The Catholic part

Excerpt from the Biden-Ryan debate

 

The following comes from a Fox News transcript of the vice-presidential debate on Thursday night, Oct. 11.

RADDATZ: I want to move on, and I want to return home for these last few questions. This debate is, indeed, historic. We have two Catholic candidates, first time, on a stage such as this. And I would like to ask you both to tell me what role your religion has played in your own personal views on abortion.

Please talk about how you came to that decision. Talk about how your religion played a part in that. And, please, this is such an emotional issue for so many people in this country…

RYAN: Sure.

RADDATZ: … please talk personally about this, if you could.

Congressman Ryan?

RYAN: I don’t see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith. Our faith informs us in everything we do. My faith informs me about how to take care of the vulnerable, of how to make sure that people have a chance in life.

RYAN: Now, you want to ask basically why I’m pro-life? It’s not simply because of my Catholic faith. That’s a factor, of course. But it’s also because of reason and science.

You know, I think about 10 1/2 years ago, my wife Janna and I went to Mercy Hospital in Janesville where I was born, for our seven week ultrasound for our firstborn child, and we saw that heartbeat. A little baby was in the shape of a bean. And to this day, we have nicknamed our firstborn child Liza, “Bean.” Now I believe that life begins at conception.

That’s why — those are the reasons why I’m pro-life. Now I understand this is a difficult issue, and I respect people who don’t agree with me on this, but the policy of a Romney administration will be to oppose abortions with the exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother. What troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. Look at what they’re doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They’re infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals.

Our church should not have to sue our federal government to maintain their religious liberties. And with respect to abortion, the Democratic Party used to say they wanted it to be safe, legal and rare. Now they support it without restriction and with taxpayer funding. Taxpayer funding in Obamacare, taxpayer funding with foreign aid. The vice president himself went to China and said that he sympathized and wouldn’t second guess their one child policy of forced abortions and sterilizations. That to me is pretty extreme.

RADDATZ: Vice President Biden?

BIDEN: My religion defines who I am, and I’ve been a practicing Catholic my whole life. And has particularly informed my social doctrine. The Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who — who can’t take care of themselves, people who need help. With regard to — with regard to abortion, I accept my church’s position on abortion as a — what we call a (inaudible) doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church’s judgment. I accept it in my personal life.

But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the — the congressman. I — I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that — women they can’t control their body. It’s a decision between them and their doctor. In my view and the Supreme Court, I’m not going to interfere with that.

With regard to the assault on the Catholic church, let me make it absolutely clear, no religious institution, Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic Social Services, Georgetown Hospital, Mercy Hospital, any hospital, none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact.

That is a fact. Now with regard to the way in which the — we differ, my friend says that he — well I guess he accepts Governor Romney’s position now, because in the past he has argued that there was — there’s rape and forcible rape. He’s argued that in the case of rape or incest, it was still — it would be a crime to engage in having an abortion. I just fundamentally disagree with my friend.

RADDATZ: Congressman Ryan.

RYAN: All I’m saying is, if you believe that life begins at conception, that, therefore, doesn’t change the definition of life. That’s a principle. The policy of a Romney administration is to oppose abortion with exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother.

Now, I’ve got to take issue with the Catholic church and religious liberty.

BIDEN: You have on the issue…

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: … why would they keep — why would they keep suing you? It’s a distinction without a difference.

RADDATZ: I want to go back to the abortion question here. If the Romney-Ryan ticket is elected, should those who believe that abortion should remain legal be worried?

RYAN: We don’t think that unelected judges should make this decision; that people through their elected representatives in reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process should make this determination.

BIDEN: The court — the next president will get one or two Supreme Court nominees. That’s how close Roe v. Wade is. Just ask yourself, with Robert Bork being the chief adviser on the court for — for Mr. Romney, who do you think he’s likely to appoint? Do you think he’s likely to appoint someone like Scalia or someone else on the court far right that would outlaw (inaudible) — outlaw abortion? I suspect that would happen.

I guarantee you, that will not happen. We picked two people. We pick people who are open-minded. They’ve been good justices. So keep an eye on the Supreme Court…

RYAN: Was there a litmus test on them?

BIDEN: There was no litmus test. We picked people who had an open mind; did not come with an agenda.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/11/transcript-vice-presidential-debate/#ixzz293LdMhIw

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Comments

  1. Joe Smirking-Face Biden is a Catholic HERETIC and Catholic SCHISMATIC. Why Catholic Bishops let him get away with this is sinful.

    Biden thought everything going wrong in the Country was a laughing matter, and did not want Obama to take the responsbility for Obama’s 4 years in office. The old when you have nothing good to point to – blame someone else. Even his Democratic spin meisters called him a “happy warrior”.

    Make no mistake – He wants a litmus test to insure a Pro-ABORTION Judge for the US Supreme Court.

    “Be careful not to be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” – GK Chesterton

    “Moral issues are always terribly complex for someone without principles.” – GK Chesterton

  2. They have with some changed the definition of Life and the Laws were changed, now they are attempting to change the definition of Marriage. They have been defined by our Heavenly Father and it’s not for anyone to change Mr. Biden. Playing God is not a question I would want to answer on judgement day. What fools these people are.

    • I must also add that Mr. Biden is very vocal about how devout he is with being Catholic. Has he forgotten that using our Fathers name outside of praer is Grave Sin. You could hear him saying during the debate. What follows Mr. Biden is confession, just doing my part at being a Catholic.

  3. Father Karl says:

    Bishops of America, wake up! The wolves have been stealing and killing the sheep. Where are you? A terrible wolf named Obama is getting stronger, and an entire evil herd of (democratic) wolves is with him. Bishops, what are you doing to stop these wolves and vicious monsters? Are you mercenaries, or true shepherds? You are supposed to be Christ among us; well, MAN UP! Take control, and protect and guard your sheep! Our Lord is NOT pleased so far with the job you are doing: you ARE FAILING! This is probably your LAST chance to be real shepherds, and win souls for Christ. So please, teach,, govern, sanctify and protect the flock GOD has entrusted to you.Justice demands that you do your job!

  4. Catholics in name only. Boy, are we in trouble!

    • Abeca Christian says:

      We would be more in trouble if OBAMA administration wins again….don’t you know that the next president gets to pick out more judges on the next term, if Obama wins, they will have their way with more liberals judges! PLEASE USE LOGIC HERE FOLKS! Don’t get discouraged and trust in the LORD!

      • i’ve already voted, Abeca, fear not. I really liked early voting because I could look up the various judges and issues and vote much more knowledgeably. I admit I’m disappointed with Ryan’s views, but we know he has to appeal to many voters. I really liked his comment that abortion should not be decided by the courts but by the voters. I have always believed that the Roe vs Wade decision making abortion legal was completely illegal and anti-constitutional. Supposedly the Supreme Ct. is supposed to interpret the Constitution, not rewrite it! Didn’t Biden’s grimace (I guess he meant to be smiling but he looked like he had really bad gas) annoy you, though? I had to stop watching, as his condescension and rudeness was unbelievable . Isn’t it the duty of the moderator to reign in unruly or unfair behavior like making faces, interrupting etc.? The woman moderator was a super liberal journalist who used to be married to Ben Bradlee, ed. of the Wash. Post. I read she caused one Repub. to lose the race from a quest. she posed during a debate.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Good comments Dana Onward sister in Christ…

          • Abeca Christian says:

            I agree Dana, Biden was very rude. I don’t know if Ryan tried to appeal to many people but I think he knows what is at stake here, he knows that if Obama wins…partial birth and more great evils will continue on with forced taxes upon all people to pay for them….

  5. Larry from RI says:

    “Now, I’ve got to take issue with the Catholic church and religious liberty.

    BIDEN: You have on the issue…

    (CROSSTALK)

    RYAN: … why would they keep — why would they keep suing you? It’s a distinction without a difference”

    What’s this all mean?????

    • There are over 44 Law Suits against the Obama administration due to his trying to force Catholic employers – such as some Diocese, real Catholic Universities like Ave Maria, EWTN, Catholic owned businesses, etc – to pay for abortafacient drugs and contraceptives.
      This violates their religious freedom.
      Some Protestant Faiths are also suing – including the publisher of a Protestant Bible and Liberty University.
      The Obama Administration under HHS mandate has decided that none of these organizations are religious enough for an exemption.

      • “The Obama Administration under HHS mandate has decided that none of these organizations are religious enough for an exemption.”

        Yes, what the HHS rule did was change the definition of a religious organization; they narrowed that definition so that the only groups or institutions that could qualify for an exemption are those that are made up of, or serve, only members of that religion. Thus, organizations such as Catholic hospitals, charities and soup kitchens don’t qualify for the exemption.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Thank you MAC for pointing that out. More and more should sue the government because they should never have the right to force anyone to pay for health care that covers immoral issues, such as abortion, sex change operations etc!

  6. I was sickened when I heard Paul Ryan say abortion was ok in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother. What a hypocrit! He just got done saying that he and his wife call their daughter “Bean” because that is what she looked like on the ultrasound. What is the difference between his daughter’s ultrasound and the baby conceived in rape or incest ultrasound? There is NONE! What is the difference between his daughter’s ultrasound and the baby in the womb of the mother whose life is in danger? There is NONE! Voting for Romney/Ryan is a vote for an intrinsic evil and they will NOT be getting my vote! There is no voting for the lesser of two evils. Evil is evil and there is no such thing as being less evil when something is evil to begin with. I will NOT be voting for President in this election. I vote for God and life but unfortunately neither are on the ballot in this election! ONLY GOD can help and save this world of evil! Only God!

    • RR – You must be a supporter of OBAMA – he wants good Catholics to stay home.

      Obama wants ABORTION for CONVENIENCE, and wants us to pay for them through our taxes. His administration actively promotes abortion through the United Nations.

      The non-negotiables (intrinsic evils) are: ABORTION, EUTHANASIA, GAY-Marriage, and violating FREEDOM of RELIGION. Obama violates them all for everyone.
      In all elections always vote for the lessor of the evils.

      Obama supports the murder for convenience of approx 1 MILLION innocents each year,
      and the next person to be elected will appoint one if not two Supreme Court Justices.

      Go to ” What Catholics REALLY Believe Source ” for links which include comparisons of the Presidential candidates, and comparisons of the Party Platforms.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      RR please reconsider, you are wrong in your logic here, not voting and staying home is already giving Obama a free ticket to stay! I don’t want to debate this with you but your thinking is wrong…we have a lot at stake today, we can always work and pray for Ryan to have a change of heart there but with Obama there is no chance. You keep forgetting the bigger picture here.! Please reconsider! God bless

      • Abeca Christian says:

        RR I say this with no pun intended and not directing it directly at you, I say it with respect out of charity.

        But I find it cowardly for people to state that they will not vote for neither and that they will stay home and not vote…that is such a coward thing to do, Go out and face the lion….we can work with those who have at least a sense of fear of the Lord in them, like Ryan/Romney but we can’t work with men like Obama/Biden! Please reconsider!

        • Abecca: How am I being cowardly when I am doing what the Church says to do when you are to form your conscience according to Church teaching? Church teaching says under NO circumstance is abortion acceptable. We are to respect and protect life at every stage of life. Romney/Ryan say they are pro-life, but yet they say they are going to do nothing in the cases of rape, incest, or the life of the mother. Who is being the true coward here? If they are truly pro-life they need to protect ALL of God’s little innocents! Not some! I am standing up for ALL life, not what a politician says to get elected. They are the ones being cowards. You are either pro-life or not! A vote for the Republican ticket does not mean they will do anything to end abortion. The Republicans all say they are pro-life, but none of them do anything about it. They have had opportunities and they have done nothing. So, what do you do, Abecca? Do I tell God I voted for someone who says they are pro-life but really aren’t? Go fight the lion? I believe I am by not voting for anyone who is not 100% pro-life! If I am truly pro-life I cannot support abortion in any situation. I DO NOT consider this cowardice. I consider it being hard-core pro-life. This is not just a rash decision that I gave no thought to. I understand what everyone is saying that they are better than Obama. I really do. I really agree with that. But my conscience is telling me that I cannot vote for anyone who is not 100% pro-life. Is that so wrong or cowardice? In my formed conscience, NO. If that is how you and others see me, well, so be it. But I am the one who will stand in front of God at the end of my life and I will be judged for my thoughts and actions. I do not want to stand in front of God and say that I didn’t vote 100% pro-life for ALL His innocent little ones. Those babies born to mothers of rape or incest, or the ones killed for the mother, were still created by God and deserved our protection too. God had a plan for them too. In my oppinion, Romney/Ryan sold their religious beliefs and values for a political position and for votes. They new if they fought for the babies of rape, incest, or the life of the mother that they would lose a lot of votes. I’m sorry this offended you to the point you called me a coward, but that is what my formed conscience tells me to do. And for, I believe it was MAC, who called me an “Obama supporter” : Whatever! I consider it not selling out my soul at the expense of any of God’s little innocents. I care about what God thinks of me, not you or anyone else. I really don’t think anyone who votes for Romney/Ryan are selling their souls, but what I am saying is this is what I believe of MYSELF. This is what MY conscience is telling me that I am doing. If your conscience is telling you to vote Romney/Ryan, I think you are right to do that. They are definitely the lesser of the two evils as far as abortion, the HHS mandate, homosexuality,…..I can’t Abecca. I just can’t. I just keep thinking of the story that Paul Ryan said of his daughter looking like a bean. Then I hear him say that in cases of rape and incest or life of the mother, that is what he supports. What is the difference between his little bean and those innocent babies conceived in rape or incest? To me there is none. Until I saw that debate and thought about it more, I planned on voting for Romney/Ryan. I was doing what most Catholics were doing, which was voting the lesser of two evils. After seeing Ryan tell that story and then flip-flop, I just can’t. I have a hard time expressing and writing my thoughts. I am NOT a good writer like many here on CalCath who are very fluent writers. Just know that I am NOT telling anyone they are wrong in how they vote. I am simply trying to express how I, MYSELF, have formed my conscience. If anyone feels I judged them, I haven’t. Maybe, it is because a part of me does still want to vote for Romney/Ryan but I just can’t get past the exceptions of rape, incest, or the life of the mother. These are my thoughts. They may be a jumbled up mess, but this is what I am thinking. Are we not to vote what our informed conscience is telling us to do? Can someone help me here?

          • Abeca Christian says:

            RR this is the trouble I have with ultra traditionalist…they justify not voting for neither in the name of saving the unborn but they are fooled because you are missing the whole picture here…..not voting already is supporting this culture death…read the rest of my comments here, when I get a chance I’ll try to reply to you later but RR I don’t get your logic, no matter how you try to justify it.

            No politician is perfect but if you really dislike Obama, who is the worst president ever, then you would do what it takes to do and fire him from his current position. With Ryan at least there is still hope in their conversion story because they at least have an understanding of God and their convictions can grow but with Obama, his record shows us that he will do anything at all cost to continue his destruction of morals…I just suggest you pray with humility about this.

          • You sound like Hamlet, RR and your handwringing is steaming up my computer screen, and we all know what happened to our egregious Dane. Better, far better had he been less high=minded, for as it was, he left his people in the lurch, his kingdom in disarray and committed a mortal sin on top of all that. All we’re asked to do here is to vote for the least evil person if that is all we’ve got on the menu. There are quite a few other names on the ballot,RR and you can even write one in, but everyone feeling these holier-than-thou, seeking the perfect and saintly candidate views, should know that they’ve basically voted for the most anti-family, anti-life, anti=Christian, anti-Jesus president we have ever had or that we could possibly imagine. If you have difficulty deciding between him and a pro-life, pro-family, pro-Christian (even if he is not) man that is ruled by a strong ethical and generous heart then frankly, I don’t think anything ANYONE suggested to you would make the least difference. What I would seriously suggest to you and those who share your quandry is to start reading GK Chesterton at the earliest opportunity!! Begin with “Orthodoxy’. And I’m sending a hug your way, as you sound like a really sweet person.

          • Abecca and Dana: Before I comment on your posts I want to tell you both that I got my answer yesterday from a letter to the editor in the Remnant Newspaper. I won’t go into the whole letter, but a man wrote in about voting and he wrote two senarios. He told of the consequences of voting and not voting. The not voting part related to how I was feeling. It was many thoughts about what I was feeling. What got me to finally decide to vote for Romney/Ryan was the point he made about the future for my children and grandchildren and what kind of world our kids would be in if we don’t get rid of the Obamination. I was so focused on the “now” with abortion instead of the future. To make a long story short, I will be voting for Romney/Paul. Now, to respond to your posts. Abecca: I first and foremost take offense for being called an “ultra traditionalist.” I do NOT refer to myself as an “ultra traditionalist.” I am nothing but a Roman Catholic that loves the God and His Church, Our Blessed Mother, and my faith. To suggest that I pray with humility is an insult to me since if you knew me you would know that I am a very humble person who only tries to do what God and His Church tells me to do, like yourself. I am humble to the point of being scrupulous at times and being in despair, which as we both know are NOT good things. I never claimed to have “logic” in what I was saying. I was trying to convey what my conscience was telling me. These were my thoughts. A part of me knew voting for Romney/Ryan was probably the thing to do, but I couldn’t get past the abortion thing. Believing this does NOT make me an “ultra traditionalist.” Calling me this was an insult to my faith. Now to Dana: I first of all want to say that I do NOT know the story of Hamlet. I have never had to read it, believe it or not, and I can truly say that I never will. I am 46 yrs old and I think I would be bored to tears to read it. So, I really could have been insulted by you here and I wouldn’t even know it! LOL! Also, I am in NO way “holier-than-thou.” Read above what I wrote to Abecca about humility. I will accept that hug you sent to me with humility because sometimes I really do need one when I’m struggling spiritually. I’m sending one back to you and Abecca for being two people who really care about God and His Church! Thank you both for caring enough to respond to try to help me! I truly appreciate it! God Bless you both!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            RR my apologies if you felt insulted because I used the Ultra traditionalist word. I didn’t mean to offend but I guess I was just comparing your logic to that thinking. My apologies. I’m so sorry, you are always a good person and I value your love for the faith and our Lord, I’m so sorry for making you feel that way.

            I was always taught that since we regular people can not end abortion, that we just vote for the ones that can help us have less abortions to a goal of hoping in ending abortion altogether…The church has taught us that we ought to vote for the one who will help us towards that goal even it if isn’t so perfect…this is politics folks. We can’t fool ourselves by saying I’ll vote for an independent, well then you might as well go ahead and vote for Obama again because chances are, is that A Republican or a Democrat will win and for now, we should all have the same goal in mind and that is to fire Obama and how we do that? It is to use logic and vote for Romney not an independent.

            It’s not Rocket science but it makes sense….we have a duty to vote for the lessor of evils because that is how it works in the wisdom of the secular. We all know that conversions can happen to someone who at least has formed a conscience under God but working with a man who formed his conscience in the liberal ideologies away from God, then we have a great monster of a problem to deal with.

    • Neither party supports a culture of life. Traditionalist Catholics who believe that the Republican Party is their home are fooling themselves. The Church and its laypeople, for its survival, should remain out of politics and not stick itself onto any one candidate or party. This country will not survive as a democratic country if its political system is controlled by any one church or religion or by corporations. Both parties will pander, assuming that Catholics cannot think for themselves or that all Catholics are the same. Don’t assume that your priest, or Bishop or the Pope or Paul Ryan is free of corruption. Jesus was killed by corrupt individuals and our Church has been forever scarred by corrupt persons in authority from the Inquisition and on, which facts we ignore on a daily basis, without any recognition that we have allowed the corruption to fester.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        JP the platform is meant to be pro-life…please stop saying such foolish things, yes we have traitors to that platform and we can hopefully identify them and hopefully get them out but the platform for the Republican party is meant to be pro-life, pro-family etc. Less government etc.

        I think that we all fool ourselves when we have this fantasy that politics is suppose to be perfect and godly, the wisdom of the secular is just what it is today. We understand that their wisdom and their knowledge is not always perfect along side with God, politics is what it is and we must use logic and reason in helping it move closer to the reality of what it may need to be to meet and respect our faith values.

        Even Jesus when he picked his apostles, he knew how imperfect they were, he knew he would be betrayed and denied three times….but still he worked with that. We have a moral duty to work with what is the reality of this secular and get elected whom will get close to our goals that honor God.

    • To RR, I understand your frustration on the exceptions for abortion. Paul Ryan is pro-life, and running on the Romney platform. I am sure that the exceptions were not fully sanctioned by Ryan. Should he have accepted to run with Romney if he new these facts? Things are never easy, but less evil is the goal, and Obama promotes more evil, much more. You can also look at the fact that abortion for rape and incest is 0.5 to 1% of all abortions. As for the the life of the mother, this is more disconcerting to me than the other 2 reasons. I do not know the guidelines, but does this also include mental health, and can the decision be made at any juncture in the 9 months of pregnancy? Usually when the life of the mother is more acute, the baby can be delivered by cesarean and the little one put in NICU to try and save its life. I believe as you do, that all life is sacred no matter how the child was conceived, but I also believe that the Romney/Ryan ticket will do all they can to lower this hideous evil, and cut funding to Planned Parenthood. To wait for perfection may not be morally right either, and Romney is not a Catholic. Please reconsider, God is still working, and you may not vote for a long, long time if you wait for a total Pro-life ticket. I do believe that these men are decent and good, and hopefully more god-fearing than what we have now. If you were told that you could take 25 children out of a concentration camp, and there were 50 children, would you say no because you knew that the other 25 were going to be put to death. With PPACA we will not have the chance to save 25 lives, abortion will only increase.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        I see no frustrations at all, I see it easy, we just have to get Obama fired. That is the goal….we must use our logic now and it is very apparent, that the only way to fire Obama is to hire Romney. We need to stop being scrupulous, for God knows our hearts….
        Ryan may not be perfect but I do feel that he has a kindred heart, one that can come to a full conversion, all we need is prayers for him and trust in the Lord.

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      RR.

      Ryan did not say that abortion was ok in the cases of rape and incest! He said that was the position of Romney campaign, there is a difference.

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Oops, I left out “health of the mother” in the above reply.

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

        • Abeca Christian says:

          RR I am so sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you…Please forgive me. Or should I appease Dana because she has me showing off my french “Je suis désolé, je ne voulais pas offenser vous … Veuillez me pardonner. “. I hope I made you smile…i mean it.

  7. Whaaa! Ryan, do you really think abortion is OK in case of rape, incest or the health of the mother? It’s not! Abortion is never OK! Jeez. And, Biden, saving the innocent–read the UNBORN–is our duty as Cathoics. Your statement that you don’t believe in abortion but would never impose your belief’s on others is anti-Catholic.

    • The direct Abortion to end the life of a baby is never OK.

      Go to ” What Catholics REALLY Believe Source ” for a link to a statement about indirect abortions from the USCCB.
      The linked letter from the USCCB explains the difference.

    • Maryanne Leonard says:

      Sandra, I agree with you, it is disheartening to say the least to hear a man who is known to be a good Catholic be forced by the reality of the situation to have to say what the Romney administration’s position will be on abortion; mostly against it, but not 100%. I think his personal position is in agreement with yours and mine, but reality is that he has been picked to be a part of the Romney administration and is not in charge of the policies of the administration; he’s just the vice-presidential hopeful, and not the boss. He has said that he feels the American people should vote on this issue, which suggests that it may become another state-by-state issue. Catholic values do not control the United States of America, its policies and laws. We will be doing well to have a Catholic V.P. in place, especially if you consider what America would be like with Joe Catholic-in-Name-Only Biden as president. Even should Paul Ryan have to take on the presidency at some future time, he still will not be able, single-handedly, to control the legality of abortion in this country; he will not be in the position of dictator even if he becomes president. It is good to have high standards regarding human life, but in a country that is a democracy, no single man, and no single religion, runs our nation. I’ve always wondered if the Vatican is a nation-state that people can move to, or is it just the place reserved for the hierarchy of the Catholic Church? If we could live there, I’d be happy to learn Italian and move there, but in the meantime, when in America, do as the Americans do.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        The OBAMA monster is living within many people, indifference and division so people will back away from the better conservative just so Obama can win! Obama won because the illogical indifference’s people are choosing to go with! SHAME ON ALL SELF righteous folks who are discouraging the many who are trying so hard to get the monster out…look at the big monster….he is the one who is spreading gay marriage, more abortions on demand just for any reason, taking away religious freedom, slaving the people with socialism, using public education to govern and indoctrinate them with immoral agenda’s! Look at the bigger picture….The DEVIL HAS YOU WERE he WANTS YOU TO BE JUST SO you can rationalize things his way!

      • When we all stand in front of Our Lord someday, I’m not going to say that I didn’t stand up for life 100% because if I did, I couldn’t get elected.

    • Just so I am clear about this Abeca, if you had a daughter who got pregnant and the doctor said that she would die if she carried to term, you would advise your daughter to carry the baby? Knowing she would die. You would do that to your daughter? What if she was the mother of four or five kids who needed their mother? Would you advise her to die by carrying to term? What if your teenage daughter was pregnant by your husband, her father? Would you advise her to carry the baby? I am not making a judgement here. I just want to make sure I understand your position. Would you comment, please. Thanks.

      • Direct abortion is always inextricably sinful, Bob One. What if you were given the choice of being fed to a pool full of pirhuana or renouncing your Catholic faith? What would you do? A. If it was all being publicized over network TV, or B. is it was totally private in a dungeon with only a few evil people taking part?

        • Abeca Christian says:

          JLS you always have a way to get them thinking, Bob one what do you have to say…admit it he makes sense. : )

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Bob one, I almost lost my life in one of my pregnancies but I still chose to find the solution to not directly end a life…..Bob one, please don’t use my child in your example…if you want, use me as the example, then do so. I am a living example of almost losing my life but I praise God that in the end, I did right by God even if I was close to die and my body underwent excruciating pain(without going into detail)…but I wasn’t going to directly EVER end a life.

        God was my strength during that tragedy, I bled for almost 6 months straight…It was due to me wanting to do the right thing by God and yes a lot of suffering, researching finding the right pro-life support and God blessed me, he spared my life. There was no way we could of saved my pregnancy, there was no way without it killing me, the baby would of still died in my womb.

        So your question was answered by someone who did the right thing even on a life and death situation and I hope that by my example and my faithfulness to Jesus that it gave a great witness to my kids.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Bob One you were clear….did you read my response? How about JLS’s response…don’t just throw out comments without responding to what we replied to you, if your heart is heartened to the fact that people do seek to do right by God, then that is where the issue is not on what if’s…….

      • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

        Bob One,

        On this Catholic Site, why do you feel so comfortable taking positions that are in direct opposition to the those of the Church?

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

  8. The mantra that abortion is OK in case of rape, incest or the mother’s health is the Mormon mantra not the belief of Catholics–which is His Truth. Abortion is never OK, period.

    • That is because Mormonism holds that there is a pool of souls waiting to be put into a newly conceived body … something along this line of thought. Thus, they can be ok with abortion because that particular soul can wait for the next conception.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      That is right Sandra…abortion is never OK Period. Right on!

  9. Warren Goddard says:

    Paul Ryan should have shown that the legality of abortion is a civil rights issue.

    • He has to get elected first; such a proclamation would cost him votes.

      • Stand up! Never waiver! Do not worry about those that won’t vote for you–they are not going to vote for you anyway.

        • Then it is pointless to enter politics, like duh, Sandra. The only solution is what the Pope has called for, bishops becoming holy. All other attempts have been tried recently and historically, and all have failed. Holy bishops is the only way it has ever been done.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            JLS you bring up good points…people act like they want a perfect man or another messiah to stand firm and yet they discount that we are living in a society that has only worldly wisdom, they make excuses to bash what little goodness we can to try to get in office. Who is more dangerous to me? The folks who make every excuse in the book to nit pick at the better candidate….LOOK at the MONSTER…who may that be? It is NOT RYAN!

          • WRONG! What is needed is a holy Church—that is a holy clergy and a holy laity.

    • Maryanne Leonard says:

      As a matter of fact, Paul Ryan said precisely that. I think he is right, that he cannot impose his position on abortion on anyone, as merely the vice president, should he be elected. This is not a Catholic dictatorship; more’s the pity. Wish it were, but it’s a democracy, folks. He said to put it to a vote of the people, and I believe he means it. That means there is a very good chance this could be reversed, at least in some states, and that amounts to doing the best he can in the position to which I heartily hope he gets elected.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Yes Maryanne if Romney/Ryan put in the hands of the people, then that is awesome! Better than Obama wanting to put it in their liberal hands and telling us what to believe and embrace,,,Ryan is for less government…he is smart about that, so lets vote for the Republican party!

  10. Life Lady says:

    Roe vs Wade is unconstitutional. It has denied 53 million unborn citizens of the USA their fundamental right to Life. I would oppose anyone who supported it. Biden thinks, or says, he would not impose his personal values on others of other faiths? Well, in saying that he therefore agreed that he has not upheld the Constitution of the United States of America, as he swore to do on inauguration day. Article I guarantees all citizens the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. When you deny them the right to Life, they are denied a basic right under the Constitution. This is not a personal issue, or if it is, then he should not have run for office or been in office if he could, or would, not uphold those truths as are self evident as stated in the Constitution. Biden, and any other “catholic” politician who uses that arguement has admited that he is irresponsible and cannot, or will not, uphold the most basic tenent of the Constitution of the USA, and therefore is unfit to hold that office, and so is every other politician (I don’t care if they are a person of faith or not). Therefore, since they are unfit, and unwilling to uphold Article I of the Constitution, they should resign from office. They are good for nothing and should be replaced with people willing to stand up for the Constitution and uphold the values stated in that document. Repeal of Roe vs Wade is essential since it also denies those basic rights to unborn citizens of the USA. A citizen within their mother’s womb is deserving of protection, and so are their rights, to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Biden says he won’t impose his faith on people, well he is imposing the faith of the pagan world on the people of faith…what a hypocrite! His administration is imposing their liberals socialistic idealism on all the American people, he is sure crooked and what a backwards thinking, he is doing what he doesn’t want to do on others in faith based ideals but he is imposing socialism on all people, that is not constitutional! He is imposing his views on the people but cowardly ignores to live out his faith! HE IS NOT A FAITHFUL CATHOLIC!

    • Biden is to society what Sandusky is to boys.

  11. I was livid about this question. Would she ask a Jewish person or a Methodist or a person of any other denomination this question? Ryan did a good job and Biden gave his usual “Catholic when it is convenient for me” answer but the question did not need to be asked. Biden should be ashamed of himself.
    God Bless Paul Ryan.

  12. Oh Biden, but there is an agenda with the Democrats. It is abortion any time for all 9 months for any reason. You may not agree personally, but you are complicit in the millions of babies being aborted. You may be pleasing to the leaders of the Democrat party, but I do not think that you are pleasing to God on this issue.

  13. Tom Barbarie says:

    I’ll never understand politicians such as Paul Ryan not taking the initiative on the abortion issue. One does that by pointing out the horror of late-term abortion, one holds those grisly murders up to the light and hangs the tiny corpses on his opponent to wear. There is no need to get defensive when the rape-and-incest bombs are hurled at us: legitimate rape — and that is a perfectly good term: a legitimate rape is not one which goes unreported for days, a legitimate rape does not need to be mulled over — can be treated by D & C in the hours following the incident, before there can be any expectation that fertilization has occurred. When that topic is brought up, then partial-birth abortion is the indicated rejoinder. (Along with Obama’s refusal to back medical care for abortion survivors.)

    • Abeca Christian says:

      good point Tom.

    • Before politicians can do anything, they have to get elected … won’t happen with a candidate who proclaims the full and total Catholic position. The likelihood that Ryan will help reduce abortion and block gay politics is high; whereas, Biden has already shown that he pushes extreme moral and social degeneracy.

    • No politician can come close to high profile national election by proclaiming the Church doctrine on abortion. Some members of Congress, especially the House, have succeeded; however, when the office or the numbers begin to threaten the abortion proponents, the threat is removed: Look into the Bob Dornan situation. Kenneth can provide full details, and has on previous posts.

  14. there can be NO exceptions for rape,incest,the life of the mother…it is still a HUMAN LIFE….period……

    • Abeca Christian says:

      AMEN WALT!

      Because Ryan is still not as extreme as the Biden, we can still reach him …so that should not stop us from voting against Obama…VOTE ROMNEY/RYAN

    • Ryan if elected to VP, may be then able to work effectively in throttling back some abortion numbers; however, the VP may not find himself involved in any situation where he is faced with an all or nothing. Even helping find prolife replacements for retiring SC justices would be a formiddable task. A number of these candidates end up on the high Court and then make abortion even more prevalent. Some of you readers still do not realize or understand that the public voter at large does not see abortion as critical. The voter tends mostly towards the pushing of wealth, power and lust as their basic needs in life now and in the hereafter … despite the fix that always goes into the prolife surveys that claim America is now prolife … hogwash, as they’ve been telling the same wishful thinking story for over thirty years. BTW, these prolife groups will lose their careers if it abortion is ever banned. They have yet to lean on the bishops to grow strong … Ask yourself why this is. The bishops are insulated from being pressured to shape up or ship out by countless bureaucracies, both inside the clerical structure and dynamics and in the lay realm. Those bishops who choose a path to holiness are almost always sent to dioceses that consist of a few hundred souls, or so it seems … to policially irrelevant dioceses. It is up to the bishops to en masse grow holy … the laity might be able to help them if it also were to choose this direction in life.

  15. WOODY GUIDRY says:

    Will it ever be questioned again as to why Catholic freedom of religion was tossed aside when Catholic employers had to provide insurance for employees which gave contraceptives, etc., as part of a free package?

  16. It is about time for Cardinal Dolan to come front and center and publicly excommunicate Biden, until he learns what it means to be a Catholic and act accordingly. This man should learn from St. Paul that even liars CANNOT get into Heaven, which is the reason why there are so few lawyers in Heaven. He needs to learn what the Rosary is and how to use it, which means that he has to quit shoving it down people’s throats. He is just a lazy (of which he admitted) man that refuses to get a honest job and his lying just keeps going on and on. How about the perfect ‘democratic’ ticket for 2016ad (if we still have a government) with Biden and Gore. It won’t matter which is president or v.p. as they can switch places every time one of them opens their mouths and comes out with one of their thought producing gaffs. +JMJ+

    • Oh, no, JMJ. Cardinal Dolan is much too busy hosting dinners for obama and sanctifying social justice maven, Dorothy Day. To me, making her a saint is like giving obama the Nobel Peace prize. I’m so sick of hearing about social justice, Wasn’t she a communist at one time? I know she had a change of heart, but that same understanding seems to overshadow much of what she did. And it is always, always, always the same ones who find fault with orthodox Catholics or being able to make themselves align with Pope Benedict and with Rome, who want this. You won’t hear him condemning VP Biden anytime soon…it might be perceived as unkind and unfriendly. Losing one’s soul or going to Hell for eternity is the lesser evil apparently.

      • If these bishops really had the mind of Christ, then they’d be outsmarting the govt, but they aren’t.

      • Dana, what do you know about the Dorothy Day offshoot, as it is today, Catholic Workers? I wonder if they are what they publicize, or if they are complicit with Madison Avenue marketing and government funding.

    • The Catholic heretic and schismatic JOE BIDEN has already strongly been chastised by his Bishop in Delaware – his home Diocese.
      Search: “Biden forbidden to speak at Catholic Schools”.

      However, Biden continues to spread his poison by speaking at public schools across the nation.
      This indoctrination of children should not be permitted.

    • Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka says:

      Its a nice thought, but Cardinal Dolan does not really care that much, neither does his brother bishops, otherwise that nun bus tour, LWCR and all the rest would be protestant by now.

      While I understand FSSPX are also in the same boat, I do understand why Bishops are much more eager to oppress them than they are the leftists.

      Worldly approval is appealing.

    • Cardinal Dolan does not have the authority to excommunicate Joe Biden. Cardinal Dolan is the archbishop of New York. Biden does not reside in New York. The only bishops that have the power to excommunicate Biden are the bishops of Delaware and Washington D.C. where Biden lives and works.

      • All cardinals and bishops have the authority and means to criticize the likes of Joe Biden and all the other spiritual schmucks out there.

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      I have written this before, and I will now write it again. The only one other than the Pope who can excommunicate someone is that someone’s own bishop!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

  17. All the more reason to make sure you vote for Obama in November!

    • Abeca Christian says:

      peter just proved my point folks! SEE why you need to vote for Romney/Ryan….if not you might as well go party with peter and Obama! (with all the gay fans too)

    • peter, The issue here is abortion and the Catholic position on that issue. Curious how you view everything through a homosexualist lense. Did I say curious? I meant to say disturbing.

    • Maybe you, peter, can get a ride in Obama’s limo in the back seat … would be the highlight of your career as a homosexual, huh?

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      peter,

      Bishop Poprocki has clearly stated what you can expect in Eternity if you vote for Obama!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

  18. FrMichael says:

    JMJ:

    AFAIK the Vice President is a subject of Archbishop Wuerl of Washington, not NY. It makes no sense how Cardinal Dolan could excommunicate him.

    Alas, the odds of Wuerl doing so is on par with the odds of you or me becoming Ambassador to Hungary.

    • Fr.Michael, the Vice President is not a subject of the Archbishop. No person is a subject of any Bishop. That went out in the middle ages!

  19. I noticed that you, Cal-Catholic did not place Ryan’s statement about being in favor of abortion in cases of incest, rape and to save the life of the mother before sending us to the link for the rest of the story. Nice try. It just so happens that Ryan too is off the track of Catholic doctrine with his statement that I mentioned above. Both of these guys are pro-abortion and everyone knows it. Neither one of them is a pure Catholic. Vote for whom you will.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Paul give me a break! Those of us who watched it, saw it but I look at the whole picture and I would rather deal, pray for daily during a presidency for Romney/Biden than deal with another 4 years of Obama and all the bickering folks here who will bicker about Obama and who didn’t vote at all, or voted for an alternative because they didn’t like neither…come on! The Obama administration accepts, all abortions, partial what have you…also embraces gay marriage, ….the picture is much bigger than what you just pointed out and the Obama one is a huge monster that will only continue to grow while it’s being fed!

  20. I have just emailed a link to CCD newsdesk, regarding the – - – - –

    US Bishops responding to the FALSE STATEMENT made by BIDEN at the debate regarding HHS mandate & Freedom of Religion.

    Hope they get it in time prior to the weekend.
    http://usccb.org/news/2012/12-163.cfm
    and
    http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2012/10/12/us_bishops_respond_to_inaccurate_claims/en1-629414

  21. John Feeney says:

    Joe “The Smirk” Biden stated that he agrees that life begins at conception. Therefore, because life begins at conception, killing a baby in the womb is murder. Biden is a advocate for abortion. Therefore, Biden is an accomplice in millions of murders!

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Yes John you are right on! I was so angry at his hypocracy, at least Ryan was honest as he could be but Biden is a liar and a crook trying to come of as a saint, a good Catholic….WITH RYAN YOU GOT THE REAL HIM not what he wants you all to believe! Not a false notion!

      I find a man like Biden is far more dangerous than a man like Ryan type, Ryan is much easier to convert to a totality in the life cause but a Biden is not because his administration has shown us what they are capable of!

    • Oh, Joe “the Smirk” Biden; and all this while I thought it was Joe “the Schmuck” Biden. Hey, how bouts, “Joe the Smirkin’ Schmuck Biden”?

  22. “With regard to — with regard to abortion, I accept my church’s position on abortion as a — what we call a (inaudible) doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church’s judgment. I accept it in my personal life.”

    Read that statement of Biden’s carefully and any well-formed Catholic can reasonably conclude that Biden is not, as he claims, a “practicing” Catholic. Rather, it seem obvious that he’s a pretend Catholic.

    By the way, what is shown in the transcript as “(inaudible)” was, in fact, very audible: Biden said “de fide,” though he mumbled it, probably because he wasn’t sure of the correct pronunciation, and more likely because he was afraid the moderator might ask him to explain that.

  23. Joe’s Bishop is lacks in NOT publically announcing that Joe and other Catholic politicians like him have excommunicated themselves from the Church. Nothing short of that sends the message to his flock that Joe is an okay Catholic. The Bishop is responsible for the condition of Joe’s soul and for the scandal and confusion Joe brings to the Church all across the nation.

  24. Maryanne Leonard says:

    It is my opinion that Paul Ryan knows the teachings of the Catholic Church on the subject of abortion at least as well as any of us and is most likely in full accord with all of them. However, as he is not the one dictating the policies of the platform, we are well served that the future Romney administration walks with us more closely in our journey to stand up for innocent lives than does Obama, who seems to celebrate abortion as a wonderful thing for his daughters to undertake and well as a practice worthy of exporting to the women and their soon-to-be-dead babies in neighboring Mexico, using American taxpayer dollars to do so. We have only two choices for president, and one is clearly superior to the other by a staggering margin. Romney/Ryan deserve our support, and Ryan our respect, for taking such a position and remaining electable. An achievement in itself!

    • Abeca Christian says:

      God bless you Maryanne….thank you for your support….I appreciate this tone you just set before us with this post…I think you get it because you can surely see what a monster Obama administration is and if we continue to feed it….we will be it’s lunch and dinner too….God have mercy.

      Thank you kind Ms….you just gave me a shed of hope….perhaps more will get it and we can finally fire Obama. Whatever comes after, if we get that blessing, we will deal with…one day at a time but for now…first thing is first, Obama can not win again.

      • Maryanne Leonard says:

        Thank you for your blessing, Abeca, and you are blessing for our preborn children yourself, Abeca. You and I agree on so many ways of seeing things and always in agreement when it comes to realizing it is to the benefit of our own souls as well as to the world when we follow the teachings of our Holy Mother Church and, to the best of our ability to understand and follow, the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ himself. He did say, “Suffer the little children to come unto me,” and I think that memorable message applies to us in suffering ALL the little children God sends us to come unto us as well.

  25. Biden is a bonfied heretic. Ryan for his part fell short of his pro-life record. The teaching of the church is being trampled upon. Card Dolan is more concerned with politics and power than he is about the truth of our faith. Lip service and dinner jokes won’t get it done my friend . Hob knobbing with Libs is not going to change the facts.

    • So, Marcum, how would you view Ryan … if … his position were the same but if he was not a Catholic and never attended a church?

  26. With all the condemnation of both candidates on this site, it seems to me that one take on the debate has not been adressed. Regardless of how one feels about the issue, and it is pretty one-sided on this site, which is good, the debate illustrated not just how these two men approach the subject of abortion, but represent to a large degree the 50/50 split in the country and in the pews. The bishops are united in their condemnation of abortion. But the pews are filled with people who don’t always agree. This is a cultural issue that the church has not overcome. While everyone on this site, thank God, rallies for overthrowing Roe v. Wade, there is a big divide among the general population. Because there is this huge divide, a large number of Catholics (60% in one poll I saw) will vote their cultural values rather than the admonitions of the Bishops. There is a big hill to climb here, and messages of despair will not overcome the culture before the election. It would seem that prayer may be the most powerful thing we can bring to the issue!

    • False, Bob One, not true what you claim that all the bishops are opposed to abortion. Most of them pushed the Abortionist in Chief four years ago. If that is being against abortion, Bobbo ne” then you’re really bobblin’ it.

  27. Innominato says:

    “Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, I love you very much; I beg you to spare the live of the unborn child whom I have spiritually adopted and who is in danger of being aborted.”

    I am amazed at how many of you professional bloggers are willing to kill the unborn conceived in rape and incest, etc. When you meet them in heaven, will you tell them that you voted to kill them?

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Innominato,

      In case you don’t know it, being willing and able to make choices between a GREAT EVIL and a lesser, much lesser supposed evil, is not the same as being willing to kill the unborn conceived in rape and incest, etc!

      An adult sometimes has to make decisions that apparently you are not willing to make.

      We are dealing with an imperfect world, and you are apparently willing to throw someone under the bus because he may or may not meet your expectations!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Innominato oh how wrong you are. Professional bloggers? Hey I have never been called that before…interesting.

        Innominato you just killed many unborn babies by either not voting or by your comments because you just gave Obama more votes….see how your logic comes across? You must not get it…..your words have not stopped a baby from the slaughter house, it only increased it.

        So stop adding scrupulous indications to what you perceive to be our actions! We don’t need to go backwards by adding 4 more years to Obama campaign!

  28. Maryanne Leonard says:

    Innominato, good for you. Each one of us should be spiritually adopting a developing child in the womb who is in danger of being aborted and we should pray for that child as if we were saving a saint.

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