Eating disorders – help for priests

Fray Felipe in the movie Mark of Zorro (1940)

Fray Felipe in the movie Mark of Zorro (1940)

The following appeared in the April 12 edition of the L.A. archdiocesan newspaper, The Tidings.

….Among all developed nations, the United States has the highest rate of obesity, which has been linked to an increase in type II diabetes, hypertension and cardiovascular disease. Since 1962, the rate has jumped from 13 to nearly 36 percent of the population, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Among adults 20 and over today, that adds up to some 78 million obese Americans.

One of them is Father Patrick Kirsch of the San Bernardino Diocese. Four years ago, the 5’7” priest weighed over 300 pounds. Even after dropping 50 pounds, he continues to struggle with his weight.

“For me it was like I would take care of people, going from one thing to another, and I wouldn’t stop for lunch or dinner,” he said. “By the time I got home, I was starving. So then I would eat and eat — whatever was there.

“Even now I’m in a parish, St. Margaret Mary in Chino, with 3,000 families. And I’m by myself. I have no help because we’re so short of priests. So I still just go from one thing to the next. The good thing is I love what I do, so I don’t see it as a burden. But I’m really the one who suffers, and I know that it’s not healthy if I can’t say to myself, ‘You need to help yourself before you can help other people.’”

But the 58-year-old cleric, who was ordained 32 years ago, said that simple self-help reality was really difficult for him to acknowledge, and believes it’s the same for many other overworked priests today. Priests, after all, are accustomed to listening to other people’s problems and telling them what to do.

“We’re not used to be told, ‘This is what you need to do’,” he said.

Henning

Henning

Dennis Henning — who founded the Ephesus Renewal Center in 1997 in Sacramento to specifically help priests and religious brothers suffering from eating disorders — has worked with Father Kirsch for four years. To gain the trust of the priest, the 51-year-old Sacramento native shared his own struggle as a compulsive binge overeater with a 15,000-to-20,000-calories-a-day food habit since his early teens.

Then together they looked at the priest’s eating habits, exercise and daily stresses he faces as a priest, coming up with a plan that broke down when and what he ate….

Msgr. Lorenzo Miranda, the Los Angeles Archdiocese’s vicar for clergy, introduced Henning to local priests last fall. Earlier this year he reported receiving “very positive” feedback from several who had sought help for their eating disorders. The vicar encouraged other priests suffering from compulsive overeating, under-eating, obesity and other food and behavioral related issues to also reach out to the executive director of the Ephesus Renewal Center, which is now located in Southern California.

“Living out our vocation as a priest is a wonderful blessing that will hopefully be filled with the presence of the Holy Spirit and many years of health and happiness,” he wrote in a letter to all his brother priests. “However, the archdiocese also understands that some of us, at some point in our ministry, may very well have to deal with issues related to stress, depression, anger, self-doubt and isolation. Serious issues, such as these, can affect us emotionally and/or physically….
To read the entire story, click here.

 

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  1. R.B. Rodda says:

    It is remarkable how obesity is not quickly related to gluttony and hence mortal sin like other conditions. Yes, some medical conditions cause people to gain weight or at least it makes it very difficult for them to lose weight but that’s the rare exception rather than the rule.

    Gluttony and obesity are horrible things that are really doing a number on us.

    • Mark from PA says:

      I feel that obesity is like a disability. It is sad that many priests suffer from this. They need help in better taking care of themselves. They shouldn’t feel guilty if they want to join a gym or spend time walking or swimming. Also it is very important for priests to get 8 hours of sleep a night. Sleep is very important because sometimes people use food, caffeine and sugar to help keep them going when what they really need is to get adequate rest. There is a shortage of priests but priests can’t go 24/7 and they need to take proper care of their health.

      • PA, are you running for czar of “adequate rest”? You’ll make everyone go to sleep when you are sworn in, and begin your acceptance speech.

    • Any priest or brother who goes around celebrating any form of immorality has no place in a society that prides itselve in virtue.

  2. I think gluttons are disgusting. Obviously, gluttons have no spiritual center and cannot control their worldly appetites. I think we should protect the public from such hopelessly corrupt individuals.

    Thus, I think the Boy Scouts, the Priesthood and the Military should exclude all gluttons. If we see a fat glutton we should immediately inform them of their sin—and refuse to socialize with them until they profess to be on a diet.

    Such people are NOT SAFE to allow around children. Gluttons must be intrinsically disordered and are thus must also have other sick desires like being a rapist, murderer, or into bestiality. I think its disgusting how society ignores this horrible sin.

    • bwangi Kilonzo says:

      ‘spiritual center ‘
      Tell me, what is that?

    • Proud Rhodesian says:

      Gluttony is one of those seven deadlies…you reap what you sow buddha…

      • Gluttony is an imbalance between the calories one burns and the calories one consumes. If one is a consuming fire, then one shall walk in the way of the Lord.

    • JonJ, once again your personal interpretation of sin, in this case gluttony, is idiotic. By your skewed measure, the good Friar Tuck would never have made it to Purgatory, and yet we all know that he did. And we all know that he ate massive portions of spit roast hogs and deer and quaffed untold pints of ale. And yet all this nutrition fortified him for his frequent battles of staff and sword and wit against the evil usurpers of just authority in the realm. So, JonJ, you need to lighten up your load of crackers and get real.

      • Gluttons have the absolute responsibility to turn away from their gluttony. What is important is that all gluttons renounce sensual pleasures and pick up their crosses and follow Jesus. The critical difference between a prostitute and a glutton is honesty: The prostitute admits her sin, but the glutton refuses every time they stuff their face with food. Each spoonful denies God. There is no way you can enter Heaven while possessing the attitude of greed, and gays are intrinsically greedy.

        • You, JonJ, seem to be a glutton for irrationality.

          • I completely agree with your assessment of the reasoning behind this passage, Skai.

            Of course, I cut and pasted this from you on the “Boy Scout” thread and simply substituted “gluttony” for “gay” and “homosexual”.

            I did, however, add the part about “stuff their face with food” and “every spoonful denies God”. Of course, this is consistent with your assertions that gays are unrepentant when they continue to engage in gay sex. A glutton would be similarly unrepentant as long as they continue to indulge in gluttony.

            I am gratified to hear your assessment of the reasoning behind this passage.

    • Francis says:

      JonJ:

      Funny, how “gluttony” is a deadly sin, but somehow homosexuality didn’t make the Big Seven. Un-perceptivenes didn’t make it in, either. Thankfully there are still plenty of GREAT deadly sins to go around. Pride seems to be a popular one!

      • Homosexuality, Francis, made the big number uno, dude. “Sodomy is a sin crying out to Heaven for vengeance”. St Paul says sodomy is the consequence of sin … ie, it is what happens to hypocrites whose skulls are destined to line the streets of Hell.

        • Francis says:

          Looks to me like somebody counts in a totally different language than the rest of us. Apparently “numero uno” means “Skai thinks gays are the most important people in the world.” Perhaps some of our SSA friends here think so, but I think the poor and vulnerable, widows and orphans deserve that spot. Maybe Skai is confused by the Four Sins Crying Out to Heaven for Vengeance, where sodomy is numero dos, and of course there’s no end to questions like “what
          WAS the sin of Sodom, really?”
          In the REST of the Catholic world (see newadvent, catholic.org, or just ask your mom) the Seven Deadly Sins are: Pride, Greed, Lust, Gluttony, Anger (I’m getting there with your twisted math!), Envy, and Sloth.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Skai speaks the truth! I applaud the truth!

  3. The Church is falling apart left and right from the America’s to Europe and this is what the “Tidings” is concerned about???

    • Most Catholics including the Clergy have lost sensitivity to sin. That is what it comes down to.

      • JonJ, insensitivity to sin is the result of being gay; only the gay people have devolved to that state. Repent while there is yet time.

  4. Who can afford to eat 15,000 to 20,000 calories a day? Wow, that one really amazed me! I wonder if Henning use to tell people that his problem was a slow metabolism?

    • Tracy, I agree. We must all use the package information to determine the total calories we are ingesting. The counts are even included on fast food packaging.
      Education is required.
      The use of a scale EVERY morning at approximately the same time is helpful to keep us in check. (Its easier to correct a 2 or 3 pound weight gain, rather than 20 or 30 pounds.)

    • They should not be let in. Should cannibals also be admitted into the clergy? For their is no difference between cannibalism and gluttony, both are assaults against nature!

      • JonJ, are you saying that obese people should be put in jails along with cannibals? You gay dudes really are bizarre, and should never be allowed authority over anyone.

        • Skai, you power-hungry pathetic failures in life who wish to gain a vicarious sense of success through government compelling others to live according to your preferences shouldn’t have authority over others either.

          If posting lies about me makes you happy, be my guest. Bearing false witness apparently isn’t a sin in Skai’s cafeteria catholic world.

          [Note to editor: if you are going to allow Skai to post insults about me based on his judgment’s about my sins you must allow me to post the same things about Skai.]

          • Anonymous says:

            Why do certain posters, when they can’t intimidate a poster into shutting up, always accuse them of being gay? Is it to make others think they are gay and so discount them? Or it is just an insult?

  5. Maryanne Leonard says:

    My goodness, so much hate, and what the world needs now is love. If you are reading this, you need love, and so do all the millions of people you are all judging and distancing yourself from. Recent research has shown that having an overeating disorder is centered in the brain, which lights up just like brains of heroin addicts at the thought of food. Lack of respect, friendship and often lack of love leads overweight people to feel badly and turn to their addiction, food, and you all react by letting them know you find them disgusting. Is this what you learned in Church about how to be a good Catholic? I wonder if you believe all overweight people are going to hell, along with the child abusers and murderers? Do you see yourself as superior to them? Do you see yourself part of the problem, or part of the solution?

    • This has nothing do with hate, Maryanne. Gosh, we only hate sin. And gluttony is sin, right? Don’t we need to avoid all sinners according to the Bible?

      In fact, I don’t think we should try to rehab such priests. They are obviously intrinsically disordered and thus unsuitable for the priesthood due to psychological reasons. Such individuals are gluttons because they clearly do not have a healthy relationship with God.

      In fact, anyone who has BMI more than 30 should be excluded from the Priesthood, teaching positions, the military, the Boy Scouts, youth coaching, and any other leadership position in society in which they might influence others. We need to protect the rights of employers to summarily fire such disgusting and corrupt sinners.

      All of that recent research into mambly pambly “reasons” for glutton doesn’t make any difference.Whether the cause is genetic, in the brain, or due to psychological trauma suffered in youth makes no difference. As the brilliantly insightful Skai has noted, it’s still sin and intrinsically disordered. All the glutton needs to do is pray, and stop stuffing their face—and they will get right with God. It’s just the cross such people have to bear in life and God demands they refrain from this sinful impulse lest they spend eternity in hell. Study such a condition is simply a waste of time and research dollars.

      In fact, anyone with a BMI over 30 should be denied a marriage license because their inherent psychiatric disorder make them incapable of contracting a proper marriage. Let them get right with God before they attempt to enter into a holy sacrament like marriage.

      • DottyDay says:

        I suggest you be quiet and eat your peas.

      • Really difficult to digest your post, JonJ; probably because it don’t make no sense, probably because it mocks something serious. “BMI”?? Big Massive Intake??

        • BMI=Body Mass Index

          This is a height/weight measure commonly used by some health insurance companies for risk assessment and by some parties in the health care field.

          I don’t like BMI’s very much because they don’t really account for bone structure, I think body fat percentage is much better.

    • Has it ever even occurred to you, Maryanne, that such a reaction could be done out of pure disgust at even the thought of gluttony? Well, Maryanne, the very idea of gluttony is loathsome to many people.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        gluttony can be gross yes but you still have the dignity of the person who is suffering….Maryanne makes a good point. Praise God that Jesus came to save the sinner because some people here show lack of mercy.

  6. Why are we readers taking it as fact that anyone could eat 20,000 calories per day? That is 26 cups of sugar, which weighs 12 pounds. Someone explain how anyone can consume a 12 pound sack of sugar daily, every day. Am I sensing sheep dip with this claim?

    • One cup of lard has 1850 calories which is almost 11 cups of lard amounting to 20,000 calories. Maybe Hennig mixed 12 cups of sugar with 6 cups of lard and consumed that ration daily. Maybe he added a bit of white flour and called it the world’s biggest mega-donut.

      • 20,000 calories per 54 chocolate Dunkin Donuts. Hennig must’ve been already in heaven after years of eating 54 donuts per day, every day, every week … wow, that’s almost 20,000 donuts per year. But donuts are more expensive than bulk lard, sugar and white flour, so the wise thing to do is buy in bulk (yuk yuk yuk) ((please notice double pun).

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Skai it is sad that some people can eat that much, what people forget is that with an obese person, their stomach has already been accustomed to eating more because they have made their stomach big. They would have to eat less to shrink it and since eating disorders are complex, they would have to treat it with different therapy options and one that is best, is that they realize that they have a problem and that they use the sacraments to help them heal as well.

          • I dislike with a passion any attempt to pass off something that is so morally repugnant and shameful as good and acceptable to society.
            Its sick. Its Demonic, and Evil!! And I HATE all evil.

          • Maybe, Abeca; after all, there are always those hot dog eating contests where they gobble down dozens of hotdogs within minutes. Still, I don’t think someone could down 20,000 calories per day, daily, week after week.

  7. To begin 15,000-20,000 calories isn’t expensive or hard to come by.
    Caloric foods are often cheaper than fresh.
    What I can’t get past is the frredom of priests and religious – thanks to the generosity of their Bishops/superiors to take off and get treatment for these issues.
    When was the last time you heard of a married lay person being able to take a couple years awayfrom work to reside near a famous clinic in order to deal with their drinking problems or a year away from their spouse and children to “discern” their vocation? Thats right – they can’t dream of doing these things and therefore they must deal with it or lose everythng. Same goes for eating disorders. Father, your life is difficult – so is everyone’s, but you are *blessed* to have this option!

    • Kenneth M. Fisher says:

      Toby,
      Most lay persons work a 40 hour week. Real priests work around the clock! Do you really begrudge them their sabbaticals?
      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

    • Toby, when’s the last time you gobbled up 20,000 calories in a 24 hour period?

  8. Abeca Christian says:

    Those with eating disorders can have outcomes both ways. Some over eat and some under eat. As you may see some are overweight but there is another one that is not talked about often and the one is of those who under eat when they are upset, their taste buds turn off due to emotional issues.

    I pray for all who suffer with any type of eating disorder. I once met a wonderful lady that attended my woman’s bible studies, she was a sweet devout Catholic. She was a little bit over weight but by meeting her you wouldn’t have known that she suffered with an eating disorder. It was something she suffered in private. She would often feel bad and go to confession for committing gluttony, she said that it would help, she always felt healing but something inside her would trigger her to fall back in. It’s an emotional disorder for some and for some it is just gluttony….we need to discern the difference and we pray for Jesus to bring healing.

    We are imperfect and part of finding healing is to realize that and confront the issue and use the sacraments for healing….just like any other vices one may have….it is Christ that can give strength, real love and courage to work towards healthier choices.

    • Mike R. says:

      Gluttony is a serious disorder – a form of dysfunction characterized by puerility and egotism. If society really knew just what these gluttons do in pursuit of their sick kicks, they would be deeply offended and nauseous.

  9. Fiftyfour donuts per day could also be called “eating the poor”, since that’s the equivalent of a decent number of calories needed by ten poor people.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Skai you are right but to a person with an eating disorder, those points may not make it better…feelings of guilt can also trigger in them to over eat. It think that with some people it is something much more deeper. I hope that they pray for temperance and seek the sacraments for healing. Jesus can help them.

      • All power and authority is God’s He says to the gluttons at His door, “No way”.

      • JonJ, you’re obviously struggling to overcome something. Jesus remained on the Cross until He overcame it all. Maybe you can hook up with Jesus and let Him show you how.

  10. Last I heard, gluttony is still one of the seven deadly sins. When’s the last time you heard a sermon on it? Perhaps more frequent confession would help these priests overcome this sin–a sin that’s very public and speaks volumes about the priests’ lifestyle.

  11. Just. Put. The. Fork. Down.

  12. JonJ, your posts are not correct, and perhaps evilly intended (because of your bent toward the sin of sodomy and homosexual acts – per your own writings).
    There is no evidence that overweight people will harm children, unlike NAMBLA homosexuals.
    Why are you promoting hate in your posts?
    There is no excuse for gluttony, but being overweight in some cases has been PROVEN to be a health problem due to thyroid, or heredity, or emotional problems.
    These people need to get a physical to determine what the health issues are and then move forward accordingly to lose the weight.
    Weighing oneself every morning and paying attention to the calories on foods will help those who are overweight.

    • Mark from PA says:

      Mike, I haven’t read anywhere here where JonJ said that he was involved in “homosexual acts.” I have never heard him mention his sexual orientation and have never heard him speak positively about NAMBLA. From reading what he is writing, his “promoting hate” against obese people is just quoting from nasty comments that people here have made against gay people and changing the target.

      • PA, as I’ve pointed out, it’s you gays that are bewildered over normals being able to cut you out of the herd so easily. Don’t you ever wonder why or how we can do this?

      • Give Mark from PA the cigar! That’s exactly what I’m doing.

        In fact, many of my posts are near exact cut and pastes where I substituted “gluttony” for “gay” or “homosexual”. It was pretty amusing to hear a number of people here attack their own words.

        • I’m beginning to wonder, JonJ, if you yourself are obese. If so, it would explain your radical departure from your usual style of blogging. What I have learned is balance. Eat a ton, and burn a ton of calories. Ora et Labora: Pray as if you’re Jesus in Gethsemane, and work as though you’re John Henry the Steel Drivin’ Man. Do that and it’ll turn you into Blood, Sweat and Tears.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai hey good observation…hmmm inquiring minds wonder?

          • Yep, Skai, I’m a big, fat gay glutton. Guess that invalidates the fact that many people here were calling the things I said cruel and unchristian. Funny how they sounded like me about comments directed at gays people

            That is, until they realized I was simply repeating their own words in a different context.

            So, now, the problem is all about me. Making me a gay, fat, glutton somehow makes it all ok. You can now forget about your own objective judgments about your own words and feel all moral and wonderful about yourselves.

            Pretty neat trick.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          I’d stay away from cigars…they are bad for you but if you want to give it to a fallen one..then you are contributing to their destruction and that makes you an accomplice to sin!

          • Mark from PA says:

            Abeca Christian, if it makes you feel any better, I have never smoked and never even tried it. I also never tried marijuana. Forget about cigars. My dad couldn’t even smoke a cigar in the house because I would pitch a fit. My parents smoked when I was a kid but I never liked it. I really used to complain if they smoked in the car.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Thank you MIKE I tried calling him on it but the editor didn’t allow. JonJ makes me sick!

      • I must confess, Abeca, I am very confused.

        I know that I am a “bad” catholic. People here repeatedly tell me so. However, since a good catholic has the duty to lovingly remonstrate the sinner and I clearly don’t know how to do this properly, I just followed the example of the devout.

        Gluttony is also a serious sin that can send a person to hell. In fact, I suspect homosexuality can be viewed as a subset of gluttony in catholic theology—in that the homosexual has an uncontrolled desire for sensual pleasures.

        Therefore, the majority of my posts here are cut and pastes from the Boy Scout thread with “gluttony” substituted for “homosexual” and “gay”, with some modifications to make them correctly on point to the discussions. You can check them out for yourself.

        Now, my posts from May 29, 2:13 PM, May 30, 10:04 AM and May 1, at 11:28 PM were not direct quotes. The other comments on gluttony were cut n’ pastes.

        Now, I do know that gluttony and homosexuality are two very different things. However, how can the tone of these words be anything but the kind and loving corrections that a good catholic should make to a sinner since none of the devout readers here objected to them? And certainly they must also be based on sound reasoning as well.

        • JonJ, in that you confess that you allow others to define your Catholicness and feel that definition sucks, then why don’t you turn to Jesus and allow Him to help you define your Catholicness??? Have you never heard of that saint who sat atop a pole for years, demonstrating publicly that Jesus is a superior resource for personality development than all his neighbors? Being isolated up there on that pole, he was immune to the interference of all those people wandering around him and wondering about him.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          With true confession there is no confusion. I am grateful for the sacraments.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Well, Abeca Christian, it is amazing that you didn’t recognize the rhetoric. You don’t seem to be as offended when gay people get attacked with the same words. I suppose when some people are considered less than fully human some people don’t feel that bad when those people are the target of hatred, cruelty, nastiness, etc.

  13. Welfare gluttony and food gluttony apparently go together like a horse and carriage.

  14. Michael says:

    Priests and other human beings who are obese need help getting healthy — not scolding for being sinful. Our whole COUNTRY is plagued by obesity, and we have a shortage of priests — ergo, we should work on getting everyone more knowledgable about the problems of not exercising enough, eating the wrong foods, etc.
    Priests who are too fat need help, sometimes from their superiors, to shape up — just as many dioceses have Intervention Programs for priests who have a drinking problem. One problem of being celibate in this discussion is that if a priest is just “grabbing” whatever food is handy, he has no intelligent person to tell him to get his act together , especially if he is living all alone, running from one meeting to another, and then neglecting his prayer life, his exercise, his diet, etc.

    • Prayer and fasting, Michael. It is the way of the people of God. God is faithful to His people and does not hand them snakes.

      These gluttons need to try it.

    • Why is it that priests are always considered victims when they live unwisely and/or unholy? What a crock to run such a scam on the Church! Priests are called by Christ to shepherd His faithful; when they are not up to it, then there are other careers available to them and they should make the transition. This “bottom up” theology that popped up a few decades ago (“Christ from below”) has taken the most stupid turns since then.

  15. Maryanne Leonard says:

    I remember in elementary school, there was one girl who was both extremely rich and extremely fat. Our town was designed for frugality and health, and she was driven to school and back by a fat chauffeur in the biggest Cadillac limousine I’d ever seen. Her parents owned the town garbage service, and her mother’s genuine diamond necklace was bigger than my mother’s pretend pearls. Still, I had the advantage of lots of friends and a tremendously energetic life, and this poor girl was more deserving than I of every possible accolade, being sweet, kind, smart, quiet, well-behaved, and ladylike. Yet her size immersed her in a sense of shame about herself that inhibited her from being one of the popular kids. I felt sorry for her despite all she had going for her, and sorrier now that new research has shown a chemical in the brain that causes overeating, just as with marijuana smoking. I think compassion and concern are more appropriate than the evil-sounding judgments I am reading in these comments. I am repelled by this type of thinking and am struggling to understand why people who would express such hateful comments think they are superior to people like poor little Virginia, the richest but loneliest girl in town, with a heart of gold and a smile like an angel. I was always nice to her, but I see now I should have defended an befriended her. I am struck with shame at how some of my fellow Catholics would be talking about her now, rather than to her. Wow. I had no idea some of you folks were so full of hatred for your fellow human beings. I should pray for you, but right now I am simply repelled by such thinking.

    • That is just the way it is. I know I avoided a friend I had at one place where I worked after he ate like a hog in front of me. I did not talk about or label him to others as I thought he might outgrow it, but I left him alone.

  16. good cause says:

    If I was the only priest for 3,000 families I would eat and eat, too. Poor soul, he needs some relief, not just a better diet.

    • The Cure’ of Ars was a priest of many families, and he ate hardly anything; perhaps it cost him his mortality, but it gained him his immortality.

  17. Mark from PA says:

    JonJ, a lot of your comments are tongue in cheek. I wonder if some of the posters are getting the message. It isn’t right to pick out any group of people for special hatred. We are all God’s children.

    • PA, yes, we can see that JonJ attempts to post “tongue and cheek” as you call it, but that is no excuse for his gay advocation, an in context your gay metaphor is demented.

  18. Abeca Christian says:

    It is sickening that some here would be so irrational and so stupid as to reason just to try to support any homosexual lifestyles. Sick and twisted to even twist our words….

    • Abeca Christian says:

      There is a demon and we need an exorcism performed!

    • Abeca, I just held up a mirror. It’s not my fault you don’t like what you see.

      I do not expect devout Catholics—or any stripe of catholic really—to advocate gay lifestyles. I do expect, however, that Catholics do not hurl hateful words at those they consider sinners.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        jonj it all depends on what you consider hateful. There are people who call the bible hateful and have tried censoring it. Just because some speak the truth jonj it doesn’t spell hate.

        It all depends what you consider hateful…the actions of many that offend God is hateful. The blind leading the blind away from God is hateful! So lets just leave it as that jonj. Who cares what I think of you jonj (which to be honest, I don’t think much nor judge your person because I don’t know you personally, I’m sure you can be a nice fellow but it’s by your words or reasoning that I can discern or pray to discern on how to make proper judgements, we all are judged one way or another by our words or actions) …remember it’s what God thinks of you that matters the most and sometimes your comments are not only offensive to some but I consider some of them to be offensive to our Lord. But I know, I know…we are imperfect..we are all sinners jonj…so I don’t have anything against you but somethings posted here will get a reaction and if I consider them to be misleading others or bringing forth confusion well what can I say? …it’s not always going to be to our liking….just remember that. God bless you and peace in Christ.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Oh yes jonj my apologies if I hurled hateful words as you have accused, my apologies…I must have lost it a little bit, but I wonder what you considered hateful? Was it my demon comment and asking many to pray and exorcism prayer? How is that hateful…the demons are out there feeding on all sinners weaknesses. Maybe I shouldn’t ask, who knows how you will reply . Maybe my reaction to what you were trying to convey was that I found misleading….again I hope you accept my apologies, no pun intended. Keep me in your prayers as will I for all….I mean it most sincerely. My only complaint was what you were trying to proof with your gay stuff. It’s just so irrelevant, it does not make sense to me but again worldly ways don’t make sense to me anymore, especially since I chose to carry my cross and walk with Christ…this secular world, they have lost the beautiful fear of the Lord in their hearts. We are truly wicked.

        We all have been infected and desensitized due to the sins that are dominating all through laws and home life, they are predominant….it’s cool to sin now a days..it’s cool …well it’s cool for those who have bought into those deceptions. What use to be considered real hate against God and natural law…is now under attack, interrogated, it’s now silenced, it’s now on trial, it’s now questioned, it’s now….etc etc

        I can go on and on…You know this because you have heard it here before..I’m sure. Yes we are all sinners but not all sinners advocate or promote sin….not all rebel against God and His natural law..one may have imperfections that lead them to struggle but hopefully they will not bring others down with them…hopefully they will acknowledge with action, that there is one God, one Holy God in the Holy Trinity and as they struggle with certain dangerous sins, that they will bring their suffering to our Lord alone without scandalizing another soul or at least make right by God and care for others to not walk in those same struggles.

        Love, Love, Mercy Mercy, conversion, repentance, conversion, forgiveness, salvation etc etc…..that is what our Lord is all about and a whole lot more….

      • Anonymous says:

        JonJ, you may have reached a point where you deeply realize that your arguments are not working. This is good. You have to begin the next step.

  19. Abeca Christian says:

    Today I was watching on Fox news a special report on the Kermit Gosnell trial. I’m glad that FOX had exposed this and made it a special story so hopefully more and more will know. As I watched this, it dawned to me, that some women who have had several abortions, they self punish or self suppress the pain by over eating. They commit gluttony without even knowing why. Later to find out that it was due to their guilt or pain of killing their unborn. Can you imagine the pain some of these women feel after they regret what they allowed to happen to their children. It is a deep wound. If you noticed some of the women were obese.

    They were young and now that they are older, they can’t conceive due to the damage abortion has caused and eating is their only pacifier. Some of them join a church to help them be lifted up and find forgiveness but since it is a deeper wound of harsher emotions that are hard to deal with…I can imagine many turn to drugs, over eating, alcohol,self punish etc..

  20. Abeca Christian says:

    Tonight my reflection is on this quote from this wonderful saint and I hope that it may soften the hearts of those who keep pushing their immoral agenda’s or theologies or views. Somethings are just not up for debate….like when people try to sympathize with those who support gay marriage…it’s not something that should be debated but this society has made us do it, unfortunately.

    “As soon as you willfully allow a dialogue with temptation to begin, the soul is robbed of peace, just as consent to impurity destroys grace.”
    –St. Josemaria Escriva

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