San Jose diocese won’t send seminarians to St. Patrick’s anymore

Bishop Patrick McGrath says seminarians will instead be sent to the University of Saint Mary of the Lake Mundelein Seminary of the Archdiocese of Chicago

The front of St. Patrick’s Seminary (Courtesy of Catholic San Francisco)

In a brief letter to priests of the San Jose diocese dated Feb. 10, Bishop Patrick McGrath announced that he had “decided to transfer current seminarians and send our future seminarians to the University of Saint Mary of the Lake Mundelein Seminary of the Archdiocese of Chicago.”

The letter does not mention St. Patrick’s Seminary and University in Menlo Park, about a half-hour drive from San Jose, but it describes where the 11 San Jose seminarians currently enrolled there — and future ones — will study after the end of the current academic year, marked by graduation May 17.

The San Jose diocese’s exit from St. Patrick’s comes less than four months after the Society of the Priests of St. Sulpice’s surprise announcement that it would be severing its 118-year relationship with the seminary, effective June 30.

Archbishop Blase J. Cupich, the chancellor of University of St. Mary of the Lake Seminary in Mundelein, pictured here with Mundelein seminarians. (image from university website)

Known as Sulpicians, the international community of diocesan priests had co-founded the seminary with the San Francisco archdiocese in 1898 and administered and helped staff it since then. The San Francisco archdiocese owns the facility and its expansive grounds.

The letter’s timing left a weekend between the announcement and the Feb. 13 annual campus gathering of bishops and vocations directors from dioceses which place students at St. Patrick’s.

Asked if McGrath and San Jose vocations director Fr. Joseph Kim would be attending the Feb. 13 meeting, a diocesan spokesman said, “They always do.” He said the timing was “just coincidental.”

“The departure of the Sulpicians was one of the factors that the commission considered in making its recommendation to the bishop,” he said, but noted, “The report is a confidential document.” The San Jose move “should not be seen as a reflection upon the quality of seminary leadership or administration,” he added.

According to St. Patrick’s website, eight California dioceses plus the San Francisco archdiocese sponsor students at St. Patrick’s, as do the dioceses of Honolulu and Reno.

Only the San Francisco archdiocese has as many students at St. Patrick’s as San Jose.

Leadership after the Sulpicians

In the Oct. 21 notice that the Sulpicians would be leaving St. Patrick’s, Kemper said the society had “recently been informed that we are no longer invited to provide Sulpician administrative leadership to St. Patrick’s. As a consequence, we will not be able to serve the seminary according to the Sulpician tradition.”

Bishop Thomas Anthony Daly

Tension between the Sulpicians and the archdiocese over St. Patrick’s administration is not new. In September 2013, Cordileone, then-San Jose Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Daly and then-archdiocesan vicar for administration Fr. James Tarantino met with then-President-Rector Sulpician Fr. James McKearney, leaving McKearney no option but to resign, according to McKearney at the time.

McKearney’s termination caught many off guard. Neither the U.S. Sulpician provincialate nor the St. Patrick’s board of trustees had been consulted.

Daly was named interim president-rector. Five months later, Stevens assumed the position. Daly was appointed bishop of the Spokane, Wash., diocese in March 2015.

Daly now heads a search committee to find a new leader for St. Patrick’s. A St. Patrick’s graduate and trustee, Daly was director of vocations for the San Francisco archdiocese from 2002 to 2011.

“The search for rector is ongoing, and several additional new candidates have recently been added,” Brown said in the email. “We anticipate the position being filled within a month or two.”

As for faculty positions to be vacated by the six Sulpicians currently serving at St. Patrick’s, Brown said, “The Sulpician faculty leaving this summer created three full-time positions available and these positions have all now been filled. An additional two full-time teaching faculty will likely be hired.”

The Sulpicians’ announced departure generated deep concern and conversation in Bay Area Catholic circles. More than 2,000 priests and some 40 bishops were educated by the Society at St. Patrick’ s and its related college seminary, St. Joseph’s, which is now closed.

Seminarians at St. Patrick’s pray the Stations of the Cross.

“They made the decision,” Daly told Catholic San Francisco, the archdiocesan newspaper, at the time of the announced Sulpician complete exit. “There was no discussion with the board of trustees. They had made up their mind” the day before a scheduled trustee meeting and had voted to withdraw. “So there was no collaboration in the decision.”

The Sulpicians’ decision, Daly reportedly said, came as the seminary board of trustees was seeking to negotiate a change in the governance structure to a more “collaborative” model similar to Assumption Seminary in the San Antonio archdiocese where Sulpicians contribute staff.

“There are misconceptions about the program at St Patrick’s Seminary,” Daly told Catholic San Francisco. “Some see it as too conservative. The seminary is a solid program of priestly formation.”

One St. Patrick alumnus, now the pastor of Danville’s St. Isidore Parish in the Oakland diocese, shared his appreciation for the Sulpicians in the Oct. 30, 2016, parish bulletin, praising them for providing “us a vision of Church which was wide and inclusive, not narrow and blinkered.”

In the bulletin message, Fr. Gerard Moran also charged that “the Sulpicians have been on a collision course with Archbishop Cordileone since his appointment to San Francisco.”

Moran criticized what he called Cordileone’s “obsessive compulsive micromanagement” and appealed to previous San Francisco archbishops to “use their influence in Rome to see the Sulpician decision is not irrevocable.”

[Editor’s note: the above article is from the National Catholic Reporter. The publication was firmly condemned under the strictest terms by its local ordinary, Bishop Charles Helmsing, in 1968. In 2013, Bishop Robert Finn stated that the National Catholic Reporter “has taken an editorial stance that puts the publication at odds with the Church,” and asked the publication to remove the word “Catholic” from its name.]



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  1. The DSJ newspaper publishes stories promoting modernist heresies and now the DSJ is sending its seminarians thousands of miles away to a modernist seminary overseen by one of the most modernist cardinal archbishops in the United States when there is a perfectly good seminary only about twenty miles from its territory.

    It doesn’t take a genius to understand what’s going on.

  2. Steve Seitz says:

    It’s clear to me that Archbishop Cordileone is placing the Archdiocese on a firm foundation. It’s the only hope for evangelism in the city. I will pray for him and his work.

    • And pray for those seminarians who will be in Chicago, under the authority of Cardinal Cupich. Those in formation deserve so much better than him!

  3. “The seminary is a solid program of priestly formation.” No, the seminary is now deep in chaos on top of enrollment declining by almost 30% over a ten year period—simply because it’s NOT a solid program of formation. They rent their copious excess space and sleeping quarters to Evangelicals to try to make ends meet. Someone needs to step in ASAP.

  4. St. Christopher says:

    Let’s see, B. McGrath does not much like Catholicism, at least as demanded by its Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Catholic Catechism. Point 2: St. Patrick’s is beginning the long climb out of the modernist gutter. Point 3: Diocese of San Jose wants to send its seminarians to the seminary headed by Cardinal — Mr. Anyone Can Have Communion — Cupich.

    Wow, is everything now in two warring camps. Not since the Civil War has so much national hatred been in evidence. Just think of the added costs involved. Think of the souls threatened by priests schooled by C. Cupich’s seminary, with its Treacle Catholicism. Bishop McGrath should be defrocked. Stop supporting him.

    • SC, your first point needs fine-tuning. Catholicism stems from it’s Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Magisterium (you completely missed that third one), and replaced it with the Catechism. The Magisterium happens to include McGrath and Cupich and Francis and Cordileone, and Burke, and the rest of the bishops.

      • St. Christopher says:

        Sorry, but wrong-headed actions by this or that bishop, or archbishop, or cardinal, are not the works of the “magisterium.” (Check any number of sources, including “A Catholic Dictionary”.) When Cardinal Cupich says that any Catholic can receive communion, or when Cardinal Wuerl rejects using Canon 915 to forbid communion to congressional members who vote for abortion rights and funding to Planned Parenthood, and when priests — there are many — who fawn over homosexual sex as some kind of “gift,” none of these are statements of the magisterium. No obedience is deserved or expected.

        In fact, the foolish demand for “obedience” of faithful Catholics by Zombie-Liberal clerics is surely a mortal sin. Catholics must fight error…

        • The Magisterium, SC, is the teaching office of the Holy Father and the bishops united to him. This is Catholicism 101. Even your trusty Catholic Dictionary will tell you the same.

          • St. Christopher says:

            Wrong, again, “jon.” As everywhere noted, statements of individual priests, bishops and the like have nothing to do with the magisterium.

            And, it is never correct to follow anything that it heretical, or that may lead to sin, wherever says it, even the Pope.

          • Ann Malley says:

            ….and the trusty Catechism will also show you to beware a “religious” solution that requires apostasy from the truth. CCC 675.

          • Sorry AM and SC, but the Pope and the bishops remain the Magisterium, regardless of your personal disagreements with how they exercise their ministry. AM, they have not apostasized from the truth, and you yourself time and again have failed to substantiate your allegations here. And SC, Catechism nos. 85 and 86 confirm that the Magisterium is the teaching office of the pope and the bishops. Listen to the living Magisterium!

  5. from what i have seen, seminaries have often served as a campus of the ‘church of the future’, as some would have it, for those priests who were too liberal for parishes. they could safely run their seminary parish as the model of what they wanted to se as they waited for the ‘old model parish’ to die off. some of those priests waiting for the ‘better sheep’ to appear were shocked when they found a whole new group of seminarians who had tradition in their blood. the ‘die off’ theory failed them as they watched the result of the Holy Spirit calling forth the church of true tradition despite their attempts to…

  6. anonymous Anselm says:

    Cupich also needs new seminarians at his seminary (Mundelein), because since Card. George passed away, they have dropped in enrollment; in fact, the word from direct contacts there is that Mundelein is emptying out under his bizarre New Church leadership and staff.

  7. Thomas Edward Miles, as usual, wrong about facts, makes a false claim in a Facebook statement that former Bp. Robert Finn of Kansas City is “a convicted felon.”

    Finn was convicted of a misdemeanor for a child endangerment charge for failure to timely report a priest whose computer was reported for having child pornography on his computer. Finn did send him for psychiatric evaluation and removed him from contact with children, but did not know the law required immediate reporting of the behavior, believing the priest had confidentiality due him in the bishop-priest manifestation-of-conscience relationship. He was wrong, and paid the price.

    And Bp. Stephen Blaire of Stockton, who knew of Mahony’s cover-ups in Stockton…

    • …what of that? Answer: Nothing. Blaire is a progressive icon. Finn was the opposite.

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Everyone in any kind of position gets a briefing on mandatory reporting laws. Even if Miles misstated the level of the Bishop’s convictions, that is no excuse for a person – especially a person in authority – for ignoring the mandatory reporting requirements.

      • The point was made that what Bp. Finn did was wrong and is not excused.

        The point that was avoided was, based on Oliver O’Grady’s testimony, which you can see in a documentary (“Deliver Us From Evil”) and on youtube, Bp. Stephen Blaire knew that Card. Mahony during his years in Stockton (1980-1985) had been advised of O’Grady’s years of continuing abuse of two juvenile brothers—Mahony knew about it, hid it, and Blaire in turn kept silent about it, to protect Mahony. That is a point that I hope the Fellow Catholic will acknowledge.

        That is the point

  8. Under Cardinal George (d. April 2015), Chicago Archdiocese was staging a comeback: vocations at Mundelein were increasing: George’s last 4 years’ ordination totals (Cupich was named in Sept 2014, but the 2015 class was under George’s seminary leadership) were:
    2012 – 14 ordained; 2013 – 10 ordained; 2014 – 12 ordained; 2015 -14 ordained.

    CBS TV Chicago reported (3/21/15,, Cupich then engaged in a “shakeup” esp. of Mundelein seminary—faculty were replaced; seminarians approved under George were encouraged to leave; even the chapel was wreckovated, reflecting Cupich’s preference.

    The results? Next year, 2016 – 6 ordained; this June, 2017, 6 again. The “Blaze” effect. Cupich should take credit for his…

    • Also, in 2014, the last year for which I have accurate numbers, there were 49 actual Chicago archdioceses major- theology students—a good measure of future priest numbers (a 4-year program). (There were 212 total students at the start of 2016, but that is from several other dioceses.)

      In 2016, a year for which “Blaze” Cupich can take full credit, after his 2015 Mundelein “shake-up”, he has 37 total major-theology students.

      A contact I have “on the ground” has said that Card. George-type traditionally-inclined vocations have been exiting Mundelein and the diocese rapidly the last 2 years: it is not hard to see why. Cupich is a very strange, cold man, who doesn’t inspire trust. He probably has appealed to fellow…

      • ..progressives, like Paddy McGrath, to “pump up” his numbers, to hide the “Cupich effect”. Note how similar it is to the “Francis effect.” (Bergoglio had the same impact in his 15 years (1998-2013) as head of the Cardinal-Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. Birds of a feather.)

      • Yet, Mundelein Seminary enrollment has remained steady. How do you explain that?

        • Ahhh, “Dave”, Mundelein incorporates several diocese’s candidates–ranging from as close as Joliet, IL, to as far away as San Antonio diocese, not just Chicago. But you didn’t know that.

          And, ahhh, Dave, Mundelein has to “recruit” dioceses—let’s say, San Jose, a new patsy diocese—to keep the numbers up.

          Got it Dave?

          • Folks, being more on the right side of Cupich and more traditional (and certainly not a cheerleader of his), I say nonetheless that you can’t rely on a one-sided interpretation of things like O Campion’s. For example, Cupich has suspended the Casa Jesus program in which the Archdiocese recruited men from Latin America in order to study for the priesthood, with a similar program for men from Poland. Folks like me-and I am sure many here as well–who would like to see more home-grown vocations should applaud Cupich for quietly ending this program. But Campion simply missed this in favor of his predictable negative narrative and his high-handed condemnation. Any analysis of a “dip” in Chicago’s seminary enrollment without mentioning…

          • the suspension of this program is pitiful. Pitiful.

            Plus, as for Campion’s contention that the Archbishop is “a very strange, cold man”, well, this is contradicted by the comments of the Superintendent (no less) of Chicago’s Catholic schools which had had to close quite a number of schools since Cupich arrived. Yet, he said of the Archbishop: “He is not somebody that sort of officiates from an ivory tower…He is willing to go into the schools and go hand and hand with the people.” Check it out from the Nov. 18, 2016 issue of the Chicago Tribune. The point here folks is that oftentimes one has to take the words of some of these detractors with a pinch, nay, a handful, of salt.

          • St. Christopher says:

            “jon,” Cardinal Cupich is likely a heretic. He teaches a growing number of things that are completely at odds with Catholic doctrine (such as giving communion to open adulterers). Pope Francis adores this kind of man, but, unfortunately, C. Cupich embraces the Zombie-Liberal Canon with gusto. Nothing in the Catholic Church is worth much except after Vatican II and then only if it serves to undermine “rigid doctrine,” that sort of thing.

            Time to stand up against such “shepherds”. Stop giving them money. C. Cupich and the Vatican think that Catholics are stupid and will be led into serious error by advancing ambiguity, such as in Ch. 8 of Amoris Laetitia. Reject them.

          • anonymous Anselm says:

            Cupich closed down Casa Jesus and the Polish seminarian program because all their candidates we’re traditional Catholic belief-types. Result? Cut number of ordinations in half.

            He is as Protestant-Catholic as they come.
            Just like his defenders.

          • Anselm is wrong. If you look at the record of this Casa Jesus over 30 years, out of the 230 men who had attended the program, only 53 have been ordained. And they were paying roughly $30,000 per student. Not a good record. Plus, if you look at a report from Chicago’s NBC-5 from Sept. 2016, there were many problems concerning the lack of the virtue of chastity that was rampant among the participants of this program. Now, you claim that these these men were espousing “traditional Catholic belief-types”? Yeah, right. Anselm, you clearly do not know whereof you speak.

          • Fake news by jon: unless you are going to believe ex-seminarian “Luis Stalin ” (What’s in a name? “Stalin” admitted going to gay bars with 2 other seminarians. That would be laudatory in many places. Just means he should have joined the Jesuits.)

            Many good priests came through Casa Jesus, even jon admitting it gave Chicago over 50 priests. Gone now, though.

          • anonymous Anselm says:

            “jon”, an instant expert on everything (now on Chicago Archdiocese) is the one who doesn’t know what he is talking about :

            Casa Jesus, as well as the Polish seminary candidate program, produced many good priestly candidates for years. The testimonies could be found annually on and other diocese-linked sites: he didn’t know that.

            Cupich wanted them closed, not reformed (as in the case of the Casa), because the candidates were not moldable into him. Cupich wants his “own” modern Weakland -Bernardin style “church.”

          • anonymous Anselm says:

            As for the moral lapses of some at Casa Jesus, it could have been reformed with leadership. If there was the desire.

            But it is much more telling about jon and his obvious tediously superior moral perch to readily judge others’ lapses.

            We suppose we will find out the truth of his supposedly superior moral character on Judgment Day. For now, we must be amazed at that feigned superior perch.

          • Anselm, aka O Campion: Face the music. The Archbishop of Chicago is within his rights to suspend whatever program in his jurisdiction, and given this report from a participant himself of the program (who was willing to back up his story by putting his face out there), it was prudent for the Archbishop to do so. You say, “It could have been reformed.” WOW. Why continue spending money on a broken program that is not even ordaining even half of the men it is recruiting, men who according to this report are already causing scandal even before they are ordained! Your contention is irresponsible. How are you going to explain your point that “Cupich closed down Casa Jesus and the Polish seminarian program because all their…

          • candidates we’re traditional Catholic belief-types” in light of this story?

            My original point to O Campion/O Anselm stands: one needs to always read his comments with a handful of salt.

          • Lastly O Anselm/anonymous Campion: I provided substantiation for my point/claimt that Campion totally overlooked this Casa Jesus program in his unjust diatribe against Cupich and I provided proof of the program’s inadequacy (thanks to NBC). Where is your substantiation to your point that Cupich closed this program the “candidates were not moldable into [Cupich]. Cupich wants his ‘own’modern Weakland -Bernardin style ‘church.” You are making a claim there, so prove it!

          • anonymous Anselm says:

            Sorry, Jon is getting Campion inside his brain “rent-free”, sounds like paranoia to me.

            Campion has his own ideas and I have mine. Campion also has more brains than me because he knows if you try to reason with a lunstic, pretty soon people get you confused with jon.

  9. Meanwhile, Jesus wept…

  10. Interesting that the Board of Trustees replaced the President with a Jesuit.

  11. God is really testing my desire to go to seminary. This has thrown me into complete doubt where as previously I was willing to go to St. Patrick’s after finishing my bachelor’s at a state university.

    • anonymous Anselm says:

      Look at the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, or yhe Institute if Christ the King.

      The added advantage of an order is that you won’t be “parked” for years under an insane leadership like that of Cupich or McGrath.

    • Anon, the most important thing for a man considering the priesthood is choosing a good diocese. In California, that means choosing from among the least evil since corruption fills all of our dioceses. If you have the backing of a good vocation director, you can get past the corruption of a seminary. Lots of good resources are available outside the classroom. In my era, that meant spending hours in the seminary library studying Patristic, Scholastic, and dogmatic books that had gathered dust on the shelves. Nowadays those books are presumably still there, along with the Catholic internet.

    • TheVeiledThreat says:


      If you are interested in Tradition I can tell you that at least three current seminarians at St. Patrick’s are interested in learning the TLM. They are not being discouraged.

      The appointment of Fr. Schultze as rector is a step in the right direction. He’s one of the good Jesuits.

      • anonymous Anselm says:

        That is good news, VT: and of course the reason behind McGrath (who hates the traditional Mass) pulling his (very few) theology students out is that St. Pat’s is relatively traditional, and Cupich’s Mundelein is predictably radical-Bergoglio.

        But of course, VT, what happens when Cordileone leaves office, and another Niederauer—or perhaps by then, Fr. “jon” Pedigo—- is made bishop (you know they are grooming him, and he is quite furiously grooming himself)? Alas.

    • Ann Malley says:

      …there’s also the SSPX seminary.

      • anonymous Anselm says:

        If they have room, AM! 😉

        With 57 candidates taking the cassock this past fall, their numbers far exceed all 3 Bay Area dioceses’ first-year class totals.

        Fear and trembling in San Jose Diocese.

        • Right. Why go to a seminary to become a priest that has no legal and no legitimate ministry in the Catholic Church. This is not a responsible advise given to a young man discerning a vocation. Currently the SSPX have NO legitimate ministry in God’s Church! It may change if the beloved SSPX were to accept the Second Vatican Council. The sacraments offered by the beloved SSPX (save the sacrament of reconciliation and you have Pope Francis to thank for that) are all illicit and UNLAWFUL! This is irresponsible advice that AM is giving. IRRESPONSIBLE!

          • anonymous Anselm says:

            I told you, AM, fear and trembling and now, paranoia, in San Jose diocese.

          • St. Christopher says:

            Actually, “jon,” from all public accounts, the SSPX need not accept much about Vatican II as most of what resulted from it is not doctrinal, but pastoral (a nonsense distinction). The Pope only has to sign the papers, it is reported, to create a personal prelature for the SSPX. Then, the good and the great from Abp. Lefebvre will be accepted “as they are.”

  12. Here are the real facts about how the shrinking US Novus Ordo Church is propping itself up, a prime example being once-proud Mundelein Seminary.

    In 2010, enrollment in the major seminary had dropped to 165 students, from 25 dioceses.

    So, Mundelein officials recruited new dioceses (like San Jose) in 2014: result 210 candidates, from 34 dioceses.

    In 2016, the official Data Composite Report for Chicago Arch states there are 200 candidates from 40 dioceses.

    Note the adding of patsy dioceses, like San Jose, to pump up Cupich’s shrinking numbers.

    • All this data is readily available, even if you aren’t a former Chicagoan, and you can find out the facts, instead of the Novus Ordo “attack-flacks”, they that are remarkably deficient on facts and numbers.

      But the most telling #’s are those ordained: every year from 2010-2015 (2015 being the transition year to Cupich):
      2010: 11 ordained; 2011 : 14 ordained; 2012: 10 ordained; 2013: 12 ordained; 2014: 14 ordained; 2015, 14 ordained.

      Cupich’s first two full years in charge of the seminary, after his 2015 wreckovation?:

      2016 – 6 ordained; 2017 will have 6 ordained.

      Cupich has successfully halved the numbers Cardinal George, a stout and beloved adherent of the traditional Catholic Faith, brought in. And yes, those…

      • ..orthodox Catholic candidates who are departing will tell you that Cupich is cold, distant, a progressive ideologue, and he doesn’t have their backs.

        Where are they going? To more dioceses with orthodox BXVI-type prelates or to traditional orders, the few that remain.

  13. And Cupich, like P Francis’ tenure in Rio Archdiocese, had a prior history of emptying out the seminary when he was at Spokane (June 2010-Sept 2014).

    No doubt, many will point to his ordaining 5 priests his last year in 2014—but he ordained none in 2012 and 2013. During his time at Spokane, Bishop White Seminary (the official diocese seminary) dropped from 17 total candidates in 2011 to fewer than 6 candidates by 2014.

    Anyone who wants to check Cupich’s record of relations with candidates to the priesthood while in Spokane, they will find from Spokane Catholic writers that one of the well-known objections to Cupich was “failure to support his…

    • ..seminarians.” That is reflected clearly in the decline in numbers for priesthood.

      And so what happened? Cupich was elevated to the Cardinal-Archdiocese of Chicago.

      And why? Always reward failure and incompetency in the Novus Ordo Church.

      • A couple of things need correcting in Campion’s post. There is NO SUCH THING as a “Novus Ordo Church”. There is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, and that Church is presided over by the Holy Father and the Catholic bishops united to him. Only those who belong to these “independent” chapels and to your beloved SSPX peddle this “Novus Ordo Church” vs. “true Church” mentality which is of the Devil. The Devil loves division: that’s what “daemon” in Greek means after all: to divide.

        Secondly, regardless of these numbers, the Holy Father already burst the bubble of those who would compare the “dip” in diocesan vocations versus the “blooming” of trad vocations (this from the Feb. 9 article from…

        • from CalCathDaily): “When they tell me that there is a congregation that draws so many vocations, I must confess that I worry…. Spirit does not follow the logic of human success…..Don’t put your hope in the sudden, mass blooming of these institutes….Instead, try the humble path of Jesus, that of evangelical witness….the Church does not grow by proselytism but by attraction.” Campion still hasn’t provided an adequate rebuttal to the Holy Father’s words there.

          • Typical “jon”—he couldn’t answer Campion’s fact stream about Cupich’s toxic leadership —so, “subject change”!

            Whenever jonnie gets pasted on facts and substance he quickly changes the subject.

          • Ann Malley says:

            The fruits speak for themselves, jon. So, go forth and keep declaring, “There is no such thing as a Novus Ordo Church,” and reality will call you out as having a darkened understanding. Recourse to your beloved SSPX scapegoat is the sure sign that you’re aware of your shortfall when it comes to teasing out reality from wishful fiction.

            Only those who peddle in sophistry and the fifth columnist activity of gutting meaning from words in order to foment change from the inside deal in empty rhetoric and false obedience.

            So, you may want to cut out proselytizing your novel interpretation on Catholic Faith and Morals. Nobody is buying it, jon. Despite your rigorous scapegoating and misdirection. The only thing the Holy Father is…

        • Ann Malley says:

          . bursting is the remaining shreds of his own credibility. You’ve been long since busted in that regard ;^)

          “…The Devil loves division: that’s what “daemon” in Greek means after all: to divide.”

          Yes, indeed. That is why the Devil is actively using those with collars to divide the flock from the Truth. Time for you to pray for the fidelity of priests and religious to the Truth which will set them free. This false promulgation of a “religious solution” is not helping them. Judas ended badly, remember?

          • Sorry AMalley, but your point is still illogical and heretical: regardless of your feelings about Amores Laetitia, this is still one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church: not a “novus Ordo Church” or anything of the sort! I find it distasteful that the agents of the beloved SSPX and of these “independent chapels” are using the Holy Father’s magnanimous pastorship, his calling for those who are in the margins of the Church, and indeed his writing style (which is not as precise as the Germanic Benedict) to foment division. Francis himself had written in Amoris that he doesn’t wish to change the doctrines of the Church.

  14. Mundelein is a much better seminary. Bishop Barron did an excellent job of improving the formation program when he was rector there.

    • Jorge out of touch with the facts—Cupich re-engineered Mundelein in a big shake-up in 2015, even while Barron was still rector. A good way to get Barron out of the way was his promo to LA (July, 2015)

  15. I’ve met some seminarians at St. Patrick’s and they’re good faithful men. Part of my reasons for wanting to go to seminary was because I love St. Patrick’s. The morning mass there feels very holy and the communal prayers are invigorating. Everyone I spoke to was completely orthodox in the faith as far as I could tell. Being from San Jose, it is also very close to home which is a massive plus.

    While I haven’t committed to anything yet, I feel like God is pulling me towards the seminary at least for some time, if not the priesthood. I told myself that I’d give it until my bachelor’s degree, and if God hasn’t pulled me down a different path, that I’d go to seminary and give it my all in an attempt to discern if God really wants…

    • Anon, now that they will have a good rector, I say that if God wants you to be a priest, St. Pat’s will be a great choice! There are many good bishops in CA. Someone here mentioned a couple of these traditionalist communities: now, be aware that their priests do not offer the Ordinary Form. I say be more generous by ministering to the majority of Catholics who go to the OF. Choose the diocesan priesthood. You can learn the EF in seminary or after ordination—and then offer the Mass of the ages after ordination.

      • The problem is that I’m in San Jose 🙁

      • St. Christopher says:

        Sorry, “jon,” there are few, very few, “good bishops in CA.” Your State (and my ex-State) celebrates banality in the expression of the Faith (at the very best). Few bishops even venture as far as attacked Abp. Cordileone did in insisting that teachers and employees of Catholic schools act in a way consistent with Catholic values in their off hours. CA bishops (some exceptions) are craven, feminized, corporate priests, with little sense of the Church’s sole mission — to lead people to salvation. Instead, they are busy brown-nosing the next guy up, and trying to bash Tradition as being “divisive.” Not many TLMs are regularly said in the Golden State.

        • These allegations you spew here SC need substantiation because you are making a claim here. Prove, give specific instances, cite sources, not fake news.

    • This was meant to be a reply to “TheVeiledThreat”.

    • Anon, all we can do is pray for you. I am glad that you are orthodox and faithful. May our Lady, Queen of the Clergy and Help of Christians aid you in your search for your vocation. I second the commentor who chastised the person who tried to tempt you to an order outside of the Church. So not helpful.

  16. Fascinating it is those who are proponents of the Novus Ordo Mass, even claiming its outstanding virtue is its “continuous change”, hate being distinguished by the very same N.O. liturgy. “Don’t call us ‘Novus Ordo!'”

    Yet that is exactly what the Consilium commission of V2 titled the New Liturgy after its official announcement Apr 3, 1969 (Missale Romanum). You cant easily find references to the commission’s title (“Novus Ordo Missae”) at—because they have been mostly scrubbed clean. But, Lex orandi, lex credendi. A new law of belief becomes defined by a new way of praying.

    Thus, the great moral upheaval in the Church in the past 50 years—divorce & re-marriage, acceptance of active homosexual…

    • ..practice, and now a new moral imperative, “Saving the Earth!”

      Yet Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8). His true teaching does not change: his liturgy does not change because it is worship “in spirit and in truth”. (Jn 4:24). Truth does not change, God does not change, and His liturgy reflects those elements.

      There are many good people in the N.O., and many good priests, many who we are each fortunate to know well. Like the Orthodox and Eastern Rite with respect to marriage of clergy, the sincere N.O. Catholic “tolerates” the N.O. What else can you do with a defective element that has invaded the Church?

      • Campion is wrong. It was Ottavianni and Bacci who first used the phrase “nous order.” The Council just called it the “normative Mass–check your favorite reference, Wikipedia.

        Again, there is no such thing as a “Novus Ordo Church” or “Novus Ordo Catholic”. Only those who belong to the beloved SSPX and the independent chapels it has spawned peddle is divide in the Church. There is only ONE Church, ONE rite (with two forms: the Ordinary and the Extraordinary).

  17. Anon,
    Praying for you! Remember when God calls you to a Vocation, he calls you to a vocation w/in the Vocation too & gives you all the tools needed to do it. If God is calling you to San Jose, the tools he gives you to answer his call are the same tools that will help you lead people to faithfulness (& also means you are an essential part of His plan there). Like FrMichael said, backing of a good Vocation Director makes a big difference. I encourage you to go beyond the forums & talk to the VD & seminarians in San Jose to see if you have support. It may even be Mundelein isn’t what you (or others here) expect -when we base our judgments solely on the outside looking in, we can miss what Jesus is doing on the ground, or even inside hearts.

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