Controversy over Cardinal Mahony’s conclave vote reaches Vatican

Italians ask cardinal to re-consider trip

The following comes from a February 19 Religious News Service story in the Washington Post.
From Famiglia Cristiana

From Famiglia Cristiana

….On Monday (Feb. 18) Italy’s main weekly, the Catholic magazine Famiglia Cristiana, put the so-called “Mahony affair” on the home page of its website, quoting the petition by left-leaning group Catholic United calling the prelate to “stay home.”The magazine also asked its readers to share their thoughts on whether Mahony should attend the conclave. Within hours, the magazine received hundreds of answers via its website, overwhelmingly asking the cardinal not to come to Rome.“Cardinal Mahony should not only stay home from the conclave but retire to a life of prayer in a monastery,” read one typical comment. “It seems inconceivable to me that he doesn’t feel the moral duty to abstain from the conclave,” read another.

By Tuesday, Mahony’s case was on the front page of most of the main Italian newspapers, prompting the first reactions from within the Vatican.

In an interview with the daily La Repubblica, Cardinal Velasio De Paolis, the former head of the Vatican’s Prefecture for Economic Affairs and the pope’s envoy charged with reforming the disgraced Legionaries of Christ, said that “it will be up to (Mahony’s) conscience to decide whether to take part or not.”

De Paolis stressed that there is no formal procedure to stop Mahony from attending the conclave.

“The common practice is to use persuasion. There is no more that can be done. Cardinal Mahony has the right and duty to take part,” he said. “This is a troubling situation but the rules must be followed.”

According to De Paolis, only “someone with great authority” could advise “through a private intervention” that the retired Mahony not take part.

On Tuesday, the Italian news agency ANSA quoted Bishop Gianfranco Girotti, a former No. 3 official at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, as saying that “if his presence creates difficulties or embarrassment, then I think it could be opportune to renounce.”

“But the decision is up to him and his conscience,” Girotti added.

La Caramella Buona, an Italian group for victims of sexual abuse, also called on Mahony not to attend the conclave.

But in a Monday tweet, Mahony signaled his resolve to come to Rome.

To read entire story, click here.
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Comments

  1. Anton L. Seidl says:

    A man as compromised as Cdl Mahony should be banned from voting for our next pope.

    • Did you read the article? There is no ‘banning’ him from voting. As much as Id like to see him stay home, he probably has too much pride to do so.

      • R.B. Rodda says:

        You’re right. “Banning” Cardinal Mahony would require removing him from the cardinalate, which would be a very long and ugly process that would do nothing but bring him more notoriety and make him a martyr in the eyes of many.

        As the cardinal said: “The common practice is to use persuasion. There is no more that can be done… This is a troubling situation but the rules must be followed.”… only “someone with great authority” could advise “through a private intervention” that the retired Cardinal Mahony not take part.

        • Rodda, you are wrong. Even the heretical and schismatic NC REPORTER wants Cdl Mahony to stay home.

          This is something that most people are united in.
          Never support allowing bad Cardinals being able to vote in the conclave.

          CCC: “1759 An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.”

          If all Bishops did what is right – they would enforce Canon 915 to protect the Body and Blood of our Lord from Sacrilege.

  2. Abeca Christian says:

    AMEN TO THAT!

  3. Abeca Christian says:

    I always believe that sooner or later….we all have to face consequences to our actions….sooner or later…better now than not at all and receive a harsher judgement day.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      This is a test of humility on this Cardinal….if pride takes over, he will find reasons to go and defend himself but if he was more humble, he may stay to avoid further scandal. It will take great humility to actually resist the temptation to go.

  4. “But the decision is up to him and his conscience,” Girotti added.

    There was little doubt Cardinal Mahony would miss an opportunity to influence the conclave. This decision of his of course gives more ammunition to the enemies of the Church, who rightly raise the objection that Cardinal Mahony, who has left a disaster in his wake in the LA Archdiocese, will have a vote on the next pontiff. We must pray without ceasing to Our Lord, considering the number of modernists/heretics/liberals who will be voting for the next pope. Domine, miserere nobis. +JMJ+

  5. St. Athanasius says:

    Cdl. Mahony is just making a mockery of the Church. Under Church law he has every right to go unless told otherwise. To the rest of the world it appears that we are rewarding this man for his actions. He should take it upon himself and stay home.

    Perhaps the Church should change the conclave laws to only allow cardinals in good standing.

    • Maryanne Leonard says:

      I would agree with you, but the problem is defining the term. It would appear to me that the scandalized Cardinal is in good standing, depending on what you mean by that term. Maybe not with us, and maybe not in the eyes of the world or the members of the criminal justice system who know all about his crimes, but apparently with the Vatican.

  6. Cardinal Mahony is clearly demonstrating that he is completely devoid of the humility and integrity that should cause him to quietly disappear by his own doing until a new pope has been chosen.

    It is this lack of humility and integrity that has done great damage to those that constitute the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.

    Shame on you, Cardinal Mahony. May God have mercy on your soul.

  7. Juergensen says:

    For the Church, he should abstain. For himself, he will go.

  8. Because of his own hubris, Cdl. Mahony continues to disgrace the Roman Catholic Church. He should not participate in the conclave.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      He is not the only one…he is the most famous one, perhaps but I do recall others like him as well…..well lets not bash the Cardinal, lets pray for him to be lead by holiness and humility not pride.

  9. Maryanne Leonard says:

    Amen and amen. Cardinal Mahony is shaming Catholics of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and the United States of America in front of the whole world. Has he not damaged and shamed us enough already? He should have no hand in electing our next pope! Stand down, Cardinal, and get thee to a monastery!

    • Maryanne, you are in very dangerous waters with your judgements on the Card. or any other of God’s consecrated men. You and everyone else that is doing this, is taking the place of Jesus and He is the only one that is allowed to judge. +JMJ+

      • Consecrated men? He has brought grave scandal to the office of the ministerial priesthood and the College of Cardinals. What does this guy have to do for you to raise your hand in any kind of objection or dismay? My gosh man, have a moment of clarity!

      • Maryanne Leonard says:

        Thank you for your comments, JMJ. I am not judging for eternity the soul of Cardinal Mahony; that is the type of judgment from which we are all prohibited. In fact, I hope he becomes contribute, repentant, humble and that Jesus will see fit to save him on Judgment Day, and myself as well.

        However, I do have the right here on earth to fight evil by forming, holding and stating as forcefully as I desire my own personal opinions on people who assist people who rape children, and sorry to say, the Cardinal has done precisely that. I object! Do you support this? Are you for it or against it?

        I further demand that this man not vote for our next pope! He is unworthy!

        I am entitled, if not required, to decry and try to stop grievous sin when I see it! I am entitled to demand justice on earth for all human beings, most especially for innocent children. I am entitled to insist that our Church be kept clean in the name of the Lord.

        Were I to fail to do so, I believe I too would be an accomplice to grievous crime by default. I am not saying that you are an accomplice to crime by demanding my silence in the face of criminal abuse of children and staggering financial irresponsibility, but I do believe I have the right to denounce the sins and crimes of a Cardinal who has committed crimes against our innocent children and cause the loss of 660 million of our dollars.

        Sorry, JMJ, no offense intended, but I believe you misjudged the meaning of the teaching that we are not to judge. That refers to the judgment of the righteousness of the eternal soul of others and that is done only by Jesus Christ on Judgment Day. On earth, I am entitled if not required to stand against evil and promote goodness. I am about the business of the Lord in that regard.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Good reply Maryanne. God bless you.

          • Maryanne Leonard says:

            Thank you, Abeca.

          • Maryanne Leonard says:

            Abeca, I meant to ask God to bless you too, but sent my comment in too swiftly. We all need God’s blessing, that’s for sure. May God bless you and your family too.

        • Maryanne Leonard,

          Regarding your post to +JMJ+. Maryanne, That was such a beautiful response! Never once in any of your posts have you ever said that you are judging someone’s soul or have you ever shown any desire to make statements about judging someone’s soul. We realize that judging souls is strictly God’s realm. You are addressing the evil actions and behaviors that have been exposed because others also had the courage to speak up.

          Your morally excellent post is in total keeping with your baptismal promise and by virtue of your holy baptism you are entitled to align yourself with Jesus, Mary and Joseph by rejecting Satan and all of his empty promises.

          St. Catherine of Siena

          “We’ve had enough of exhortations to be silent! Cry out with a hundred thousand tongues. I see that the world is rotten because of silence.”

          • Maryanne Leonard says:

            Catherine, thank you. Your comments are deeply moving, and I can only hope and pray that when Judgment Day comes, Jesus will have mercy upon my soul and welcome me, and you, and all of us to be with Him in heaven throughout eternity.

            I hope every single person in the world will consciously seek to choose the paths of righteousness for His Name’s sake, even though I realize with sorrow that not all of us will.

            I fear for the souls of those ensnared in evil, including the souls of our Catholic ordained, and anyone who has fallen, as I have at times as well.

            I hate Satan, and I hate evil, and sin, and crime, for these things hurt people on earth and hurt the sinner’s chances of spending eternity in joyful union with Our Lord.

            I would never dare to judge anyone’s soul and cannot even tell you of the fate of my own. I do know that I am trying to avoid hell and consider myself a weak but determined and adoring soldier of the Lord.

            I am for goodness, light, love, beauty, kindness, responsibility, truth, and all the wonderful things you are known to me to be in favor of as well.

            I hate evil because I know the wages of sin is death, and I know that following that sort of death is an eternity in the fires of hell. However rarely heard that term is in this day and age, to ignore it does not make it go away. To stand up for good and laud it, and to stand against evil and decry it, is to be a humble soldier of The Lord. I am trying, I am trying.

            Thank you for your encouraging words, Catherine. They mean a lot to me.

        • Maryanne, I think you are interpreting the Scripture wrongly. We are not supposed to sit in judgement on each other. According to the Baltimore Catechism, only God knows whether a person has sinned. Cardinal Mahony did what they all did! It was the standard practice in the Church. It is easy to judge now what happened 30-80 years ago. Everyone has made errors that have negatively effected other people. That is why we pray “Forgive us our trespasses AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US! JMJ admonishment was a sincere attempt to remind you that how you jusge others is how you will be judged.

          • Maryanne Leonard says:

            Anonymous, thank you for your comments and your concern that I am misinterpreting Holy Scripture incorrectly. I suppose that is a danger at every turn, for much of Scripture is hard to understand. I am confident I am in the right to denounce evil, and I do not dare judge another’s soul.

            I believe you are quite wrong when you say,”Cardinal Mahony did what they all did!” Nope. I was an adult at the time, and it was always a crime to cover up crime. It was always known to any person at the time that the only way to keep our world safe was to call the police whenever ANY crime was committed.

            In fact it was much more automatic in those days to jump right away to the side of right than it is now, when people fear for their own skins and don’t call the police even when they see murder and rape or anything else.

            Listen to old KFI talk shows from the era and see what people, including hosts, were saying about Cardinal Mahony even then! Read old newspaper reports, or ask people like me who were adults at the time and recall clearly the horror of these discoveries and Cardinal Mahony’s stonewalling, reports of his transferring priests, and rumors of his suspected criminal activities in refusing to cooperate with police! These things are matters of public record.

            A refusal to judge on an earthly level would lead to hell on earth, Anonymous. The stance you take is taken by people who are the cause of hung juries; in those cases, there is usually a naive person or a bleeding heart liberal who won’t sit in judgment of a person’s culpability. I am not judging a soul, Anonymous; I am being a responsible member of society.

            I am am trying to be a responsible member of the Catholic Church, and as so, I am willing to denounce sin and evil when I see it, denounce it as wrong, and call for it to be removed from my beloved church! In that regard, I am in league with both Archbishop Gomez and Pope Benedict and I believe with most thinking Catholics. I am not in error; the sinners and criminals are.

          • Maryanne Leonard says:

            I meant to say that I am glad when people’s souls are saved, as I would hope all are, and do not judge the souls of anyone involved in these cases, as that is the province of the Lord.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Anonymous you are correct… on the only part that says “I THINK”.

            Maryanne you are fine on the points you made… God bless you.

          • “We are not supposed to sit in judgement on each other.”

            No wonder the scandals flourished! Beware of those who try to shine a crooked light on others while hiding under a dark bushel of anonymity.

            According to anonymous, very bad doctors who kill patients should not be judged. Just keep quiet and let them continue to harm others with serial malpractice. Do not report them to the AMA or do not warn friends or patients who are seeking treatment from an incompetent physician or surgeon.

            Diagnosis: Fear of Maryanne’s gifted ability to expose nonsense!

          • Maryanne Leonard, you are saying one thing and doing another. However, I am indebted to you for today was the first time that I have been able to say “It was his fault.”

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Maryanne thank you so much…much welcomed…all the blessings and prayers are always welcomed and much needed….: )

  10. If Cardinal Mahony was truly repentant, and if he truly cared about the Church rather than himself — then he would stay home, and stop writing publicly on his blogs and not give public interviews. He would devote his life to private prayer.

    Cardinal Mahony does not have the “duty” to take part in the Conclave. He can decline based upon his own actions that have caused grave embarassment to the Church, not to mention his taking money from the contractually dedicated LA cemetery maintenance fund to help pay his $660 million dollars in sex abuse settlements.

    Everything Cardinal Mahony did while in a position of power within the Church should be studied and reviewed.

    • Paleobotanist says:

      This man’s legacy is shocking…positively shocking…nothing…nothing about this man seems holy, virtuous or self-effacing…he is the very antithesis of what a holy cleric and shepherd should manifest…

  11. Simple solution. Pope’s final action – take away Cardinal Mahony’s red hat !

  12. Cardinal Mahoney should recuse himself from the conclave. There are other Cardinals who should do so as well due to their involvement with various scandals (e.g. sex abuse, Legionnaires, etc.). Mahoney and the others should find a monastery in order to repent and to avoid causing more scandal in the Church.

  13. It would seem this is one issue on which catholics of all stripes could agree upon: Mahony, go ahead and fly to Rome, but stay at a monastery there and pray for your brother cardinals at the conclave.

  14. Since when do we kick a guy when he’s down?

    • Laurette Elsberry says:

      Let’s think of some other guys we could kick “when they are down”: Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Jerry Brown, Mark Leno, Ammiano, etc. These are all people whom we have “kicked” for good reason. We would look for repentance on the part of all of them – until then, we will not trust anything they do.

    • djbyrnes — No one is kicking a fallen man. We are appealing to his conscience to do the right thing and stay home. That is saluatory advice, not thugggery.

  15. I personally feel that Cardinal Mahony is snubbing his nose at his critics and detractors. He ain’t stayin’ home!… uh-uh… he wants everyone to understand that “HE” is a Cardinal… is his “RIGHT”… somehow, I really don’t feel a sense of contrition from this man, based upon the ludicrous attempt at “faux” humility on his website… all this business about, “I forgive all those who are saying mean things about me”… boo-hoo!… And then claiming he is seeking humiliation this Lent… did he say HUMILIATION?… “You never become humble”… you die seeking humility… much like self-actualization… something to be grasped at.

  16. Fr. Gregory Coiro says:

    (Disclosure: I am biased in favor of Cardinal Mahony because I served as his media relations director. However, I genuinely admire him and nothing revealed recently has changed that.)

    Cardinal Mahony and Bishop Curry are being unfairly caricatured based upon documents that do not tell the whole story. Very often, the reason officials did not report to the police was because the parents of the victims asked them not to. After all, the parents could have gone to the authorities but chose not to. At the time in question, clergy were not mandated reporters so they had the ability to honor the parents’ requests. It is right for Cardinal Mahony to participate in the conclave just as it was right for Cardinal Law to participate in the 2005 papal election. He has admitted that he made serious errors and that he wishes he could undo the damage those errors caused, but he cannot. Withdrawing from his functions as a member of the College of Cardinals would serve no purpose other than to satisfy his vindictive critics.

    • Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

      Even if this were the case, as a Christian first and foremost, I think he owes the Church at least his withdrawal from public eye. If he has any love for the Church he needs to spare her the scorn. From a public observer (like me, a regular Catholic without any office) I tell you, whether you know the man or not, this looks really bad. If you are his friend, speak to him about it. This is not the time for his personal pride. This is the time to take up his cross and run to Calvary.

    • Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

      Fr. Gregory Coiro,

      You as a media professional know exactly how this looks. Give him advice and ask him to do the right thing.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Fr. with all due respect but this is not the only scandal that Cardinal Mahony managed to be caught up in…after all he is more liberal in his thinking and actions. That has not helped the church. I am concerned that any priest that may have been under his direction, will probably be close to liberal as well. God help us…the church is hurting because of modernist and liberalism.

      By liberal I mean lacking true Catholicism.

      • R.B. Rodda says:

        “…By liberal I mean lacking true Catholicism.”

        What a horridly inaccurate definition of the word “liberal.”

        • Abeca Christian says:

          RB, I was not defining the word liberal. I know what it means as well when it is not within Catholic domain but I was meaning that it has no place in our faith, the secular liberal views.

          • Abeca, I was not seeking to alter your post, but to add to it, to provide a perspective on another level. All this is certainly intwined with politics, and the platform of the democrats is evil and that of the GOP contains respect for unborn babies; yet, that is the surface of the politics. Under both parties, abortion thrived and sodomy became instituted. Both parties champion adultery and the worship of idols.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai I know you did not….you are a good soul. : ) Yes I agreed with you as well because what you added to it was better conveyed than what I can offer, you have a gift to convey well, I still need some improvement. God bless you dear brother in Christ.

      • Fr. Gregory Coiro, O.F.M.Cap. says:

        I ask you to visit http://www.shrinesf.org and read my writings and then let me know if I fit the bill as a liberal.

        • R.B. Rodda says:

          Father, were you the celebrant by any chance of the EF Mass following the West Coast Walk for Life at the shrine? I attended that Mass and it was truly wonderful…

        • It’s not a “liberal vs conservative” issue; it’s an evil vs good issue.

          • Moreover, to couch the issue of boy raping in political terminology such as “liberal” or “conservative” really is more of an evil than a good thing to be doing … unless, of course, the meaning of the word, “liberal”, has somehow morphed into the same identical meaning as the word, “evil”.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai you are correct especially when saying it is an issue of evil vs good. You are right… I didn’t mean to sound like I was making it an issue of whether liberal or conservative but one must admit that this Cardinal is well liked by many Democrats that match their platform forum in many modern views.

            There are good honest modern views but only when they carry the truth and God’s traditions that they are excellent but the mind set of today’s liberal views away from God, are what is hurting our faith… I’m afraid many are scandalized and are affected, many are becoming a byproduct of it. Even our Bishops, priests, Cardinals etc fall prey to them. And all due to sin… pride etc.

            Well not to take away from your point, Skai you are good to bring that up…I agree. God bless you!

        • Father, conservatives have caused just as much havoc.

          In fact, V2 failed not because renewal was a bad idea, but because V2 addressed form over substance. The church has internal cultural problems that this child abuse scandal makes abundantly clear to the laity. Otherwise, we would not have so many bishops across the world, independently making so many bad decisions all of the same type.

          Were this an admin problem, you’d have decisions ranging across the board. Here, we have multiple independent decision maker’s regularly aligning with the same reprehensible (and frankly immoral if not criminal) errors.

          And father, the no. 1 cultural problem that conservatives have promoted is secrecy and the desire to hide all problems behind the wall of the Church. This failure has cost the church massive amounts of moral credibility, not only with the laity and with non-catholics across the globe, but also with lack of transparency in the Vatican’s financial dealings.

          We keep getting told to “have faith” and getting assured that the shepherds are “taking care of it” and guess what, more and even worse problems keep coming to light. Not only in the area of child sexual abuse (with public scandals ranging back more than 30 years), but also with the Vatican bank (also more than 30 years).

          Still, you adhere to clerical silence and the desire to keep problems within the lodge. And, for all we in the laity know, the Church has still yet to accept that the problem is not just individual “bad apples” but within the culture of the priesthood.

          Right now, Roger Mahony is getting catching the brunt of backlash that properly belongs to many—not him alone. However, as a man who seemed to be a standard bearer for the toxic value of clerical secrecy even at the expense of children, he isn’t an unjust target.

    • You can’t be serious — You’re right, however, that the documents do not tell the whole story at this time as all the documents have not been released to the public & some never will. He should not participate in the election, but he will as the ‘old boys club’ still exists.

      • There is the “silent scream” of the babies being aborted. There also is the “muffled scream” of the boys being raped. God hears each of these screams, and supplies His bishops and priests and nuns and chanceries with the words and actions called for, but these words and actions willed by God die in cold hard hearts.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Skai yes also they usually carry that nightmare for the rest of their lives and it can also lead those poor souls into more sinful behavior because of what they had to endure….like drug use, sexual confusion, lack of trust, loss of faith in the church etc etc…..

    • You have answered some questions that I had. Thank you. I am sorry that Cardinal Mahony is going through this because it does appear that once he realized the right thing to do, he did it. I have to say that the reaction people have is chilling. I remember those times and everyone thought that it was better not to put kids through the ordeal of police interrogations and trials. As a survivor (early 70s), I could never had handled that and I am grateful for not having had to. Times change.

      • Anon, if you imagine the reaction of people disgusted with Cdl Mahony is chilling, try to imagine the reaction of a ten year old boy who suddenly finds himself being raped by some priest. Now try to imagine hundreds of boys being raped by hundreds of priests and bishops. Now imagine these boys being raped over the course of years by priests and bishops. Imagine these young souls screaming out from that evil snare for help. Try to imagine what those screams sound like to God and to Blessed Mary Ever Virgin. Compare those screams to the sounds of the Cdl Mahony’s of this world explaining how … explaining what … explaining about … Well, what exactly have these Cdl Mahony’s been explaining, Anonymous? I don’t know what they’re saying, and this I can explain by the words of Archbishop Gomez’ statement that Cdl Mahony’s deeds were evil and he has no excuse.

        • Mark from PA says:

          Don’t forget the girls and women who suffered also, Skai.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            That is True PA let us not forget all victims….

          • PA — I want you to admit here publicly that the majority of the abuse was done at the hands of gay priests… can you do that?

          • PA, you have never recognised that the issue with boys is not parallel as with girls: Because sodomy is a complete perversion of nature and supernature. Yes, sodomy comes about in a society due to society’s out of control practice of adultery and idol worship. Sodomy is the punishment by God of societies that have ok’d natural sex out of wedlock and worship of idols … societies such as the western world of today.

        • I was an 11 year old girl. But I do think it is worse for boys.

          • Mark from PA says:

            Canisius, I don’t know if that is true. From what I have read more priests were active with teen boys than teen girls but also more priests were active with women than with men. What I am saying is that the abuse of both sexes was evil. I get angry when I read some of the things that went on. I read of a boy named Daniel who was abused by a priest and the nun that taught him made fun of him and called him “Danielle” because she knew what was going on. It makes me angry that people covered for those creeps and didn’t protect the kids. I am angry at gay and straight priests who abused kids.

          • Anonymous, your experience is sad. It is mostly boys that the homosexuals go after because it is the males of our species who God has put in charge of His religion and His families. Strike the head and the body dies. Satan imitates the Woman who strikes at his head, and Satan does this by attacking boys. Remember what Herod ordered, which we call “the Slaughter of the Innocents”. Recall what Apocalypse 12 (Revelation 12) says about the great dragon chasing the Woman with Child. Satan is after the pope, Anonymous, becaue the popes are the ones Christ has instituted as His visible head on earth. And in Heaven there is nothing that Satan can do, as all its attacks have zero effect there; so, Satan attacks the head of the Church and the potential heads of faithful families, namely boys.

          • My phrasing betrays my intended meaning: When I said that Satan imitates Our Lady, what I mean is that he pretends or disguises himself in such a way as to deceive. Our Lady strikes at the head of Satan who strikes at her heel. So, subtlely mimicking Our Lady in this regard, Satan goes after the head of the Church, ie the Child aka Jesus through His priests, who are all men who once were boys. So, by an onslaught war against boys, Satan attempts to corrupt the Church which Jesus guarantees. In our day Satan has made an historic advance against the Church, which the Pope has described as loaded with filth, namely homosexualism.

          • Maryanne Leonard says:

            Anonymous, you were an 11-year-old girl when what happened? Am I missing something?

          • Mark from PA says:

            Skai, I think that the abuse was worse if there was physical abuse and force involved. I think the cases have to be looked at individually. In some cases, it was mild and didn’t scar the child as much. In cases where a girl was raped and got pregnant, the damage could be long lasting. I wonder how many bishops were involved in getting rid of the evidence when priests got a girl or young woman pregnant. It seems that not many priests were defrocked in the past for this, especially if they abandoned the woman.

          • PA a new report has been released by Polish priest exposing the gay corruption of clergy and how they destroy all those who oppose them, along with their hate for the Tridentine Rite Mass and theology that goes along with it… It is what I have been saying — this gay mafia must be destroyed once and for all.

          • Anonymous, the healing that you seek and need are found in the Sacraments, especially the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. I have observed many kids who have been sexually abused. The effects even years and years after the events stand out like sore thumbs … horrendous for the kids and horrendous to the observer also. Jesus brought dead people to life, restored sight to those born blind … “your faith will make you whole”. Jesus never said some priest or bishop will make you whole, but your faith in Him will make you whole. A little faith grows and never stops if you continue to nourish it. My blog attacks are always on your resting points … do not rest. Read better material, such as Imitation of Christ, or the mystics such as St Teresa of Avila, St John of the Cross, St Pio, then read the Doctors of the Church … at some point dig into Holy Scripture, which is more intense than any other reading material … and learn to interpret it according to the doctors and mystics instead of countless trickle down intermediaries. The one virtue of the CCC is its frequent reference to Holy Scripture and the Doctors of the Church. So why not simply go there first … to the Doctors?

      • Maryanne Leonard says:

        I too am a survivor of a horrific incident involving a priest, which led to my heartbreak and alienation for 40 years from the Church I loved and love today, and I say that your statement is wrong that everyone thought that this should be covered up, or that these poor kids should be raped and abused and left to twist in the wind while the priests got away with it. Most of us wanted this to stop! Most of us wanted this to be taken care of by both the police and the Church!

        I wasn’t sexually abused in this diocese at this time, so I am not a victim of Cardinal Mahony’s coverup of sex crimes; my outrage had already happened in the early 1960s, long before the hippie movement and sinful times on which the recent investigation tried to blame the priest abuse scandal. I was a sober-sided adult when all this priestly raping went on, and I, along with everyone I knew at the time, was furiously outraged that Cardinal Mahony had allowed such evil to exist, continue, and be covered up, as was being accused in the media even at the time.

        Don’t participate in Cardinal Mahony’s great whitewashing efforts!

        • I understand how the decisions to move predatory priests from one parish to another is infuriating. It is a decision that ruined the lives of many. Had they released the records when first ordered to, instead of fighting it, Cardinal Mahony would not be in this position today. He made the bed he is lying in. However, that does not excuse any Christian disobeying Christ. We are supposed to be better than those who yell “Crucify Him.” We are supposed to be victims with Christ. What happened to you, happened to Jesus. He was there. He did not abandon you. He suffered with you. I am sorry for how many people have had this suffering. And how many times Jesus has suffered it. God is love. He is in his resurrected Body now, but He still has His Wounds. From Them come the graces that we receive.

    • R.B. Rodda says:

      Fr. Greogory, I appreciate your comments. There ARE complicating matters that definitely impact and possibly partially mitigate the initial actions of Cardinal Mahony, Bishop Curry, et. al.

      But once it was clear to Cardinal Mahony (presuming it has become clear) that his actions were insufficient or simply wrong, he should have gone directly to the secular authorities. Spending $660M and years trying to cover-up the actions he took or failed to take is unacceptable! That’s what makes him an abject failure as a shepherd in my book.

    • Then by saying that Cdl Mahony and Bp Curry are being “unfairly caricatured”, you’d be contradicting the statement of Archbishop Gomez, Fr. Coiro. Also, media consultants for public relations media really do not cut the mustard for analysis of issues and events. PR is simply painting a smiley rose colored face on everything.

    • Horendo Mendoza says:

      Father, I greatly respect you and the work you have done over the years. I am a fan from the old “Religion on the Line” days with Dennis Prager. However, just because Cardinal Mahony and other clergy were not mandated reporters, they had a moral duty to protect the children and not to heed the wishes of their parents necessarily. If there is more information that could have then and now made things more clear, Cardinal Mahony should have released such information and avoided the appreance or actual coverup that is now in most people’s minds. Our clergy, including bishops and popes, are still men who sometimes make mistakes. Catholics are a forgiving lot by our nature, but it is clear that this scandal could have been prevented at many turns and Cardinal Mahony chose not to do so at those times.

    • What the parents wanted, is really not a concern of the Diocese. The law says that the priest who molests a child must be reported to the police. There is no excuse not to do that. Perhaps it doesn’t sound charitable, but that is the law and an Achbishop is not exempt from the law.

      • No it did not. They were not people who were required to report under the law at that time.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Anonymous is right, from what I gather, laws do change. But as a man of God, we hoped that he would act accordingly.

          Just look in the books, woman were considered property of their husbands so men could rape or beat up their wife’s and no police would come but now things are a little better to protect women from that type of domestic violence. If you watch the movie with Farrah Facett, (I don’t know if I spelled her last name right.) It’s a true story of a man beating up his wife and the law not protecting her because it was her husband. I recall watching that movie as a re-run with my parents when I was younger.

    • At last!! Someone that knows and speaks the truth. Thank you father. +JMJ+

    • Fr. Coiro, I’m sorry, but that excuse doesn’t quite wash.

      Certainly, I can understand not going to authorities when 1) you are not a required reporter and 2) at the request of the family. That is a valid reason for not reporting SOME cases to authorities.

      However, that does not excuse putting those same rapists, pedophiles and sexual predators back into positions where they had access to more children. Cardinal Mahony’s excuse for that one is that he “wasn’t trained”. While that excuse is somewhat like excusing jamming your hand on a hot stove time after time with the statement “no one told me to not put my hand on a hot stove”, let’s say we also give him that one too. Gross incompetence and stupidity are not immorality, after all.

      Hiding one’s gross incompetence and stupidity at the expense of children IS however, immoral.

      • Paleobotanist says:

        Wrong, it’s a crime my friend… he knew these men were sexual predators, they admitted they had sexually assaulted children… instead of reporting them to the authorities, and if nothing else, taken them out of active ministry, he proceeded to place them back into active ministry where they endangered and sexually assaulted still more children, which is a felony! If the statute of limitations had not run out, the cardinal might very well have found himself up on charges of child endangerment… and more, much more… “Better that a millstone were hung about their neck’s…”

  17. A wolf in sheeps clothing? Watch and see if there are any other wolves who will remain silent about this affair. Their silence is a sign of condonement for the progressive cardinal’s record, and a sign of the times for the future of the modern church.

  18. Vive Vendee says:

    It would be awkward for the Pontiff or the College of Cardinals to single out Cardinal Mahony alone for censure.
    V.V.

  19. The Vatican set itself up for this public relations disaster when it decided decades ago to stay out of the sex abuse crisis internationally and simply prentend it didn’t exist, while looking the other way and letting each cardinal handle it themselves. Now Cardinal Mahony will arrive at the Vatican to an army of media scrutiny, marring the occasion of the conclave.

    While they’re at it, tell Cardinal Law to stay home, too. Maybe they can play cards together and sip wine at the Vatican cafeteria while their brethern select the next Pope.

    Conscience schmawsense, the Vatican should bluntly tell Cardinals Mahoney and Law to find other things to do when the Conclave assembles.

  20. Seminarian William Tūlua says:

    It is very sad that the Church be hit with another scandal that had been going on for decades. I hope the Cardinal will withdraw from the conclave and stay at his residence. The church has been hit with too many scandals.

    • R.B. Rodda says:

      Exactly…

    • Maryanne Leonard says:

      Thank you, Seminarian William Tulua, for your comments, and for your choice to enter the seminary. Your comments are those of a sensible, intelligent, and sensitive human being, and I sincerely hope that you will continue in your studies and become an ordained priest. I salute your choice, and may God bless you always.

  21. Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

    The Holy Father has the right under Canon Law to take away his red hat. Perhaps this might be the Holy Fathers final Act?

    I hope as a son of our Most Holy Catholic Church, he would heed our Lord’s advice and seek forgiveness and spare Christ’s bride (The Church) public scorn, or save he Holy Father from having to force him not to come to the Conclave.

  22. Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

    Why does he not Just go away now? Please! Shut down the website and go away!! The Church does not need more scandal, Please please! Cardinal, just go away, we beg of you!!

    We have had enough!

  23. Horendo Mendoza says:

    Humility has never been a quality exhibited by this man. While I respect his authority and position as a bishop, at some point he must recognize the damage he has allowed to be done to his diocese and the people in it. He should retire to a life of prayer and reflection. It is sad to think that he feels he still has something to offer to the faithful when there are so many who never came forward with charges of abuse. How much more than $660 million would had to have been paid if they had. He has never shown any remorse or contrition for the scandal or those who chose to suffer in silence and forgiveness on their own. The cardinal should fade away in honor rather than continue to operate in disgrace. Abp Gomez has done well to relieve him.

    • Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

      More importantly the Souls he has lost for our Lord, and the many more he will lose for his master due to scandal if he is shown by the Media at the Vatican.

      Can you imagine the circus around him? Please, I hope he leaves quietly.

  24. Why would Cardinal Mahony do the right thing and not go to the next Conclave, when he has a fan club cheering him on? His biggest fan posting here is a Franciscan priest. What a scandal! Cardinal Mahony for years has mocked God by his disrespect and violations of the rubrics of the Holy Mass. Examples being the annual Religious Education Congress “Masses”. So you really think he would have respect for the office of the Papacy? I read an article in the Los Angeles Times that interviewed Catholics in the diocese. One lady said she was mad about how Cardinal Mahony handled the sex abuse of children, but was thrilled that he was going to vote for a pope who will allow women to be ordained priests, approve of artificial contraception, same sex marriage etc… So there we have it folks! The real motive behind the Cardinal’s fan club. All those years promoting heterodox speakers at his REC has paid off for him. So don’t be fooled by the Cardinal’s agenda for going to the Conclave. We are truly living in some dark times!

    • Susanne, because of the mortal sin of PRIDE, and total lack of humility.
      Caring about himself more than he cares about the Church.

  25. I believe in God. I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I believe that the Holy Spirit is alive in the Church. I trust the Church and I trust God.

  26. Michael P. Mc Crory says:

    In spite of so much scandal (in our Church) it is still hard to believe that ANYONE can find time to defend this Cardinal Mahony as some above do.

    We are left to wonder how a good man like Pope Benedict cannot see the powerful, hope-filled message he would send to us all and to the world in general by banning Cardinal Mahony and taking away his red cap. It’s a small start but a start nevertheless.

    Does the “consensus of the faithful” mean nothing anymore?

    • Fr. Gregory Coiro gives a different viewpoint above. Debate is a good thing.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Yes, it is good Gratias, I am glad to her Father Goiro’s opinion also. I think we need to remember that 40 and more years ago this was all secret, people didn’t talk about it so they were not aware of how common it was. It is painful to hear of all that happened but it is important that we become educated because the more that we know, the more children can be protected and such abuses can be prevented.

        • PA, are you saying that public relations propaganda is opinion? But why does God need public relations when He sent the Truth to die for our sins and live for our salvation? Do you prefer the realm of fanstasy and duplicity over truth?

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai excellent point! I love it! It was the Holy Ghost who put those words in your mind and you honored by posting…..awesome! You are speaking the truth and I prefer the truth!

        • Maryanne Leonard says:

          Mark, maybe 60 years ago people didn’t talk all that openly about something like sex, but believe me, 40 years ago – 1973? – you bet they did. Kinsey wrote his book in the late 1940′s, things were loosening up in the 1950′s, by the 1960′s things were going out of control, and everybody asked everybody else – what’s going on? No secrets! Only sharing, exploring, reading, discovering, going to therapy – by the late 1960′s there was no more reticense left anywhere, even among little old ladies at the time! By the 1970′s – good heavens, Mark – check out the old movies from that era – we knew words and concepts that only the well-read knew 20 or 30 years before that era. This Mahony business and the priestly abuses and cover-ups were not due to our being fuddy-duddies who didn’t talk about things. You’re mixed up with the Victorian era perhaps? Believe me, this was an intentional cover-up, and they knew it, as correspondence now reveals as final proof of my allegations. Sorry, this just gets me so steamed up, and I just can’t stand all this pretense that we were too uptight to speak about sex. Baloney! Listen to the music of the time, read the books! It was pretty amazing at the time, but it was not a world of pretenders and secret-keepers, in general.

          • Mark from PA says:

            You are correct, Maryanne, before 1960 people didn’t talk openly about such things. By 1970 things were a lot different. You are right in saying it was an intentional cover-up and they knew it. Some of the correspondence does reveal terrible things. I remember reading things Cardinal Law wrote, he spoke in a very demeaning manner about moms who complained about their children being molested, they were referred to as “hysterical women”. On the other hand priests who were abusers were thanked for their years of faithful service, sympathized with on their “poor health” and dealt with in a compassionate manner. I had to choke when I read a letter from Cardinal Law telling a pedophile that he surely touched many lives in his many years of service. Hard to believe.

    • Michael, the problem is that there is no consensus among the “Faithful”. Everyone thinks they are Faithful due to the following:

      Due to the lack of teaching and encouraging the reading of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edition
      on the part of our Bishops and Parish Priests, and due to the lack of excommunicating when absolutely necessary — to teach, and stop: scandal, heresy, schism, and confusion, many of our US Bishops have caused a great divide within our Church.

      All Catholics are required to adhere to the CCC in entirety, yet most have never read it. And in the USA some don’t even know it exists.

    • We do not defend any wrong that Cardinal Mahony (or anyone else) has done. But the whole of Christianity is this: Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, became man and died so that sins can be forgiven. He rose from the dead and sits at the Right Hand of the Father where he continues to intercede and make reparation for us. Included in His great Plan of Reparation is His Will to remain forever on the earth in the Holy Catholic Church, and in Her Sacraments, and in Her Tabernacles. We look to Him and to His Blessed Mother who also intercedes for us, as an example of how to treat Cardinal Mahony and others who have done wrong things through ignorance or fear. (And even malice.) This is the Catholic and Christian Faith.

      • Maryanne Leonard says:

        Yes, once the sinner acknowledges his or her sins, repents, and determines to go forth and sin no more. This is not the pattern of Mahony or the raping priests. They had a long-standing pattern of sinning, pretending, covering up, denying, lying, obfuscating, protecting criminals, mismanagement of funds and putting children forth so that priests could sin som more. You have Mahony and contrition mixed up. The two have not been properly introduced as of yet, but we are hoping our outcry will help sway the man toward righteousness, and then the forgiveness and welcoming to the fold can begin, and we can rely on the promise of the Lord to show him mercy when the time comes, assuming he does indeed go forth and sin no more, Anonymous. No more raped children – please!! No more lies and coverups – please! Let’s all pray that we can work together to clean house!

        Anonymous, there is a difference between condemning sin and condemning a person’s soul to hell. We cannot judge ANYONE’s soul! We can call sin sin when we see it and demand that it cease, particularly when it harms people – especially children and faithful Catholics! Heavens, my friend – how is this eluding you? I guess my words aren’t getting through. Can’[t decide whether to stop or keep trying, because the person we most want to get through to is not getting it either. Let us pray. Good can so easily overcome evil, but first the sinner must acknowledge the error of his ways. People accusing the accusers of sin . . . that’s just delaying the whole thing we’re praying for. That’s Mahony’s present posture, and it is both laughable and tragically pathetic.

        I hope Mahony stays healthy and lives long enough to come around. I think we all want him to see the light, repent, and die a happy and holy man whom Jesus will welcome as a good and faithful servant.

        • Marianne, read your posts again. God is trying to tell you something. You are on the cusp of getting it.

          • Maryanne Leonard says:

            Don’t be snarky, Anonymous, it doesn’t sell well. Just be out with whatever you think it is God is trying to teach me, please.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Marynanne this Anon character is pretty snarky if you ask me. How about this…maybe Anonymous is the one who should read your comments, maybe there is something he/she needs to learn. just saying…

          • You are criticizing someone for reporting the priests who harmed kids. Did you report the one who hurt you?

  27. Would each of you please send your names to the LA Times along with a list of the mistakes you’ve made and the sins you have committed? Then check with random individuals who do not know you to see if they think you are entitled to sit with your family at the dinner table.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Wow that is irrelevant…I don’t think many of us are running Christ’s church and looking the other way when children are being abused….I hope not. The church is on the spot light….it is suppose to be God’ light, so those running it should act accordingly. Jesus said to feed his sheep, he also warned against scandalizing children.

  28. thoughts on cardinal law?

    • Mark from PA says:

      Since Cardinal Law is over 80 years of age now, he is not eligible to vote in the conclave. I think it is a disgrace how he was given a nice position, has servants and lives in luxury in Rome. In my opinion it would have been better for him to work with the poor and live in modest circumstances to atone for his sins. It seems that he was protected by being taken to Rome as he is outside the reach of American law. I think higher ups who covered up are protected by Rome because years ago it was the policy to keep all of this stuff secret to avoid scandal. So in a way this led to more children being abused. Because of the public outcry, the way that this is being handled is changing.

      • You must not be aware that the Catholic Chuch is Roman. That means Italian. It is a long standing practice – centuries really – that one who needs to be gotten rid of is “promoted” to an insignificant job where he/she is out of the public eye. Americans don’t operate that way, I know. But if you are Italian, Cardinal Law was given the most awful “promotion” possible.

  29. If these comments are getting too serious, maybe it’s time for some humor … gallows humor that is.

    • Maryanne Leonard says:

      Skai, my friend … you have a fascinating mind, but with this post I must disagree. I don’t see any humor, gallows or otherwise, in the abuse that I suffered, nor in the sexual abuse of the boys and girls who were the victims of the priests.

      Tragically, once a traumatizing experience such as priestly abuse of any sort occurs, including sexual or even merely personal abuse, that trauma completely knocks the person to the ground emotionally and psychologically … for decades. The incident(s) haunt the victim so powerfully as to cause their worlds to be shattered. The lingering effects are varied but virtually predictably long-lasting; the priests have essentially committed a murder of that person’s normalcy.

      Serenity and peace are impossible for such victims; interior torment is excruciating. I tell you that I, a faithful Catholic from early childhood and a true believer, spent 40 years in the desert of agnosticism before I was able to return to the Church, and I am still fearful whenever I go to Mass; I cannot enter a Catholic church alone. And I am again a faithful Catholic, now 70 years old!

      Skai, there is nothing funny about what happened to me, nor about what happened to these children, and tragically, what is no doubt happening to them today and every day the rest of their lives.

      Sorry, friend — I can’t go along with finding humor in these tragedies of inhumanity to Catholic children by Catholic priests. It is a burden to a trusting child to try to sort out what happened and why that I would not wish it even on the likes of the criminally abusive priests or their greatest accomplice, Cardinal Roger Mahony. No one should have to suffer this lifelong torment.

      However, I am grateful to God for giving me such a tremendously heavy cross to bear, so that I can understand a little more fully how He suffered for our sins to redeem our souls. I am grateful for my Catholic education and my Catholic faith, which allows me to find the good in this evil, but I don’t believe that humor is to be found anywhere in these stories of criminal abuse of children by priests and their accomplices, no matter in how lofty a position these criminals are resting.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Maryanne, thank you again for your comments and helping to educate us. People need to understand that this is not a “homosexual” problem. Many girls and women also suffered. From looking at the John Jay Report it appears the 45% of the victims were teenage boys and 8% of the victims were teenage girls. Some 47% were children under the age of 13, a majority of these were in the 10 to 12 year age group, more boys than girls. Only a small percentage of the victims were under 10, with equal numbers of boys and girls as the youngest victims.

        • Maryanne Leonard says:

          You are right, Mark. Truth shines brightly, doesn’t it?

        • Abeca Christian says:

          PA it is connected to sexual sins (whether they were imposed upon or not) especially the MAIN one being of homosexual nature. So it is you who is in denial.

        • No PA you need to understand the overwhelming number of gay priests are part and parcel of the problem. I know you do not like me saying this, but gay men have ZERO business being in the clergy. Being a priest requires authentic masculinity, and that requires sacrifice of the self.

          An entire seminary was shutdown in Austria in 2004 after a massive sex scandal (yes that would be gay) broke. So please don’t keep saying it’s not a gay problem when it most definitely is …

          • Mark from PA says:

            Canisius, did you ever think that maybe there is a reason that God made gay people? Yes, many gay men are priests. Many of these men have a great love of and caring for people. Many of these men especially have given support and counsel to women and have had great empathy for them. Since these priests don’t have a strong sexual attraction to women, they don’t pose any danger to women. Our gay priests who are celibate and chaste are a blessing to the Church for the good they do for others and their sharing of the faith.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            LETS ALL BE CLEAR….GOD DID NOT MAKE GAY PEOPLE! Why blame God! That is a sin to suggest and a heretical one too!

            Man’s sins are their own fault! Unfortunately your ancestors sins are passed down…..

            Praise God for the sacrament!

          • I believe in God the Father Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth, of all things visible and invisible.

          • Mark from PA says:

            Abeca Christian, your “God didn’t make THOSE people” doesn’t fly with me. God made heterosexual persons AND homosexual persons. I am not blaming God. There is no blame to be had. It is not a sin to be gay. Some people still don’t understand this. You seem to be telling me that I am who I am because my ancestors sins are passed down and who I am is some kind of punishment. What religion does that come from?

        • THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2013

          The world is watching and the world is interested in the election of the Pope.

          Google Shameless Popery

          “How to Become Pope”

          “Here’s a viral video on the process of how a man becomes the pope. In the past two days, it has received almost 700,000 views:”

          Also scroll down website to read this beautiful writing from St. Francis de Sales

          Our Heart and Soul are Made for God: Why Settle for Less?

          “St. Francis de Sales’ Introduction to the Devout Life, which I have been reading lately, arose out of correspondence he had with a woman who was looking for help in living out the life of a Christian amidst the secular world. If anything, the book has become only more valuable since then, as secular culture is more hostile to Christianity today than it was in the 16th century.

          In Book V, Chapter 10, he describes in beautiful, almost poetic terms, the soul’s search for happiness in sin, and in God. I suspect that anyone who has ever searched for lasting happiness apart from God will be able to relate with his description of the insufficiency of that happiness. But Francis’ tone isn’t one of condemning sinners, but of calling them to more — calling them, in fact, to Jesus Christ:”

          Simon Vouet, Heavenly Charity (c. 1640)
          your soul is possessed of a noble will,
          capable of loving God,
          irresistibly drawn to that love;
          your heart is full of generous enthusiasm,
          and can no more find rest in any earthly creation,
          or in aught [anything] save God,
          than the bee can find honey on a dunghill,
          or in aught save flowers.
          Let your mind boldly review
          the wild earthly pleasures
          which once filled your heart,
          and see whether they did not abound
          in uneasiness and doubts,
          in painful thoughts and uncomfortable cares,
          amid which your troubled heart was miserable.
          When the heart of man seeks the creature,
          it goes to work eagerly,
          expecting to satisfy its cravings;
          but directly it obtains what it sought,
          it finds a blank,
          and dissatisfied,
          begins to seek anew;
          for God will not suffer our hearts to find any rest,
          like the dove going forth from Noah’s ark,
          until it returns to God, whence it came.

          • What you have posted is wonderful. I have a copy of this book right next to my computer. I think you should read the sections on overcoming anger or rash judgements or detractions. Also on humility and reputation-most appropriate on this discussion on Cardinal Mahony. God bless you. Avoid those who malign others.

          • Anonymous,

            I knew there was a reason for your inconsistency. Thank you for clarifying things.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Catherine you are correct…there is an inconsistency or there are several Anonymous…whew hard to keep up!

          • There is more than one person who posts using the anonymous default or typing in anonymous or a variant.

      • Sorry, Maryanne, and thanks for upbraiding me on this point. You’re totally right. There should be no humor on this issue … and upon reflection, there cannot be any humor regarding it.

        • Maryanne Leonard says:

          No upbraiding at all was intended, Skai. You’re obviously
          a very good and decent man and just expressed a need for relief from such a serious topic, and normally humor is a terrific source of exactly that.

          I was just trying to share the absolutely devastating impact on a person, lifelong as far as I can tell, when one is subjected to something as stunning as priestly abuse, of whatever kind. If you haven’t experienced it, I can’t imagine how you could be expected to understand fully, but this is a little murder.

          I was only trying to share my experience and opinion for whatever good it might do in edifying you and anyone else seeking to find a greater understanding of the victim’s experiences in these cases, even though my case was rather different.

          I sometimes see television personalities make jokes about these things and am astounded at how poorly people can understand what some other people have gone through. I suppose if we were capable of complete understanding, our compassion would be perfected as well, but alas, we are all mere humans.

      • Maryanne, you’re always talking about your age; “be anxious about nothing” says St Paul. I do not see for sure whether it is a case of anxiety or that you’re trying to convey the fruits of a growing lifetime of wisdom.

        • Maryanne Leonard says:

          No, Skai, I guess I meniton it for a variety of reasons, but none of them anxiety. I am astounded to have lived this long, grateful to have been so close to so many astonishing historical events or on the sidelines witnessing tremendous social change and upheavals, a certain amount of progress in some areas (especially in communications/technology, information, minority rights, worldwide interconnectedness, etc.), and am privileged to have this long-time perspective. Many people make comments in error or lacking clarity about the past, especially as regards the Church, and I am amazed that I have information that can help straighten thtings out sometimes, so I share it. I gained lots of wisdom compared to my youth, not not a fraction of what I could use, so I wouldn’t say I’ve yet attained a lot, but what little I have acquired (usually the hard way, or observing others learning the hard way), I share gladly in case it helps others avoid pain and suffering. Usually nobody listens, so it’s probably in vain! But if my information is helpful to others in any way, I’d be glad, as it seems a shame to have learned so many little things and have it all go to waste when I die! I just can’t believe I feel 18 and am actually 70! Some days though I can fully understand why Pope Benedict just can’t imagine how he’s going to keep on working, so I fault him not in the least. That’s a job for a man youger than 85.

          • Maryanne, your post reminds me of Acts, where St Peter says, “Silver and gold have I none, but what I have I give thee”. I suspect that St Francis of Assisi lived this verse.

  30. Adamantine says:

    Cardinal Mahony has a horrible legacy he leaves behind in the Archdiocese. Sadly, a Cardinal Archbishop leaves a “historical” legacy that city historians, state historians and most importantly “church” historians will analyze and conjecture over for years. Little if anything in Cardinal Mahony’s tenure, would indicate that he has set any holy example of virtue and piety, that all can look at and take comfort in as “spiritual” shepherd. It seems his name will forever be synonymous with child molestation, liberalism and a myriad of controversial endeavors…what was this man thinking? All he had to do was follow holy mother Church and her sacred traditions, instead he sought to buck the system and even courted controversy with his political machinations and malfeasance when handling the sexual assault of hundreds of children in the archdiocese. Shocking, positively shocking…

    • Maryanne Leonard says:

      Your points are 100% right, Adamantine, and thank you for bringing up the historical perspective. It is important for each of us to realize that we are here only for a time, that what we do is important not merely in terms of our own lives, but how we affect others, and they in turn affect others, of course. We are part of history and part of society, and our actions and words do have some lasting effect on mankind, however slight.

      The actions and words of cardinals and kings are noted well, written down, spoken of, studied, analyzed, and understood sometimes better than we can ourselves when viewed in the context of history.

      Thank you for your words; they resonated with me, and I am confident, with others as well. You are right; he could have avoided all this scandal, shame, hurt, misery, anger and accusation. It’s a simple matter of following the teachings of our Holy Mother Church, as well as the law of the land.

      • I would like to recommend a resource to you. “The Courage to Heal” is excellent but I always warn people that some of the contributors are lesbian and that bothers some people.

        • Maryanne Leonard says:

          Thank you, Anonymous; very kind of you. Yes, I have read it, among countless other books on healing from trauma. It is a good book. Good self-help books and tapes can sufferers in some way, as do therapy sessions, writing, and having a loving, supportive husband..

          Recovering from multiple traumas like mine, which involved several related crimes, can take a long time, like digging your way to China with a silver teaspoon, Anonymous. Two members of my family are dead as a result of what happened to me, and after 50+ years of suffering, I realize that a “full cure” from my traumas will likely not be mine on earth.

          I hope to gain the courage to write about it someday, though I fear further trauma to myself and others if I do; therefore, I am still uncertain as to whether I will ever manage to do get it all down on paper before I die. It would be so damaging, I just don’t know if I should.

          • I am sorry for all that you have suffered. Life’s tragedies are difficult to bear. We look forward to the Kingdom.

          • Just a reminder, Maryanne, especially in Lent, to unite your sufferings with those of Jesus on the Cross. This is always a “dangerous” thing to do; just look what happened to St Pio … God gave him a touch of the Cross in the form of the Stigmata.

          • Maryanne Leonard says:

            Yes, Skai, thank you, I do agree. It took me decades to realize that that was the right thing to do, and it helps tremendously, especially when I remember to do that.

            I don’t know why it tends to fade, but when I am reminded again, I humbly contemplate the gift of suffering for that very reason, and I actually become grateful for the suffering. It helps me gain a measure of insight into how terribly Christ suffers now and must have suffered then, knowing He came to us in loving concern to teach us how to seek the kingdom of heaven and spend eternity with the Holy Trinity and the vast communion of saints and loved ones whose goodness brings joy just to be in their presence.

            He experienced such a terribly painful rejection, denouncement, suffering and death when He should have been elevated by all who heard Him or heard of Him. We see that even today in the world around us, and it is grievous to witness.

            My own personal suffering has been, in that way at least, a humbling gift. However, I am not at peace even now, 50 years later, over the brutal and unnecessary death of my child and another beloved member of my family who died as well.

            I also regret the 40 years I spent wandering in the desert of agnosticism due to this shocking series of events, and I could have been a part of the Church again all those years, learning all the more about our wonderful faith.

            However, I am eternally grateful to have learned how terrible it is to be separated from the one true faith, and nothing on earth will ever again be able to cause me to allow that ever to happen again. Thank you for your excellent reminder, Skai, and God bless you always.

          • Maryanne, one day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day (St John). Same applies to 40 years; in Christ Jesus all things are made new.

          • Anonymous, the Kingdom of God is now. As they say, it is now and to come. It is both. Jesus is the Kingdom of God. Why wait? What would you be waiting for?

        • St Paul says that some members of the Church “were” (past tense) homosexuals. Give it up for Lent if you haven’t yet.

      • Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

        Your perspective is too eternal. The Cardinal Bishop’s world view is here and now.

    • CCD Adamantine lustre = Brilliant light reflecting & transmitting properties of truth!

      • Wasn’t Adamantine the son of St Augustine?

        • Abeca Christian says:

          I think it was…I don’t recall his name…..but it’s interesting that came up because I am now watching a movie about it, its a long movie so I am just barely on the first part and the other part I will continue watching on another day. WOW

          St. Monica and St. Augustine pray for us!

          • It was Adeodatus, who was the son of St Augustine, now I recall … or at least, my recalling is getting closer.

  31. Adamantine says:

    Cardinal Mahony … ever the modernist … as a post Vatican II “liberal prelate” he lived by the axiom… “I’ll do what I want… you do what your told”… he is now reaping the whirlwind of such arrogance… arrogance against the very magisterium that he is a member of! His open defiance against the “official teaching” of the Church concerning many liturgical abuses is only the tip of the massive iceberg, that is the “composite” of this wayward cleric! His secularization of worship, his flagrant disobedience to Rome and even the civil authorities, he is answerable to… yet he continues raving on his personal blog about embracing humiliation and forgiving his detractors… when the truth is so ugly, only a lie can be beautiful — quote from Demetrius and the Gladiators.

    • Maryanne Leonard says:

      You are entirely correct, Adamantine. Isn’t it a crying shame that you are? Don’t you wish you were not? I do.

      • Adamantine says:

        Yes, unfortunately Cardinal Mahony is a reflection of many of the dissident clergy that have burgeoned since the close of the Second Vatican Council. Believe me, Mahony is not an isolated case of a prelate that has has strayed and embraced “secularization”, at the expense of the mystical and sacred elements of our holy faith. His legacy is ignominious and sadly and shamefully… continues on.

  32. “CATHOLICS UNITED” is a heretical and schismatic group that actively supports Catholic heretics and schismatics in politics. They support the Party of Death – the Democratic Party. And work with “Network” — the schismatic Nuns, And support Kathleen Sebelius.

    Both “Catholics United” and “National Catholic REPORTER” have done a good job infiltrating the Vatican.
    These groups do NOT represent most Catholics in the USA.

    In the past they have been given support from Cdl Bernardin, Cdl Mahony, and Abp Weakland, and other fringe leaders.

    It is very important that Faithful Catholics learn from them – in getting to those at the Vatican to insure that the Vatican know the majority of practicing Catholics do not believe in heresy and schism, and support the reading of the CCC.

    (The only good thing is that most people do not want Cdl Mahony choosing the next Pope.)

  33. Adamantine says:

    I refer to NCR as “Pravda West”…horrible excuse for journalism and certainly not refelective of the traditional Catholicism that I practice and adhere too.

  34. Google FEBRUARY 21, 2013 The Brazen Clericalism of Cardinal Mahony
    by George Neumayr

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Thanks Catherine…..hope all will google!

    • Maryanne Leonard says:

      Catherine, thank you for this reference. I checked it out, and you have sent us to the best article I have read yet about this brazen cardinal’s unworthy shenanigans.

      It’s outrageous that he should dare to try to cast aspersions on Archbishop Gomez, whom he left with a mess unparalleled in the history of the Catholic Church in America, and whom he dares criticize for stripping him of his public and administrative duties. How dare he?

      I certainly hope the criminal justice system will bring this man to justice, as the tiny slaps on his hand he has “suffered” to date are entirely too limited, and his daring to take up the honor and privilege of participating in the election of our next pope is beyond appalling.

      Thanks again, Catherine. Your reference is measured but complete and well worth reading.

    • Poor Jesus! Nobody pays any attention to Him.

      • Maryanne Leonard says:

        What??!!! Anonymous, what are you saying? Virtually every one of us who posts comments on this forum is devoted to Jesus Christ and is extremely concerned about knowing, loving and serving Him well in our lives!

        Even those posting here with whom most of us disagree are, generally speaking, sincere lovers of Jesus Christ and are deeply sincere about their interpretations of the faith, which after all is merely an exquisite vehicle for the transmission of information about Jesus Christ and Christianity in its entirety!

        What would cause you to say such a thing? Just because many of us don’t agree with everything you post doesn’t mean you pay no attention to Jesus, nor would I expect anyone ever to think such a thing.

        Loving Jesus is what we are all about on this forum, and we are only debating and comparing notes with one another about how best to live our lives in such a way as to allow us to spend eternity with Him! Despite disparities between and among us, the one uniting element is that, with a few exceptions for trolls and destructive types, even the craziest folks among us ALL love Jesus!

        We are Catholics, and we care about our faith and want to devote our lives to Jesus in everything we say and do. Read between the lines, my friend, and you will see what I’m saying.

        • Maryanne Leonard, You said a mouthful when you said that those who post here are “deeply sincere about their interpretations of the faith.” The values that Jesus taught are forgotten Remember the parable about the servant who was forgiven a large debt and then went out and had someone who owed him a pittance thrown in jail? He told us “When you stand to pray, forgive anyone against whom you have a grievance so that your heavenly Father may in turn forgive you your faults.” As for all loving Jesus, “If anyone says “My love is fixed on God.” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. One who has no love for the brother he has seen cannot love the God he has not seen. The commandment we have from him is this:whoever loves God must also love his brother.” Jesus’ law is love and forgiveness. The nasty gossippy opinion piece that sparked this comment is not love. I don’t know what read between the lines and see what you are saying means. If it means I have failed to love and forgive, yes, I have. Often. I include myself in the one’s who do not pay attention to him.

        • Maryanne Leonard,

          Now you know the tactics that were used to drive out good seminarians who knew Church teaching or the ones who spoke up about perversion or the truth. There were those individuals who also tried to make the faithful candidates who spoke up against perversion the enemy by telling them they did not love Jesus and that they were uncharitable.
          The subculture is alive and very active and this is the reason for the inconsistency.

          Do you remember when you perceptively posted that you thought that those who were throwing stones were identifying with those who have same sex attraction and this is why Pope Benedict said that homosexuality was incompatible with the priesthood? Well, that is what is taking place here with the selective parables corrections.

          Please Google and watch Church Militant .TV

          Read the report: The New Pope & Homoheresy 02-22

          The new Pope will have to battle the militant homosexuals within the clergy.

          • When you get outed as unChristian, just insinutate that the person who corrected you is gay. There’s a solution. I guess it helps sooth their egos.

  35. If true, it’s fascinating that the Church overseas is even questioning whether Cardinal Mahony should take part in the conclave.

    In a way, this is a refreshing change from the “bad old days” when The Powers That Be would simply circle the wagons and proclaim anyone “evil” who challenged men in power, such as Cardinals — Paul called Peter on the carpet when Peter was “clearly in the wrong” about the Judaizers, and if the Church is now doing this with Cardinal Mahony, I, for one, say “hurray.”

  36. In CA, the penalty for not reporting is $1000 fine and/or 6 month jail sentence. If another person was killed or suffered great bodily harm due to the failure to report, the penalty is a $5000 fine and/or not more than 1 year in jail.

    • What about Cdl Mahony taking money from the LA cemetary fund (legally contractual obligation) to help pay toward the $660 Million in hush money and fines?

      • Paleobotanist says:

        He will invariably have to answer for this act of malfeasance as well…he better hope that he isn’t found guilty of embezzlement…in California their is no statute of limitations for this felony….

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