Mass restrictions only for the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate

Cardinal Burke with Franciscans in Rome, December, 2012

Cardinal Burke with Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate in Rome, December, 2012

The following comes from a July 30 story on the Catholic News Agency website.

The Vatican Congregation for Religious, with the approval of Pope Francis, has appointed a commissioner to oversee the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate and has restricted their celebration of the traditional Latin Mass, touching off a storm of speculation about the reasons and broader implications.

The news of the decree was first reported by the veteran Vatican journalist Sandro Magister, who described the move as the first time that Pope Francis has contradicted his predecessor Benedict XVI.

“But what is most astonishing are the last five lines of the decree of July 11,” writes Magister.

The declaration’s final paragraph reads:

“In addition to the above, the Holy Father Francis has directed that every religious of the congregation of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate is required to celebrate the liturgy according to the ordinary rite and that, if the occasion should arise, the use of the extraordinary form (Vetus Ordo) must be explicitly authorized by the competent authorities, for every religious and/or community that makes the request.”

“The astonishment stems from the fact that what is decreed contradicts the dispositions given by Benedict XVI, which for the celebration of the Mass in the ancient rite ‘sine populo’ demand no previous request for authorization whatsoever,” Magister explains.

The decree was signed by the Vatican congregation’s prefect, Cardinal Joao Braz de Viz, and its secretary, Archbishop José Rodrìguez Carballo. Capuchin Father Fidenzio Volpi was named in the declaration as the commissioner and he will be required to submit a written report every six months to the Vatican dicastery.

The reaction in the Catholic traditionalist blogosphere to the decree has been strong.

The blog Rorate Caeli, which focuses on the sacred liturgy, said in a four-point response that referenced Benedict XVI’s Summorum Pontificum, the papal document that allowed the pre-1962 Mass in Latin to be celebrated widely, that the new decree will impact one of the largest religious communities that celebrates the traditional Latin Mass.

“One justification now being raised,” the July 29 post says, “is that the FFI’s application of Summorum Pontificum had caused discord in many communities and that the Traditional Latin Mass was ‘imposed’ brutally on priests who did not want it. On the contrary, we in Rorate, who have been closely observing the FFI since 2008, can affirm that the opposite is the case: Summorum was applied in a very gradual manner … .”

But the spokesman for the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, Father Alfonso Bruno, told CNA July 29 that “more than 80 percent of the friars appreciate the intervention of the Church.”

In his estimation, the “problem is not the Holy Mass usus antiquior,” which he described as “only the tip of the iceberg.”

Fr. Bruno pointed to a “small group in power” within the religious congregation that is being influenced by Mother Francesca Perillo, who is “very close” with Lefebvrist groups. He is worried that Mother Perillo, who is in charge of those sisters who live in hermitages, and her followers could fall into “heresy and disobedience.”

Mother Perillo could not be reached for comment before publication time.

Father Angelo M. Geiger, who is the General Delegate of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate in the United States, said in a July 29 post on his Mary Victrix blog that Magister’s piece “is an unfortunate instance of an overeager journalist sensationalizing something he can only speculate about.”

“The restrictions on our community are specific to us and have been put in place for reasons specific to us,” Fr. Geiger remarked….

To read entire story, click here.

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  1. Of course it contradicts our Holy Father Pope Benedict the XVI, stunning to say the least, like I have been stating in this great web site it will drive more people to the S.S.P.X. Certain “priest bloggers” keep saying “brick by brick” and reading Francis through Benedict this priest is not quite with it! I understand he would like to be obediant but come on just state the facts Francis just kicked our wonderful Holy Father Benedict in the gut. We all knew this was coming our way just not at warp speed and who will be next? The F.S.S.P. or The Institute of Christ the King, oh how I wish Cardinal Burke or Cardinal Ranjith were elected to the seat of Peter. A sad sad time indeed for The FFI and our beloved TLM. Pray that Francis softens his heart towards the poor Franciscans of The Immaculate and restores The Mass of All Times to this growing order!!!

    • Pope Francis can overturn Summorum Pontificum with a stroke of the pen. For many of us the Traditional Latin Mass is central to our lives and we are very afraid of future suppression.

      • Anonymous says:

        This is exactly what many warned us about with the so called “Indults”, and now it is coming true! What THEY think they can grant, they also know they can take away!

        May God have mercy on His Church and those who are supposed to protect it!

        Viva Cristo Rey!

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

        • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

          I wrote the above, and I am not “Annonymous”! I consider those who use anonymous to be mostly cowards.

          God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
          Kenneth M. Fisher

      • So, if that happens, there are valid sacraments in the Orthodox Churches and the SSPX.

        • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

          Skai,

          I came to the conclusion of the PERPETUAL validity of the Tridentine Mass way before those indults. Change the “d” to an “s” in indults and you get insults.

          I began to wonder why priests who were supposed to have been joyful on their ordination days were so hateful toward the Mass they were ordained to celebrate. The conclusion I came to was not beneficial to the Novus Ordo movement!

          God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
          Kenneth M. Fisher

    • Historian Roberto De Mattei has interesting comments on this:

      http://chiesaepostconcilio.blogspot.it/2013/07/francesco-contraddice-benedetto-su-un.html

  2. Dave N. says:

    If “a commissioner to oversee the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate” has been appointed that’s a good indication that Pope Francis thinks there are serious problems and scandal within this community that he wants to nip in the bud. (Contrast this with prior INaction and foot dragging in the case of the Legionnaires and the host of problems that resulted and continue to plague the Church, or in LCWR for that matter.) I think suspension of TLM is incidental to other problems, although it does play a role in the controversy. One can read about the problems of the FFI elsewhere on the Internet.

    • How could anyone connect the TLM to any other kind of problem ? Speculation means nothing, the fact is he has restricted the TLM, that’s the serious problem.

    • Historical level problem, in that without the Pope immediately cracking down on it, the global abortion and sodomy agendas would accelerate.

  3. THE POPE IS CRACKING DOWN…
    CWN – July 31, 2013 – Pope Francis has accepted the resignations of both of Slovenia’s archbishops, who had amassed huge debts for their archdioceses with questionable investments.
    Archbishop Anton Stres of Ljubljana, the nation’s capital, is 70. Archbishop Marjan Turnsek of Maribor is 58. Archbishop Franc Kramberger, the previous head of the Maribor archdiocese, had resigned in 2011, also because of financial problems.
    In a statement posted on Ljubljana’s archdiocesan website, Archbishop Stres said that “the financial collapse of companies associated with the Archdiocese of Maribor has cast its shadow for more than two years” and has compromised the Church’s mission. The archdiocese had invested heavily in firms that are now bankrupt.
    Archbishop Stres, a former Maribor auxiliary bishop and coadjutor archbishop, added that Pope Francis asked him to resign.
    In 2011, L’Espresso reported that the Maribor archdiocese had accumulated $1 billion in debt through speculative investments and that the debt had led a television station in which the archdiocese had invested to broadcast pornography in the hope of attracting more viewers.
    The financial problems date back to 2003, the Vatican Insider reports, and all of the bishops who have resigned were involved in planning the speculative investments.

    • Bishops investing … what about the parable told by Jesus about the rich farmer who had a bumper crop, and decided to build an extra barn to store it in, instead of distributing the grain? That farmer bought the farm that very night. Of course how could there be any moral or lesson to this parable of the Lord; otherwise the bishops would be talking about it instead of ignoring it?

      • This is from Pope Francis’s homily to the Bishops & Seminarians before his trip to Rio..”.To be called by Jesus, to be called to evangelize, and third: to be Called to promote the culture of encounter – In many places, generally speaking, due to the economic humanism that has been imposed in the world, the culture of exclusion, of rejection, is spreading. There is no place for the elderly or for the unwanted child; there is no time for that poor person in the street. At times, it seems that for some people, human relations are regulated by two modern “dogmas”: efficiency and pragmatism. Dear Bishops, priests, religious and you, seminarians who are preparing for ministry: have the courage to go against the tide of this culture. Be courageous! Remember this, which helps me a great deal and on which I meditate frequently: take the First Book of Maccabees, and recall how many of the people wanted to adapt to the culture of the time: “No …! Leave us alone! Let us eat of everything, like the others do… Fine, yes to the Law, but not every part of it …”. And they ended up abandoning the faith and placing themselves in the current of that culture. Have the courage to go against the tide of this culture of efficiency, this culture of waste. Encountering and welcoming everyone, solidarity – a word that is being hidden by this culture, as if it were a bad word – solidarity and fraternity: these are what make our society truly human.”

  4. THE POPE IS CRACKING DOWN…
    Father Z’s Take
    However, Father John Zuhlsdorf, who blogs as “Fr. Z” at What Does the Prayer Really Say?, pointed out that the FFI is not an extraordinary-form community like the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, which recently marked its 25th anniversary.
    He added that Pope Francis was a Jesuit provincial with experience in handling a community’s internal divisions, and he said the decree “probably has more to do with a matter internal to a religious community than it does with the older form of Mass.”
    “Takeovers happen when something is not working,” Father Zuhlsdorf said. However, he added that the decree, for some traditionalist Catholics, will be “a setback for their morale” and that it will hurt other laypeople who depend on the FFIs for their access to the Mass in the extraordinary form.

  5. Anton L Seidl says:

    At first glance, this action is profoundly disappointing, since it represents an unexpected departure from the expressed wishes of our pope emeritus Benedict, who clearly had a predilection for the Latin rite mass. I shall withhold judgment, expecting some kind of explanation for this sudden move against the Franciscan Friars.

    • LOOKING FOR AN EXPLANATION? HERE YA GO:
      “…The spokesman for the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, Father Alfonso Bruno, told CNA July 29 that “more than 80 percent of the friars appreciate the intervention of the Church.”
      In his estimation, the “problem is not the Holy Mass usus antiquior,” which he described as “only the tip of the iceberg.”
      Fr. Bruno pointed to a “small group in power” within the religious congregation that is being influenced by Mother Francesca Perillo, who is “very close” with Lefebvrist groups. He is worried that Mother Perillo, who is in charge of those sisters who live in hermitages, and her followers could fall into “heresy and disobedience.”
      THIS IS WHAT BISHOPS AND POPES SHOULD DO: CLAMP DOWN ON PEOPLE GOING OFF COURSE.

      • People going off course??? Well let’s see what that is, giant puppets, altar girls, lay lectors, dancing girls in leotards, communion in the hand, kiss of peace, hand holding, applause, rock, folk, mariachi, music, drums, guitars, tamborines, polyester vestments, the “people’s table” and the heresy list can go on and on. And you want to CLAMP down on The Mass of All Times the TRUE MASS OF THE HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH????

        • Janek, None of the list of things you mention are in any way heretical. Wow, what a major offense applauding is. Oh yes and drums, wow, drums must be of the devil.

      • Catherine says:

        BTW, Have ANY of these teaching institutions steered”OFF COURSE”? Is ANYONE worried about the many young adults who are being steered “OFF COURSE”? Are there ANY teaching institutions on this list that are not “OFF COURSE? ” If so, which ones? …..There have always been parents who decide to punish the entire household including the very obedient in order to make a point. Yes, it makes certainly makes a point and that point is often an increase of resentment, hurt and division. Only those extremely close to the situation truly know the entire situation. The problem is…. selective disciplines only spotlight the glaring imbalance of charity. If this is supposed to be a welcomed discipline then why isn’t “OFF COURSE” charity beginning at home?

        Georgetown University 1789
        Saint Louis University 1818
        Spring Hill College 1830
        Xavier University 1841
        Fordham University 1841
        College of the Holy Cross 1843
        Saint Joseph’s University 1851
        Santa Clara University 1851
        Loyola College in Maryland 1852
        Boston College
        University of San Francisco 1855
        Canisius College 1870
        Loyola University Chicago 1870
        Saint Peter’s University 1872
        Regis University 1877
        University of Detroit Mercy 1877
        Creighton University 1878
        Marquette University 1881
        John Carroll University 1886
        Gonzaga University 1887
        University of Scranton 1888
        Seattle University 1891
        Rockhurst College 1910
        Loyola Marymount University 1911
        Loyola University, New Orleans 1912
        Fairfield University 1942
        Le Moyne College 1946
        Wheeling Jesuit College 1954

        • Anonymous says:

          202 words and 27 numbers. Your welcome.

        • Pope Francis has stated, at a Mass for the anniversary to St. Ignasius, that he is trained as a Jesuit, follows the spiritual exercises of the Jesuit order, was formed to think like a Jesuit and makes decisions based on the Jesuit tradition. Each of the schools listed above is, to the best of knowledge, a Jesuit school. I wonder if they are forming people/student in the Jesuit tradition that the Pope admires and follows?

    • Anonymous says:

      Anton,

      Don’t hold your breath waiting for a reasonable explanation!

      May God have mercy on His Church, Viva Cristo Rey!

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

  6. Rod McKuen says:

    I’m starting to think of Sandro Magister of Chiesa Express Online as a troublemaker.

  7. Thomas Edward Miles says:

    Good for the Papa, bye-bye far right wing, the party is over! Leo Cardinal Burke will need to find a new way to live in the past!! I alway knew that God is a JESUIT!!!!

    • Thomas Edward Miles, thank you so much for giving us a most humble example of what true tolerance looks like.

      • And don’t forget Christian forbearance and love, Tracy! One can only hope he doesn’t tell anyone he is Catholic…they’d never guess it otherwise.

    • Canisius says:

      NO TEM the TLM will live and you will turn to dust… DESTROY THE LEFT

    • Yes indeed, good bye to these reactionaries that are stuck in the past. They long for the days when little old ladies prayed rosary during Mass and the interaction was between the priest and the altar boys.

  8. Maryanne Leonard says:

    The honeymoon is in jeopardy. For some of my friends, even more conservative than I, the honeymoon was over before it started. Pope Francis is raising both questions and eyebrows, although so much of what he is saying has needed to be said for a long, long time. We can support refreshing views, but I’m afraid most of us are drawing the line at reversing the progress brought to us by Pope Benedict. Where is this going?

    • What I love most about Pope Benedict Emeritus, Maryanne, is his respect and regard for others’ opinions and guidance. He is so wise and gentle and truly humble. We can pretty well be judged by who admires us and who our enemies are. It serves no purpose to cavil, however, and I plan to worship our Lord in His Church and pray that Our Blessed Mother will continue her endless vigil on our behalf. We have Friends in high places, Maryanne. ;o)

      • My latest hypothesis is that the Church resides with the valid Sacraments because that is where unity with God is found, whether the pope is acknowledged or cares, is holy or unholy. Read carefully; doesn’t it say Jesus founded His Church on Peter and that He guarantees the Church? Jesus differentiates between the foundation and the Church. How tight is the assumption that Peter exists in every single pope? Why didn’t Jesus say He guarantees Peter? Did He also say He, Jesus, is the cornerstone of the foundation? How do the spin meisters treat this doctrine? How do the doctors of the Church treat it? What do the ex cathedra proclamations on this actually say? Where do we find these questions and answers in the CCC?

        • Skai, these terms that you use such as guarantees the Church and Peter existing in the Pope are not Catholic phrases. The Pope is the successor of Peter. Catholics believe that a special grace is given to each Pope that prevents them from erring on matters of faith and morals. The Catholic Church has the duty to preserve the faith handed on from the Apostles. You can trust the Church and the Pope.

          • prudance, are being challenged to do something other than regurgitate formulae. Try to prove your formulae. Your “you can trust the Church” … we’re not all “useful idiots”, prudence. Explain how thousands of boys who trusted the Church were raped by clergy and it was covered up by bishops and cardinals. Then go and read St Augustine (a Catholic, in case you did not know that) to see how he puts your sentimental religion up against actual Catholicism.

          • Also, prudence, look up the word “hypothesis” in a Thomist reader and see what you can make of it.

          • Skai, I am sorry that you consider these things to be formulaes. They are statements of faith. It is not a matter of sentiment. Non-Catholics do not understand. You are correct that the sexual abuse of boys, girls, men and women in the church is a betrayal of our trust. Satan has used it to promote heresies and errors like yours. If you are Catholic, please try to rise above your cynicism and doubt no longer, but believe.

    • It is going into the repository of hope for the next pope to actually be holy as the present pope says must be done, but has yet to demonstrate exactly how to do it.

  9. Robert Lockwood says:

    Very interesting at my age of 79 I am living at a time when the most important areas of my life are disintegrating beyond recovery, my Catholic Church and my country America.

    • I am only 63 (13 years younger than you, Robert), and I feel the same way. The whole thing is beyond redemption and very depressing. I hope I do not live to see the final outcome.

    • John Feeney says:

      Well said Robert Lockwood!

    • Lockwood, it could be worse, they could be lining up hungry lions at your door.

    • Yes, it is difficult to flock with the true Church what with so many false shepherds today and their mobs of fantasy Catholics all running amok.

    • Nothing in this life is permanent, Robert. Be thankful for your many good years. I have lost children, husband, parents, friends, and of course, I could go tomorrow. How many millions of people have been uprooted and lost everything throughout history. Think of what’s happening in Syria, Nigeria…practically everywhere. Are we better than our brothers and sisters throughout the world that suffer? Should we not thank our loving Father that no matter what, He loves us with an infinite love? Jesus gave all for us. Now we’re to be on our mettle and perhaps be called upon to give all for Him. God bless you Robert, gentle soul. It’s our grandchildren I worry about. What kind of world are we leaving them?

      • Catherine says:

        Dana,

        That was a very truthful..sweet… kind and caring response! : )

        • Abeca Christian says:

          I agree Catherine….Dana is sweet and her response is kind. I just feel sad that our elders are feeling hopeless….I feel blessed to be alive…just yesterday a very young man died. I can only imagine how the mum is feeling, having to bury her young son. : ( I cried most of the day and today I am still down about it….I was concerned for my health issues but I see that there are others who are worst than I).

          I am grateful to be alive…..and better grateful if my health was better.

          • JMJ 4 ever says:

            Eternal Father, look with pity on your servant abeca and if it be your will to remove her cross, may she be healed, in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. Eternal rest grant unto the young man that she is grieving. Let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. May his mother find consolation in You and in Your Salvation. May all who mourn receive your healing balm. Through Christ our Lord. Our Lady of Holy Pity, pray for all of us now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

          • Catherine and Abeca, thank you both for your support and Christian love. It is so great to meet here with a cuppa tea and share our thoughts. We’re all frustrated, I think, that we just don’t have real leadership offering real solutions and concrete things we can do to really get something done to thwart these yahoos. I must remind myself to ‘trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding.”

    • Jesus will as always be supplying new wine and new wineskins.

      • Yep!
        He did a lot of that when He took part in the Second Vatican Council…and sent the Holy Spirit to guide the Bishops, the Successors to the Apostles!

  10. Jim McCrea says:

    Thank you for posting that hilarious picture. Silliness is as silliness does.

  11. Oh, yes, Jim…by all means, bring back the nehru jacket, the peace symbol and long sideburns. Peace bro. Your pathetic attempt at sneering at that which you’re incapable of understanding only exposes the paucity and shallowness of your understanding and your incredible insensitivity to that which is Holy. I see a megachurch in your future, maccrea, with coffee cups and chats during the service so you can hang out with Jesus Christ Superstar and your friends at the same time. Far out!

    • Might as well include some LSD in all that, Dana. Remember that grand guru, “Dr.” Timothy Leary who blew out more brains with his advice to “Turn on, tune in, drop out”? Yes, I am old enough to remember the results from young people following his advice. I saw many who were rumaging through garbage cans around colleges, usually city ones, looking for “treasures” and things to eat. Yes, those are just great times to bring back. Aren’t they? Compared to the times before with the Latin Mass and very little drug taking, they were so very groovy.

      • Indeed, Anne T. Leary was of the ‘older generation’ too! As a matter of fact, it was perverted old roues like him (aka college professors) that got young people into left winged politics, drugs and cynicism. I know because I saw it happening. At Kent State back in the early 60’s when I was there, there were a group of aging communists that worked full time building up interest and membership constantly infiltrating and slithering around campus. I wasn’t the least surprised at what happened there later on because so much effort had gone into undermining young people there. We all know about the obvious ones like Berekely but many campuses around the country were easy prey. Doesn’t it just creep you out to hear people that still carry that baggage around with them? It doesn’t come out as groovy but that same sort of ‘superior’ mockery of the Holy, patriotism, etc. just shivvers m’timbers, mate.

      • Timothy Leary’s cabin overlooking Palm Springs, along with the area around it which once had hundreds of tents, and lots of pot farms was swept last month by the Mountain Fire.

        • Hmmm. Interesting. My brother was just telling me today that pot from CA is one of the biggest ‘industries’ there now. Have you heard anything like that? It’s off the subject. Sorry about that.

    • Jim McCrea says:

      You obviously remember things that I don’t. But that’s OK. We all are getting along, aren’t we?

      The picture proved to me why it is so hard to find old Irish lace tablecloths.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Jim why do you hate and persecute…….God have mercy on our soul

      • Jim and Bob One, I have no problem with the New Mass when it is done according to the rubrics, but your ideas that everything in the Mass before 1962 was just awful and everything afterwards was just wonderful is not reality. That is why Dana and I just love to “tweak your noses” a little about it all. Afterward, I did once drive a Volkswagen, and was so adept at it that I literally drove between a truck and a larger car — when the truck moving over in my lane did not see me — and came out of the whole situation unscathed, including my “bug”.

        • And all by the grace of God of course.

          • haha. That is funny now, but I’ll bet you were pretty relieved at the time, Anne. Thank God for His tender mercies. I”ve had many a close call myself!

          • Yes, I was Dana, and I meant to say in my sixth line “After all” not “afterward”.

  12. St. Christopher says:

    “Thomas Edward Miles”: Your comments are testimony to what many see as the beginning of a period of repression for Catholic Tradition. Perhaps not from the Holy Father, but from his appointed administrators and by the many liberal clergy that hate Tradition and will do whatever they can to destroy the “Medieval Church.” Unfortunately, they — and you — have little sense of what Catholic Tradition means. It is certainly not “living in the past” for the Mass itself is immortal, as are the Ten Commandments, and centuries of Catholic teaching (i.e., “Tradition”). It is likely that your comments harbor a darker purpose. No, the Pope will not permit women priests, or homosexuals to marry, or married men to become priests, or all the rest of the anti-Catholic canon that Liberals constantly yammer about. Many many of the Church’s bishops — the bad ones — are getting old; the newer crop will be less liberal; and the next group less and less so. Decades and centuring from now, pious priests will be saying Mass Ad Orientum, giving communion on the tongue to kneeling worshippers, and all parishoners will hear the glories of Gregorian Chant. How many long-haired, hippie folks in bell bottoms and t-shirts with peace symbols on them still troll around Haight-Ashbury? Mick Jagger turned 70 and half of the Beatles are dead. Francis knows, and respects, this.

    • The people who say that the traditional Mass is living in the past have no spiritual life or benefit of Catholicism; they have no idea or even clue what they’re talking about.

    • Mick Jaegger is dead, he just doesn’t know it, St. Christopher. I think it was the Manchester Guardian who ran the headline after a recent rolling stones concert in Eng. “Night of the Living Dead’ with a really ghoulish picture of them on stage looking like death warmed over. Did they blow their fortunes that they need to keep working? It’s really sad to see them strut their stuff…I hope they carry depends. I feel the same way when I see some retiree that has to go back to work as a grocery box boy because his pension is too small to survive. Poor mick. wink wink

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Skai is right. They have no clue….they are children who never grow spiritually…who stay in the same place…..

      • Waiting for the concert where the Stonies enter the stage in battery powered walkers … or a few decades from now where they all circle up in wheel chairs with attendant nurses, while their greatest music videos scorch the minds of the throngs and hordes of people watching them on the projection screens … on Skype from all over the world.

        • haha. That is too funny, Skai. Truly the ‘rolling stones’ as they careen about in their jet fuel powered wheel chairs…”pleased to meetcha, hope you know my name” until their all honkey tonked out. Maybe they’ll have changed their names by then to the ‘rolling gall stones” by then.

  13. John Feeney says:

    Father Bruno said that He is worrried that Mother Perillo, who is in charge of those sisters in hermitages and her followers could fall into “heresy and disobedience”. Where in Catholic teaching doe it say to punish soneone for what they might do?

  14. Robert Lockwood, you are correct that the modern Vatican II church is disintegrating; however the Roman Catholic Church following tradition is growing in numbers. Seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. Don’t panic Jesus said He will be with His Church until the end of time and He keeps His holy word! Pray Jesus and Mary by the Rosary that they will show you their way back to the Roman Catholic faith.

  15. The picture of Cardinal Burke says it all! Where does he find those 15th century outfits. It speaks so much of not being part of the Catholic church, and being a part of the old traditions. It is things like this that drive people away from the true church to the evangelicals etc. Dressing up like that makes it all about him and not about Christ. When I was in first or second grade kids would dress up and “play” Mass. It looks like he saved his play cloths.

    • Anonymous says:

      Bob One, I am disappointed that you would judge someone on their clothes. I know people who would have said something similar but because they know the Cardinal, they don’t. They say that when he talks to you, you can really see Jesus looking at you from his eyes and that he is the most kind person they have ever met who gives them their full attention when speaking with them.

    • Ahhh Bob One, I will take the old tradition over novelty that has flooded into the Church and left it desolate. What makes me life Bob One is that your side has been near complete control over liturgy, Catechesis, parish architecture, nearly everything. What has been the result Bob One, massive fall off in the Faith and you blame traditionalist, what a complete joke. It is your side that has caused this wreckage and will be my side that save, yes we may be smaller but we will be holier. Basic observation Paris 2010 regular Sunday in November most every single diocesan church was empty, however the SSPX chapel was filled to gills… What drives people away from the Church Bob One is novelty, weak preaching, and accommodation with every modern idea that you liberals think… One day us traditionalist will stand over the dust of your novelty and I will smile…..I will always attack you Bob One… Long Live the Church Militant

      • Reprocess says:

        Caninsius, ignore that guy. I mean seriously, he’s a cliche. The spiritually barren delinquents who wander out the door of the Church have never pursued the faith seriously enough to have even heard of Cardinal Burke much less care about his garments, and have no clue about what tradition even is. Of course Canisius you’re right about modernism being the ultimate void of religious identity, inevitably a stepping stone to New Ageism. It would be a blessing for the Church if Bob One and his ilk would all leave, just like he says is happening.

        • Canisius says:

          Reprocess, I could not have it better. That whole entire crowd should just vacate the Church so we can rebuild it.

        • Anonymous says:

          Do you know what modernism is? Do you know what Tradition is?

          • Look it up in the CCC2ndEd, Anonymous.

          • Anonymous says:

            I was speaking to Reprocess because he wrote tradition and I wanted to know if he knew about Tradition. As for Modernism, it is often misunderstood and Canisius did not even mention it in his post which is what prompted my question. Tradition, of course, is in the catechism. I do not think modernism would be.

        • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

          No, we should never want them to leave but to be converted!

          I know I have been so irritated in the past to state that they should leave, but I would rather they came home!

          God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
          Kenneth M. Fisher

      • Anonymous says:

        Do you know what the Church Militant is?

        • Canisius says:

          Yes more than you, its the third part of the Church the other two are the Church Suffering (souls in purgatory) Church Triumphant (souls in Heaven)… you may go back to your seat now

          • Anonymous says:

            I was checking since your phrase Long Live the Church Militant didn’t make a lot of sense. The Church Militant and the Church Suffering will not be permanent, of course.

          • Canisius says:

            I am quite aware of that Anon….., I don’t need to be schooled thank you

      • In the last fifty years I have attended several parishes (move a lot) that are full every Sunday, some with nearly a thousand at every mass. What brings them into those churches rather than others is great preaching and great music that reaches the souls of all ages. But most important, is a reverant Mass with Christ at the center of everything. These parishes have all had vibrant faith formation and social service opportunities. I don’t see people leaving.

        • You’re describing shopping malls, B.O.

        • Leaving? Please!
          Just check out the Sunday night Mass at St. Augustine Church in South San Francisco, which has about one thousand people each week at five o’clock!
          And that is merely ONE of SIX Sunday Masses celebrated in this vibrant, faithful, Filipino community.

    • Bob One, those vestments are a whole lot more rational than the tutuz you novus ordo types thrill to.

    • Catherine says:

      Wow! It is definitely a pattern. Once again it is Cardinal Burke who compels the RB Roddas and BoB One’s to crawl out from under their duplicitous dark rocks to expose their true hatred for the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. The power of Christ always compels a serpent to hiss.

      • The authentic teachings of the Catholic Church are set in stone and must be followed. We all know that, Catherine. On that we do not disagree. I don’t even question Cardinal Burke’s “right” to wear his outfit. I just think that all that silk and lace is a bit silly. But, that is a personal opinion, not a questioning of church teachings.

        • Catherine says:

          Extra.. Extra.. Read all about it! California Catholic Daily posts a story about the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, including a photo of Cardinal Burke and The Power of Christ compelled Bob One to finally publicly admit that the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church are set in stone. Bob One publicly said he agrees with these teachings. This is good news because so far Bob One has ONLY been compelled to defend the ACLU.

          THANK YOU CCD! Let us pray that Bob One will one day realize the division he causes when he deliberately mocks the traditions that are held very dear to many Catholics and the traditions that have fostered holiness in the lives of many martyrs and canonized saints.

          Readers are now requesting California Catholic Daily to please place even more photos of Cardinal Burke in their stories so that the Power of Christ will compel Bob One’s conscience and heart to now actually defend “all” of those teachings. If the Power of Christ compelled Bob One to admit that the authentic teachings are set in stone, just a few more photos of Cardinal Burke could further assist Bob and also compel RB Rodda to praise Mother Angelica for defending “all” Church teaching.

          • Dear Catherine, I have never questioned the teachings of the Catholic Church; any of them. Wearing silk and lace is not one of the dogmas of our religion. It is only a tradition (lower case “t”) that was esentially termed out sixty years ago. So much of what some people call tradition is really just prefered by the writer. I like the NO, going on fifty plus years at this point, so it is not “new” but is the standard of the Church. Everything else is extraordinary, which is ok but of no more value in the dispensation of grace. If people like the TLM, they should attend happily, and those who like the NO should attend happily. But, Cardinal Burke is too high up in the Church to be confusing people by his mode of dress. On the other hand, maybe he can get some priests to actually buy a cassock. But then, when would they wear it? Still on the ACLU thing I see after lo these many years.

        • Bob One, I didn’t know you were Jewish. The Jews had their law set in stone, and they had to follow it. But then God became man and … well, seek out a good catechist to explain it to you.

      • That is a little extreme Catherine. I think all he is saying or all I am saying is that Cardinal Burke is a silly and confused man. He looks ridiculous in that garb.

    • I have met this man, very naïve. That garb he wears is ridiculous. He is a reactionary, stuck in the past unable to move the church into the modern world. He reminds me of cross dresser

  16. Anton L Seidl says:

    Bob One: Your criticism of Cdl. Burke’s robe is pathetic. What is your beef about tradition? Tradition is exactly what has been trashed by the tinkerers of Vatican 2. They have debauched the liturgy, desecrated our sanctuaries with gaudy posters, mistranslated scripture, vulgarized our prayers, introduced altar girls, and changed our holy mass into a protestant prayer meeting. Thank you very much!

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Anton, the problem and the promise of tradition is that it is not Tradition. Our Church honors Sacred Tradition with a status equivalent to Scripture. Small t tradition, on the other hand, is not. Whether lace and silk came into use in the 4th century or the 14th, they are small t tradition, and whether you like them or not is totally up to you. But those who confuse T with t are those who cause trouble and divisiveness in our Church Catholic.

      The promise of small t tradition is that you and I can participate in creating small t traditions that future generations can continue or not, depending on whether it speaks to them. Thus, if my local tradition uses lots of silk and lace, so be it. If yours does not, that’s fine too. But it would be a confusion of T with t to describe your church as having debauched the liturgy because the forgo one or both.

  17. I watched Pope Francis preside at a most wonderful Mass on the beach in Rio in front of millions of youth. It was simple and most prayerful. It was the ordinary form of the Mass of the Catholic Church. He did not wear yards of lace and twenty feet of trailing cloth behid him, with gloves on or a three tier crown on his head. He wore a simple alb, a simple chasuble, miter, and those around him were the same. The music was well done, some in Latin, etc. Why is anything more needed?

    • Noticed that you could not answer any of my charges,,, because you cannot…your side Bob One has destroyed the Church with your novelty and your pathetic attempt at being modern

      • Modern is just short hand for ‘new and improved, the in thing, the now, the hip, the cool, twentytwo skiddoo, hootchie cootchie, cat’s pajamas. tres rigeur, ad infinitum…every age is modern because it is what is the now. Thoroughly modern millie is now six feet under. Modernists are the most dated, anachronistic people on the planet. The Church is ever new because it is not measured in worldly time but marks its days in eternal time…
        All things counter, original, spare, strange;
        Whatever is fickle, freckled (who knows how?)
        With swift, slow; sweet, sour; adazzle, dim;
        He fathers-forth whose beauty is past change:
        Praise Him.” Gerard Manley Hopkins

    • That’s what Martin Luther said, Bob, and you know where he ended up. All the treasures of the Church …the graven idols to the protestant rebels were melted down and added to fat purses and bulging private fortunes. All the Honiton and Belgian lace from the ‘gaudy and extravagent’ priestly vestments went to adorn protestant attire and homes. My sister (who is a very strong evangelical) said that the priestly robes and nuns habits are really important to everyone as they bring proof of heaven here on earth. You really missed the lessonn on Christ with His jewelled crown, and Mary’s coronation as Queen of Heaven and how we’ll be rewarded with our crown in heaven…What do you think Jesus will be wearing when He returns to earth? Bluejeans and a peasant shirt? It’s is Pope Francis’ perogative to dress as he does, but please remember that EVERY pope unti now has always worn just what you saw Pope Benedict XVI wear, and many of the vestments have been worn by many popes. You’ll recognize a favorite mitre worn by Pope John Paul, also. The howling proletariet encircle civilization’s crumbling gates and their demand for ‘equalite and fraternite’ drown out the ‘music of the spheres’.

      • B.O., to you, as you post it, Mass is a show, and no matter how they perform it, you are good to go. And you even see it as sufficient to watch it on TV!!! Have you ever looked into joining the televangelist crowd … zillions of fans, B.O., or Islam … their have to follow some writing in a book too, just like you see religion as consisting of

      • Martin Luther ended up in Beverly Hills, which is where I met him during many years of Sunday School.

  18. The Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate have done an EXCELLENT job in the past couple of years in helping to produce video media for the COURAGE/EnCOURAGE program. Several of the videos that they have produced from the annual conferences-including COURAGE member testimonies-are up on YouTube and can be watched for free. They have many other Catholic videos as well that are added to their channel regularly, and they also have many free .mp3 files you can download and listen to at airmaria dot com. I hope and pray that their inner conflicts are resolved soon.

  19. Indeed the Latin Mass is only the tip of the iceberg as far as the Franciscans of Immaculate are concerned. This order has not been as scrupulous as it should have been in bringing in new members. There is an inordinate number of misfits and malcontents in this order. They are disorganized and directionless. Poor leadership and too much local autonomy has not served them well. The teachings and preaching of the Friars is often well outside of church teaching. The notion that they live in poverty is mistaken as well. Many of them live in the lap of luxury. Don’t fall for the “poor Franciscans of the Immaculate” rhetoric, far from it.

    • If these men truly live “in the lap of luxury,” Maltese, they remind me of that priest who left the priesthood because, despite being part of a Religious Order (i.e., poverty, chastity, obedience) he lived really high on the hog, with vehicles, land, and all kinds of stuff. Corapi, I believe, Father Corapi. Then when his Religious Order asks him to obey (gasp!), he jumps ship.

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