work! Sacred Scripture is one of the teaching organ’s of the Church as is “Sacred Tradition”…I must admit… your take on Catholicism is interesting and somewhat amusing, if nothing else…

  54. Anonymous says:

    Skai – I don’t recall Jesus using violence, just mercy and forgiveness; “Go and sin no more”.

    • Anonymous try reading: Mk 11:15-16 = Jesus drove out those who bought and sold in the Temple, and overturned tables and seats. And He physically would not allow anyone to carry anything through the Temple.

    • Anonymous, I gave you a few Scriptures. You should read them with your eyes open, and you will see. You can look the verses up from the words I use; I do not need to be tricked into becoming a televangelist flipping Bible pages and rattling off the verse numbers. You do that.

    • Anne T. says:

      Complete it: “Lest something worse befall you.” In other words the Lord warned the woman he saved that if she did it again, he might not be there save her next time.

    • Anonymous, why are you so afraid of pain?

  55. Brian S. says:

    I wonder what, if any, guidelines exist for the rental of Church buildings as movie sets? There are certainly many movies that use Churches as sets, or appear to – The Godfather comes immediately to mind, and many of them portray immoral behavior.

    • The guidelines should be zero use of any Catholic facilitiy to be used in any manner other than for Church functions.

      • Attila the Hun stood at the gates of the Pope in that day and the Pope said “No way, dude”. And Attila and his boys hit the road.

      • Thanks for your opinion, Skai. I guess your assertion of opinion means you don’t know what the guidelines are.

        At any rate, your prescription would eliminate the concerts of Handel’s Messiah held at our parish near Christmas, so I’m not buying it.

        • Brian S., have you ever heard of the word “should” and looked into what its meaning is? You should do so asap. That way you would avoid more easily the temptation to jump the gun when attempting to clock me one.

    • Anonymous says:

      It appears to be up to the diocese or the pastor of the Church.

  56. Perhaps you would like to read the words on the clergy spoken by Our Lady to the Venerable Mary of Agreda as recounted in the latter’s The Mystical City of God – it may have been 6 centuries ago but equally relevant in our times:

    243. And to the greater confusion of the negligent ministers of the Church in our days, I desire thee to understand, that in his eternal decrees the Most High dispenses his infinite treasures of the souls through the ministry of the prelates, priests, preachers, and teachers of his divine word. As far as his will is concerned, they might all be angelic rather than human in their holiness and perfection; they might enjoy many privileges and exemptions of nature and grace, and thus become fit ministers of the Most High, if only they would not pervert the order of his infinite wisdom and if they lived up to the dignity to which they are called and chosen before all others. This infinite kindness of God is just as great now, as in the first ages of the Church; the inclination of the highest Goodness to enrich souls is not changed, nor can it be; his condescending liberality has not diminished; the love of his Church is always at its height; his mercy is just as much concerned at the miseries of men, which in our times are become innumerable; the clamor of the sheep of Christ is louder than ever; the prelates, priests and ministers are more numerous than heretofore. If this is so, to what is to be attributed the loss of so many souls and the ruin of the Christian people? Why is it, that the infidels not only do not enter the Church, but subject it to so much affliction and sorrow? that the prelates and ministers do not shine before the world, exhibiting the splendors of Christ, as in the ages gone by and in the primitive Church?

    244. O my daughter, I invite thee to let thy tears flow over this loss and ruin. Consider how the stones of the sanctuary are scattered about in streets of the city (Thren. 4, 1). See how the priests of the Lord have assimilated themselves to the people (Is. 24, 2), when, on the contrary, they should raise the people to the holiness, which is due to priesthood. The sacerdotal dignity and the precious vestments of virtue are soiled by contagion with the worldly ; the anointed of the Lord, consecrated solely to his worship and intercourse, have lapsed from their noble and godlike station; they have lost their beauty in debasing themselves to vile actions, unworthy of their exalted position among men. They affect vanity; they indulge greed and avarice; they serve their own interest; they love money, they place their hopes in treasures of silver and gold; they submit to the flatteries and to the slavery of the worldly and powerful; and, to their still lower degradation, they subject themselves to the petty whims of women, and sometimes make themselves participants in their counsels of malice and wickedness. There is hardly a sheep in the fold of Christ, which recognizes in them the voice of its Pastor, or finds from them the nourishment of that redeeming virtue and holiness, which they should show forth. The little ones ask for bread, and there is none to distribute (Thren. 4, 4). And if it is dealt out in self-interest or as a compliment, how can it afford wholesome nourishment to the necessitous and infirm from such leprous hands? How shall the heavenly Physician confide to such administrators the medicine of life? Or how can the guilty ones intercede and mediate mercy for those who are less, or even equally, guilty?

    245. These are the reasons why the prelates and priests of our times do not perform the miracles of the Apostles and disciples, and of those who in the primitive Church imitated their lives by an ardent zeal for the honor of the Lord and the conversion of souls. On this account the treasures of the blood and death of Christ in the Church do not bear the same fruits, either in his priests and ministers, nor in the other mortals; for if they neglect and forget to make them fruitful in themselves, how can they expect them to flow over on the rest of the human family? On this account the infidels are not converted on learning of the true faith, although they live within sight of the princes of the Church, the ministers and preachers of the Gospel. The Church in our times is richer in temporal goods, rents and possessions; it abounds with learned men, great prelacies, and multiplied dignities. As all these advantages are due to the blood of Christ, they ought all to be used in his honor and service, promoting the conversion of souls, supporting his poor and enhancing the worship and veneration of his holy name.

    246. Is this the use made of the temporal riches of the Church? Let the captives answer, whether they are ransomed by the rents of the Church; let the infidels testify, whether they are converted, whether heresies are extirpated at the expense of the ecclesiastical treasures. But the public voice will loudly proclaim, that from these same treasures palaces were built, primogenitures established, the airy nothingness of noble titles bought; and, what is most deplorable, it is known to what profane and vile uses those that succeed in the ecclesiastical office put the treasures of the Church, how they dishonor the High-priest Christ and in their lives depart just as far from the imitation of Christ and the Apostles, as the most profane men of the world. If the preaching of the divine word by these ministers is so dead and without power of vivifying the hearers, it is not the fault of truth or of the holy Scriptures; but it is because of the abuse and of the distorted intentions of those that preach it. They seek to compromise the glory of Christ with their own selfish honor and vain esteem, the spiritual goods, with base acquisition of stipends; and if those two selfish ends are reached, they care not for other results of their preaching. Therefore they wander away from the pure and sincere doctrine, and sometimes even from the truth, which the sacred authors have recorded in the Scriptures and according to which the holy teachers have explained them; they slime it over with their own ingenious subtleties, seeking to cause rather the pleasure and admiration of their hearers than their advancement. As the divine truths reach the ears of the sinners so adulterated, they impress upon the mind rather the ingenious sophistry of the preacher, than the charity of Christ; they bring with it no force or efficacy for penetrating the hearts, although full of ingenious artifice to delight the ears.

    247. Let not the chastisement of these vanities and abuses, and of others unknown to the world, astonish thee, my dearest, and be not surprised, that divine justice has so much forsaken the prelates, ministers and preachers of his word, or that the Catholic Church, having such an exalted position in its beginnings, should now be brought to such low estate. And if there are some priests and ministers, who are not infected with these lamentable vices, the Church owes so much the more to my divine Son in these times, when He is so deeply offended and outraged. With those that are zealous, He is most liberal; but they are few in number, as is evident from the ruin of the Christian people and from the contempt into which the priests and preachers of the Gospel have fallen. For if the number of the perfect and the zealous workers were great, without a doubt sinners would reform and amend their lives ; many infidels would be converted; all would look upon and hear with reverence and fear such preachers, priests and prelates, they would respect them for their dignity and holiness, and not for their usurped authority and outward show, which induces a reverence too much like worldly applause and altogether without fruit. Do not be afraid or abashed for having written all this for they themselves know that it is the truth and thou dost not write of thy own choice, but at my command. Hence bewail such a sad state, and invite heaven and earth to help thee in thy weeping ; for there are few who sorrow on account of it, and this is the greatest of all the injuries committed against the Lord by the children of the Church. (The Venerable Mary of Agreda, The Mystical City of God: Book IV: The Coronation, pp. 232-236.)

    • Catherine says:

      Gerard,

      “They seek to compromise the glory of Christ with their own selfish honor and vain esteem, the spiritual goods, with base acquisition of stipends; and if those two selfish ends are reached, they care not for other results of their preaching. Therefore they wander away from the pure and sincere doctrine, and sometimes even from the truth, which the sacred authors have recorded in the Scriptures and according to which the holy teachers have explained them; they slime it over with their own ingenious subtleties, seeking to cause rather the pleasure and admiration of their hearers than their advancement. As the divine truths reach the ears of the sinners so adulterated, they impress upon the mind rather the ingenious sophistry of the preacher, than the charity of Christ; they bring with it no force or efficacy for penetrating the hearts, although full of ingenious artifice to delight the ears.”

      Thank you. I copied this from a post on Catholic Answers.

      CITY OF GOD

      APPROBATIONS

      THE first Pope officially to take notice of “Ciudad de Dios” was Pope Innocent XI, who, on July 3, 1686, in response to a series of virulent attacks and machinations of some members of the Sorbonne, known to be Jansenists, issued a breve permitting the publication and reading of the “Ciudad de Dios.” Similar decrees were afterward issued by Popes Alexander VIII, Clement IX and Benedict XIII. These decrees were followed by two decrees of the Congregation of Rites, approved by Benedict XIV and Clement XIV, in which the authenticity of “Ciudad de Dios” as extant and written by the Venerable Servant of God, Mary of Jesus, is officially established. The great pope Benedict XIII, when he was archbishop of Benevent, used these revelations as material for a series of sermons on the Blessed Virgin. On Sept. 26, 1713, the bishop of Ceneda, Italy, objecting to the publication of the “City of God,” was peremptorily ordered by the Holy Office to withdraw his objections as, interfering with the decree of pope Innocent XI for the universal Church.

      The process of canonization of Mary of Agreda was promoted by the Spanish bishops and other eminent men of the Church soon after her death in 1666. It has resulted so far in securing her the title of Venerabilis, thus clearing the way to her beatification, for which, let us hope, God will soon raise a promoter among the many pious and eminent men who hold in esteem her writings and have learned of her holy life and of the miracles wrought at her tomb.

      The Redemptorist Fathers published a new German translation in 1885, which was approved and highly recommended by the Bishop of Ratisbon in the following terms:

      “We take pleasure in giving our episcopal, approbation to the annotated translation of the Spanish original “Ciudad de Dios” of Mary of Jesus and recommend this book, which will surely edify all readers and be the occasion of great spiritual blessings.”

      Ratisbon, September 29, 1885.
      IGNATIUS, Bishop of Ratisbon.

      Notable is the high recommendation of the Prince Archbishop of Salzburg, Apost. Legate, Primate of Germany, etc.

      “According to the decrees of Pope Innocent XI and Clement XI the book known as ‘Ciudad de Dios’ written by the Venerable Servant of God, Maria de Jesus, may be read by all the faithful.”

      “A number of episcopal approbations, the recommendations of four renowned universities, namely, of Toulouse, Salamanca, Alcala and Louvain, and of prominent members of different orders, coincide in extolling the above-named work. The learned and pious Cardinal D’ Aguirre says that he considers all the studies of fifty years of his previous life as of small consequence in comparison with the doctrines he found in this book, which in all things are in harmony with the Holy Scriptures, the Holy Fathers and Councils of the Church. The Venerable Superior-General of St. Sulpice, Abbe Emery, adds: “Only since I read the revelations of Mary of Agreda do I properly know Jesus and his Holy Mother

      “We therefore do not hesitate-in granting our episcopal approbation to “Ciudad de Dios”-and wish to recommend it to the faithful and especially to our clergy.”

      FRANZ ALBERT, Archbishop.
      Archiepiscopal Chancery, Salzburg.
      September 12, 1885.

      A more recent official approbation of “Ciudad de Dios” is from the Bishop of Tarazona, prefacing the new edition of 1911-1912.

      “We, Dr. James Ozoidi y Udave, by the grace of God and of the Apostolic See, Bishop of Tarazona, Administrator Apostolic of the Diocese of Tudela, etc., etc.

      Having charged the priest Don Eduardo Royo, chaplain and confessor at the convent of the Immaculate Conception of Agreda, carefully and exactly to compare the manuscript which is to serve as copy for the printing of the new edition of the “City of God” now about to be published by the religious of the above named convent, with the authenticated autograph manuscript of that work there preserved, and having ascertained by a personal revision of a great part of the manuscript that the said priest has diligently and faithfully fulfilled this charge imposed upon him by us:

      We now therefore certify that this present edition of Ciudad de Dios,’ with the exception of a few mere orthographic modifications, is entirely conformable to the autograph of that work as composed and written by the Venerable Mother Mary of Jesus of Agreda.

      Tarazona, April 7, 1911.
      JAMES, Bishop of Tarazona.

      Finally follows the official approbation of the Right Reverend Bishop of the Fort Wayne Diocese, where this English translation is published.

      Rome City, Ind., Aug. 24, 1912.

      The Rev. George J. Blatter, Dear Rev. Father:-

      My Imprimatur is herewith granted to your English translation of the work entitled ‘Ciudad de Dios,’ Wishing you every blessing, I remain,

      Devotedly in Domino,
      H. J. ALERDING, Bishop of Fort Wayne.

      • Dear Catherine,
        Thank you for posting the information on Sister Mary Agreda. I cannot agree more with what was said, “Only since I read the revelations of Mary of Agreda do I properly know Jesus and His Holy Mother.”
        It is a journey through the Catholic Faith that Jesus wanted us to follow and indeed gives a glimpse of Heaven. The teaching of Our Lady at the end of each chapter will edify the readers.
        May God have mercy on Bishop Barnes soul for his actions.
        God Bless

  57. 165 comments. 0 from abeca Christian. Getting concerned. She said she had been taken to the ER where she passes out and had been hospitalized over last weekend. She said she had something that ran in her family that could lead to death. That she was looking for natural alternatives to what the doctors were pushing her to do. I think we need to storm heaven with prayers.

  58. The comment from Your Fellow Catholic was uninformed. The movie may not be hard core porn but it includes scenes of rhinestone jock straps, genital fondling, naked-in-the-tub and porn watching—-all part of the homosexual “love” story as presented in Scott Thorson’s book.

    Liberace was not a lifelong Catholic. I attended Our Lady of Solitude Church and never saw him there. Our priest, Father William Erstad never gave Last Rites.
    We did have a memorial Mass in which we all prayed for his soul but his body was never brought to Church by his family who knew him well.

    When Msgr Rice was our pastor he would never have allowed our Church to be used as a movie set for a gay film.

    • Mary thank you very much for posting. None of the sources that I have found name the priest which gave him last rites. Father William Erstad is named as the priest who officiated at his memorial. Apparently Liberace did not attend Mass very often after a close brush with death in 1963 in which he had a vision of a nun who told him to pray to St. Anthony. He continued to pray privately. He had a chapel and shrine to St. Anthony next to his bedroom at the house across from Our Lady of Solitude and it was said the he prayed their often. He apparently believed that he would get another miracle.

      • The late Fr Erstad, of blessed memory.

        • Melo amphora says:

          I knew father Erstad…what a marvelous, saintly and humble cleric…

          • One of my non Catholic friends loved to listen to Fr Erstad’s rambling sermons, and would often attend his Masses. His Mass attendance has dropped off quite a bit since Fr Erstad died.

  59. A Pastor has no authority to rent out anything that is not approved by the Diocese Bishop.
    All Catholic Church property is in the name of the Church/Bishop in the land records of the local government.
    Common sense says that no Church should be used to promote Mortal Sin.
    It’s not difficult for Hollywood to make up a stage that looks like parts of a Church.

    • Slick move by the hollywood demoniacs, huh, Andrea? If the Bishop were holy, then he’d have seen it coming and given them the heave ho. One more reason that episcopates should listen to and bide by the Pope’s command to become holy. Command, because that is obviously what Jesus has commanded … we call it the Ten Commandments … Bishops who defy these defy God and defy rational being, and will go down in flames like … well, has the avalanche begun or is Mahony only a passing embarrassment to goodness?

      • If some Bishops (and Priests) have not read the CCC lately, they may not remember what “holy” means. :)

        • To find out what “holy” means, one needs only to pray to a great saint.

        • The reason behind my jumping on every blog that says something like “adhere to the CCC” is because there is a critical distinction between knowledge of Catholicism and practice of Catholicism. You read the CCC or the Bible etc and gain knowledge of Catholicism; but you pray and receive the Sacraments to practice Catholicism. Reading won’t make anyone holy, but humility in reception of the sacraments will bring the heart, mind, soul and body into line with the movement of the Holy Spirit. There really is no easy way to say this. St James, I think maybe, said it, “Practice the Word”. Maybe “practice” is what many bloggers mean by “adhere” … hopefully it is.

          • adhere means to believe in and follow the practices of. Obviously praying and the Sacraments are part of that.

          • Ok, then “adhere” means to follow the practices of Christ. How do you know what these practices are without following Christ? What would be the point of the Sacraments if all we had to do was follow the practices of Christ? The Evangelicals often follow the practices of Christ but do not avail themselves of the Sacraments, other than Baptism. Do you, ad 1, understand what the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist is? Why would you word your post so that it could be interpreted that you believe that the CCC takes precedence over the Sacraments?

    • Exactly, Andrea.

  60. Dixibehr says:

    How does a movie have a sexual orientation? How can a movie be “homosexual?” Does this mean that the DONNA REED SHOW was “heterosexual” sitcom? Or maybe, because she played a prostitute in a famous movie about WW2, was FROM HERE TO ETERNITY a “protitution” movie? Or maybe an “adulterous”movie?

    • Dixiqueer, explain what age group your seduction is usually used for, because it is really immature, like maybe for way pre-teens. Do you have a legal problem in your life?

  61. When the movie “Sister Act” was being filmed in St. Paul Church in Noe Valley (San Francisco), I’m sure the Archbishop of San Francisco had to give permission, even though some of the scenes seemed to make fun of the nuns and Catholic tradition. The good side of this was that the parish apparently got LOTS OF MONEY for allowing “Sister Act” to be filmed on their property, and they really needed the money, especially for maintenance, retrofitting, etc.
    Now, they have REAL NUNS living on the property, namely, those following in the footsteps of Mother Teresa of Calcutta!

    • Anne T. says:

      I thought that was wrong, too. It would have been better for them to have prayed for a better way of getting the money.

    • Susan, the Blues Brothers was a much better movie and had a better portrayal of a nun (the Penguin), and it did not use a Catholic Church, and the church scene was way better than anything in Sister Act. And what is up with the attitude that paying money to the Church in return for salvation is anything less than simony?

  62. Bishop Barnes is very charismatic, but wrong on most issues. His true colors have become apparent over the years and, as such, money to his coffers have diminished significantly. He taxes our parishes – which we can’t prevent, but he must confiscate our money through the general parish funds because we won’t support his fund drives – because his objectives are not keeping with the best interests of the church. He has also been very untruthful about what he uses the money for. So, I’m sure he received a tidy sum for prostituting the church’s facilities for this morally degrading movie. Money is what’s important, right?

  63. Tarcisius says:

    Jay S: Thank you for calling attention to the SB Diocese’s “Ministry to Gay and Lesbian Catholics”[sic] I just checked out the website and it’s clear that this group’s goal is to affirm individuals in false identities and immoral behaviors. And Fr. Kavkak is listed right on there as part of the commission members. The SB Diocese will not see another penny of mine for the diocesan development fund until this group is either abolished or gets a very serious overhaul.

  64. Those who adhere to the teachings of the Church in matters of Faith and Morals, will not do or write anything contrary to the contents of the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” in entirety.

    For those who are unaware of the CCC, and for quotes from our Popes, and links to the Vatican web site – on the net search: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”.

    • What is with this “adhere to the teachings of the Church” hyperbole? The teachings are meant to help us follow Jesus. St Andrew followed Jesus without any teachings whatsoever. Doesn’t anyone ever reflect on why that is?

      • Skai, St. Andrew was a disciple of John the Baptist.

        • Matthew 4:18 And Jesus walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother,
          Mark 1:16 And passing by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew
          John 1:40 And Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, was one of the two who had heard of John, and followed him [41] He findeth first his brother Simon, and saith to him: We have found the Messias. So, ad 1, don’t you think it a bit of a stretch to call St Andrew a disciple of John the Baptist? Looks more as though he followed the Baptist for a day or less and then became a disciple of Jesus.

          • Besides, St Andrew followed the teachings of the Baptist, who was pointing the way to the Christ. So, it was not really the Baptist whom St Andrew followed but the Word of God, Who is Jesus, but which was proclaimed by the Baptist. ad 1, do you follow the person who introduced you to Christ, or Christ?

  65. Adamantine says:

    My wife and I were at a local Greek festival this weekend…and got to visit and tour the Greek orthodox church with the priest as our guide, and viewed all the iconography…they are schismatic’s the eastern Orthodox, though they have a valid priesthood… they are schismatic because they believe that the Holy Ghost proceed’s from only the Father…not the Father and the Son…they are schismatic…they also allow 3 marriage and divorces in eastern orthodoxy… clearly they are not the “true” Church…they believe erroneously that we broke from them…uh-uh, they separated from us… we’re the “A” team…we trace our Catholic faith back to the year 33 A.D. in Jerusalem…

    • They also do not accept authority of our beloved popes. I think pride is at the heart of the separation. I loved Greece when I was there, but they fairly exude pride in themselves, their history and their religion.

    • So, Adamantine, you compare officially stated differences, but what about real differences? How many Catholic laity and clergy profess what the Church professes? How many Orthodox laity and clergy privately profess what Rome professes but publicly do not say anything about it?

    • The Orthodox Sacraments are valid; so what else is needed? Oh, yes, “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God”: Do we get that in the Roman Church all the time? No? Well, then what’s the problem? Maybe the Orthodox Churches have stood no less the test of time than the Roman Church? The Orthodox Churches did not pop up only a thousand years ago as Adamantine says, but from the beginning, twothousand years ago. There is a schism, which proves that the Orthodox Church existed prior to that; otherwise, it would not be called a schism.

      • Adamantine says:

        Wrong Skai…it was a “schism” because they “split” from the Catholic Church…nice try, but no cigar…your revisionist history is smoke and mirrors…smoke from the exploding cigar you just lit!…LOL!

  66. ” Those who adhere to the teachings of the Church in matters of Faith and Morals, will not do or write anything contrary to the contents of the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” in entirety. ” –

    This says it all and is the TRUTH of the matter.

    • MATT, you should place a copy of the CCC on a well lit table, and then set a camera 24/7 on it, and post it on youtube so that it will be watched every second to see if it gets up and goes and enforces what it says.

    • Matt, did you forget to put quotation marks around “This says it all and is the TRUTH of the matter”?

  67. I just finished reading the book on which the Liberace movie was based. It is truly a gay themed book. Surely, Bishop Barnes of San Bernardino read the book before giving approval to producer Weintraub and director Soderbergh to use Our Lady of Solitude church as a movie set.

    Could Barnes really trust two secular Jews to advance a Catholic message regarding homosex? Wikipedia says that Soderbergh is an atheist.

    Actually, Bishop Barnes was hoping to keep the whole deal as a secret until California Catholic Daily outed him.

    • Calif.CathDaily does much good not just for California, but the whole country. I can’t think of another website like it. I’ve tried to find one for the midwest, but so far no luck.

    • Melo amphora says:

      I’m sure after Barnes read it…he was convinced he had to do something to help create this “modern art masterpiece”…LOL!

    • “Bar nes” translates from Hebrew into “son of spirit”, or something like that.

    • David, whether Weintraub Is Christian or Jewish, he too is going against the teachings the Bible, (Torah, Law and Prophets and books of Wisdom) for all the Old Testament forbade and forbids the pracitice of sodomy.

  68. UPI: “In the Curia,” Francis said, “there are holy people. But there is also a stream of corruption,” adding, “The ‘gay lobby’ is mentioned, and it is true, it is there. We need to see what we can do.”

  69. Adamantine says:

    Rome is the seat of Christendom not Constantinople…the Catholic Church is the “true” Church…the orthodox “split” from the “Church” in 1053-4, and have never been officially reconciled to us…we have an unbroken chain of the papacy from Francis the I all the way back to Pope Saint Peter…even objective historians who are of neither faith recognize this reality…the Anglicans have done what the orthodox did centuries before…they have written a bogus history, in order to justify and rationalize their “split” from the see of Rome…albeit for different reasons…the Anglican is heretic, the orthodox is schismatic, the orthodox do of course have a valid priesthood…we are forbidden to worship or receive communion from their priest’s…Praise be Jesus Christ

    • The Sacraments of the Orthodox Churches are valid. So once again, sparing all the rambling information, what is the difference between official doctrine and the actual lived out doctrine, Adamantine? What has to be done before an answer is you have to actually understand what you’re writing about instead of merely regurgitating information. You’ll one day be asked by St Peter at the Pearly Gates and when you go to regurgitate, he well may cut you off and ask you to say what you yourself actually believe. The Judgment is individual not an evaluation by Heave of what the Church teaches. After all, don’t you think God knows what He has given the Church to teach??? Now at some point you will be required to come forward with what you yourself believe. You might begin your effort here and now.

      • Adamantine says:

        I’m not accusing them senor…don’t put words in my mouth…the Catholic Church defines the EO as schismatic…if you don’t like it, maybe you can refute it…I’ll be waiting…

      • Adamantine says:

        What I believe is simple…the Catholic Church is the true Church…started in the year 33 by Jesus Christ in Jerusalem…my profession of faith is the “Apostles Creed”…what is your’s Skai?

  70. Adamantine says:

    One more thing concerning the eastern orthodox…the gospel teaches that “we” are to go out and teach all nation’s…preaching the gospel. The Catholic church has done just that through her ardent and zealous missionary efforts over the centuries. You can find Catholic missionaries all over the world…universally (Greek for catholic)…baptizing, and confirming catechumens the world over, even in the darkest jungles of New Guinea, Oceania and Africa…how many eastern orthodox missionaries do you find in these far flung lands?…NONE!…i shared this with the Greek priest and reminded him about the appearances of the Blessed Virgin to the faithful…I can find no historical data to support Her appearing to any orthodox church members or her clergy…furthermore, they are clearly recalcitrant and obstinate in not accepting the primacy of Rome and the holy father as the “vicar of Christ” here on earth…they are schismatic…not the true church…Catholics are members of the “A” team…pure and simple

  71. Adamantine says:

    The EO also believe that the EO bishops are all of “equal stature” and not one has “primacy”…this contradicts the gospel teaching and the historical teaching and interpretation of Holy Mother Church…Simon bar-Jona’s name was changed by our Lord…to Peter, or Cephas, in Aramaic, the “rock”…Cephas and Cephas alone was given the “Keys of the Kingdom”, Matthew 16:19, by Our Lord…his primacy was established and vouchsafed by our Lord Himself!…the EO are schismatic’s…not a good thing that…

    • EO doctrine may be schismatic, but how can you accuse the same for each member of the EO Churches, Adamantine? I re posted my question above. See if you can work with it. It will be a strain, but maybe you can do it. If you simply fall flat on it, then go and read and study the works of Blessed John Paul II on the meaning of the individual Catholic soul. A lot of bloggers have lots of problems understanding that each individual member will be judged at the end. God already knows what Church doctrine consists of; He wants to know what each of us consists of … this is the judgment.

  72. Adamantine says:

    The Catechism of the Council of Trent: states. “infidels, heretics, schismatics, and excommunicated person’s are” excluded from the Church’s pale”

    Pope St. Pius the X clearly states: The the EO 1) embrace heretical teaching that they must abandon. 2) Are not united to the true Church of Christ due to their schism, 3) And, will not arrive at the port of Salvation unless they cast away their errors and join Christ’s one True Church, by submitting to the “Apostolic authority of the Papacy”. I rest my case…

    • Anne T. says:

      Those popes were talking about heretics, schismatics, etc., who were so through some fault of their own, not those born into heresy, etc. Thus there is culpable heresy and inculpable heresy, etc. Nevertheless, if any person realizes that the Catholic Church is the true Church, and it is, they are required to join it or face the loss of their soul.

      • Adamantine says:

        They are “culpable heretics” Anne…as defined by the Church…they reject the papacy, purgatory and the Immaculate Conception…they are heretic…as well as schismatic, this is a fact, without equivocation…as heretical as the methodist, baptist or any other flavor of protestantism…

    • Adamantine, you legalists may not understand it, but the mission of the Church is to win souls for Christ. You can’t do that by bearing false witness against entire classes of people. You have failed to understand that people are not the same as ideas. Jesus did not come to save ideas but souls. Your half baked theology omits some serious issues, the most serious of which I’ve laid out to you now twice. Jesus saves souls, not ideas.

      • Adamantine says:

        Claiming the EO is schismatic is not “bearing false witness” Skai…it is a fact, without equivocation…I sure hope you don’t teach catechism to neophyte’s…your theology is waaay off…

  73. Adamantine says:

    Furthermore…the EO is as heretical as the protestant…although the heretical EO priest has valid orders and Eucharist…they reject the Primacy of the Pope, Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception et al…because of this they are heretical in their teaching…it is a fact without equivocation senor…keep studying Skai…

  74. Adamantine says:

    The EO reject the Papacy, they reject Purgatory, they reject the Immaculate Conception…this makes them not only schismatic, but heretic as well!…they allow marriage and divorce and reject the teaching of the Trinity, that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and the Son…Catholics are NOT in communion with this false church…we are forbidden to worship with them and receive the sacrament’s from their priest’s…The protestant is heretic for rejecting the Church’s teaching on faith and morals…as does the EO…it is a fact without equivocation Skai…and it is most assuredly not nonsense. What Pope Saint Pius the X declared is most assuredly not nonsense…you had best be careful…you are beginning to sound a little “shaky” in your Catholic theology senor…what is your reason for attempting to defend the EO…seems kinda pointless and impossible…it’s like trying to defend Anglicanism…we all know the truth of the matter…

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