Tidings of discomfort and liturgical abuse

I am not a protestant

HoldingHands-e1322674534640The following comes from a December 28 story in the National Catholic Register.

This Christmas, I was delighted to have the opportunity to travel across at least three states to celebrate the joy of this season with my family. This was the good news. The bad news? I was pelted to a spiritual pulp by liturgical abuse after abuse. Because the Mass in my home parish is faithful, I have not had to endure this level of concentrated torture for some time — and, frankly, the shock was a bit much to take.

So I share with you here a list of the dastardly deeds of the ignorant, sloppy, slothful, unfaithful and the well intended. Each of these listed below is prohibited by the liturgical norms or other instructions from the Holy See or is an omission contrary to expressed guidance provided by the Church:

•   Changing of the prayers by the priest (absolutely forbidden).

•   Standing when the rubrics instruct us to kneel (diocese-wide disobedience to the Holy See).

•   Tropes repeated at the singing of the “Lamb of God” (recently clarified by the Holy See as inappropriate and forbidden).

•   Priests, deacons and laypeople scrambling around the altar before Mass with no indication — other than a few rapid half bird-pecks toward the tabernacle — that they believe that Christ is actually present in the tabernacle.

•   The use of an extraordinary minister of Communion when there were less then 10 people in a daily Mass that was presided over by an able deacon and an able priest.

•   Priests and people running around the sanctuary to offer the sign of peace.

•   No observation of silence before Mass, except at a midnight Mass at a faithful monastery.

•   Applause and praise to individuals at Mass during the Mass (directed at my own family, which was even more embarrassing). Here’s a quote from Pope Benedict on this practice (with my emphasis): “Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly — it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.” I was chastised by a parishioner for bristling at this and was told that the applause was to God. However, we were the only ones asked to stand and if the applause was directed to God, me and my family should be added to the ranks of the Blessed Trinity. I really do appreciate the sentiment — it was honoring and sincere — but if it is necessary or appropriate, please, please, please do this after Mass or some other time. The Mass is to bring us to worship Christ, not us.)

•   Hand-holding during the Our Father — with one extraordinarily silly, though I am sure well-intentioned, contortionist even reaching backward while facing forward in order to connect the two rows of pews. (This is forbidden on the basis that we are not allowed to add or change the Mass.)

•   Only one Mass of many offered “primacy of place” to sacred polyphony or chant. This Mass was at a monastery and was beautiful and liturgically faithful and Christ centered end to end. It was the highpoint and salvation of my vacation time.

•   A Sunday Mass that did not include a single Advent hymn (not an abuse, but the band leaders should be retired to a local piano lounge).

•   A priest who declared that Zachariah (the father of John the Baptist) was struck blind, not dumb. (No, this is not liturgical abuse, but the priest should be ashamed. It was clear that he had much to say but little concern for the central message of Advent and had not prepared for his homily.)

In the end, I have decided to begin using a particular phrase in response to questions about my expressed dismay at this madness: “Because I am not a protestant.” The implication is clear. Here’s how it looks in a real dialogue: “Why don’t you hold hands at the Our Father?” “Because I am not a protestant.”

I became Catholic because I recognized that the Church has properly claimed that it is the Church of Christ. The Church teaches, admonishes and instructs by the authority of Christ and 2,000 years of wisdom and guidance by the Holy Spirit. I obey the Church because I obey Christ. I am not a protestant who is free to make up whatever I feel is best without any concern for Tradition. I am a Catholic. I am unashamedly submitted to Christ and his Church. If you are not, you are not Catholic. Let’s stop pretending.

Care to fuel the fire of my outrage — or, hopefully, calm my nerves? What did you experience?

To read the original story, click here.

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  1. I joined an Anglican-use parish. That calmed MY nerves.

    • Thank the Lord, I left the Novus Ordo in tears several years ago. I consider it a “Worship of man”, not a “Worship of God”, especially with the priest, performing as on a stage, with his back turned from God ( the Tabernacle if there even is one visible). It is an hour’s drive for me to access the Traditional Mass but so worth it. I pray every day, for the return to the Sacrifice of the Mass and eliminating the “Community Meal with a presider”!

      • R.B. Rodda says:

        All you are doing is confusing matters…

        The OF Mass is every bit as valid and beautiful as the EF Mass if it is celebrated as defined by the Church.

        • The OF Mass performed where:
          1. Clapping for performances are not heard.
          2. Priests are not preaching Heresy in the Homily.
          3. All genuflect in front of the Tabernacle.
          4. Silence is observed before, during communion and after Mass for prayers.

          Then yes, the OF Mass is valid, although beautiful is left to individual taste. Sadly, what the writer witnessed, and so have I is sever liturgical abuse, and not valid forms of the Mass. You are confusing this issue.

          • Kenneth M. Fisher says:


            Where oh where do you find 1, 3, & 4 above at Novus Ordo Masses? I only find them observed at San Conrado Mission for the 1st and 2nd Saturday Padre Pio and Mercy of Jesus Masses respectively!

            God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
            Kenneth M. Fisher

        • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

          R.B. Rodda,

          Have you ever heard the “Prayers at the Foot of the Altar” now dropped completely in the Novus Ordo? Have you ever compared the “Confiteors” of the Tridentine vs. Novus Ordo? Do you not miss the “Last Gospel of St. John” the prayer that St. Cathernine of Emmerich said Our Blessed Mother told her would some day be dropped in A TIME OF GREAT DESTRUCTION IN THE CHURCH!. How about the prayers at the end of the Mass for the conversion of Russia, a conversion that obviously has not taken place yet.

          Even a well celebrated Novus Ordo does not hold a candle to the Mass of All Times, the Tridentine Mass, and I attend both.

          God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
          Kenneth M. Fisher

          • Yes..I adore the prayers at the Foot of the Altar, Confiteors,and those conversion of Russia prayers…were my fave…as Latin was recited but we did not know the meanings. Holy, Holy is our Catholic Heritage. And, the remnants will be the ones…I gather that is the converts, etc. who will support the Church to the end. I did like the English when it came in and rolled with what Magisterium said. Praise God…He’s allowing many things.

          • R.B. Rodda says:

            I put God’s Catholic Church ahead of my own ego. You should try doing the same.

            You’re simply not the arbiter for the Church of what is good and bad, better or worse. You seem to think the Church is a cafeteria — that you are free to pick and choose what you want to accept and it doesn’t work that way. Follow the rubrics!

            Actual liturgical abuse is a terrible thing. But whining about perfectly licit matters because one’s personal preferences are not upheld does nothing but confuse things. You need to put your faith in God through His Church and not on your ego. Follow the rubrics!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Rodda who are you insulting this time? This has nothing to do with ego? Are you sure it is not you whom you are referring too? Why are you so conditioned to think that some here are Cafeteria Catholics? Is that your only defense? It surely is not a logical one, If I may say so. Your comments are only to attack those who love the TLM. It has nothing to do with the fact that people are bothered with liturgical abuses now having made the norm in many parishes, except for more traditional parishes, we hardly hear of those scandals coming from there.

            Your comments are almost ones that come across as if you hate the TLM or to be more direct, they come off across as if you hate those that attend it. Jesus weeps at this indifference. Many accuse those who are more traditional for hating the NO mass but to be frank, I think it is the other way around, perhaps it is some of the NO attendee’s that hate those who attend the TLM. It’s very sad!

            Lets Focus on Jesus in the Holy Eucharist, and have mercy for the many who find discomfort in these abuses mentioned here now in-firming the Mass and in our parishes. It will take the faithful in good will to speak up no matter what, even if one gets attacked for standing up for what is right, to expose the error and we pray that our priests will be faithful enough to correct them.

        • Yes, Rodda, the confusion of much of the flock is the fault of bishops … read Jesus to find out how many times He is accounted to have explained this in the Gospels.


      I was an Anglican for 40 years but when they changed dogma by democratic vote and began splitting into many factions to join the other 32000 protestant denominations who have no authority, it was time to return to the One Holy Catholic Church and the fullness of faith.

  2. my goodness.

    our CHRISTMAS MASSES here were solemn and good for the soul.

    sorry you had such a bad time…

    • Bernadette says:

      Ì stopped going to my parish Church because of the continuous applause, and the final straw was when the priest in his homily said(Gospel;The loaves and the fishes) of course it was not a miracle, it was just people sharing.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Bernadette you should have reported him to his bishop. That is heretical what he said.

        • Amen, Abeca. It’s downright anti-Catholic! What a little coward to claim our Lord did not create a miracle of the feeding of the five thousand! Who does he think he is?

        • Report it to the bishop does not work. I tried writing our bishop and got a form letter in return. I doubt if the bishop even saw my letter. If he did he has no desire to curb abuses, which is why they exist in the first place. I am thinking the bishop has his mail pre-sorted to filter out things he don’t want to know about. I went to his website and there was no “contact me” in the site. In fact we can’t even ask questions in our archdiocese newspaper unless it is about an article that was printed in the paper. I pray for our Holy Father, bishops and priests daily.

      • Jill Clark says:

        Oh yeah, I walk around with fish in my pockets all the time, don’t you?

  3. Good news: Got to visit Carmel Mission where Bl. Junipero Serra is buried.

    Bad news: Deacon gave a homily on the feast of the Holy Family stating, “all families are equal” and “let’s face it, Joseph was an absentee dad. He wasn’t around at all.”

    Lord save us from ourselves.

  4. Abeca Christian says:

    I agree with this article. Especially in our Marionrite parish that I sometimes attend, people don’t know when to stand or kneel, some are standing and some are kneeling. They also do not pray the new version of the Apostles creed, and that is confusing to my kids because when we attend a Roman Rite Mass, then we get lost all over again. Of course when we attend the Latin Rite mass, then we don’t understand latin but we follow with the missal that they have there, and that is fine, at least in the Latin Rite there are no liturgical abuses at all, praise God!

    • R.B. Rodda says:

      I regularly attend a Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy and it’s sickening to watch the Tridentiners try to impose their own beliefs of what is good on the liturgy.

      Even though they have been taught what to do, they genuflect rather than bow before receiving Holy Communion. They seem to think they know better. They kneel on Sundays when they should be standing. Again, they believe they know better than the East.

      Huge amount of pride in these people and a desire to be noticed.

      • R.B. Rodda, you would be happy with me. I like St. Ambrose’s philosopy: “When in Rome do as the Roman’s do”, so when I have gone to a Byzantine Catholic liturgy, I followed their rules and the Latin Rite rules when I go to a Latin Rite and Extraordinary Mass rules when I go to that one, and I will follow the Anglican Use Catholic rules if I go to theirs. It is really not all that hard if the priests enforce the rules of their own rites. The confusion comes when they do not.

  5. “I am not a Protestant” is an ingenious answer but might offend many. Of course forming a human chain is Protestant, but it is done in most California Parishes. Although without my participation, unless it is a little old lady sitting next to me. I stand straight clasping my hands so people in general fear me; they probably think I am a madman. As for not kneeling when one should, this is the norm in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Applauding is normal in the Novus Ordo, although of course it is easy not to join in. Eucharistic Ministers are everywhere (I go to the line of the priest and receive only on the tongue after a brief reverence while the person ahead communicates). Brother Dan, if you are scandalized by these small things you have not yet heard the beat of the dreaded TAMBOURINES!

    The best remedy is the TLM but, regrettably, the one closest to us is a one-way 90 minute drive away and we can attend only once (or twice) a month.

  6. Dan – Perhaps Jesus should have followed all of the rules and not healed people on the sabbath!

    • Abeca Christian says:

      What is behind your comments lad. For in order for your comment to mean something it has to be logic and of truth. Are you not getting what this article is about? It is about liturgical abuses, which they do exist.

  7. Clinton R. says:

    Again, liturgical abuses come because when the modernists created the novus ordo, they wanted it to be ‘ecumenical’ and they de-emphasized the sacrificial nature of the Mass. As a result, the NO Mass has become the anything goes disaster most of us are subject to every Sunday. The NO Mass is about ‘feeling good’ and ‘let’s be entertained’ than about giving God our utmost reverence and adoration. Additionally, the NO milieu has lead to a poorly catechized faithful who sadly do not realize what has been taken from them. We never would have seen the likes of clown ‘masses’ if not for the NO. It has given license to those who disdain Catholic tradition to remake the Church in their image.

    • R.B. Rodda says:


      The abuses we talk about have absolutely nothing to do with the formulation of the OF Mass.

      Abuses exist because too many priests/pastors/bishops are no longer leaders. They have become bureaucratics.

      • Clinton R. says:

        Actually R.B. Rodda, it is malarkey to suggest the formation of the OF has nothing to do with the abuses we see. When the modernists radically changed the Mass, don’t you think there were consequences to be paid? Anything that is not planted in good soil will not produce good fruit. The Novus Ordo was created by Annibale Bugnini and his ilk to be pleasing to Protestants. That is fact. The NO Mass is valid only because of the indefectibility of the Catholic Church. However, it represents a vast departure from the Tridentine Mass, as does current Church praxis in most parts veer radically away from the Church pre Vatican II.

  8. R.B. Rodda says:

    Many of the things mentioned in the article (and far worse) are common at many parishes here in the Diocese of Monterey. I honestly don’t think Bishop Garcia cares about the liturgy. I know my pastor certainly doesn’t.

    The theme in my parish when it comes to celebrating the Mass seems to be GET IT DONE AND GET IT DONE FAST so we can be off to breakfast or the next wine tasting! Things are done quick and dirty, and as utilitarian as possible.

    By far the worst though are the entrenched liturgical “coordinators” at my parish Almost all are women, most are terribly incompetent and most have held their positions for years. They ferociously guard their little bits of turf (even amongst themselves) with the fire of hardened gang members. They have taken a terrible toll on my parish over the past 20+ years. I shake my head in sorrow at the number of people that have left the parish and in some cases the Church due to poor treatment by these reprobates. My pastor (and the 3-4 before him) is either afraid of them, and/or he simply doesn’t want to take time away from his golf game to fix things.

    In 1950 my parish had over 5,000 parishioners — far more than today. We had more Masses and more social activities like BBQ’s. We had a pastor, 2 curates, 1 parish secretary and a few religious sisters that helped with CCD. Today we have a pastor, a parochial vicar, 2 retired priests in residence, 2 permanent deacons and 15 lay staffers listed in our bulletin.

    The focus at my parish is on feeding this hideous bureaucracy and not on feeding the faithful in the pews. It’s almost like a country club for clergy and staff. This bureaucracy objectifies true evil in my best estimation. It’s just horrible.

    • Anonymous says:

      ditto in Temecula

    • I attend Mass from time to time in the Monterey Diocese and I have to agree with you. Once church offered Anointing of the Sick before every Saturday evening Mass for anyone and everyone who wanted it. All you had to do was kneel at the altar step and you would be anointed (I can’t recall if it was ‘gray panthers’ who did it, or the priest?) buy kneeling during any other time of the Mass?? Heaven forbid! There were no kneelers in the church! I have a medical condition where I can’t stand for longer than just a few minutes, so I finally had to sit, I didn’t like doing so, but I had to. The Monterey Diocese is also big on hand holding and LOTS of Eucharistic Ministers—was even at a church in the MD where the priest just SAT through the whole distribution of communion! It was given by all EMs!! I was flabbergasted!!!

  9. R.B. Rodda says:

    I sure hope we don’t see a bunch of posting about joining a EF Mass parish. I am so tired of having the EF Mass offered as some sort of silver bullet that fixes all ills. That’s pure bunkum.

    The responsibility rests with the bishops and the pastors. If they lived up to their jobs, if they acted as true leaders, there wouldn’t be the liturgical problems we face today.

    • R.B., I agree. However, the EF is a respite from an abusive English-language NO; maybe that’s why it’s called “Extraordinary.” I’m waiting for the day when the NO, in its original Latin language (and the people with their personal hand missals with English translation), becomes the normative and maybe that will please most everybody. We’ve all but forgotten the Latin NO, but really, there’s such a thing.

      • R.B. Rodda says:

        There is absolutely nothing “abusive” about the OF Mass. When celebrated per the written rubrics it is as beautiful and efficacious as any EF Mass or Eastern Divine Liturgy.

        The problem is too many priests feel they can do what they want, or even worse, do things as quickly and easily as possible when it comes to celebrating the Mass.

        I think comments like your’s and suggesting the EF Mass is some sort of silver bullet only confuses matters.

  10. Father Karl says:

    As a priest in good standing with my bishop, last year I had to endure all these liturgical abuses and more. You would think that the priest had some authority while he tries to follow the rubrics and ‘pray the black, and do the red’, but it was quite the opposite. I was not allowed to write the prayers of the faithful, the hymns were untouchable, and the kiss of peace lasted well into rthe distribution of Holy Communion. I was considered a moster because I instructed thed people thast we are Roman Catholics, and Not Methodist-Catholics or Baptist-Catholics. Horrible missalettes were purchased, with all the gender-neutral Christmas hymns used, and none of the readings were present, since we are supposed to hear and not read God’s word. What about the hard of hearing, which most of these gray panthers were? Instead of ‘God Rest You Merry Gentlemen’, we had ‘God rest you Merry People’. Even Barbara Streisand sings this carol correctly, as do any of the other pop artists. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has become, in most parishes, a three ringed circus. Why do I prefer celebrating the Tridentine Mass? Because no one can PLAY with it. Slowly but surely the faithful are leaving the Ordinary Form and are attending the ExtraOrdinary Form because few abuses occur during this traditional form of worship. A priest from the Fraternity of St. Peter once told me that within a few decades, the Novus Ordo will have disappeared, and the Tridentine Mass will be the only form around for the Western Church. When that happens, the churches will be filled with faithful Catholics who live their faith. We must understand that God is to be worshipped at Mass, not ourselves. We are at the foot of the Cross, not a MacDonalds’s Restaurant. We are to pray to God, not entertain ourselves at Mass. Until this is realized, the burned out hippies will continue to make the Mass a ‘love in’. These radical liberals, with their total disregard for liturgical norms, and their horrible hymns have made the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass a disgrace. No wonder Mass attendance is falling. May God help us to recover what we have lost.

    • I am employed at a Catholic parish and when the new priest arrived, he disbanded the liturgical committee. They were worthless anyway. He has the say if a group wishes to do any special things at mass. He makes the decision on the misselettes. He doesn’t particularly care for committees. At least when I attend mass there I feel like I am worshipping Christ, not a three ring circus at the parish where I and my husband are registered. The parish where I am registered just did a Kwanzaa mass and when I showed this to the priest where I am employed, he couldn’t believe it. He had a few choice words to say about it.

      • Good for this priest, Candy. We need many more like him. My philosophy is “Keep it simple”, go by the rubrics and do not make more work for yourself, such as washing the feet and hands of men AND women on Holy Thursday and stressing yourselves out because you cannot find enough participates. Some churches have actually done this. I am not joking.

    • AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! I had the privilege of attending a Tridentine mass during the summer at a parish some distance from my own. How I loved kneeling at a Communion rail for Eucharist and observing the reverence of those attending. I fear I will not be alive to see its “comeback.” I was somewhat surprised that this parish (staffed by an Order, not by diocesan priests) has been around for many years. I have lived in this state for 36 years and had never even heard of it. Thanks be to God that He lives!

      • Certainly, what you don’t see in the tridentine mass is the holy communion given to the hand…better said…the body soul and divinity of Christ being touched by dirty hands louded with germs!

    • Fr. Karl,
      I’m happy that you have a good relationship with your bishop. Then maybe with his support and ever so gently, you can turn around your liturgy to become more in tune with the rubrics.
      Your group of liturgists-terrorists must be told that the pastor is the chief liturgist of the parish and that’s that. But as I say, do it ever so gently, because I was told that once upon a time a new priest came to one of the parishes in my town and ordered that kneelers be installed in the church and that everybody must kneel for the Canon of the Mass. He was so dead right with his orders and would not budge even when the bishop intervened. And now he’s ministerially dead. (I mean, he was booted out of the diocese and sent back to where he came from. The Philippines, I think.)

    • Fr. Karl, as the priest celebrating the Mass, you have the power in the Mass to decide to extend the kiss of peace to the faithful or not. That the faithful give each other the sign of peace is purely an option according to the Missal. I have seen priests not use this option. They just go directly from the priest giving the peace to the faithful, to the Lamb of God. There is no giving of the peace to each other, the shaking of the hands, hugs, or scenes from the laity.

      Just tell the faithful before Mass, that when you celebrate Mass, you will not be using the option of extending the peace for everybody to give and to shake hands. That you will go directly into the Lamb of God after you say your part. It’s your decision.

    • R.B. Rodda says:

      The EF Mass was commonly abused before the introduction of the OF Mass. Burning through the Mass at warp-speed, skipped prayers, etc. were all very common with the celebration of the EF Mass.

    • max, how many Masses did you attend on Christmas in your parish? Based on your post, it sounds as if you attended all of them.

    • Fr. Karl, not only has the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass become, in most parishes, a three ringed circus, it has also no become “Our Eucharistic Celebration”. I doubt many young people even recognize the term “Holy Sacrifice of the Mass” anymore.

  11. Sadly we experienced practically the same as we had to visit another parish near us that we left several years ago when the abuses were bad, but not as bad as what we experienced Christmas Eve. The “cantor” at this parish looked more like a lounge act as she wore a short sequined dress accompanied by a piano, guitar and othe band instruments. They sang secular Christmas songs before mass while folks chatted and carried on clapping when they liked a song she sang. We tried to pray our rosary before mass but it was almost impossible.

    What made it even worse is that the Vicor General for our diocese was there condoning the music, the clapping and utter disrespect that went on. The extraordinary ministers almost outnumbered the parishioners and they worked so hard to “usher” us to the nearest EM for communion. I kindly declined and walked past them donning my chapel veil to the the line for the priest and promptly knelt to receive on the tongue. I could almost hear the gasps from those around me . .oh well.

    As I returned to my pew to kneel and pray after receiving I looked up to the crucifix as I always do in our home parish only to be totally taken aback to see see two baloons with a streamers attached on each side of the crucifix hanging from Jesus. I almost cried.

    And yes, sadly, like your experience, at the Our Father and sign of the peace as we stood stoically praying not holding hands we received many a cold look of disdain and disbelief. .. oh well . .I prayed for them and wondered why these people were here and not at the protestant church down the road.

    Our home parish offers the Latin Mass weekly where it is quiet, reverant and full of beautiful chants and Latin hymns; very Christ centered. Even the Novus Ordo mass at our parish is done beautifully and solemnly with the preist always facing East. . never the people. This Christmas Eve “mass” was a reminder of the blessing of what we have at our home parish and that much prayer and instruction is still needed for the church as a whole.

    Sorry to hear about your experience, but sadly, you were not alone.

    • Dear Chris, it is wonderful you dared kneel for communion. My main parish is very much like the one you described. I do not kneel because it would be too disruptive for them. I have been attending for 27 years and need to fulfill my obligation. However, I always go to the line where the Priest is and receive in the mouth. I bow deeply while the person in front is receiving communion; when I gather more courage I will kneel briefly while the person in front is communicating, have seen this done in Europe and it works well. Keep the Faith.

  12. Why does liturigical abuse surprise any Catholic? The Church is made up of imbeciles. The miracle is that She still exists after centuries of nincompoops. Surely we will see how glorious and omnipotent God is when we stumble into the next life despite uninspiring, sloppy Sunday liturgies in sterile, ugly churches among ignorant sinners.

    • R.B. Rodda says:

      They’re hardly “imbeciles.” Most clerics are smart and well educated. The problems we see stem from something entirely different.

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      It is striking to me how condescending some commenters are on this site. Prefer what you will vis a vis NO vs TLM/EF, but let’s regard each other with charity.

      • Anonymous says:

        YFC, I am not picking on you because the phrase NO is used a lot on this site and some who have no problem with Vatican II are picking it up as an abbreviation for the Holy Mass. It would be better to use the abbreviation OF for Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite. NO is short for Novus Ordo, which is a term used by SSPX and other Traditionalists. It is usually used in a perjorative manner The OF and the EF are the same rite. You are correct that charity should be in all things.

  13. I would encourage people to do what I did. Change parishes that actually does the right things. I go to a parish that is bursting at the seams, had to build a new 1500 seat church in which every Sunday mass is full and the mass is revered and holy.

    • R.B. Rodda says:

      That’s excellent advice and it works well for someone with options on where to attend Mass.

      Those options do not always exist though and it can make things spritually miserable for the faithful.

  14. Backtothefuture says:

    I have to words for you, extraordinary form.

    • R.B. Rodda says:


      That’s no universal cure. Around here attending the EF Mass is truly a painful experience. It’s a low Mass that is burned through at warp speed.

      The “insider” lay people who surround the priest are some of the most negative and bitter people I have ever met. If gossip, feelings of self-importance and mantillas could be sold by the ton, that group would be rich.

      • R.B.,
        I know exactly what you mean.

        The warp-speed Low Mass is a danger zone for the TLM Sunday Mass. I think that was how the Tridentine “died” in the 1950′s in the first place – no one really wanted to do or hear Gregorian chant.

        They didn’t think that the Mass should involve all of one’s faculties in “active participation” – the eyes to see the beauty, the nose to smell the incense, the ears to hear the bells, chant and prayers, the voice to respond to the priest’s invitation to prayer; the legs to stand at the Gloria, the Gospel, the Pater Noster; the knees to bend at the Canon and Communion, etc.

        No, quite a number of pre-Vatican II Mass-goers wanted only kneeling and silence (not even chanted responses) and praying the Rosary at Mass. They got impatient with the Graduals and Alleluias with long melismatic passages, so they flocked to the early Low Sunday Mass to avoid them.

        If such attitude happens again, the TLM will die again, no matter how holier-than-thou its mantillaed-and-necktied proponents seem to be. Sorry.

        • R.B. Rodda says:

          The EF Mass was re-introduced here shortly after Summorum Pontificum. I remember the very first one. Over 500 people there.

          Some people really putting on a show before Mass — prostrating themselves before the sanctuary, walking around with bitter looks on their faces, the whole bit.

          It has never become anything more than the Low Mass. They cannot attract/pay an organist, nor do they have a person (“sacristan”) to really see to all the details of preparing the church for Mass. It’s dismal.

          I still go a few times a year. It’s not a nourishing environment. It certainly could be if the pastor who is in charge of the parish was the one celebrating the Mass and not a retired, outsider priest.

          • R.B.
            I didn’t know there has been an EF Mass in my area for sometime, but the moment I did, I rushed to get there. The “core” group was so few – less than 20, but the Mass was as I expected. The elderly priest comes from another diocese and makes the sacrifice of driving the great distance from his home to get here. So right away I got involved.

            Having had plenty of training in church music (I was, even then, cantoring a Spanish weekday Mass at our parish) and thirsting for some Gregorian chant, I pretty quickly got everybody to join me in chanting the Ordinary. The altar server, a young friar, did the Propers solo (pretty good with the melismas, too) a veritable one-man schola cantorum. No organ accompaniment, but our venue is a mission chapel, so accapella seemed just right. And everyone looked happy.

            Until one weekend when we were all invited to a barbecue and I discovered that not everyone in the congregation was a “motu proprio” trad, and fireworks started. I’m a bi-formal (loving both the NO and the EF), so it was heartbreaking to hear SSPX-ers condemning the NO; sedevacs putting down “Summorum Pontificum;” etc.

            I thought it was necessary for me to do research on how these rad trad groups differ from one another, what they think of the Church, the Pope, just to arm myself in case another liturgy war erupts. So why do they go to an SP Mass at all, one that is neither integrist, conciliarist, sedevac, Lefebvrist, etc., if they think the badly of the Church and Vatican II? Strange, but that’s not my business.

            So I kept all this to myself and tried to get-along. If they are not kosher (are they schismatic, heretic, etc?) that’s their problem, not mine. The priest had been vetted by the diocese; our pastor (not exactly sympathetic to the EF) has seen his celebret and has given the space and time for this Mass. And that’s enough for me.

            And I would not let anybody run me over. There was a young man who told me that I wasn’t doing chant correctly and he offered to teach me. Yeah, right. I was schooled in it. He never came back.

            I am sticking with the EF in my parish because the NO has enough liturgists and other volunteers to help do a good job of it, but our EF needs some care and feeding.

            I think, you, too, should get involved in your EF, which looks to me like it’s just reach its adolescent stage and finding a lot of skin bumps and other blemishes on his face. It will mature, I assure you, if you will get involved.

            I had some lunch money to spare, so I ordered 30 copies of The Parish Book of Chant which CMAA sold to me at a discount. It has the full Latin texts of the Ordinary both for the NO and the EF, a large Kyriale, a generous number of general and seasonal hymns and Marian antiphons, Benediction hymns, etc. In addition, I make a handout leaflet of the Propers in English (and a couple of copies in Spanish) every week, because I don’t want to hear of anybody complaining that they don’t understand the Mass.

            I also made flyers showing the pertinent parts of Summorum Pontificum and Universae Ecclesiae to the effect that no one attending our Mass should ever think the NO as invalid, or the seat of Peter vacant, or that the EF is superior to the NO – Or they should leave.

            I haven’t heard any rumblings since.

          • Mouses, thank you for your service to the Church.

  15. I totally agree with the author. I can’t stand the ‘ sign of peace”. It is so disruptive at the most solemn part of the Mass. People shaking hands, waving across the isles, talking, kissing. I wish they would get rid of it, or at the very least, if they insist on having it, do it at the opening of the service.

    • R.B. Rodda says:


      That’s almost laughable. Control yourself. Offer the sign of peace to those directly adjacent to you. Then close your eyes, bow your head and clasp your hands. Done deal.

      • Moreover, the Sign of Peace moment should be extended to the parish hall for an hour for a party, and then back to the church for the rest of the Mass.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          I think that way before I was born, there were people who doubted in the real presence…so they allowed outsiders to give their input on how to make it more pleasing to man to try to keep more members in the church, but I see that it back fired, because of the compromise man has made for itself and because of that….now there are many who do not believe in the real presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

  16. Noella Durand says:

    People in our church still make the hippie peace sign, turning around to everyone in the church. And yes, the priest does too.

    • The hippy two-fingered peace sign is in actuality a code-sign for the visible female anatomy. If the inner side of the fingers face out, it means F me, and if the outer side of the fingers face out it means F you (or vice versa, I don’t recall). The two fingers also symbolize the horns of a demon whose name begins with B, which I won’t repeat here. Wake up people. The “little” cultural things are the luciferian invasion that Pope Leo foresaw in the late 1800s and against which he created the prayer to St. Michael.

      • Well, maybe so, but with both arms extended and raised half way and the peace sign on both hands, well, you’ve got R.M. Nixon at his departure on the First Helicopter. Whenever I want a laugh, I mimic that and the laughter erupts.

    • R.B. Rodda says:

      “Hippie?” Is that the best pejorative you can come up with?

  17. I went to the 10 am Christmas Day Mass at the Holy Spirit Newman Center near the UC campus. It was awful. Congregants ether stood or were seated during the Consecration. The seated included perfectly healthy and able-bodied young people in their 20s. But the presiding priest who, in a rambling monologue before he began Mass, made reference to “my daughter,” NEVER ONCE instructed the congregation that they should kneel.

    I will NEVER go back to that parish, ever again.

  18. Don’t waste your time “going to mass” anymore. Your arrogant, conservative and judgemental attitude blocked any possible grace that you could have received. You Nazi Liturgy Police will be the final nail in the coffin of the Roman Catholic Church and in time your prominence, money and control will ultimatley destroy the presence of Christ for the rest of us. Holier than the Church? Holier than any Priest or Bishop? Holier than God are you? Repent and believe the Good News!

    • Your nasty tone and knee-jerk gutteral repsonse speaks volumes, hattie. It’s not about “nazi liturgy police”… it’s about expecting the best for our Lord, Who gave so much for us. Many of the practices that you apparently approve of take attention away from Our Blessed Lord, and place it on the assembly.


      It is not Holier Than Thou to want and expect the Church to do what it should, and to follow directions from the Holy Father. If you choose to ignore him, then you are NOT in the Church. God Bless.

      • Do not waste your time correcting the antiCatholics who invade this website from time to time. This is their job; to create dissension and disorder among the Faithful. They are driven by the devil and do not care to hear any reminders of the truth.

    • Anonymous says:

      hattie, the author is a convert from Judaism. Your use of the word Nazi is beyond offensive.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        hattie I can see you being the one who would be angry at Jesus when he kicked out the people who were selling, they basically turned the temple into a swap meat. You need to re-examine your conscience to what you just accused those here who love the Lord. We are not perfect. You just have to be reminded that not everyone buys into modern day changes made by man. There is a big difference…

    • Kevin Ryan says:


      The ironic thing is that yours is the most arrogant and judgmental reply here so far. You are obliviously very angry; to the point that the only point you achieve in making is that you are very angry.

      What you are seeing here is people passionate in defense and love of the Catholic Church and what it teaches. Of course we are going to want fidelity from those who teach in Her name.

    • R.B. Rodda says:

      Rather than condemn, please pray for those that are obsessed with what THEY feel is “right.”

      • Abeca Christian says:

        R.B. Rodda you are one to speak! Aren’t the one who always condemns those who are more traditional?

    • It sounds like you were one of those kicked off the liturgical committee hatie. We’re all utterly over-whelmed by your love and concern and encourage you to join us often, as we could all use such a burst of a true witness of Jesus. Our gentle Mother must be so grateful for your guidance as well. My, but you must be a real brick in your home parish! Good luck, dear hatie. ;o)

    • justyntoo says:

      what we see in the church is what we see in society . our lord and our lady both have said to pray , pray much . it is good to feel zeal about the house of god , and it is good to go about house cleaning , one person at a time . speak to the pastor in a sincere and gentle voice about how it seems to you that , this or that might not be in keeping with the stated norms of the church . if he seems to be uncertain as how to change try refering him to this site . but to call names is less than what is needed to lead those that are honestly confused back to the truth . i am sure god bless’ you and your family and waits for your return .

    • Read what nazi, conservative ultra right wing nutcase, wacko, looney toon and ignorant St Paul says about the carrying on at these imitation liturgical parties.

  19. Robin G Plummer says:

    Christ peace be with you,
    I was glad and sad to read your timely article. I can’t believe the liturgical abuses that are now so common place in the Church and during the clelebration of The Mass. All committed by the priest and or lay. The reason appears to be that people simply want to do things their way. I agree that we as Catholics have been given a rich tradition and sound teaching. So why is the Mass and luturgical norms being absued? Sadly because we live in a culture that never wants to offend anyone. When will get to the point where we never want to offend God?

    My prayers continue for all in the faith that we may love the magisterium of The Church.


  20. More evidence of the liturgical destruction unleashed by Vatican 2 intended or not…..thank you Pope Benedict for the Summorum Pontificum, I have attended an NO mass maybe 10 times in the last 12 years. The TLM is the only way to right the ship period. Anyone who keeps experience this nonsense and sick of it should find a TLM parish (including SSPX chapel) or an Eastern Rite parish.

  21. Deacon Dave says:

    It is indeed sad that such abuses do take place. It is an indication, at least to my way of thinking, that the bishop is not well connected to his Presbyterate, Diaconate and lay ministries as he should be. And worse yet if he is not connected to them then how well connected is he to the people of God for whom he is the shepherd? Ultimately the people of God will pay the price for such folly as you sadly experienced. Priest’s and deacon’s owe obedience to their bishop, it is part of the ordination right, I know because I am an ordained permanent deacon. The existence of such abuses can be laid at the feet of the bishop but they ultimately are the acts of disobedient clergy, and in some cases, clergy who just want to be liked and lets face it who doesn’t, but that in itself is no excuse. Ultimately you will find in the heart of the one who disobeys there exists a lack of understanding of what it means to love, that wonderful encounter with the other, the encounter with Christ on the altar and in the pews. But on a lighter side, whether all these things occurred or not, rest assured that you did have an encounter with Christ, because the mass was valid provided the prayer of consecration was said validly and was with unleavened bread. Find solace in the fact that there are many of us who are faithfully true to the people of God and the liturgy, so that we might have that encounter of love…Deacon Dave

  22. I was a member of one of the most affluent parishes in Plano, TX where kneeling was not permitted (kneelers were never installed when the church was built), theater in the round type where priests and people processed around like Batman, the body and blood of Christ was never elevated during the Consecration, the priest asked the children during the school mass about having a woman pope someday. . . I could go on and on. However, I let my voice be heard including a letter to the Office of the Liturgy. One of the few consolations I had was seeing a young seminarian kneel on the floor during the consecration despite a request from a family member that he should remain standing. My family and I were there for five years–happy to be back in suburban Philadelphia.

  23. I don’t understand the part about tropes added to the Lamb of God. Can you explain?

    • Theresa Burke says:

      Google – Jimmie Akin – Vatican – Stop messing with the Word of God.

      • Theresa Burke says:

        Correction to former comment – Google – Jimmy Akin – Vatican – Stop messing with the Lamb of God.

    • Hi, Mary,
      Wherever the Mass quotes a passage from Scripture, it should do so literally – else, why quote at all? In the New Testament, Saint John the Baptist said of Jesus, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” So, the use of the words “who takes away the sin(s) of the world” should follow “Lamb of God.”

      True, Jesus Christ is also the “Son of the Father,” “Prince of Peace” and “Bread of Life,” but those were not the words that Saint John the Baptist used to identify Him “who takes away the sins of the world.” Also, traditionally until the NO, those words were never used at the Agnus Dei part of the Mass. (They are used in the other parts, like in the Readings, Communion antiphons, hymns, etc.)

      So, in the new and improved ICEL translation of the Mass, troping with “Prince of Peace,” “Bread of Life,” etc. was forbidden. However, “Lamb of God” may be sung many times over, as long as the very last verse ends with “grant us peace.”

    • The affluent tend to want distraction instead of union with God. They manage to wrench things around to where the goings on substitutes for “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God”, and presume (in the grave sense of the word) that the “bread alone” will effect their union with God.

  24. Maryanne Leonard says:

    I understand fully and feel the same way.

  25. Anonymous says:

    dont even bother going to the new masses; they are a dishonor to our God and our Faith. Go to the Mass of all Times, the Traditional Mass, and if there is none, stay home and follow mass in a Traditional missel. Get in touch with Traditional mass goers. Why do you insist in continuing to support such a mess of a mass. It is a dishonor to our Lord and our Faith, the Catholic Faith. There I said it. If you continue to go to the new masses you are part of the problem; you are not helping by supporting such a mess of a mass. Dont go there. It is not honoring to our Lord, and to our Lady. Amen.

    • Anon,
      Attending Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation is an obligation and unless you are really really sick and unable to get out of bed unassisted, or travelling great distances and had to cross the international dateline, or some other really serious matters that prevent you from going, you have to go or commit a mortal sin.
      Both the NO and the EF are valid Masses, just different forms. So you have a choice. But reading your EF missal at home (or even watching an EWTN Mass on TV) when you are not seriously sick does not meet the obligation. You have to be physically present where the Mass is being celebrated.

  26. Anonymous says:

    signed : Ginette to last comment

  27. I wish that my church was a little more orthodox. I dream that one day we will once again hear the latin mass in my parish. From the bible studies to the mass, it looks like and sounds like a protestant church. I was told that if I did not like it, I could look for another church. Well I am still looking.

  28. I have a hard time when ever people hold hands during the Lords Prayer. Why our priests and bishops don’t address this, is beyond me. I want so badly to find a truly orthodox church.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      I understand what you mean debra.

      I am not against the NO mass, for I have attended very reverent NO masses in the past that are faithful to the magisterium, so I don’t think it’s right to force people into thinking that the Latin Mass is the only best thing…even though I attend a Latin Rite Mass at times, but I do enjoy looking for other parishes that have reverent Masses. I did enjoy the Ukrainian Parish that we use to attend, their mass was so beautiful and very reverent too!

    • Debra,
      People hold hands at the Our Father because there is no rubric to say they shouldn’t. Sadly, some people do things they feel like doing as long as they’re not forbidden, even though they’re tacky.

      What used to be the “orans” position reserved for the priest has been adopted by the people and, horrors, morphed into a horizontal hand-holding lovefest where the vertical aspect of the prayer is sometimes forgotten.

      I read somewhere that when the priest has his hands in the orans position, that means he is praying on behalf of all the people. Thus, in the EF, when the priest does it at the Preface or the Pater Noster, only he prays it aloud, on behalf of all of us.

      In the NO, the congregation joins the priest at the Our Father, so everybody takes the priestly orans position. I feel that. since that is the case, the priest should just stop using the orans, and merely drop his hands as he does at the Glory to God.

      I also feel that the charismatic movement has a lot to answer for as regards liturgical abuses in the NO.

    • Holding hands is the demonstration that these souls have no understanding of the recent pope, Blessed John Paul II. In a nutshell, God has given each soul a name, known to Him and eventually learned by the soul … holding hands decries this destiny, and could even thwart it.

  29. The Catechist in Question says:

    Well, I praise God, that my Christmas Mass only included Applause, Hand Holding during the Our Father, the required Psalm excluded each week so that everyone can respond with the “same” refrain each week, “glad-handing” before Mass by the priests inside the Church, homilies that have little or no connection to the readings, an entire “order” living on Parish premises that can not attend to the distribution of communion so that a legion of extraordinary minister’s of Communion can be called into action, OUR RESPONSES PROJECTED ABOVE THE TABERNACLE (doesn’t help) and scrambling around the altar before Mass with no indication — other than a few rapid half bird-pecks toward the tabernacle — that they believe that Christ is actually present in the tabernacle! Maybe my Parish became Protestant when I wasn’t looking?

  30. Many of us are fed up with the liturgical romper room nonsence that occurs each time we attend Mass. If we pray what we believe, than the majority believes in nothing since that is what is projected from Mass. I thought that the silliness would cease after the ‘new translations’ came about, but not so. The effiminate Mass is driving males from the Church, as well as the young, so soon the congregation will look like the cast from THE GOLDEN GIRLS. What a shame that these abuses continue! No wonder the laity are flocking to the old Mass, where this garbage is NEVER allowed or tolerated. Ave Maria Purrissima!

  31. I’m trying to wrap my brain around why our new pastor, ordained for only 3 years, has felt the need to eliminate the “Gloria” during the Sunday and Holy Day Masses. I did approach him because I’m very curious for the reasoning – he said something about the choir not having a Gloria they could sing. Having a masters in theology I really wanted to appear non-intimidating or aggressive and just asked “couldn’t we pray it without music? It’s such a beautiful prayer an one of my favorites.” He assured me he could “add” it back in – that was two weeks before advent. Knowing that the Gloria is not sung during advent I was hoping he was just waiting til after advent to add it back in. New Years day was my first day back in my own parish – No Gloria. Can anyone enlighten me as to why a priest would omit this INCREDIBLE prayer?

    • Laurie,
      The choir not having a Gloria to sing is a cop-out. Every church music publisher now has the new translation of the Gloria (and the rest of the Ordinary) and even the Responsorial Psalm either in chant or song. There are even free downloads of sheet music in the web.

      There should be no reason for omitting the Gloria during Christmastide, Eastertide, on Sundays in Ordinary Time and in most solemnities, such as feasts of the Blessed Mother and those of the apostles.

      Perhaps you should write your Bishop about this issue. I’m not sure if the “Gloria” is considered part of the Ordinary of the Mass, (since it’s not sung during Advent and Lent) but if it is part of the Ordinary, skipping it should be considered a liturgical abuse forbidden by the document Redemptionis Sacramentum. At any rate, if I were you, I’ll write the diocese about it.

    • Maybe he’d consider getting rid of more troublesome parts of liturgy and simply open up a fast “food” drive through window.

      • Ha! Skai, The rebelious priests could form their own religious franchise for ‘cafeteria’ Catholics who just want a quick pick me up and a side of righteous potatoes

  32. OneoftheSheep says:

    Isn’t this all so distracting? Depending upon which Catholic Church one enters, one must completely contort their workship. I live very close to a parish run by the Salvatorian Order. Sometimes, if I can not get to another mass due to time or weather constraints I attend this church with its plastic Jesus hanging in the sanctuary, its wooden boxed tabernacle, and its crowd of garulative parish members. I tell myself, I want to receive Jesus. All else fades in comparison.

  33. Life Lady says:

    I was visiting Apple Valley a couple of weeks before Christmas. I had to endure most of these abuses, but nevertheless, the Mass, overall, was an attempt at thoughtful worship on that Sunday. My daughter and her husband have to drive out of their way to get there, so there was much appreciation for my normal St. Anne in Barrio Logan. That Mass never fails to lift me to the heavens.

  34. Elizabeth says:

    Thank you for your article – will save it for future reference. I am not Protestant but was once, and am sick of seeing the Protestant influence on the Catholic Mass. I calm my nerves by going to Hanceville – The Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament!!

  35. I went to my daughter’s church for the children’s Mass on Christmas Eve. Before Mass, people were talking loudly until I couldn’t think, but for me the most astonishing thing was to see little children taking turns at reading the Gospel, and then, as if this were not enough, the priest looking at the children and calling them “the Gospel of the Lord.” I almost expected to see ten-year-old pray the prayer of Consecration. I am definitely not a member of the liturgy police, but this was about ten steps too far.

    • Trish,
      The document “Redemptionis Sacramentum” forbids anybody but the ordained clergy from proclaiming the Gospel and delivering the Homily. No lay people, children, nuns, even seminarians can do so – only Deacons, Priests, Bishops, and the Pope may proclaim preach. In fact, even Deacons have been limited in proclaming the Gospel and delivering the homily where the Bishop says so (such as in the diocese of Marquette, WI.)
      Please talk to your pastor about this and if necessary, write your Bishop about it – but with utmost respect for your priest.

    • Liturgy police vs Mass Militia!!!

  36. we have a duty to report these kinds of behavior on the part of the priests, deacons, etc. to the local bishop or directly to Rome. These churches should not be allowed to celebrate mass, unless in the proper form, and follow the guidelines of the church.

    I am fortunate to have a wonderful parish in Norwalk, CT where everything is so properly and reverently done including our beautiful latin mass with all its splendor. God’s blessings

  37. Same sentiment here. Thank you for posting these experiences at Mass. They are great reminders for some of us not to cave in and drown in the sea of liturgical abuses.

    God Bless

  38. I only wish your experience was rare, but forgive us Lord, it is not. I have been blessed with an orthodox pastor for the last few years (one of, if not the only one, in our entire diocese. I cannot imagine having to endure nce again the abuses I did in the past. I will no longer tolerate it, and I will walk out. Especially with my children, whose protection of soul is my duty. I will never allow them to think that “it’s all about me” masses are okay and deserving of our participation. Never,

  39. anthonypadua says:

    Start hearing the Traditional Latin Mass. Trust me, I’m coming up on ten years of that Mass exclusively and this laundry list of abuses you mentioned are nowhere to be found in that magnificent Liturgy.

    So give yourself a nice 2013 present…

    • Anthony,
      Sometimes, the Extraordinary Form is so very extraordinary, you won’t find it anywhere near your ordinary towns and cities. So without any choice, people have to go to a NO Mass.
      Pope Benedict XVI did not release the Traditional Latin Mass from 40-or-so years of captivity until 2007 with his motu proprio. Even before that, we have no Institute of Christ the King or Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter or Indult priests to offer them in our area. I did not see a TLM in my neck of the woods until 2010. Some people are not so lucky.

  40. Anonymous says:

    I experienced hearing the song “Mary, Did You Know?” while trying to pray after receiving Holy Communion.

    • Also known as “clueless Mary”. One wishes everyone who sings that song would read Mystical City of God by Ven. Mary of Agreda and become aware just how very clued-in the Mother of God was and is.

  41. I had the great pleasure and blessing to attend Christmas day Mass at the Oblates of St Joseph in Santa Cruz. Many thanks to Fr John Warburton for a reverent and liturgically sound Mass — as always.

  42. If it is truly upsetting, then you, as an observant Catholic, had an obligation to find the priest after Mass and convey your concerns, and get his response. Then you have an obligation to inform the local bishop.

    Unless we speak out, absolutely nothing changes for the better—only the worse, and right now we are experiencing the “WORSE.’

  43. marcia darnell says:

    We took a trip across country several decades ago .We headed to Illinois where our daughter was spending several weeks with a Catholic friend.
    after attending liturgies with female altar servers in VA ( before it was officially allowed) we attended a Mass with her host family in Illinois.
    We were treated to Anointing of the Sick, General Confession with no mention of mortal sin pre or post this alleged sacrament, and Communion. All DURING the Liturgy!
    We stopped at our Lady of Lebanon shrine in Ohio on the way home and related to the Monsignor there what we had experienced. His head literally dropped on his desk and he rolled it around moaning,looked up and apologized to us for what we had endured on behalf of the Church. I see now things have NOT changed much and find Catholic or universal to be increasingly a misnomer.

  44. You were so attentive to the liturgical legalisms of the services, I wonder, did you take any unofficial personal time with Jesus? After all, He calls us friends! Friends are not always required to be quite so formal.

    • Carol,
      Of course you can have personal prayers at Mass. But more importantly, the Mass is liturgy – it is the official, formal, public prayer of the Church, the Bride of Christ. Therefore, the Church has set up rubrics for this most worthy celebration of the Sacrifice of the Lord in Calvary. It is neither us nor the priest alone who owns it or prays it. It’s the whole Church. All the angels and saints are also there, even when we don’t see them. It’s not ours alone, and that’s why we have to respect how it should be prayed and celebrated.

      • An excellent answer Mousey. Evidently Carol does not understand that it is pretty hard to have time with the Lord when a lot of noise and distractions are going on that are not approved in the General Instructions of the Roman Missal (the GIRM). She seems to think that they were written and officially approved for no reason.

        • Carol, I am sorry my answer was so curt, but the GIRM (official rule book for the post Vatican II Mass) gives enough leeway to avoid legalism, but too many Catholic churches have gone to the extreme the other way. Much of what has been done at some Masses could have been and should have been done after the Mass or in a church hall. Some of it has been out and out forbidden and should not be done at all. That is the point of what most of us are saying. In some churches the people do not even know how to act. I went to a church where the people were standing, kneeling and sitting after they came back from Communion. That is because different bishops have taught them different things, and the Vatican quite often says something else, and some go on in disobedience. If that is any kind of order or unity, I will “eat my hat”. It is not this way in most other countries. There is some semblance of unity in the Catholic churches in most of them — at least within the same rite, and there used to be a lot more order before the newer Mass which many older people miss. There is strong unity for worship
          for the most part in the Eastern Catholic rite too, unless a Latin rite Catholic goes there and insists on “my way or the highway about which one person already complained. We need to respect each others rites and our own rubrics for our own rite for the sake of unity and order in worship. We can hug, kiss, pat each other on the back, talk, chat and even dance outside the Mass in the hall or on the church grounds. Gheesh! whatever happened to decorum that people no longer even understand what it is.

          • I am not saying in my last post that a husband or wife or relatives cannot give each other a hug or peck on the check at the “kiss of peace”, but hugging, holding hands, etc. with just about every one within one’s space and even sometimes’s across the isle is just carrying things to extreme at one of the holiest moments of the Mass.

  45. Fr. Bob B says:

    Pope Benedict’s comments on applause during the liturgy were right on target—”the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and has been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.” Besides applause, there are many other practices more suitable for a karaoke bar than worship. But pity the poor pastor who has the guts to implement the decision that Sunday Mass is something more than a concert for “performers” whose practice sessions delay the start of Mass, who sing ENDLESSLY and expect applause. He’s going to be hounded by the music director (in some places, the “Minister of Music”) and the congregation until he “gets with it”. [What's next---a tip jar atop the ever-present piano?] I know whereof I speak: I help out on weekends at a parish where this happens. What is needed are more pastors who aren’t afraid of their own shadows but rather teach—charitably but firmly—what the Church allows, and doesn’t, in the celebration of what our Eastern brethren call the Divine Liturgy. I’m by nature an optimist, but I’m not holding my breath.

  46. Singing Mum says:

    Two letters- EF
    then four- FSSP
    I’m so grateful for them!!

  47. I agree with you. At our church on Christmas Eve, Santa came down the aisle to much applause just prior to the end of mass (before the priest said” the mass has ended – go in peace”.) He was probably there to fill Jesus’s Christmas stocking that was hanging from a place of honor on the front of the altar. It felt very inappropriate to me.
    This church also has the priest welcoming weekly visitors (it’s an historic church building) with applause and a gift right after his homily – that also doesn’t feel appropriate.

  48. I experienced dancing up the aisle at the start of Mass to the tune Silent Night! Also dancing on the altar on several occasions, one time actually to the “Our Father.” It was the family Mass on Christmas Eve and most of the families in attendance were busy filming or photographing their children – just to add to the distraction. This is the last time I attend that Mass although I will say, it was an improvement from last year’s offering when the children were dancing with swirling ribbons – this year they were just holding candles. The final “discomfort” was two children literally hollering a final prayer down the microphone. It was like they were trying to outdo one another. It was ear piercing. I looked to my left and right and people had puzzled expressions on their faces, wondering what it was about and when it would end – and I mean, they were shouting! Finally, we had yes, you guessed it, the applause. How far is this from the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? God have mercy on us.

  49. Anonymous says:

    I admire your love for tradition, and I agree with the essence of your argument, however we just have to be careful that we don’t make it all about tradition and/ or ourselves. I look at it from the perspective of Christ, is He more offended by some actions that stray from tradition or is He more concerned with what is going on in the hearts and intentions of his followers. Stay pure, stay loving, and stay UNITED. God bless.

    • Anon,
      Christ also lashed at and threw out those who desecrated His house of prayer.

      At any rate, the Mass is Christ’s Sacrifice of the Cross, offered to the Father for the forgiveness of our sins. He decreed that His Church should do it in His memory, therefore it became the official, the formal, and public prayer of the Church, His Bride. He also gave the Church power to bind and unbind – to make rules that She deems necessary to preserve the continuity and solemnity of this most Holy act of worship. If the Church has set up rules and norms on how to celebrate it, we must obey.

      Would Christ be offended by some actions that stray from tradition? I think He would be, because such liturgical actions could cause instability, disunity, and even sacrilege to His mystical Body.

      Our Blessed Mother, when she appeared at Fatima, taught the shepherd children this short prayer:
      “Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I adore You profoundly, and I offer You the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges and indifference with which He Himself is offended…”

      “WHICH HE HIMSELF IS OFFENDED,” etc. Yes, I’m sure Our Lord is offended by the outrages, sacrileges and indifferences that He sees in our celebration of the Mass.

  50. I agree with Anthonypadua and and Singing Mum. There is an answer: The Extraordinary Form. I attended four beautiful Missas Cantatas with Schola in the Archdiocese of San Francisco and a reverent 4th Sunday of Advent EF in the Diocese of Stockton.

    Isn’t it time for some to stop complaining and to drive Sundays and Holy Days to the nearest TLM, and then work to organize the TLM in your parishes and dioceses? There is no way I could abide some of the abuses noted above.

    And did the complainant who reminds us of the not so pleasant past we have all endured complain to the priest about the applause and his family having been singled out? Has he written a letter to the bishop of the diocese?

  51. Here’s a new one: our parish hosted a Kwanzaa mass. I don’t mean to sound offensive or mean. If I had known they were going to do that I would not have attended. It started out with a “liturgical dance” down the isle and ended with a “liturgical dance” back up the isle, with drums and all. At the end of mass there was a libation ceremony. Talk about pagan! The Gospel Choir did the music. I was so glad when it ended. Our priest always changes the wording in the prayers and the Consecration. On the third weekend of the month, when they have the Gospel Choir, I go to mass at the parish where I work; the priest there at least follows the correct form.

    • Anonymous says:

      Candy, this is important and needs to be reported to the diocese.

      • Thank you for letting me know; I’ll have to follow up on this. Could I do it anonymously or do I have to send a signed letter?

        • First, try to discuss the issue with your pastor – courteously and armed with the necessary church documents, such as the GIRM and the RS. If that does not work, write to your Bishop. Sign your letter and include your address, phone number and email, just to prove you’re legit. But do request anonymity from the diocese should they decide to take your issues up with your pastor. You have to live in your parish. You don’t want to be on your pastor’s *hit list.

        • Anonymous says:

          Mousey’s advise is good. However with a priest who changes the words of the Consecration, I would write a letter to the bishop with the exact words that the priest is using. Yes and you do need to sign it. Pray a lot first.

  52. Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

    The Novus Ordo Mass is so rife with abuses; it simply needs to go away.

    • Anonymous says:

      The Holy Mass is the sacrifice on Calvary renewed.

      • Not renewed. Cannot be re-newed per se. That is the misunderstanding that protestants have when they accuse us of re-crucifying Him at every Mass.

        Re-presented, re-called, memorialized, yes.

        Memorialized in the unique way of the Jews, who uniquely memorialize the Passover every year as if it is happening to them, alive now, in the same exact way as it did for their fathers, alive under pharaoh. The Jews have a concept of memorializing an event as if it is happening outside of time, and yet in real time with the ones who are memorializing said event.

        But that does not make it new nor renew it. :-)

        • Anonymous says:

          Yes, it makes present the Sacrifice of Christ. It is the same Sacrifice, not an additional one. Renewed is a Fulton Sheen era expression. Re-presented is also used. I have never heard re-called or memorialized, but times and semantics change.

          • “A day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day” (St John). Thus, the Holy Mass continues; the Crucifixion continues, the Resurrection continues. Heaven is timeless, and so is eternity; so let the two be combined in each soul.

      • Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

        Ignoring my point. ‘ Abuses’

  53. Seminarian William Tūlua says:

    It is sad to see the outcome of what Vatican II turned out to be from what it should have been. The abuses in the church are slowly changing as this generation of revolutionaries are starting to leave us. I grew up in this era and literally hated every moment of it. The Church has suffered greatly in these past fifty years and hope with the Holy Father who is trying to make right these abuses and to return to a Roman Catholic faith. I will be ordained by the grace of God in a few years and hope more changes will happen within our church and my seminary. I do thank the gentleman for writing this article. We still have real Roman Catholics out there!

  54. Unfortunately, the most awful abuses happen on Great Feast days of the Church (Christmas, Easter) and at Baptisms, Weddings & Funerals; I have witnessed many people receive Holy Communion who were not even Catholic and many “Catholics” who do not go to Confession and/or disobey certain moral teachings of the Church.

    Effective preaching and catechesis is missing and an infiltration of “anti-” traditional Church dogmas has been seeping into the Church.

    Is our Pope being isolated and ignored?

    God Bless

  55. The problematic English translation of the Novus Ordo Mass was finally corrected on paper a year ago, finally. But the accreted distractions and worse persist. Part of the history is that implementation of the post-Vatican II Mass ended up in the hands of a cardinal (Bugnini) who in violation of the Constitution on the Liturgy encouraged unauthorized experimentation, and who reportedly was a Mason, and who in 1967 was summarily removed by Pope Paul VI. I also seem to recall that the pope instructed that ambiguous wording in the Mass did not invalidate the liturgy so long as the traditional interpretation was intended and not rejected by the celebrant.

    Part of the New Evangelization and the Year of Faith is to reclaim what has been lost over two generations. The real evangelization–Pope John XXIII’s stated intent in 1962 for convening the Second Vatican Council–has been largely muddled or derailed for fifty years. Too much of the Church membership at all levels went native, adopting the “dominant mentality” of the times (Pope Benedict XVI’s comment). But things are getting better–much, much better compared to the 70s and 80s. What a great time this has been, and will be, to link our sufferings to the sufferings of Christ.

  56. I tried to have the Nicene creed said at Mass (Grim 68), only to have Bishop McGrath reply to me in an official letter stating that he does not necessarily follow Grim 68 either

    • Rob-O,

      The Bishop, of course, is the shepherd of the flock. But if you truly feel strongly for the Nicene Creed, you can try writing the Congregation of Divine Worship at the Vatican. I’m not sure replacing the Nicene Creed with the Apostles Creed is a liturgical abuse – of course it’s permitted in Masses where there are children.

      Some people also prefer the Apostles Creed to the Nicene because they feel it’s more complete, i.e., the Nicene does not contain the part where Jesus descended into Hell before rising from the dead on the third day. That said, church documents say that the Nicene Creed is the normative for the Credo of the Mass.

      • Correction, Mousey: the bishop is meant by God to be the shepherd of the flock; being so is not always the case. Your salvation depends on you, not on your bishop.

  57. The abuses on the articles above is going on in many parishes. Now that many of you agree that the Traditional Latin Mass provide us with the reverential treatment of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, I believed that we should individually and collectively have a petition drive and write to our own diocese and bring to the attention of the bishops concerned to either request the Motu Propio of the Holy Father be implemented and that the abuses in the Novus Ordo be stopped. I myself with a friend of mine will write our bishop and gather some signature to stop the abuses. We did have a petition for the Traditional Latin Mass but this was ignored. However, at least we tried. With regards to the abuses, maybe it might be ignored but at least I know that the bishop is informed and if chooses to ignore our request to correct this abuses, then the ball is on his side. He has to answer for it before God with his conscience. Maybe what we are trying is a drop in the bucket in the ocean of abuses but at least there is a start. It is a good feeling that there are many who have written their comments on this article are aware of the problem. Awareness is a step towards a resolution of this problem. May God the Holy Spirit guide us towards the right path and may Mother Mary intercede for us that we may continue to pray for priest that they may become holy and return to the traditional teachings of the Church.

    You can find the addresses and names of the bishops at the website of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. On the search box just type addresses of bishops and click search or you may email me at flor3507@yahoo.com and I will send to you the list or just the address of a specific bishop. Let us get this going.

    • The whole point of the Motu Proprio, Summorum Pontificum, is that priests do not need permission from the bishops for the TLM. A TLM can be said in any parish and in any diocese, with the permission of the parish pastor. The diocene bishop does not need to give permission, be consulted, or even know about it. To have one TLM on Sundays in a given parish is the decision of the local parish pastor.

      The one thing that Summorum Pontificum authorizes bishops to do, is the option to set up personal parishes dedicated soley to the TLM, rubrics, and sacraments according to the ’62 Missal. That what each bishop in the U.S. should be petitioned for. That he selects a parish in his diocese to be used as a parish dedicated to the exclusive use of the TLM and ’62 sacraments as a personal parish for the diocese as outlined in Summorum Pontificum.

      • Maybe the priests do not need the permission of their bishops to say the TLM, but what they do need is not to be transferred to some remote region in Antarctica where only the nearsighted with fuzzy vision would believe his congregation was all nuns in traditional habits.

  58. MaryAlice says:

    So happy to have returned to Traditional practice…I was surprised to realize that there are many problems among us…but because it is all been given over in prayer…I leave with a peace I haven’t experienced for a long time. Or maybe ever!!

    The Latin was taken away before I could read…so I’ve never experienced my faith like I have now…and am so much happier…which is someting I have to learn to be…happy. Have to laugh about that…happily this too shall pass and I will know…

  59. Vickie L. Jackson says:

    Also, raising hands at “And with your spirit” in imitation of the priest; but worst I’ve seen yet, in LA Archdiocese, cooking and selling food outdoors DURING MASS! Parishioners at 1 parish go outside, buy food, return to Mass and eat it. At another they leave to a McDonald’s next door, during Consecration, return and eat immediately before receiving Holy Communion. Appaling and always ignored by the priests.

  60. Father Karl says:

    Regarding what Laurie asked, if it is Sunday, or a feast day, then the Gloria is to be said or sung, unless it is Advent or Lent. Even though the choir or the organist does not know a melody to the Gloria ,the priest is obligated to say the gloria. The Ordo, which every sacristy is supposed to have, tells the priest that. Unfortunately, many priests can’t read the rules in the Ordo or in the Missal. If priests are making a mockery of the Mass, inform the bishop, and also the Vatican. Scandals like this must not occur. This is a sacrifical banquet we are attending, NOT a happy meal! The Mass is not a toy to be played with, but a sacred ritual to be properly prayed.

    • How do you answer the teenybopper girl who exclaims at her first TLM upon reading the missalette, “But these are all a bunch of prayers!”, makes an ugly face, and stomps off with her retinue … uh, I mean, friends?

  61. Return to 1950: The Latin Mass, performed with a staff of 4 or 5 priests at your local parish, and the Parochial school run by an order of nuns, and the Parishioners providing plenty of operating funds. All is well, God’s in his heaven, and all’s right with the world.

    Now, in 2013: A Mass in English. There is a staff? of 1 (one) priest, a receptionist, and perhaps a nun, struggling to carry out all the duties of the Parish and the School, with ordinary lay people as teachers and assistants, and very thin funding. The priest is exhausted, trying to cover all of the Masses, marriages, funerals, sick calls, and the administrative needs of the parish. And worse is to come – because of the shortage of priests, the latest tactic in many Dioceses nationwide, is to pool all of the Diocesan priests. Churches will now be closed except for a few hours a week, Masses will be cut, and it looks as if many daily Masses will become eucharistic ceremonies, officiated by ministers or deacons.

    So, there are many of us ordinary lay people who have decided to help, and there is so much to do – for example, most Masses require a half hour preparation beforehand, opening doors, lighting, preparing vessels, etc. So what has happened is that there is a staff of the largely untrained, doing what they can, usually doing well, but sometimes blundering about on the altar. We try hard, but as it often happens with ordinary citizens, things are not as neat or professional as they should be.

    Meantime, while these ordinary folk are volunteering their work, their time and sweat, there are other folk at Mass, who open their notebooks, and note down all of the lapses from proper Mass procedure. Oh, what good Catholics they are, and they let you know it…YOU, snap that book closed, put your pencil away, and get up on that altar, and help out. We need your blundering about during Mass, and after, helping out. There aren’t enough priests now. You are needed TO DO, and not to criticize. Also, perhaps you could gently steer those deficient Masses back to the correct liturgical procedures.

    Also think about the Church, and Christians, at the time of Jesus. You, the critic, would not like Peter. His clothes were scuzzy and ragged, and he smelled like fish, and probably, he took a bath once a year. And how about that John the Baptist – wearing a single mangy animal skin, and with grasshopper legs hanging out his mouth. No doubt the critic would be noting this all down in his neat little notebook – not proper procedure, at all, not up to standards….

    • Dear Joe, I hope my posts in no way offend your sincere efforts in support of Holy Church. You seem truly commendable for your courage and service.

      I will for your benefit expand on my horror story posted later on from the ‘kiss of peace’ discussion. The post appears at 1.52 pm

      I shared a true story of a man who had an itch problem and it was obvious during Mass. Well, sometimes that poor man would sit in the front row at Holy Mass. The man was over 6 foot tall and built like a Texan, not easy to miss.

      Our senior priest is in the habit of shaking hands with Altar Servers and parishioners in the front row at the ‘kiss of peace’ during Holy Mass.

      If you use your imagination you will realize the potential for what our senior Parish Priest had on his consecrated hands when he distributed the Holy Eucharist to nearly half the congregation.

      I do think it would be a blessing if the hand shaking was stopped.

    • Joe,
      There’s one priest in your parish. The rest are lay people. There is a clear line setting apart the priest from the people – it’s called ordination. So people can’t just get up to the sanctuary and help out without the priest telling them what to do. Ask your priest to train you, and I don’t mean just opening doors or turning on the heater/air conditioners – those are not part of the liturgy and not subject to abuse.
      Also, read up on how you (especially the men) can help. You have what it takes to do the Readings, chant the Responsorial Psalm, form a choir that would sing the proper Proper (There are English chant Propers now available for free downloads) and not the happy-clappy songs that 70′s liturgists preferred. Read the SC, the GIRM, the RS, the MS – in other words, get educated on the Mass and know why it should be celebrated correctly and reverently. Arm yourselves with these information and much prayers, so when the liturgy terrorists strike, you can defend the Mass.
      You don’t just dare people saying – You who complains, come up here and help. How do you know they can help? But if you know what to do, you can teach people how to help. One more thing, Church documents say that it is the RIGHT of parishioners to participate in a properly-celebrated Holy Mass.

    • Why bother with such a place?

    • Hey joe, Ever think that you may be the reason others don’t help?

      • Sure, yes, some fault is mine….but let’s be realistic here. At one time, the Diocese wanted to close our parish. It still is struggling to survive. The Diocese has closed several other parishes, and there are more closures to come, and also, there are very few newly ordained priests. Most of the priests in our Diocese are white haired, and close to retirement. One expects that in a decade or so, having an ordained priest in residence in any parish may be a rarity. But don’t let this bother you. Keep on with your thinking that there will always be a priest there, and Parish life will continue as if it were still 1950….and all will be as in the past, but only if we return to the Tridentine Mass! And right now! Alas, it isn’t 1950, I’m terribly sorry, Julia, Mousie, and gravey.

        • joe, You are making a huge assumption. You talk as if the closing of parishes is a bad thing… maybe it is the necessary thing. OF or EF, whatever… we get what we deserve. If there are not enough priests, fine, shut down the parish.

        • I have wondered why the Evangelical churches are growing by leaps and bounds, and our churches have to close because of low attendance and low offerings. What are we, you and me, doing to drive people away from the one true churh founded by Christ himself. A huge part of their growth, by the way, are Catholics who have left us for them. Why?

          • Bob One, Do you not see how tradition, devotion and obedience to the Magisterium are ignored and even ridiculed? Do you not see the irreverence toward the sacraments and especially the Eucharist? Do you not see that most “Catholics” don’t go to Mass or confession? Do you not see that the Catechism has been lost? Do you not see that most Catholic do not believe in the Real Presence, including priests? Do you not see that even Bishops have become lukewarm towards the Faith? Do you not see that most Catholic schools are no longer Catholic? Do you not see the scandal which you manifest by the very fact that you ask the question?

          • Simple, BO: The non-Sacramental churches have more of “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” than the Sacramental churches. The problem to solve is how to get both, especially in light of the fact that Jesus says “man lives” on both the “bread” and “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God”. It should be clear and totally obvious that most bishops today not only do not give forth with every word from the mouth of God but stifle the words that come from God. Some bishops likely even prohibit what God is saying. Others mock what God is saying. I’m wondering if it would be ok with God for someone to go and receive the Sacraments at one church and then go to another to receive what God is saying. The problem, in other words, is how to get the full nine yards, BO.

    • Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

      The Novus Ordo Church is Dying… Lalalalalah!

  62. Come on, this will keep going on until we kick the “Novus Ordo” to the curb once and for all, stop being so suprised at liturgical abuse. The Novus Ordo itself is an “liturgical abuse”. Bring back the “Traditional Latin Mass” and sacaraments!!! Enough of the hand holding, kiss of peace, giant puppets, clapping, altar girls, lay lectors, women running around the sanctuary, drums, guitars, tamborines, dancing nuns, dancing girls in leotards, communion in the hand, ugly churches, polyester vestments, felt bannners, the “peoples table, standiing instead of kneeling before the lord, you see how the Novus Ordo abuse list goes on and on and on!!!

    • Janek,
      The “hand-holding, kiss of peace, giant puppets, clapping, altar girls, lay lectors, women running around the sanctuary, drums, guitars, tamborines, dancing nuns, dancing girls in leotards, communion in the hand, ugly churches, polyester vestments, felt bannners, the “peoples table, standiing instead of kneeling before the lord” are not stipulated in the original Latin Novus Ordo Pope Paul IV Mass. Those are inventions of self-appointed ignorant liturgists whose creativity ran amuck and went unchecked by pastors and especially the Bishops.
      Celebrated in its original Latin text, ad orientem, with the priest singing his parts, designated male-only lectors and altar servers, no EMHC’s (except during rare emergencies) chanted Propers instead of pop songs, kneeling for communion on the tongue, the Novus Ordo CAN BE glorious. I’ve seen one celebrated thusly at St. Patrick’s Church in SF, a long, long time ago. Since then, I have not seen one. I think the Latin NO just died.

      • That is not “creativity”; creativity is the creation of life, not death. The culture of death too often reigns in these pseudo Catholic parishes. St Paul coined the term “cretans” at meeting the citizens of Crete, who he said are stubbornly dull of spirit. Hopefully that island population has transformed over the millenia. But obviously the dull of spirit are found all over the place and in all time periods.

  63. Thank you for this informative article, and the comments show a lot of feelings which I share although I live in UK.

    The balloons and streamers decorating the Hands of Jesus Crucified, tipped the balance of sanity. Serious catechesis is needed in that parish.

    The gossiping before and after Holy Mass has got to me here in UK. I have addressed the problem like a lone ranger but without preaching.

    This is what I do and you can join me in a UNIVERSAL Renewal of Silence in the House of God.

    I have taken a vow of silence in the House of God, between me and God. If I fail to keep the vow, I kneel down on my two knees before God there and then and kiss the ground by way of atonement and appology to the Most High. When anyone asks, I tell them ‘outside’ the church of my vow. You would be surprised how quick the message spreads.

    I felt compelled to do this because it occured to me “how are the children going to reverence the House of God if the adults show such indifference”

  64. steve burke says:

    One faithful parishinner can hold a parish for the Lord no matter if every other person in the parish has totally lost it including the Priest. You could be that parishinner or family dont leave your parish hold that line. Adoration is the key but if it cant or dosent happen for Gods sake and fellow parishinners hold that line put up with it the Lord will reward you he did us.

  65. Stop attending these ‘Protestant worship services” and seek out The Traditional Latin Mass, or an Anglican use parish, an Eastern Rite Catholic parish and if none of these are near you attend an Greek, Russian, Serbian Orthodox Divine Liturgy, we are allowed to attend our “separated” Orthodox brothers churches when in extreme need, they are valid. It will take decades for our Church to recover from Vatican II and all of its abuses.

    • Dear Janek, I think Saint Francis of Assisi had the right approach when things got lax in his day.

      He did not jump ship. He took to fixing what he could until the Lord found a truly heroic mission for him.

      Have you watched Brother Sun, Sister Moon. That is a film about Saint Francis I love so much. Now how I hope and pray true Catholics with a deep passion for the Mystical body of Christ on earth will find the courage to put every thing they have aside. It is called ‘bundling up your Isaac and placing him on the Altar to God.” Offer your life to God and stand back, as far as I can see He is desperate for labourers. It won’t be long until He takes you up on your courageous offer.

      We can’t wound the Heart of God any more by tearing apart His Mystical Body on Earth, Holy Mother Church. Stay with Holy Father and remember how Blessed Mother waited for her Son to grow up and clean house with the money changers in Temple. Our problems may be different. God Rules.

      Love and Peace.

      God bless you my friend.

    • Some Protestants are moving towards Christ, and some away; not sure if same can be said of novus ordo Catholics.

  66. Print flyers in your parish and hand them out or place them on car windshields in the parking lot telling the people our Holy Father has given us the tools to ask the priest for the TLM in your parish. There is no permission needed from your local bishop only a stable group of people wanting the TLM. And tell your priest to stop the nonsense when you see abuses or let him know you will report him to the local ordinary about the shenanigans that go on.

  67. I would like to share my little horror story with you. It happened more than once at the ‘kiss of Peace’ during Holy Mass. In UK we usually just shake hands and say ‘peace be with you’

    I do this to avoid offending anyone; but agree it does not seem necessary, were they kissing or shaking hands on Calvary!

    What happened to me. There is a hospital for people who suffer mental illness near our church and if patients are ok and catholic, they attend Holy Mass. Usually this is ok; but there was one man God help him who seemed to suffer from an itch in the region of his back axle if you know what I mean. He would plainly scratch it during Mass, not on the outside of his pants, he got to the itch directly.

    Anyway the first time I got caught I had never seen him before and sat behind him. When the ‘kiss of peace’ came around, I was horrified when he turned around and offered me his left hand (the one he used for scratching). I felt I had to shake it; but it still gives me the creeps thinking about it.

    I got caught again a couple of times when he came in the church after I was seated and myself and those next to me were stuck. What do you do in the name of charity.

    Anyway, is that not one good reason for stopping the ‘kiss of peace’

    You may not want to publish this, or you may need to write the true experience in a more articulate way. I will totally understand.

    • How awful. I thought I had it bad that the woman in front of me for Mass Tuesday kept wiping her sniffling nose and then offered me her hand. But it is always something; a child picking his nose, someone sneezing all over their hand, wiping their eyes, people coughing and hacking…it’s a huge distraction. Try as I might, I can’t help thinking the first time I see or hear this that I’m going to have to shake that person’s hand. I think about it all through the rest of Mass. I’m sure it is a reflection on my lack of focus on what is most important, but I can’t seem to help myself. I don’t want to get sick. It’s worse when most parishes other than my own (Deo Gratias!) make it clear they aren’t keen on receiving on the tongue. So I’m expected to shake hands with nose pickers and then use my contaminated fingers to place Our Lord into my mouth. I’m sorry, aside from the ruckus it creates, thinking about it is a huge distraction. I really wish they would do away with it.

      • You do not have to shake anyone’s hand. Although they may walk all over you literally or hug you … you need to stand your ground, and not give in to pressure. Or you could learn how to quickly grab only their finger tips and crunch them … yes, until you see the pain in their eyes, and look straight into those eyes while increasing pressure, until you see their sign of remorse for being so offensive and foul.

        • Pamela, just fold your hands in front of you and bow your head to them. That is what most people now do in our area. It is more Asian or East Indian but a lot quieter and healtier.

    • You English have indeed a gift for description!!! Perhaps your saving grace : ))

  68. It is easy to repy to these situations with “you may have to change your parish” or “report it to your bishop” however, if you live in a diocese that is very liberal (I live in one of the top 5 most liberal dioceses in the country – yeah me) and you live in a very rural area it is difficult to remedy the situation. Everywhere within a 25 mile radius is either flakery than my own parish or the wonderful pastor of the neighboring parish has been transferred. Pray, Pray Pray – ( and oh the Traditional Mass option? – Not even close to being a possibility where I’m at or, at this point, I would choose go there).

    • Laurie, don’t lose heart. If your diocese won’t listen to you, write the CDW in the Vatican, with documentations. What liturgical abuses are habitually committed, what rubrics they violate, when, and how often, etc. Just make sure your letters are respectful and hopeful, and of course, pray. God bless you.

  69. Father Karl says:

    Regarding what Mousey and Seraph wrote, the liturgical office of the diocese told us we priests MUST ALWAYS give the sign of peace. Another official instructed us that at Mass, we do not pray to God, the Mass is for talkiing to one another.Privately, the bishop seems to support obeying the rubrics, but many times he himself does not follow them. With most of the other diocesean priests against me, it is very difficult. But I became a priest to serve Almighty God and His Son’s Church, and I do not obey the liturgical fruitcakes, and the liberal red hots who try to run the parish and presume to tell me how to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is the priest’s job, and NOT liturgical groups that decide what is going on in church, especially when Mass is being offered.

    • Father Karl, God bless you.
      I also suggest you get on the Vatican website and study how you can reach CDW, just in case. At least you’ll have them on your side. But do cultivate your good relationship with your Bishop. I’m praying for you.

    • The Sign of Peace can be done at the start of Mass, ie the first act of the liturgy. Carrying on is to be done apart from Mass according to St Paul; the sign of peace is essentially “carrying on” with social partying out.

  70. Anonymous says:

    Report ALL abuses to the appropriate Diocese Bishop with copies to the US Papal Nuncio, and the Vatican.

    Stop abuses by not allowing them to fester. We each have a responsibility.

    There is no requirement to ‘kiss’ anyone. It is wrong to let anyone kiss you.
    If fact, I don’t shake hands, but simply very softly say “peace” to those standing on each side of me only.
    Hold a book with both hands if you do not want to shake hands, or clamp your hands together. Some people sneeze in their hands, and spread colds, other germs, even the flu.
    The Protestant gestures of hand holding and raising hands in the air during the Lord’s Prayer – are not Catholic either.
    (Only the Priest is to raise his arms.)

    Read GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal), which you can find on the Vatican web site (or USCCB site).

  71. The Holy Father “reforms the Reform (V2)” and nothing changes!!! Leave Novus Ordo, go to TLM, Eastern Rite Catholic Churches or the new Anglican use Catholic parishes!!!

  72. Just had to jump in here. I actually visit 20 – 30 different parishes each year and attend all their weekend masses (I speak at the end of the masses with a brief announcement for an non-profit…). I cover the Arch-diocese of San Francisco, Diocese of Reno and the Diocese of Salt Lake City. In general, I have observed almost no abuses as described above. Rather, I find parishes striving to faithfully implement the liturgical renewal given to the Church by Vatican II. I see an increased use of Latin during the N.O. masses and yes in some parishes the E.F. is offered. Besides that, some of the most reverent and beautifully celebrated masses I have ever attended were in the Oakland diocese. My advice: cut the criticism and try to build something good and holy. Get involved with humility, charity, patience and obedience (love in action) and God will take care of everything. All is Grace!

    • Tom,
      Oakland had Bishop Salvatore Cordileone as bishop before he crossed the Bay Bridge to become Archbishop of San Francisco. He is a straight-arrow, sharp-shooting prelate who loves a beautifully-celebrated liturgy, especially the Extraordinary Form. No wonder the most beautifully-celebrated Masses you’ve ever attended were in Oakland. But just wait, with him at the helm of the SF Archdiocese, I’ll say – Watch out Holy Redeemer Parish! You now have a no-nonsense archbishop who will not tolerate gay guys dressed as outrageous nuns wanting to desecrate Holy Mass and sacrilege Holy Communion. I can’t wait for the changes in SF.

    • Yeah, Tom, it’s all make believe except what you see.

    • Hey, Tom! Bull!

  73. Betsy Caffrey says:

    I have decided to change parishes because I become too angry or self-righteous when I attend my current parish. On Christmas Day, instead of an Advent or Christmas hymn, they sang something by Mariah Carey. On the Solemnity of Mary, the person who leads us in song was waving her right hand in the air while her left hand rubbed her stomach with hips gyrating. And before the final blessing, the priest’s announcements included thanking these hacks for their music ministry and of course, the church applauded them. I get angry . I don’t want to be angry at church. I must include these people in my prayers, but I’m changing churches. Lastly, they don’t use missals or song books. Everything is projected on screens. How do they expect children to learn? I sometimes attend funeral masses so that someone (me) will be there to respond to the priest because without the computer, so one knows the prayers. It’s all so very sad.

    • Betsy, I’m so sorry. I hope and pray you will find a church with a properly-celebrated Mass, reverent, and using the proper chant Propers in English instead of pop music.

    • Once a month on Saturday night our parish has a gospel choir, music that is almost impossible to sing to. What I decided to do on those particular weekends was attend mass at the parish where I am employed and lector for that Saturday night. It sure has saved on my nerves and mental state.

  74. Went to 11 AM Mass at the Cathedral in Albany, NY. Nothing to complain about; in fact, the music is fantastic. Some of the “Old Church” is coming back – sung in Latin with great voices. Gives me just a little idea of what drew Augustine in.

    What got me was the state of dress of so many of the congregation, blue jeans and hoodies on this high feast day – across the age groups. What took the cake was a little older teen who was wearing an orange hoodie and blue and white plaid shorts. He came in just before Mass began and sat next to his ????? You got it! His parents. Can you blame him?

    People, what has happened to us?

  75. John Ghering says:

    I sympathize regarding the hand holding. I feel that that is such a distraction. I am also uncomfortable when I see all the “orans” posturing. I can appreciate these people feel they are somehow contributing something special or necessary, but I am unaware that either posture is directed by the GIRM or that either actually “add” anything to the Holy Mass. signed a Convert from Lutheranism

    • Anonymous says:

      I read somewhere that the orans position is only to be used by the priest. I could never find any source that recommended it or condemned it except that one instance. Can’t remember where I read it, though.

  76. Karen Giannettino says:

    Remember that, if your priest or bishop is not following the rubrics, you can complain to high heaven to the Papal Nuncio for the United States. I was told this by a priest here in San Diego. You don’t need to bother with any diocesan chain of command or other Magisterial channels either! It’s worth a try. IMHO, this is all part of the dumbing-down of the laity by the Socialist priests, of which there are a multitude, since the inception of Vatican II. We who know how a Mass should celebrated should be pointing out errant parishes and dioceses so Holy Mother Church can clean them up and get the laity back on track. Otherwise, we’re lost.

  77. Karen Giannettino says:

    The papal nuncio is Carlo Maria Vigano, and he is headquartered in Washington, DC.

  78. I’ve read most of these comments and I have to agree that liturgical abuse continues and will do so probably for the next 20 years or so until those that are even currently being ordained as bishops are retired. The seminaries of the 60′s and 70′s produced these shepherds and nothing will change until they are retired. I agree that the Traditional Latin Mass is the answer, a going back to the Mass of the Saints that we all know and respect. The short answer to the problem is that Money Talks. If you leave your Novus Ordo Mass that contains abuses, you take your money with you to a Mass that respects Our Lord and is not a three ring circus. Even if it means traveling a couple of hours or even staying in a hotel in order to attend a proper Mass, it is worth it in the long run, and this will be the only way that the Proper TLM makes a comeback. I know because as a new Catholic I was trying to “help” and even played my guitar at Sat. night Masses because I was asked to by the priest. It was only when I attended a bizarre mass while travelling that I realized that I was a part of the slippery slope of abuses and that I must quit and make a stand to not perpetuate what was truly wrong.. Since then my wife and I attend only the FSSP TLM Mass.

  79. Anonymous says:

    Agree with all said here – except that I find the holding hands beautiful. (I know, I know, I know.) But, when I came back to the church it struck me that this is what heaven must be like: all God’s children worshipping Him as one and praying the prayer that Jesus taught us to the Father. I love to look around and see my brothers and sisters in Christ all one in this way, the only time it is visibly manifested. We are a church that appreciates the senses and how they are signs of deeper realities. This speaks of all those deeper realities – and unless I have a cold, etc., I always participate in this legitimately allowed practice. I am sharing this thought in the hopes that my fellow Catholics will be kind in their responses.

    • Anonymous says:

      I made a little error in how I phrased: ‘they are signs of deeper realities.’ But you know what I meant: that so many things in the Catholic church such as the music, art, sacraments speak to us on some level through the senses (sight, hearing, touch, taste, etc.).

    • Not really.

    • Catherine says:

      This is an E-Letter written by Karl Keating back in 4-11-2006


      The current issue of the “Adoremus Bulletin” says this in response to a query from a priest in the Bronx:

      “No gesture for the people during the Lord’s Prayer is mentioned in the official documents. The late liturgist Fr. Robert Hovda promoted holding hands during this prayer, a practice he said originated in Alcoholics Anonymous. Some ‘charismatic’ groups took up the practice.”

      My long-time sense had been that hand-holding at the Our Father was an intrusion from charismaticism, but I had not been aware of the possible connection with AA. If this is the real origin of the practice, it makes it doubly odd: first, because hand-holding intrudes a false air of chumminess into the Mass (and undercuts the immediately-following sign of peace), and second, because modifications to liturgical rites ought to arise organically and not be borrowed from secular self-help groups.

      Periodically, on “Catholic Answers Live” I am asked about hand-holding during Mass and explain that it is contrary to the rubrics. Usually I get follow-up e-mails from people who say, “But it’s my favorite part of the Mass” or “We hold hands as a family, and it makes us feel closer.”

      About the latter I think, “It’s good to feel close as a family, but you can hold hands at home or at the mall. The Mass has a formal structure that should be respected. That means you forgo certain things that you might do on the outside.”

      About the former comment I think, “If this is the high point of the Mass for you, you need to take Remedial Mass 101. The Mass is not a social event. It is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary, and it is the loftiest form of prayer. It should be attended with appropriate solemnity.”

      • Catherine says:

        Pope Benedict XVI once wrote, “A Church which only makes use of “utility” music has fallen for what is, in fact, useless. She too becomes ineffectual. For her mission is a far higher one. As the Old Testament speaks of the Temple, the Church is to be the place of ‘glory’, and as such, too, the place where mankind’s cry of distress is brought to the ear of God. The Church must not settle down with what is merely comfortable and serviceable at the parish level; she must arouse the voice of the cosmos and, by glorifying the Creator, elicit the glory of the cosmos itself, making it also glorious, beautiful, habitable and beloved. Next to the saints, the art which the Church has produced is the only real ‘apologia’ for her history. It is this glory which witnesses to the Lord, not theology’s clever explanations for the terrible things which lamentably, fill the pages of her history. The Church is to transform, improve, ‘humanize’ the world – but how can she do that if at the same time she turns her back on beauty, which is so closely allied to love? For together, beauty and love form the true consolation in the world, bringing it as near as possible to the world of the resurrection. The Church must maintain high standards; she must be a place where beauty can be at home; she must lead the struggle for that ‘spiritualization’ without which the world becomes the ‘first circle of hell’. Thus to ask what is ‘suitable’ must always be the same as asking what is ‘worthy’; it must constantly challenge us to see what is ‘worthy’ of the Church’s worship” (Feast of Faith, 124-125).

        • Very blessed it is, Catherine, that you take such time and care in finding these priceless things to salt this website with!!!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai I agree…I just hope all will take the time to read. They are pearls indeed.

  80. The priest who celebrated that Mass probably has ceased to believe, and his consecration probably was not valid. You very likely did not receive the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ; you received a piece of bread! These are hard words, but a priest must believe and intend to consecrate the sacred species, otherwise transubstantiation does not take place. If he has so little respect for his office, why would he have any love or repect for the one in whose person he is celebrating Mass.

  81. Hummingbird Kate says:

    A very sad article. I have moved almost 30 times (military) in recent years and have personally witnessed many of the abuses outlined in this article and many, many more besides those listed. The evil one’s influence on humanity in general and Catholics throughout the flock is clear. Many do not have the luxury of shopping around for a parish presided over by obedient clergy. My strategy? I strive to be above reproach in my own actions not only during Mass but throughout the day, and I PRAY. Silent obedience and prayer CAN change the course of our situation.

  82. I am a revert to Catholicism, and my husband is a convert. I went through RCIA with him, and it was an absolute scandal. If not for EWTN and Marcus Grodi’s “The Journey Home”, I’m not sure he would have gone through with it. The leader of the RCIA was an angry feminist who stated to the group that she is “so angry with the Church”. She referred to the Holy Spirit as “She” during an RCIA session. I personally removed trash such as The National Catholic Reporter from the entrance of the church and noticed that her name was on some of it.

    I grew up in a very faithful diocese, but I live in one where people dart out the doors after Communion and chat through the whole Mass. It is sad, because it distracts from the worship of the faithful who are present.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Karen I am so sorry that your hubby had a terrible RCIA experience, I have heard that from many people, that is very disturbing to me because all the sweat and hard work at evangelizing many of the faithful have and continue to do to bring back fallen away Catholics or even converts as well just so they can be confused with the awful RCIA program that the church offers. God have mercy!

    • Seek out healing from the lousey RCIA nonsense … You can find solidly faithful priests who will provide you even with individual catechesis. It’s up to you to find them.

  83. No clapping for me, only the reverent Traditional Mass. God bless to all.


  85. cecilia Tsu says:

    We have a LAYMAN, among other abuses, he is also allowed to perform the complete benediction in our Mill Valley parish.

    He even has an another layman serves him,
    –just like a priest– including incenses the monstrance,
    and doing the blessing with the monstrance.

  86. My dilemma is that at my preferred parish, the children are out of control, and the parents seem to think the chaos is normal. Toddlers let out screeches like a demon has just poked them with a pitchfork and parents just bounce the kid in their arms, but don’t go out; kids three to five years old are allowed to run up and down the aisles and in and around the pews, their parent keeping an eye on them but doing nothing to stop it; kids over six leave the pews headed for who knows where (I expect they tell their parents they need a bathroom break), parading around the church even during the consecration. The din in church during Mass is like a Chuckie Cheese. At an alternate parish, the evening Mass is attended by mostly adults and is mostly well ordered, but now a new priest has joined the staff, and he feels the need to say, “Good evening everybody.” after he enters but before the opening prayer, changes some words of prayers, sings like he’s Robert Goulet doing dinner theater (he has a great voice and he apparently loves to hear it), and then, after the final blessing, says, “Have a great weekend everybody.” at which point you can hear voices in the congregation saying, “Thank you, Father.” Of course I see all kinds of holding hands or individuals with raised hands during the Our Father but the “hug one, hug all” of the Sign of Peace has really diminished since the introduction of the new Roman Missal in 2011. I tried another nearby parish, and on the Sunday I attended, in the pew in front of me a 9 or 10 year old boy was eating a bowl of cereal WITH MILK AND A SPOON! The next week I tried yet another parish, and during the first 5 or 10 minutes of the Mass a family of about eight people drifted in a few members at a time and sat in the pew in front of me. They had a little girl, maybe 18 months old, and at the Gospel, the mother sat down in the pew, threw a blanket over her shoulder, and proceeded to breast feed her baby. It was too much for me, and I left the pew and stood in back the rest of the Mass. I try. I really do try not be distracted by these things, but I so love to go to Mass to pray to and worship God, I find myself so distracted that if I spend even a consecutive five minutes focused on God, I’m lucky. I hate to be uncharitable in telling all this, but I am at my wits end at the appalling things I witness, on and off the altar. God, please help us!

    • Anonymous says:

      Sit in the front row!

    • Sounds like the Spanish mass at one church I attended. Kids were out of control. On Wednesday evenings we had a group of Spanish charismatics praying in the church. They were so busy with their “charismatic aerobics” (as Father called it), they let their kids run wild. The kids got into the elevator and pushed several buttons at the same time and the elevator became stuck. The fire department was called to get them out. The next day Father told them they could not come back to the church. This was the second Catholic Church they were booted from. Same problems too.

      • Mark from PA says:

        I love our weekly Spanish Mass and receive spiritual nourishment from it. Every once in a while a small child will wander but this doesn’t bother me. One little boy is at an active stage right now. I remember when he was in his mother’s womb, when he was an infant, a toddler and now is about 2 years old. It warms my heart to see the beauty of these children growing up. Maybe in 10 years he will be an altar boy.

      • Some groups, both high and low society, prefer to have their kids run amok, unmanaged, uncontrolled, obliverating all that is being attempted by the rest of the group. I’ve seen the parents even laughing with utterly immature and stupid glee in their faces. The “suffer” from the “It’s all about me” syndrome.

    • Many people are hard wired against mental activity. St Paul called them “Cretans” after the citizens of that island he ran into when he was shipwrecked there … He described them as being invinceably dull minded on the spiritual level.

    • What about the first Mass of the day?

  87. Until I discovered the TLM I almost left the faith. I was horrified at what was going on during Mass. When I attended Mass, the only emotions I had were anger,and being upset. When one has these emotions one cannot pray. Those who attend the TLM love their faith, live their faith, and have devotion to the Holy Father. During Mass, we can pray, which is what we are expected to do in church.In other words, we are trying to be faithful Catholics. I thank God that Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have made the Mass of all times available to us.

    • Yes, I agree with your experience, Lianne, as that was what it was like for me also. Today when I happen by a modern Mass throng heading for their cars, much of the time they’re all up tight and miserable looking. For me what did it finally was the one voice in the choir that was so far off as to sound pretty much like some kid scraping his finger nails across one of those old black slate chalkboards.

  88. Add this to your list:

    Flushing two finger sign for peace when offering peace. According to some articles in the internet, it is the sign used by devil worshipers together with the peace symbol which is suppose to be a broken upside down cross. It is so common practice in the church I attend and it is so sickening.

  89. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye are like whited sepulchres, which appear beautiful outwardly, but within are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.

  90. sigh.

    the whole subject of liturgy of so darned divisie nowadays.

    i wonder if it was much easier before the second vatican council?

    i’ve heard people complain to me about every possible opinion & preference: why DON’T we hold hands? who DO people talk after MASS is over? why DOESN’T the priest come down the aisle during the sign of peace? etc.

    it seems like no matter WHAT you do, you will have complaints, unless of course you get a homogenous group (like the TLM folks) who gather for the liturgy they specifically find best.

    for most of us, even a really good experience of MASS can be damaged by one element we find aggravating, and then we wonder whom to address – the pastor? he, of course, is probably besieged by other people who LOVE that item, such as ‘introducing yourselves to each other” before MASS begins which i hate.

    to keep my spiritualityy intact, i try to focus on the good that’s going on (for examploe, a powerful proclaimation of the WORD OF GOD by an excellent lector) and then close my eyes for nutty stuff (such as the sanctuary being overrun by people who don’t seem to know what they are donig). it’s amazing how much peace of mind can be achieved by just shutting my eyes to disorganized traffic and praying to GOD during that time…

    • max, you’re always pointing out how “divisive” the Church has become. As opposed to what? Is it your desire that we all merge into one large amoeba? Why don’t you go and read what Blessed John Paul II says about the members of the Mystical Body of Christ? Or you can google up a detailed diagram of an amoeba and then claim your particular area of existence in it. Your choice.

  91. In response to FHJK, and some others, if abuses did NOT exist, then there would be NO liturgical police. To cook certain foods, one MUST follow the receipe totally! To mix certain compounds and elements, the rules of chemistry MUST be followed, or else there is disaster. The same thing is true in medicine, in flying a jet, or navigating a ship. Therefore, in order for the Mass to be valid and licit, liturgical norms MUST be followed .Otherwise there is chaos, which is so common now. Ave Maria Purrissima!

  92. The hand holding stopped for the most part in our area because many just refused to do it unless the person next to them was a relative. For the most part we bow, wave gently or shake hands but not during the flu season.. Our custom now is more of the Eastern one with a slight bow with folded hands to the person and a “peace be unto you”. It is not disruptive to the Mass, it gets the point across and is friendly and welcoming..I know it is not the typical American way of greeting but neither was holding hands across the isle and throughout the church. That was more like a Twelve Step Meeting and not a Mass.The other options are the TLM and the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Catholic Rite or the Anglican Use Catholic Rite.. They are Vatican approved at many churches in California.and are very reverent. The TLM and The Anglican Use both face East, toward Christ, the SUN of God, the Light of the World, (the crucifix) over the altar..

  93. When I was younger the Priest celebrating the Mass and the other Priests acting as Deacon and Sub-Deacon were the only ones who actually gave the “sign of peace”. Sometimes the Sub-Deacon was a seminarian home for the holidays or on vacation. Today, thankfully, the sign of peace is offered to everyone. I point this out only to indicate that things change over time. In the old days and old ways that so many seem to hanker for, often with good reasons, were not all that good from many vantage points. The Mass was said by a Priest who faced away from the people, read a foreign (dead) language and was considered above everyon one else in all things. For some of us who lived through the changes of VII, it suddenly became possible to participate in the Mass rather than attend or just sit and listened. Since then, the Church has become more robust in some ways and less so in others. But, what is expected now is more than listening to Mass, attending Mass, etc. We the Church are expected to be Church. It involves doing more than just going to Mass on the weekend. Being Church requires us to be part of the parish; attend social events, participate in Bible study and other formation activities, to serve those in need inside and outside the parish, be friends with our co-parishioners, etc. To just go to Mass on weekends is missing the point of the parish community. Worship, the Mass, is the summit of our prayer life for sure, but it is a piece of what it means to be Catholic. I will stick my neck out a bit and say that those of us who are so judgemental about the horrors of the liturgy at their parish or at a visited parish need to rethink why they are there. I attend a vibrant Christ-like parish that is growing because it serves the needs of the people, provides programs for the youth, helps the poor, serves in sick, etc. But why they really come in droves is the music (no chant), the sermons (very much taking the readings and making them practical and useful for our lives, a Priest who is loved by the parishioners, a friendly group of people who sincerely wish you the peace of Christ and want to form a bonded community by holding hands while saying the Lord’s Prayer. In addition, the Mass is word for word out of the new Missal, yet it is said with joy. Yet, even in this highly possitive environment, there are one or two who are beyond themselves when the Priest only lifts his arms six inches instead of the supposedly required nine inches, and then they complain. Well, I can tell you they are mostly ignored. If a Priest or Bishop paid much attention to the one or two percent of the complainers they wouldn’t have time for the other 98% of the congregation. The great window-opening in Chruch was fifty plus years ago. It’s time to move on folks. Please, pray the Mass, be with the people, love the love, offer the peace of Christ as if you meant it. sing the hymns and encourage a coming together of God’s people. Enough with the complaining all ready!

    • How, Bob One, did a “dead language” as you call it inspire the Church to grow to about two billion souls presently on earth today? The Latin language conveys the life of God to those who have ears to hear.

    • Bob One, Why don’t you stop fooling yourself and admit you are a protestant. Good God man, you are not even close to being a Roman Catholic!

    • Catherine says:

      Wanted Ad: Latest feel good buzz *word* for hire!

      Job detail: Helping faithful Catholics to run like the dickens in the opposite direction when they hear others use this specific “word” to describe their “community.”

      Warning!!! “Word” Description: = VIBRANT ; (

      Authentic Mission Goal & Statement: To inspire the Local bishop and the parish priest to stop ignoring and pay closer attention to the one or two percent of the complainers who are more attached to the word “FAITHFUL” instead of entertaining the other 98% of the congregation who are more socially attached to the word “VIBRANT.”

      • I cannot stand that word, “vibrant”; think I’ll paint it on a rock in the desert and use it for target practice.

      • Anonymous says:

        A complainer would not be faithful.

        • Catherine says:

          For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: I will catch the wise in their own craftiness. 1 Cor. 3:19

          Hiding beneath a bushel an “anonymous” voice spoke out with all of the wisdom of this word and said, ” A complainer would not be faithful”

          The Try telling that to St. Cyprian, St. Jerome, the persistent widow and the squeaky wheel just to name a few.

          Saint Cyprian (d. 258). Cyprian is important in the development of Christian thought and practice in the third century, especially in northern Africa.

          Highly educated, a famous orator, he became a Christian as an adult. He distributed his goods to the poor, and amazed his fellow citizens by making a vow of chastity before his baptism. Within two years he had been ordained a priest and was chosen, against his will, as Bishop of Carthage (near modern Tunis).

          Cyprian *complained* that the peace the Church had enjoyed had weakened the spirit of many Christians and had opened the door to converts who did not have the true spirit of faith. When the Emperor Decian’s persecution began, many Christians easily abandoned the Church. It was their reinstatement that caused the great controversies of the third century, and helped the Church progress in its understanding of the Sacrament of Penance.

          Matthew 5:13-16 Douay Rheims Catholic Bible

          13. You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt lose its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is good for nothing any more but to be cast out, and to be trodden on by men. 14 You are the light of the world. A city seated on a mountain cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house. 16 So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


          • Catherine says:

            Francis de Sales, who humanly speaking was one of the most appealing of saints, touched on this point in lines that Donald Attwater quoted in his preface to the 1954 edition of Butlers Lives: There is no harm done to the saints if their faults are shown as well as their virtues. But great harm is done to everybody by those hagiographers who slur over the faults, be it for the purpose of honoring the saints…or through fear of diminishing our reverence for their holiness…. These writers commit a wrong against the saints and against the whole of posterity.

          • Anonymous says:

            You should attribute the St. Francis de Sales quote to the person who wrote it. John W. Donahue S. J. in America Magazine May 13, 1995

          • Anonymous says:

            You should also attribute the St. Cyprian material to the American Catholic website. Would that you had continued to the end of the article with the quote from St. Cyprian “You cannot have God for your Father if you do not have the Church for your Mother…God is one and Christ is one and his Church is one; one is the faith and one is the people cemented together in harmony into the strong unity of a body…If we are the heirs of Christ, let us abide in the peace of Christ; if we are the sons of God, let us be lovers of peace.”

          • Catherine says:

            Yes, I did only write the wonderful quote from Donald Atwater’s preface from the 1954 edition of Butlers Lives and I should have included the writer’s name and cited the magazine source and that is the truth. I do always try to do that as you can see in my other post about Pope Benedict and Karl Keating.

            Anonymous, Were you also trying to selectively silence the man above who wrote the article by inferring that he is somehow not faithful because he complained? You were sure selectively silent when I did attribute the full and proper credit due to the Holy Father for writing beautiful statements about improving the reverential atmosphere of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

            If you are the same person who wrote “a complainer would not be faithful” you would also be sending out the wrong and unfair message to those who did come forward to speak up about terrible abuse. They were not just “complaining” for the sake of complaining, they were also telling the truth. It is wrong for you to selectively paint a broad brush label over those who do speak up. You are inferring that they are somehow NOT faithful for wanting our clergy to show fidelity by first teaching and then enforcing “all”of the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church and for wanting to keep the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass reverent. (cont,)

          • Catherine says:

            Anonymous, You took the time to selectively correct (= silence) me but you did not use any of your time to write comments that would attribute you’re show of support for Pope Benedict’s Wisdom in my Jan.4, 1:24 am post. Abeca and Skai saw the beauty in the Holy Father’s words. If your true motives really stemmed from only having a pure desire to give others proper credit then you would have also given credit to my posts that quoted the Holy Father’s wise words. If YOU are the same anonymous that wrote, “Complainers would not be faithful” then I would attribute your latest two posts to me as being no different than a previous poster who consistently claimed to want peace and love while remaining selectively silent in supporting courageous people such as Charles LiMandri or by marginalizing or embellishing negative comments about our faithful priests.

            If you are someone else who just prefers to remain anonymous, then I could trust that your motives are not selective but good and say God bless you for reminding me to keep on my toes and not forget to include and cite “all sources”. That would be honesty and not just showing a historical posting pattern of inconsistencies and selective corrections. I would also like to remind you that there is no such thing as remaining anonymous with God. God knows our motives. God knows the lack of purity or the purity of all of our intentions.


          • Catherine says:

            Taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church


            2520 Baptism confers on its recipient the grace of purification from all sins. But the baptized must continue to struggle against concupiscence of the flesh and disordered desires. With God’s grace he will prevail.

            - by the virtue and gift of chastity, for chastity lets us love with upright and undivided heart;

            - by *purity of intention* which consists in seeking the true end of man: with simplicity of vision, the baptized person seeks to find and to fulfill God’s will in everything;313

            - by purity of vision, external and internal; by discipline of feelings and imagination; by refusing all complicity in impure thoughts that incline us to turn aside from the path of God’s commandments: “Appearance arouses yearning in fools”;314

            - by prayer

          • Anonymous says:

            Nobody responds to every post. And I don’t know why you think you are selectively corrected (on this website!) nor why being corrected would equal being silence. I don’t understand the Charles LiMandri thing or the rest of that sentence. I don’t understand the catechism quote either. Are you accusing me of hitting on you?

    • Bob One, when they “opened the great window”, that was when souls began flying out and away.

      • In all fairness, though, B.O., what had held you in the Church was external rules you adhered to. But when the chains were loosed, then you escaped and began looking for what those chains were holding you to. Hopefully you find it some day. “It” is named Jesus.

  94. Mark from PA says:

    Thanks for a beautiful post, Bob One. Something to think about.

  95. In response to Bob One, what you have described is what happens in a Protestant Church and we know that there are lots of those around. Most of what happens is focused on “feel good” activities, and they do have their followers. The Roman Catholic Church is the only one that was founded by Christ Himself and what is supposed to occur is the Sacrifice of the Mass. This is not about what I do, or what my fellow parishioners do. We are there to be with the Priest, and support him through our prayers and through following the Liturgy of the Mass through our Missals, and he is the only one , as Christ persona, that will bring us the true Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, of Christ , Our Lord, for us to consume as the Holy Eucharist, No Protestant Church can ever offer this to us, and so we are privileged to be able to attend this most sacred event when we attend Mass. I know as I was Protestant and became a Catholic convert 10 years ago into the Novus Ordo. What struck me was how similar it was to the Protestant services that I used to attend. Only when I started to attend the TLM did I really realize what a true Mass was. I now participate fully by following along in prayer in my Missal; more so than I ever did before, and with far less distractions from a constant parade of people “helping out” the priest that were there in the Novus Ordo..

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Keith I too am a convert to Catholicism. I’m glad that in TLM you’ve found a more full expression of your spirituality! But I hope you were not saying in your post, that the more “protestant” feel of Masses conducted under the NO, or even masses with the elements of the masses that Bob One attends, are less than a complete Sacrifice of the Mass, or were you?

      I myself prefer the sort of liturgy that Bob One describes, for my self. That’s not for everybody. I find this sort of liturgy encourages me to see my hands as His hands in the world, to do justice, comfort the afflicted, and proclaim peace. TLM may inspire you to do that, just as NO does to me.

      • That is not the problem, YFC. The problem is the tyrannical suppression of the EF of Liturgy. People who prefer to worship with more than their feelings and hands are disgusted with the extremely pedestrian limitations of the OF of liturgy. It is not good works alone that Jesus inspires us to but complete union with God. The OF of liturgy hardly facilitates this fullness.

      • YFC- you use the phrase” less than a complete Sacrifice of the Mass” . As Rome has approved the OF I must in obedience accept that it is allowed, but, if you have ever attended the EF you will see that the OF is a very abridged form of the EF and you also have a whole bunch of other players involved. I attended a OF church for 10 years and every Sunday they said a prayer for vocations. In its 60 year history, not one vocation came from there. Whereas, at the EF rite church that I now attend, in its 8 years existence as a personal parish under the FSSP, there have been 6 vocations that have come out of it. Every Sunday there are 11 alter boys from age 6 up that are learning the EF rite. I will also use the word Vibrant, because it is. Over 250-300 or so at the Mass( its a small church) and just filled with families with lots of kids, some with 10, but all are as well behaved as you might expect. Their parents travel up to an hour to attend with them. The two priests teach all classes and do all of the functions that you would expect them to do. As for the social service functions of being a Christian, I do those on my own time outside of the Sacrifice of the Mass.

    • Keith, you comment expresses your understanding and living your Catholic Faith. You can understand why so many have expresses the abuses that goes on in various parishes. The Novus Ordo as originally implemented also provide due respect for our Lord as what is going on in the parish where the bishops adheres to the teaching of the Magisterium and obedient to the Holy Father. The abuses exist because of the liberal bishops and priests who allows or introduces the abuses instead of correcting it. The liberal bishops and priests prevents parishes to have the TLM in their Diocese and makes it so hard for traditional priest to work in a liberal Diocese. You would think that they will just be happy to have additional priest in the Diocese by incardinating priests who can say the TLM. They would rather close a church and say because of lack of priest than incardinate a conservative priest. They would rather have no Holy Mass during the week and provide a priest only on Sundays to the flock that they are suppose to Shepherd. There are priest who are conservative but they would not want this priest to help out. You who have experience the TLM and also experience the protestant services before your conversion to the Catholic Faith knows the difference. You and your family are blessed for having the privilege of having the TLM in your area. Let us pray that the Holy Spirit continue to work on each one of us that the teaching of Christ will reach many hearts.

      • Being able to say the TLM has to be the least important reason for naming a person to be a pastor of a parish. A parish is a community of the faithful. It is where we should be able to go to refresh our relationshiip with God, with other members of the community and a place from which we take the faith to others. It is not “just” a place where we go to Mass. My experience is that those who “don’t like” the Mass at their parish, and travel all over the metropolitan area to find a “correct” Mass also didn’t participate in the life of the parish they left. They left during the closing hymn, they didn’t stay for hospitality, they didn’t attends faith formation sessions during the week, they didn’t serve on various committees, they didn’t take advantage of other opportunities to be faithful and helpful members of the community. Going to Mass is the least that is expected of a parishioner.

        • Bob One’s hate for the TLM is showing once again. No Bob One people leave their parishes and search for the correct Mass aka TLM because they have had it with the liturgical madness, the clapping, the rainbow flags and all the other poisons the modernists let into the Church.

          • I don’t hate the TLM. I was an altar boy at thousands during my younger days. I still know all the prayers by heart. I just don’t choose to attend a TLM because I find it less appealing than the Mass in English. But I also believe that both forms of the Mass are equal. One is not better than the other. The Pope says the NO Mass. That’s good enough for me.

          • One more deceptive blog by Bob One. Yes, the half truth is that the Pope says the novus ordo Mass. What BO fails to say or see is that the Pope’s prayer life is rich compared to lay people who do not have all day to go around saying the prayers, or involving themselves in the type of mental and spiritual meditative prayer that the OF by its very structure prohibits. The EF Mass gives the common man, woman and child the experience of spirituality that is otherwise not available to them. Extremely selfish of a bishop to limit or suppress the EF Mass … these tasteless grains of salt keep God from communing completely with the laity. These selfish bishops should contemplate the fate of their skulls, since it is said by saints and doctors of the Church that the road to Hell is paved with them. The only reason for the existence of a bishop is to provide the Sacraments and “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God”. Those who refuse to do this need to pack up and get out.

        • Bob One: It is not just the TLM why a person sometimes need to look for a another parish. It is the blatant disrespect for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. If they would follow the Novus Ordo according to the GIRM as Oscar had mentioned in his comment, then the Novus Ordo is as approved is participating in the life of the Church. It is the abuses that causes people to look for the TLM parish or a parish in Oakland where Archbishop Cordileone was in charge of the Diocese, they do observed the correct NO. Everything that we do whether it is for the church, for the community apart from Christ will not produce good fruit. Oscar’s comment is what we should all do. We should also be responsible members of the Church. We actually are encourage to correct each other.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Bob One I can’t speak for others but I would have to disagree with you. My husband and I were always participating. I even taught woman’s bible studies. It seemed that the more we covered what the church taught (like in the CCC, biblical, early church fathers/doctors) there was resistance from some of the attendee’s and chaos that was very truly disturbing for a young mum, still nursing at that time my youngest, looking back, I wonder how I even stayed Catholic with all the indifference I had to endure. God’s graces and love of faith have protected us, that is for sure. All while trying to stay faithful to church teachings…praise God for my husband for being a convert, he helped me deal with all those things. Even in my youth years, I was rewarded a certificate for being one of the “youth ministers” who helped plan out youth group activities and invite more youth to my youth group.

          I feel sorry for many that do not get it, they always seem to have a negative point of view of anything having to do with the TLM. Like I said before, I am more Charismatic but I do tend to grow closer to the TLM because I feel safe there when it comes to wisdom and knowledge on church truths but I also find it very refreshing when I do find a NO parish that is faithful to Christ and His church, that also are faithful and knows the faith and hold convictions that truly are representative of our moral values and reverence towards holy mass etc etc.

        • Bob One, You are are wrong on many counts. Do not be to hasty to judge. i was the Finance Chair for 6 years, Led both the tuesday night and Sat night choir, was a reader, delivered for St. Vincent de Paul, My wife did the flowers, was on parish council, We attended and participated in all fund raising activities and contributed far more than our fair share in money. It was only when we left and withdrew our money that we got a call from the priest.

          No, we left because we finally figured out that we were “enabling” the disorder and that nothing would change until we made a stand We tried through the appropriate channels first, the priest and the Bishop, but to no avail . There was a joke in our parish and it went like this ” how can you tell which women are members of the CWL? Answer- They are the ones standing during the consecration”. Our church was filled with many of the disasters quoted by many in this stream. Many were just fighting for their turf. The priest was essentially a bystander trying to deal with all of these people

        • Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

          Bob; You are wrong

          Commune- Root word for Community

          A parish is a portion of a diocese under the authority of a priest legitimately appointed to secure in virtue of his office for the faithful dwelling therein, the helps of religion.

          essentially a Parish is a place where the faithful go to Hear Mass and get instructed by as Priest. without a priest there is no parish.

          A parish is not necesarily defined by territory though this is the norm. There are instances of parishes formed solely of families, without regard to territory.

          also in places like Africa and Americas, you can have Catholic Rites/Dioceses/Parishes co-existing right next to each other, even with Roman Parishes right next to each other.
          A Good Example is St. Josephs Cathedral and Our Lady of the Rosary in Down Town San Diego, or Our Lady of Guadalupe and St. Anne in San Diego too which are less than two blocks apart.

          Parish life revolves around priests and Mass and not ‘ communes. (Why? Well becouse Priests are vessels of Grace for Christ) A priest, having in virtue of his title a mission and authority (from the Bishop) to give religious succour to the parishioners, is required all that is required.

          In Cajon City, there is 10 Catholic Churchs and only 100,000.00 resdidents. All sorts of rites and over there.

  96. The ORDINARY FORM of the Mass in the USA – must adhere to GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal); third edition.
    Any deviations from this must be reported to the Diocese Bishop;
    if that does not work it must be reported to the US Papal Nuncio in Washington DC, and the Vatican’s “Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments”.
    GIRM can be found on the Vatican web site, and the USCCB web site.
    If you have a book, it would be for GIRM for the Third Edition.
    There are no exceptions. The few permitted minor variations are listed.

    The EXTRAORDINARY FORM of the Mass (aka Traditional or Latin Mass) in the USA must adhere to to the 1962 Missal.
    Reporting of abuses must be completed as above.

    If people do not report abuses, then abuses that take place within their own parish are their own fault.
    The Laity has a responsibility to report abuses. Don’t let anyone discourage you or tell you differently.
    (See Code of Canon Law, “Obligations and Rights of all the Christian Faithful” – see Can. 212 §3.)

    Masses must be the same throughout the USA – either for the OF or EF.

    • Oscar, your comment is greatly appreciated. It is exactly what the faithful should do. Just to cite the abuse and do nothing does not change the situation. I spoke with some of the parishioners in my area and they told me that it is useless because the bishop will not do anything. However, I believe that if I do not do anything, I become part of the problem and it is like consent by silence. I am glad you gave us the source of the correct edition of the GIRM. I am writing my bishop armed with the documentation cited in the GIRM and canon law you cited. Thanks for your comment. If the bishops do not do anything, all these abuses in their Diocese is on their conscience as they should shepherd their flock.

      • Not many of the “faithful” really care. Many of other faiths see the corruption and hypocrisy of the leaders and are both disgusted with them and laugh at them. The challenge is to live the faith despite worthless bishops. The faith is the union between individual and God through the Sacraments, which are guaranteed by Jesus, even though the bishops have no such guarantee.

      • Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

        The best place to start is with the priest, and not in a confrontational manner. Being friends with the priest is also helpful, that way when you bring up the issue, they do not feel threatened.

        • Confrontation is a part of real life; why is it that so many people are afraid of it? Reading St Thomas, one sees that his entire move is dealing with confrontation. Same with St Paul, same with Jesus as seen in the Gospels, same with anyone who seeks the truth. So when priests shy away from confrontation, what does that say about their faith?

  97. I’m a convert of about 14 years and after so many years of Mass my faith was drying up. I connected with Mass and Jesus less and less. I was starting to miss it and I didn’t care. My parish is good and our priests do the best they can. But I wawnted something deeper. I slowly started to attend a parish 17 miles from my house that said the TLM. It took a long time but it slowly drew me in. The more I go and learn the more I love it. The well of Jesus is very deep here. The priest is passionate. The fellow parishioners very reverent. No talking clapping hand holding or dancing girls. I still attend my NO parish too but there really is no comparison. The TLM makes me read along and I pray the Mass along with the Priest and the congregation. No more mumbling memorized responses while thinking what I’m going to have for breakfast when this is over. Now I think of the NO as Mass lite. Still valid but there is no comparison. As I learned how much they threw out I was shocked that we didn’t have the beautiful prayers in the NO or if they were there at all they are reduced to one liners. The sights smells bells reverence hit all my buttons. If you are happy then don’t change. But if you are willing to work a little then check it out. Just my experience and opinion for what its worth. God Bless.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      I often hear those powerful witness about the TLM George.

    • George, I absolutely agree with all that you have said. There is no comparison.Once you have started attending the TLM there is no going back to the Ordinary Form.

      • Keith actually I do go back and forth. The difference for me is that you can’t go back the same. I’ve grown so much now. I really do see the emphasis between the two is so different. People get upset but the truth is the old Mass is all about God. We approach Him with humility begging for mercy and thanking Him to love us enough to allow us to partake of His Body. The new Mass is about Us and oh yeah, God is there too. The Eucharist is there and valid but the delivery is so different. When you kneel at the altar rail and receive Him there are no words. New Mass some girl in a halter top is passing Him out like peanuts at a ballgame. You can’t just sit back and have Mass downloaded to you. You do have to participate by reading and praying along. If I get lost with the Latin I will just read the English where I think we are at until I catch up. It takes effort but the rewards are oh so great. I actually look forward to Sundays now.

        • George, why do you go back and forth? If you read some of my earlier posts you will see that I was very involved in the OF liturgy etc but then suddenly realized that as long as I kept going, and doing, and supporting with my money, I was enabling it to continue. We made drastic changes including renting an small apartment year round near the FSSP personal parish, while continuing to have a house in another city. I know that all cannot do what we have done. But I decided that I have spent a similar amount for a two week pilgrimage somewhere and for the same money I can have year round access to the EF and the FSSP( which I would highly recommend to all, these priest are amazing).. It all comes down to what are our priorities and I could be buying a new car, but this is what we have chosen to do instead. In the end, money is a tool that can be used to help save your soul. I have found that that what we have done is much like having a year round pilgrimage and it is worth it for the many benefits that we get. In the end there are two things that we are asked to do, and going to the EF certainly fulfills the properly worshiping and praising God part.

          • Keith, I guess it is because I still feel some loyalty to my old parish. My kids went to school there, we were married in the Church there, they did my Dad’s funeral. I really do like one priest in particular. He understands why I go to the TLM parish, although I know he doesn’t like it. But he told me that he would NEVER say a Latin Mass. I’m also a third degree Knight of Columbus there. Right now I go to the TLM parish about 3 weeks, and my old parish once in that month. I am moving away and eventually I might break away totally. I guess time will tell. But I’m honest with everyone about it, and I think some people understand. It is getting harder and harder to go back to my old parish, because I catch myself rolling my eyes a lot. I don’t want to do that. It might be best if I bowed out totally for them and for me. I’ll think on that. By the way, the TLM Parish does mostly NO masses, but they do them as reverently as possible, and they have the one Latin Mass on Saturday morning and one on Sunday Morning. Time will tell.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Keith I do go back and forth…I look for more reverent and faithful NO Parishes. I wish that the TLM would be translated into English so the world won’t use the excuse not to attend because they can’t understand Latin, I would love them to hear it in their own language so they can fall in love….I know that I may have some upset at me for my comments but I can’t help but feel this way.

        • Keith, I go back and forth, too, since I live quite a ways from the Extraordinary Mass, and most of my family never took Latin and prefer the Mass in English. I get there when I can do so. When I pass away, I would prefer a Latin Mass, but some of my family object since they say they just would not understand it. I, too, like Abeca Christian wish the TLM would be translated into English. The English in the older Mass is so beautiful — lofty and reverent, worthy of the Lord — the Anglo Saxon’s finest. The only other Mass close to it is the Anglican Use Mass, which sometimes uses King James’s lofty English, and at other times more up-to-date English.

          • Actually, the English called “Anglo Saxon” was older than the Elizabethan English and the English of the Douay Rheims, but I think you all understand what I meant.

          • Actually, Abeca Christian, the TLM has been translated into English in the Missals. what we really want is for the priests to be allowed to SAY it in English.

  98. This did not happen at Christmas, but there is a Catholic Church in South Lake Tahoe, CA whose priest had a dog on the altar. Yup, folks, d-o-g. The thing walked up with the priest before Mass and sat at his feet when he sat. When Mass was over, he happily followed his master out of the church. Needless to say, I left as fast as I could and never returned. I recently was up there and needed to attend Mass. I went online and saw that he (the Priest and the mutt, I presume) were no longer there. Perhaps he is now a volunteer at the SPCA…

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