Santa Clara theologian celebrates gay marriage votes

Father Araujo responds

Lisa Fullam

The following comes partly from a November 14 posting on the website of the Cardinal Newman Society.

Lisa Fullam, an associate professor of moral theology at the Jesuit School of Theology at Berkeley at Santa Clara University, is taking to the pages of Commonweal to once again tout gay “marriage.”

Fullam essentially spikes the football over the gay “marriage” votes that took place last week: “The affirming states are the 7th, 8th and 9th states to do so, here for the first time by popular vote. These states won’t be the last: poll data shows that this is a generational issue. Younger voters are strongly supportive of equal marriage rights for lesbian and gay Americans. Here is one example of how Catholics are hanging on to the good news of Catholic Social Teaching, at least as they see it.”

Fullam then takes it one step further (or more) to say that Catholic teaching may be well served by endorsing gay marriage: “Magisterial teaching against same-sex CIVIL marriage hinges on the category of procreation, seemingly asserting that the institution only has social value because children might result. But our own teaching on marriage is richer than that–marriage has value that includes procreation (or not), but also reaches beyond that important but ultimately merely biological category to encompass all the richness of living in committed relationships. Perhaps this is a moment when Catholics voting for marriage equality are showing that they have indeed learned the lessons of Catholic teaching, both the social teaching of the equal dignity of all people and our own rich heritage on marriage.”

This isn’t the first time that Fullam has made outrageous statements about marriage. Earlier this year she wrote, “But times are changing. In the end, it will be love, and the dignity of every person’s striving to love as well as we can, that wins the day.”

Fullam, in another piece that appeared in Commonweal, went so far as to suggest that Catholic teaching demands that Catholics recognize same-sex marriage. “Can we call it ‘marriage’ for straights and ‘unions’ for same-sex couples in the civil realm and not fall afoul of the Catechism’s insistence that unjust discrimination against LGBT people is wrong?”

According to Santa Clara University’s website, Fullam taught a Sexual Ethics class to students last year. According to its syllabus, the course’s objective was preparing students to be “able to present Roman Catholic magisterial teaching on sexual ethics, and to engage other ethical viewpoints.”

Father Araujo

Father Robert John Araujo, S.J., a professor at Loyola University Chicago School of Law, wrote about why he believes Fullam is wrong on this issue at The Mirror of Justice.

Father Araujo raises an important point — particularly salient to readers of this blog — whether it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy when radical theology teachers say young people don’t agree with the Church’s teaching as those theologians may very well be the ones responsible for changing their students’ minds against the Church.

Father Araujo writes: “I can see how she contends that increasing Catholic support is becoming a ‘generational issue’ because more and more young people are being subjected to teachings which use the moniker ‘Catholic’ but, in fact, are not. As the More than a Monologue initiative partly sponsored by Fordham and Fairfield Universities illustrated and which I have previously discussed on these pages, nominally Catholic institutions of higher education, which have an extraordinary influence on the young, are not teaching what the Church teaches; moreover, these institutions are not exploring why the Church teaches what she teaches in spite of assertions to the contrary.

“For the most part at many institutions that claim the moniker ‘Catholic,’ students are being exposed to a shadow magisterium which is a corruption of rather than intellectual fidelity to Church teachings on the neuralgic issues of the day including marriage. While these young may be receiving a great deal of education, they are not receiving the wisdom of the Church….”

You can read Father’s entire piece at Mirror of Justice.

Or the original story on the Cardinal Newman website, here.

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Comments

  1. Enough already! Enough of Catholic parents paying lots of money to ship their kids to “Catholic” colleges, only to have them return full of lies and alienated from their faith. And, enough of “theologians.” And no matter what she thinks, sacraments like marriage don’t come up for a vote. We’re not Baptists.

    • She teaches at the seminary, not the university.

    • The Catholic colleges probably gain more financial return on the parents’ investment than the Baptist colleges do, and perhaps more than secular colleges in the fields of law, politics, business, education. But notice I said the return on the investment is money. Jesus did not come to teach us how to make more money. A true Catholic college shouls discipline the students in Catholicism while teaching them what the world consists of, its dangers, and how to participate according to the Great Commission. Financial investment in this type of Catholic education may not return a greater amount of money … Because the Great Commission is not about money, it is about the reason for being of Catholics.

  2. Why are dissenting or heretical theology teachers at supposedly Catholic schools not fired?

    • Laurette Elsberry says:

      Another question would be: How do they get hired? Simple answer – so many are part of the “gay” and/or dissenting underground, and their friends get them inside. This would make a most revelatory study. One group to look at would be Dignity; another is CALGM. (Look them up!) These are groups which are spinoffs from Fr. James Schexnayder, who is still working hard to (further) homosexualize Catholic parishes. Our California Catholic (sic) institutions of higher learning are rife with this ilk.

  3. Clinton R. says:

    The word ‘theologian’ means nothing. In fact, the word more often than not means you are about to hear a load of garbage by people who hate the Catholic Church and inject their poison into her. If you want real theology, read St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas.

  4. WOODY GUIDRY says:

    Would like to read the effect on population growth, if these people are left unchecked. Some of my friends say that we ought to just go ahead and let them unbreed themselves out of God’s plan. Would anyone care to take on the chore to push for that? Would not the MEANS to ridding our world of such- at the cost of our own morality and our God- be worse for all of us? Can we really expect deviate immorality to restore real morality in this world?

    • Woody, the Church has a purpose, often called the Great Commission. It requires us to manifest what the Church teaches. Silence and circling the wagons does not carry on the Great Commission. Catholicism is risky, not comfortable and secure; if you feel comfortable and secure, then awake and go forth among those hostile to God and manifest what He has done for you, what God has created of you, what you and God have produced in your being. Another way of expressing this is “pick up your Cross and follow Jesus”.

  5. The teaching of the Church hasn’t changed. The chief ends of the Sacrament of Matrimony are; 1. to enable the husband and wife to help each other save their souls. 2.To continue God’s creative act by bringing children into the world to serve God. And 3. to prevent sins against impurity by obeying the laws of the marriage state. (Baltimore Catechism) Same sex “marriage” sure looks like the opposite of all three. Makes one think!

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Facts might help here: No state voted on the Sacrament of Matrimony. What they voted on was the state’s issuance of civil marriage licenses. The Baltimore Chatechism is still intact in Maryland.

      • For how long before the state uses it power to force the Church to recognize sodomite marriage??? The liberal always appeases evil

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          1) Most (maybe all) of these marriage bills specifically say that the Church need not perform same sex marriages.

          2) Churches have never been forced to perform any marriages, for whatever reason, so there need be no fear that this will change.

          3) “sodomite” marriage ? That assumes that the couple are males and that they perform that specific act. This is certainly not true for female couples, and even among male couples, there is no requirement for them to perform sodomy in order to consummate their marriage.

  6. GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED and He has already warned us in Scripture, of the dangerous path that these frauds are taking. This country voted for evil and evil we have. Judas is waiting in hell for all of these ‘catholics’ that think that they know better than God and His one and only Church. Pray for the Holy Spirit to move this woman and others such as her to learn the real truth. It is not love that she is talking about, it is truly called LUST; the same lust that normal people have, which is why there are so many failed marriages. May God have mercy on us, even though we don’t deserve it. +JMJ+

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      In the “Mystical City of God” Blessed Mary of Agreda, the Mother of God tells us that the worse places in HELL are preserved for bad Catholics!

      Better to spend time in this Hell on earth serving God than to spend ETERNITY in HELL AS SLAVES OF SATAN!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

  7. Sin is still sin even if its fashionable….purge the Church

  8. Abeca Christian says:

    We are nearing the end times, with sodomy acceptance, I think that these are signs that the end times are coming…Jesus will come like a thief in the night……I’m sure with these wicked times, the signs are there to point to that.

    It’s very apparent that people choose homosexuality over Jesus…when asking who do you love more? We are seeing the times answer and history will repeat itself like the situation with Sodom and Gomorrah! I hope that the faithful be prepared….stay awake in Jesus and look to Him and be not distracted. We must pray for our youth to wake up! The adults will have to answer to God for how they went wrong with our youth.

    • Mark from PA says:

      Well, Abeca Christian, a lot more people choose heterosexuality over Jesus than choose homosexuality over Jesus. Look at all the gay priests that choose Jesus over their sexuality. A much high percentage of gay men are priests than heterosexual men. I don’t think the end times are near, that is just the ravings that one hears from fundamentalist sects, not Catholic Church teaching.

      • PA , gay men must be purged from the priesthood, as I mentioned before I have confronted them head on. They have no business in the priesthood, many of them are there just to be with other gay men and corrupt the priesthood. I know you will denies this because in your eyes gays can never do wrong, they are only the victim. Gays must be purged from the priesthood period….

        • Mark from PA says:

          Canisius, there always were and there always will be priests with a homosexual orientation. There are probably some religious groups that have no gays in their ministry but the Catholic Church is not one of them. Throughout the century gay men have contributed much to the Catholic Church. We have always been a very diverse Church.

          • PA will you please giving me some kind of school lesson I am not a child, you want gays in the priesthood, I for one know that they must be removed NOW…..tell me PA name a specific example where gay men have contributed much to the Church..except for corrupting it,..,..

          • Mark from PA says:

            Father Mychal Judge, who died in the September 11 Attacks was a gay priest. He was also a holy man that some now consider to be a saint. Many bishops also have a homosexual orientation. I will not go into details here but you can look up Richard Sipe who has done studies on the priesthood. I know of one church leader with a homosexual orientation who is very highly thought of by many of the posters here. I have read studies that say that about 30% of American priests have a homosexual orientation. However, most are not open about this due to fears of prejudice and discrimination. Priests are under no obligation to share this with others and many probably think it is their own personal business.

  9. Things are arriving at two churches: one state-approved “Catholic church” and one non-approved Catholic church. We can guess how those in the second group will be treated, by looking at China.

  10. “But our own teaching on marriage is richer than that–marriage has value that includes procreation (or not), but also reaches beyond that important but ultimately merely biological category to encompass all the richness of living in committed relationships. ” Very well stated!

    • peter, the utilitarian type of marriage you advocate prevents either party to such marriage from taking part in the union with God that the Church provides. So, you can choose a relationship that prevents you from gaining eternal life or you can choose the relationship that grants you eternal life.

    • peter, Which other clever stories and monikers have you been using on CCD to steadily erode and undermine Church Teaching regarding homosexuality?

    • Peter, homosexual acts are nothing more than one man abusing another man’s body, or both abusing each other. There is no “love” in it just lust. Quite simply put, the body was not constructed for such behavior without suffering the consequences. Then the rest of us have to pay for such misuse.

    • peter, do you mean committed in SODOMY ?

      There are many sins (gods) people can commit too, are you advocating them all ?

    • peter, read:
      Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:10.

      • Your Fellow Catholic says:

        PETER and others responding to the (other) Peter:

        I’m not sure why the quotation that Peter agrees with is causing so much difficulty for people. Fullam is clearly quoting a 1969 decision of the Rota, “the formal object of marital consent is not merely the “right to the body for heterosexual acts” (ius in corpus); but rather: “the right to the community of the whole life,” which is itself a restatement of a paragraph from Gaudium et spes, “Marriage to be sure is not instituted solely for procreation; rather, its very nature as an unbreakable compact between persons, and the welfare of the children, both demand that the mutual love of the spouses be embodied in a rightly ordered manner, that it grow and ripen. Therefore, marriage persists as a whole manner and communion of life, and maintains its value and indissolubility, even when despite the often intense desire of the couple, offspring are lacking.”

        • So how does this allow for homosexual marriage when Church teaching is against all homosexual actions?

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Well, Kaves1, you are mistaken when you say “Church teaching is against all homosexual actions”. Where do you get such an idea?

            But all I was saying is that Fullam is nearly quoting church teaching verbatim in the passage peter quoted. Peter’s quote said nothing about about homosexual marriage, did it?

            And a more general question for you: can a politician or voter ever allow something to be legal that the Church might consider sinful? For example, cursing is certainly legal, but most would consider it a violation of the Ten Commandments. So is a politician risking not being allowed Communion or Confirmation for his kids if he does not vote for a bill that would outlaw cursing?

          • Fellow Catholic – The CCC “Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.”142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. ” From this I understand that all homosexual sexual acts are always forbidden. Do you interpret differently? If so, how? I didn’t say peter’s quote said anything about homosexual marriage. I was merely asking the question in general. How does the quote support homosexual marriage? Does it or dosn’t it given that the CCC forbids homosexual actions?

          • Fellow Catholic, There are sins that are more grievous than others. Cursing, depending on context, may not be as grievous as supporting homosexual activity or abortion. It could be a venial sin. Reception of communion is permitted if a person has committed venial sins. However, if the person committing the sin you mentioned keeps doing so, openly and un-repentantly and with knowledge of the priest, then if I were the priest, I would deny the person Communion. The seriousness of cursing is a prudential judgment, whereas open, persistent approval of homosexual acts and abortion is always gravely immoral.

        • Also, Personna Humana says “In the pastoral field, these homosexuals must certainly be treated with understanding and sustained in the hope of overcoming their personal difficulties and their inability to fit into society. Their culpability will be judged with prudence. But no pastoral method can be employed which would give moral justification to these acts on the grounds that they would be consonant with the condition of such people. For according to the objective moral order, homosexual relations are acts which lack an essential and indispensable finality. In Sacred Scripture they are condemned as a serious depravity and even presented as the sad consequence of rejecting God.[18] This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can in no case be approved of.”

        • Fellow Catholic, In addition there is Levitcus, 1 Cor, 1 Tim that forbid homosexual acts without qualification. Do you disagree with these passages?

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Oops Krave, I wish I could edit my longish reply. I intended to say, ” I don’t claim that the Church teaches that sexual acts among homosexuals are NOT intrinsically disordered. Clearly it does.” I forgot the pesky litte NOT. Apologies.

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Peter,

        None of them, Mark from PA, peter, TEM give a damn about what Scriptures actually teach about their sodomite ways!

        We have quoted those Scriptures to them until we are blue in the face!

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

    • peter, can a relationship exist where the other denies the self and the baser instincts of the other for the physical and spiritual good of both?

      • To which I would add that Jesus said we should cut off our hand and pluck out our eye to avoid sin. This instruction from Jesus shows us the degree to which sacrifice may be necessary to avoid sin.

    • Anton L. Seidl says:

      Peter: “Committed relationship” is shorthand for sodomy. Avoid these words!

  11. “Lisa Fullam, an associate professor of moral theology…”

    okay, this is not CATHOLIC moral theology, so where is she getting these ideas from?

    the unitarians? the martians? the metropolitan communityh church?

    if she’s teaching CATHOLIKC moral theology, she should be teaching accurately, not making it up as she goes along…polygamy is okay…open marriages are okay…etc.

    • “Where is she getting her theology from?” ….The answer: From empty glass houses. Churches and Catholic Institutions have been sacked through years of compromising many teachings of the Catholic faith.

      Defend our good bishops! Jesus chose twelve flawed men and eleven remained as faithful apostles to spread the gospel and with the help of the Holy Spirit, after Pentecost, it only took 11 to renew the face of the earth.

  12. Woody:
    Immorality cannot remake the world, but it can unmake itself, which will make the job of the Church easier after the “gay tsunami” passes. As liberal demographer Joel Kotkin (who supports gay marriage) predicts, the non-breeding Left will hit a demographic wall within a generation, to be supplanted by the children born and raised in religious homes. That, by the way, is why, “preaching to the choir” is not such a bad idea in these matters. Encouraging faithful couples to have at least one more child and to watch over that child’s education closely hastens our victory.

    • Love your post, Tom! Let’s hold that thought. “All things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.” To picture these happy homosexuals rearranging the deck chairs on their little titanic, is easier to understand and pity.

    • Now there is a real hopeful prediction, what a great world it will be when the homo-left just non-breeds itself out of existence….we can then take over the culture and clean up the moral mess, 2 orders to be done first outlawing abortion, criminalize homosexuality…

    • Catholic Joe says:

      Tom:

      I couldn’t agree with you more…the big HOWEVER is the fact that we must pass a very rough and unfriendly dip (to say the least) before we get anywhere near victory.

  13. Everyone who lives in CA – - –

    Report Lisa Fullam to Diocese Bishop, Alex J. Brunett (just appointed Oct 4 as Apostolic Administrator) of Oakland.
    Provide:
    1) a copy of this article;
    2) refer to the CCC # 1660, 2357, 2358, 2359;
    3) refer to the CCC regarding heresy and Scandal – # 2089 and 2284, 2285, 2286, 2287;
    4) refer to the Bible – Gen 19: 1-29, Rom 1:24-27, 1 Cor 6:9-10, 1 Tim 1:10;
    5) refer to the Code of Canon Law 812 regarding “mandatum”;
    6) refer to Canon 915 (not being able to receive Holy Communion).
    7) In addition to the problem of Lisa Fullam,
    ask that the ‘Jesuit School of Theology at Berkeley at Santa Clara University’ be investigated for faithfulness to the teaching of the Church and hiring practices.

    The US Papal Nuncio from a very recent report –
    ” Archbishop Vigano observed that some influential Catholic public officials and university professors are allied with forces opposed to the Church’s fundamental moral teachings on “critical issues” like abortion, population control, the redefinition of marriage, embryonic stem cell research and “problematic adoptions.”
    He said it is a “grave and major problem” when self-professed Catholic faculty at Catholic institutions are the sources of teachings that conflict with Church teaching on important policy issues rather than defend it. “

    • Abeca Christian says:

      yes those who live in Santa Clara…close the situation…this needs to be reported. Thanks ANNE!

      • This professor teaches in Berkeley, not Santa Clara (which is a completely different diocese). Did you read the article?

    • Laurette Elsberry says:

      Thanks, Anne. Since there is a bishop now in Oakland – albeit maybe not a permanent assignment, I will write to ask him to denounce Fr. Schexnayder’s Book, “Setting the Table – Preparing Catholic Parishes to Welcome Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender people and Their Families”. This manual for homosexualizing parishes was reviewed by Bishop Cordileone, but still allowed into print. Perhaps Bishop Brunett will be more aware of the poison that Schexnayder is spewing, not just in the Oakland Diocese – but nationwide, and will denounce the book as it should have been previously.

    • Santa Clara is not part of the Diocese of Oakland, it is part of the Diocese of San Jose.

  14. Young people do not agree with Church theology because they are not presented with the Truth. A person who does not believe in Church teachings cannot teach the faith with love. A lesbian could not teach teach without condemning herself as well as those involved with abortion, those who are living together, those who have remarried without annulments, or those who never go to confession. That is why some Bishops are requiring a signed profession of faith before a person is allowed to present the faith to anyone.

    • In truth it is up to the Parents to make certain that youth are taught the Faith.
      CCC: ” 2221 The fecundity of conjugal love cannot be reduced solely to the procreation of children, but must extend to their moral education and their spiritual formation. “The role of parents in education is of such importance that it is almost impossible to provide an adequate substitute.” The right and the duty of parents to educate their children are primordial and inalienable.
      CCC: ” 2252 Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children in the faith, prayer, and all the virtues. They have the duty to provide as far as possible for the physical and spiritual needs of their children. ”

      The problem is that most parents do not read their own “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.

      Parents will be judged by Jesus on their own actions or inactions, not by what a Bishop or Priest does.
      Wake up parents, as long as you are breathing it is not too late.

      Give CHRISTMAS GIFTS of – copies of the CCC’s to all your children or grandchildren over age 16;
      copies of YOUCAT to all children between 12 &16;
      age appropriate catechisms to those under age 12.
      Then discuss the contents with them.

      • This needs to be taught from each pulpit.
        Parents have been abbrogating their specific responsibilities in life.
        Can you imagine what Jesus will say to lazy parents ?

  15. The bishops fail to lead. The liberals in the “Catholic” colleges have taken advantage of that weakness. If the Church’s “defenders of the Faith” don’t do any defending, just what good ARE they ? The bishops are at least organized in name. The lay people need to organize themselves into a force to hold their bishops accountable for doing what they are sworn to do. What else is there to do ? Complaints to the Vatican don’t work, there isn’t much else available.

  16. I am confident that her Bishop will yank her mandatum by the end of the day.

    Oh, what’s that you say? She doesn’t have the REQUIRED mandatum and even if she did her Bishop does not have enough fortitude to act like a bishop even is she had it.

    What is the one quality that will prohibit you from being named the ordinary of a diocese? Masculinity.

    Do you ever get the feeling no one is in charge?

  17. James 3

  18. Thomas Edward Miles says:

    The mentally unstable religious far right wing has been fixated on this issue and demanded a popular vote on gay marriage, they got it and they LOST, NOW LET US MOVE ON!!! I have no problem with CIVIL SAME SEX MARRIAGE, stability in relationships of gay folks is a blessings from the Lord, God forbid the gay folks should be happy in this world!! The BISHOPS need to get over it, NOW!!!

    • TEM, the Magisterium shows us that the end game of the sodomites is to rape God; cf, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis, the first book of the Holy Bible. If you want to join the sodomite cause, you have free will to do so. All we’re doing is warning you, and making it known to others who might be tempted to join you.

    • Miles –
      There is no right wing or left wing Catholics – only Faithful Catholics, Heretical Catholics, and Schismatic Catholics.
      Please rephrase your statements using the correct terminology so we can all understand it.
      Please use the definitions as stated in the CCC.

  19. Fr. Richard Perozich says:

    If homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and under no circumstances can they be approved, then the union of two people of the same sex who practice such acts can never be approved, called a marriage, or supported by Catholics.

  20. Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

    Who is to blame you all ask. I will tell you who is to blame. Catholic Bishops, thats who. How this stuff passes as “Catholic” and no one gets excommunicated is beyond me.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Now you are getting it…

    • The mother of a teenage boy in the Diocese of Crookston (Minnesota) told the Fargo Forum that their parish priest has denied the Sacrament of Confirmation to her son, Lennon Cihak because of his Face Book posts in support of same sex marriage.

      The mother did say that Bishop Michael Hoeppner of the Diocese of Crookston informed her that if Lennon stood before the Church and denounced his support of same sex marriage then he could be confirmed. It was an option that the family wasn’t willing to pursue. That would be lying.

      The article said that parents of Lennon have been parishioners at Assumption parish for their entire lives. The family said they are no longer allowed to take Holy Communion at Assumption Catholic Church.

      The topic of Canon 915 is now being publicly served to the bishops by public rebellion and NOW they HAVE TO address the topic publicly. No, they do not have to give private details but they do have to openly and publicly defend Church teaching and if rebellious souls publicly choose sinful relationships over God, then they will be denied Holy Communion. Now even Face Book is showcasing the loss of faith as a result of years of heretical teaching and spiritual neglect. The sacraments will have to be denied until true repentance and the families will make it public. The father of lies is now able to attack the Church even more from within by the rebellious offspring of it’s own “supposed members*. The best remedy is solid defense of Church teaching. Let us pray for, and heartily support the faithful and courageous bishops who will do the right thing when it comes to teaching the truth.

      Obama and his supporting minions, some within the Church have been patiently awaiting just this type of showdown at the NOT OK Same Sex Marriage Corral. Always remember God is in charge. God could stop all of this rebellion in a split second. Which side will we choose when God’s justice is finally served. God will have the final word and He has promised that the gates of hell will not prevail. The gates may rattle loud but only God prevails. In the end My Immaculate Heart Will Triumph! The faithful lines in the sand are being forced to be drawn by those who claim to be Catholic. You will know the faithful bishops by their persecutions for exposing the culture of death or you will know them by their silence or by their thrilling popularity with the world.

      Let us pray that many priests and bishops will send a very supportive message to this good priest and good bishop in Minnesota. Each bishop must be prepared to be the next one challenged. The opponents of enforcing Canon 915 claimed that you could not use the denial of a sacrament as a weapon. Canon 915 was never intended to be a weapon but a much needed healing remedy. If what this mother says is true, then may God richly bless Bishop Michael Hoeppner. A TRUE SHEPHERD!

      • Mark from PA says:

        I don’t think it was fair how the priest treated that teenager. He didn’t agree with a political campaign. For this he is denied confirmation? It is troubling to me that the family is no longer allowed to take communion at their church. They pretty much have been tossed out of their parish. I wonder how many teens have been denied confirmation for telling anti-gay jokes, bullying gay kids, calling gay kids names, etc. I wonder what the priest would say to those kids. Probably nothing, he would most likely just smile and look the other way. The message comes through loud and clear, “Queers are not welcome here.” That isn’t really the gospel message.

        • PA the real Gospel Message” get ready for it…..REPENT perhaps you and the rest of the gays should get that through your thick skulls, and supporting gay marriage like this so called Catholic has, does not qualify

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Catherine God bless Bishop Michael Hoeppner. I thank you for sharing this with us because its nice to hear more brave stories of great bishops!

        • Mark from PA says:

          Abeca Christian, if Lennon was your son, would you try to convince him to make a statement in front of a church full of people even if you knew it was a lie? Do you think Lennon should have done this just to get confirmed? Maybe if he did do this it would satisfy the bishop but I don’t think the bishop is being brave by asking this boy to do that. From what I have read, Lennon is not against any Church dogma. He just feels that gay people should be treated fairly and not discriminated against. He has a right to his opinion, doesn’t he?

          • If he supports “gay marriage” he is against Church teaching and dogma… period……

          • The only option the church has left for Lennon is to lie and bear false witness or to tell the church to shove it. Which seems the most likely? I’m sure most of you would be just fine in telling him not to let hit him on the way out. Let’s hope he follows his conscience.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            PA PA what do we do with your views? I don’t know…but if it was my son, sure will be happy that someone would tell him that there are consequences to believing away from God! Praise God!

            I like it when someone who loves the Lord and fears the Lord actually leads my kids!

    • We must contact the appropriate Bishop, and then the Papal Nuncio and Vatican if necessary.
      Most of us are to blame for sitting on our hands and merely complaining.

      There are estimated to be 560,000 in the Oakland Diocese. What if the Bishop’s office was bombarded with 5,000 or more emails demanding that Church teachings be upheld in any given situation ? ? ?

      Reread ANNE’s post of November 19, 2012 at 7:24 am.

      The devil’s friends are lazy complainers.

      • sb ‘ 560,000 Catholics ‘.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          PAUL S I agree but believe me when I tell you that many do take action when the situation is near ( I speak for myself)….so I hope that there is decent folks in Santa Clara who are near the situation that can write…

      • Paul S., do you really believe that all the posters here do is complain. Many of us, though retired from our regular jobs, have other “jobs” now. I have babysat while my daughter and others got petitions signed, etc. besides my regular duties. Many of us are still helping teach and talking care of a handicapped child. I know I do. That too is pro life, pro traditional family work.

        • Paul S. you have my apology. You did not say that ALL complainers did nothing, just most, and you could be right, although I doubt it.

  21. Maryanne Leonard says:

    Once again, and only in part as a refuge from the sort of insanity reported above, I refer you with confidence to Thomas Aquinas College in Santa Paula, Calfornia, a nationally recognized outpost of true classical education in the great Catholic intellectual tradition. It is not merely safe to send your own beloved children to this truly Catholic college, it is a gift you can give to your child that will last a lifetime and assist your child in becoming a true gift to the world as well. You can feel the presence of God on campus and see the light of love in the faces of the gifted, dedicated, happy and helpful young people on campus, whose bright countenances are living testaments to the worth of this fine Catholic college.

  22. Terence Weldon says:

    Fullam is undoubtedly right. The times they are a’changing, indeed. The bishops are sadly out of touch with the real world, and with the reality of loving, committed sexual relationships – of which they have (necessarily and sadly) no personal experience.

    They are also out of touch with the example and teaching of a certain Jesus Christ, who they claim to follow. Read the gospels again – there’s remarkably little on sexual ethics (other than the importance of fidelity), but a great deal about the importance of inclusion, of refraining from judgement, and above all, on the absolute pre-eminence of love as the first commandment: certainly NOT on the importance of blind obedience to religious rules, or doctrines.

    Or hadn’t you noticed that it was this principle that got him into trouble with the rabbis in the first place?

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Terence Weldon,

      “Whatever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven” Of course I don’t really expect this to make any difference to your sinfull atrophied mind, but I still try.

      May God have mercy on your sick soul,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

    • T. Weldon, what Bible are you reading ? Why do you leave out important parts ?
      Read: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:10.

      Regarding personal experience, most oncologists have no personal experience with Cancer; most psychiatrists have no personal experience with mental illness; so why should Priests be required to have sexual relationshiops to teach the Catholic Faith and provide us with the Sacraments?
      Jesus did not have sexual relationships.
      1 Cor 7:32-35; Mt 19:12

      Regarding obedience to religious doctrine if you want to get to Heaven – Mt 16:18-19.

      Regarding driving out the wicked: 1 Cor 5:11-13.

      Loving your Neighbor is not having sex with him or her.
      It is wanting him or her to get to Heaven for eternity.
      TRUTH does not change.

      • Some believe Jesus’ supposed non-mention of homosexuality implies active homosexuality is OK. This reflects a sub-Christian view of Scripture. This wrongly imagines only the Gospels are God’s Word. His disciples’ letters specifically mention homosexuality; Jesus, referring to His disciples says “he who hears you, hears me”.
        Jesus said nothing specific concerning sex with animals or incest or pedophilia. Are we to presume these are acceptable behaviors ?
        Jesus may have indirectly referred to active homosexuality when mentioning general immorality (porneia in Mark 7:21-23.). Some scholars believe 1st century Jews understood porneiai as a short-hand means to refer to the list of Levitical sexual prohibitions, which included sex with animals, incest, and homosexuality. Jesus did preached against homosexual acts – he included it with bestiality and incest.
        Unlike divorce and adultery, Jewish teaching concerning homosexuality was undivided and the incidents of homosexuality probably scarce, it is more plausible to me that (unlike divorce/adultery) incest, sex with animals, and homosexuality were not prominent Jewish 1st century issues. However, when His disciples preached to the Gentiles, they encountered incest and homosexuality – and preached against it.

        • Mark from PA says:

          Kaves1, homosexuality was probably there in the time of Christ but people did not have an understanding of the concept of sexual orientation. They recognized certain acts as wrong but did not know about the concept of orientation. A certain percentage of people don’t have a heterosexual orientation, but most people do. It was probably the same back then.

          • Wrong. Read the writings of the ancients – Greeks and Romans. They understood the concept and even thought it was biological.

          • PA, some examples:
            In Plato’s play Symposium (well known in the 1st century) the character Aristophanes refers to men who are lovers of males as those ‘who continue with one another throughout life. . . . desiring to join together and to be fused into a single entity with his beloved and to become one person from two’. Pausanias (another character), who was a lover of Agathon similarly emphasizes that lovers who love rightly ‘are prepared to love in the expectation that they will be with them all their life and will share their lives in common,’ ‘as if having been fused into a single entity with’ the soul of the beloved. Pausanias goes on to say: Men who love males ‘are not inclined by nature toward marriage and the procreation of children, yet are compelled to do so by the law or custom with the result that two joined males ‘live their lives out with one another unmarried’
            In Plutarch’s Dialogue on Love (late 1st – early 2nd century BC) Protogenes argues that man-male love is superior, not because it is more hedonistic but because, instead of having ‘as a net result the reaping of the fruits of pleasure, it ‘comes through friendship to the end and goal of virtue’. The character Daphnaeus in this work, defending the superiority of male-female love, concedes that homosexual relationships are not necessarily exploitative, for ‘sexual intercourse that is contrary to nature with males does not do away with, nor damage, a lover’s kindness [or: amorous goodwill]”
            The satirist Juvenal (early 2nd c. BC; Satire 2): effeminate men who willingly commit themselves as ‘brides’ to another man. For example, Gracchus, ‘a man renowned for his family background and his wealth,’ became the ‘bride’ to a common cornet-player and signed semi-official documents (Satire 2.119, 125, 129).
            Lucian of Samosata (mid-2nd c. BC.) tells of two rich women who regard themselves as married, the masculine Megilla of Lesbos and her ‘wife’ Demonassa the Corinthian (Dialogues of the Courtesans 5).
            Ptolemy of Alexandria (2nd c. BC) refers to manly women born under a certain constellation who are ‘lustful for sexual relations contrary to nature’ and take the active sexual role with women whom they sometimes call their ‘lawful wives’ (Tetrabiblos 3.14; §171-72).
            Several rabbinic texts forbid marriage of a man to a man; one referring to Egyptian practices even forbids marriage of a woman to a woman (Sifra on Lev 18:3)
            Clement of Alexandria likewise referred to ‘women … contrary to nature … marrying women’ (Paidagōgos 3.3.21.3).
            A lengthy defense of the love of boys appears in the work 3rd century A.D. Affairs of the Heart. Within it a debate takes place over whether love of women or love of boys is superior. One of the characters says “only the male love is a noble injunction of a wisdom-loving soul”. Also, “love of boys requires the exercise of reason (which animals lack)…Lions do not so love because they are also not philosophers… But for men practical wisdom coupled with scientific knowledge, from experimenting many times, having chosen what is most noble, the most steadfast (viz. the love between males)”

    • People adhering to the Church’s position should do so with love. They do not believe someone can truly love another if the person enables another to commit grievous sin. You may consider the Church’s position and its adherent’s wrong or misguided, but it is inaccurate and an error to call them hateful. What they are doing is trying to save your soul by warning you. It is not my words that are “hateful”, it is really God’s Words that you hate.

      People adhering to the Church’s position should do so with love. They do not believe someone can truly love another if the person enables another to commit grievous sin.
      If I truly love my brother or sister, I would want for them to go to heaven. To encourage anyone to continue on a path that is condemned by God, is not loving at all. God does not love tolerance of sin. Although scripture and Church teaching say we are not to judge, they also teach that we are to admonish (warn). Let us love our homosexual brothers & sisters enough to encourage them to lead a chaste lifestyle. They have a tough cross to bear & the Lord will help them with it if they ask Him to.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Kaves1, I compliment you on a thoughtful post. Yes, it is love to encourage someone to lead a chaste life. To me calling someone a sodomite because of their sexual orientation is the opposite of loving. It is hateful. And telling other posters about their sodomite ways? Some don’t seem to want to lead anyone to Christ, they just want to drive people that they look down on out of the Church. I remember the saying, “See how these Christians love one another.” I think people give better Christian witness by leading by the example of how they live their lives and treat others with respect and kindness.

        • PA, do you condone the typical male-male homosexual act given it’s un-healthy nature?

        • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

          Mark from PA,

          True Christians show their love for one another by trying to help them get to heaven, not by giving them excuses for their SINS.

          The Bible calls it Sodomy, maybe that is why you protest the use of that word so muchl. You actually reject the teachings of the Bible!

          Kenneth M. Fisher

          • Mark from PA says:

            Kenneth, I happened to look up Sister Edith Prendergast. I listened to her talk and I was moved by the goodness and holiness that I saw in this woman. This woman is a true Christian who is bringing Christ to others. I bet that she doesn’t engage in demeaning name-calling. So many of our religious sisters are an inspiration. But it does make me sad because some of my fellow Catholics look down on our religious sisters and see them as inferior to men.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Kaves1, thank you for educating me. What you told me is new to me, although I did know that the ancient Greeks did look favorably on sexual relationships between men. I was not aware that they had the knowledge that it was biological. I don’t know what other western cultures thought of this before the late 19th century. I also know that many American Indian nations viewed homosexuality in a favorable light. Many of them viewed homosexual persons as two-spirited and had great respect for these people. Some American Indian groups even had something akin to same sex marriage. However, historically, most of the white population of the United States saw little of value in American Indian languages, heritage and culture. So the country as a whole has had little use for American Indian languages, heritage and culture but today more and more American have respect for them.

        • PA, no it is not new to your. A couple of years ago I gave these to you and you responded with something to the effect of ‘interesting’.

          • Mark from PA says:

            Sorry if I forgot that Kaves1. Anyway, thanks for sharing again. Warm thoughts to you from snowy PA. We just had our first snowstorm today.

        • PA, let me ask again – do you condone the typical male-male homosexual act given it’s un-healthy nature?

      • Anton L. Seidl says:

        kaves l : One can never learn too much! Thank you for your thoughtful dissertation on homoerotic practices in ancient Hellas! Please consider one
        humble objection: The ancients were pagans. Their sexual ethics have been superseded by the gospels; they no longer apply.

        • Yes, I agree. But some pro-homosexuals argue that the concept of homosexual marriage or committed relationships was unknown, or that the idea that homosexuality was due to nature was unknown. This is not true. The ancients weren’t stupid. The Jewish philosophers were familiar with pagan teaching. These ideas would have been know to the Jews as well.

    • The “real” world is out of touch with God. The Church is here to help. The bishops are infiltrated with “real” world men who obstruct the faithful from converting the world.

  23. It isn’t just Catholic colleges, look at Catholic high schools. Generally, the requirement is for teachers to have a degree in Theology and what do they end up “teaching”? Social justice, of course. It matters not that the students have little or no background in the Church (CCD and some Catholic K-8 schools aren’t doing their jobs, either), let’s get them out on the streets to campaign for whatever!

  24. Mike Arata says:

    As several have commented or implied here already: Lisa Fullam is emblematic of the corruption which infests so many allegedly “Catholic” institutions these days. For a more complete background on her outlooks, Google “Lisa Fullam Commonweal” (but without the quotes), and select the first link — her blog for Commonweal.

  25. I believe it is time for Bishop Vasa to move on the University of Santa Clara. I think it is in his diocese. And Bishop has the spine to do it. The Jesuits may need to be dis-invited to this diocese.

  26. The Jesuit School is a pontifical faculty of theology. No “theologian” with views contrary to Catholic faith ought to be permitted to teach there.

    • Where would such authentic theologians come from, Sawyer? Anyone really faithful would likely not be interested in the various theology schools, since their main goal is to placate the potential funding sources. If you want real theology, you have to read it or seek someone out who does not receive money for learning or teaching it.

  27. Since pontifical faculties are established and approved directly by the Holy See, all of this proposed letter writing to the Bishop of Oakland (or to other bishops outside the diocese for the geographically challenged) are a complete wasted effort–the Bishop of Oakland has no jurisdiction in this matter.

    Letters should go FIRST to the Papal Nuncio and then (assuming no response) to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Keep copies and always include all copies in subsequent correspondence.

    I mailed my letter yesterday.

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Dave,

      As one who has actually gone to all of the Dicasteries in the Vatican under the sponsorship of an Archbishop with reports of scandalous actions, I would be very interested in learning if you actually get any response from your letter. I pray that you will, but I highly doubt it.

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

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