Christianity running on fumes

Bishop Baron tells Eucharistic congress in Philippines that Catholics have become blasé about the Blessed Sacrament
 Los Angeles auxiliary bishop Robert E. Barron speaks at a session of the 51st International Eucharistic Congress in Cebu, Philippines, January 26. (CNS photo/ Katarzyna Artmiak)

Los Angeles auxiliary bishop Robert E. Barron speaks at a session of the 51st International Eucharistic Congress in Cebu, Philippines, January 26. (CNS photo/ Katarzyna Artmiak)

The following comes from a January 26 OC Catholic article by Simone Brendan:

Los Angeles Auxiliary Bishop Robert Barron said popular culture’s message of individuals being “infinitely right” is “repugnant to (Catholics’) eucharistic faith.” But he also said Christianity is “running on fumes” as it tries to counter the trend of people leaving the church or staying away from the Eucharist.

“To stretch out like someone dying of hunger is the right attitude toward the Eucharist,” Bishop Barron said at the 51st International Eucharistic Congress. “What’s sad today is so many in the Catholic world have become blase about the Eucharist.”

The bishop said only 30 percent of Catholics in the United States actually receive Communion, calling this a “disaster.”

At a news briefing after his presentation at the congress, he said that, unlike the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche’s ideology of self-invention, Catholic faithful “did not invent (their) own story, we belong to a story” and that is “God’s drama.”

Bishop Barron — author of numerous books and a longtime faculty member, then president of Mundelein Seminary, major seminary of the Archdiocese of Chicago — said the call of the church today is to retain Catholics and attract new ones.

“If the church can’t find a way to tell that story in a theo-dramatic way, people will drift away to this easy self-invention philosophy,” he said. “So it is a real challenge to the church. … We’ve got to be bold. We’ve got to be confident. We’ve got to be smart.”



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  1. This is what happens when Catholic identity has been stripped away from the Faithful in the name of false ecumenism and “tolerance:……

  2. do hope the bishop can set into motion some concrete plans to do something about this stateside.

  3. I wonder if the Bishops speech also included that Catholics receiving the Eucharist should be prepared to receive. The body may be prepared but is the soul ? If the Church is wanting to attract new members, as we should to save them, then the truth need to be taught as Pope Benedict said” If the numbers in the pews, in the Sems and Convents are small and the truth is being said than so be it”. This also means that not all have a reasonable hope of entering our Fathers Kingdom.

  4. The Catholic Church is running on fumes because She no longer teaches as Christ taught. She has become socialistic/Marxist instead of being theological. With no more nuns to teach and nurse, and few priests who teach the Gospel, no wonder people are flocking to the Evangelical churches. Except for Fr. Pavone, how many priests and bishops are totally pro-life, since the majority voted for Obama. The Church has drunk the poison of modernism at V2, and She is dying.

  5. Ivy Leegh says:

    Most don’t believe that the Eucharist is the real Body of Christ. In their minds, it is a symbol or a cookie. The blame for this lies with disobedient bishops who allowed the faithful to start receiving Holy Communion in the hand while standing – Protestant style – as an act of defiance post VII. Also, we went from being told we must never touch the host, only the priests consecrated hands could touch it, to allowing all and sundry to distribute the Precious Body (and Blood, again another Protestantism). There should be an immediate return to the correct practice including kneeling at the altar rail to give due reverence and respect to the precious species and to encourage believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ.

  6. Why is it that some of the Catholic hierarchy, when preaching thirst and hunger for God, often appear in gaudy garments?

    • Tom Byrne says:

      For the same reasons the priests of ancient Israel were so attired: to lend beauty and dignity to their office (not their person) and to the liturgy. If we believe the Eucharist is Who it is, should the Body and Blood of Christ be attended by men in jeans and T-shirts?

    • Maybe because they’re human like the rest of us. Everybody likes to get “all dressed up” once in a while, right? Lighten up.

    • Mike, if you really want to know about the meaning behind vestments you can google it on line, or buy a Catholic Missal or book that explains many of them.

      By the way those “ugly, gaudy” red shoes that most of the popes have worn are to remind them that they should be willing to die for the Faith (shed their blood) and might be called upon to do so. Some popes did not like them either, and it was humbling for them to wear them but wear them they did, and they are not made by Prada.

  7. The very same Bishop Barron who says that most people have “a reasonable expectation of that all are saved”. Not so Bishop – this kind of wrong teaching leads people to think they don’t need a Redeemer at all, so it’s only logical that they would stay away from all the sacraments, why would they need them?

    Less than 30% of US Catholics go to Sunday Mass anyway, that’s the disaster! Do 100% of these receive Holy Communion? If so, another disaster.

    People not in a state of grace should NOT be presenting themselves for Holy Communion anyway, why not mention that, Bishop? Receiving worthily – on the tongue while on the knees – builds reverence.

    Lots of communicants does not equal lots of souls saved.

    • You are right. Barron violates the teaching of JESUS who said that “Many” will NOT be saved; “Few” will be saved.
      Mt 7:13-14; Lk 13:23-28.

      When Bishops or Priests do not adhere to Sacred Scripture and the CCC – there is a credibility problem.

    • Bishop Barron is merely re-stating the position forwarded by the late, distinguished Hans Urs von Balthasar. The Church thoroughly examined this PROPOSED position and found nothing in it contrary to the Faith. In addition, Urs von Balthasar was named a Cardinal (by Pope St. John Paul II) but, unless I am mistaken, died before the event. Before you challenge the orthodoxy of proposals to which the Church has not taken exception, perhaps you can disclose your own theological credentials that entitle you to dispute the work of recognized theologians. Without equal credentials, all might assume that you speak “with the valor of ignorance” and not from knowledge. We have too many self-appointed seers on CDC already.

      • The Words of Jesus “Many” will NOT be saved; “Few” will be saved.
        Mt 7:13-14; Lk 13:23-28 are to be believed.
        These are from Sacred Scripture the inspired word of God.
        You can believe Barron and von Balthasar, or you can believe GOD/JESUS.
        Many heresies are started by Bishops throughout history.

      • Look Caritas, if you choose to believe the von Balthasar/Baron empty hell hypothesis that’s your business. It has not been accepted by the Church and most will recognize it as ridiculous on it’s face, credentials notwithstanding.

  8. Bishops have failed.
    They do not encourage literate Catholics to read a Catholic Bible, and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edition” (aka CCC; dark green cover in the USA).

    Instead too many Bishops and Priests make things up and expect the people to believe them.

  9. Tony de New York says:

    Bishop Baron, we Catholics need to hear about REDEMPTION, SALVATION AND GRACE.

  10. A bishop’s cassock is not a gaudy garment. The cassock has been the traditional garb for priests and bishops for a long time, just as the religious habit is part of an order or congregation’s dress.

    • Linda Maria says:

      All religious vestments and garments are holy and blessed. They are not for ordinary use, in the “fallen,” secular world! They are for clergy and nuns to wear– those whose lives are consecrated in the service of God!

  11. If the Kasper proposals for Eucharist for adulterers and others in illicit sexual unions are promoted by Pope Francis in his upcoming exhortation, worship will be distorted, fewer people will come to Holy Mass, confession will be less important and less frequent since the novelty of new church practice will show we can live in sin and still receive Communion without committing sacrilege. Those living in sin will use the church to justify their lives as good. Those looking for redemption will look elsewhere. More parishes will close. Fewer men will become priests. The church will unravel until she reverses the nonsense.

    • Ann Malley says:

      Exactly. For the question, “To what purpose?” will be answered with the falsehood that there is no purpose. Thank you, Fr. Perozich, for putting reality out there for folks to chew on.

  12. The Bishop’s one hour speech is on uTube for everyone’s access. A simply beautiful speech that everyone watching it will gain from. Bishop Barron most truly is another Bishop Sheen

    • Hey u…do u by any chance have a like to that uTube?

    • Bishop Baron gave many homilies at the world Eucharistic conference in Cebu, Philippines. They are all on youtube. He was the keynote speaker, spoke in interview form before thousands of people. He is the new Bishop Sheen of the new technology world. If he is so “uncatholic” as some on this site would suggest, why to people by the thousands show up for his talks, why do millions want to see and hear him, why can he publish daily blogs,and weekly homilies with such followings? Now, if we could get our Bishops to at least know how to get to their own emails ….

      • False. Bishop Sheen would never have contradicted Jesus.

        • Linda Maria says:

          Bishop Sheen was always an excellent and truthful teacher of our Catholic Faith! In Sheen’s era, people were more used to dealing with the sometimes-hard truths, of life, and of God, and religion! They were more realistic, with more adult thinking. Since the 1960’s, and Vatican II, many in the Church no longer truthfully deal with life, God, and religion! They are often very “babied,” unrealistically, in their life and thinking! They are often “youth”-oriented, self-centered, and shallow, with false beliefs of “entitlements” to everything, including beliefs about God and religion! LOVE Archbishop Sheen, always and forever!

          • Linda Maria says:

            Many people of today, want “comfort religion,” instead of the basic hard truths! We live in a false, modern, “science-enlightened” society, of many “quick and easy” fixes, to hard problems– some of which are very wrong! People today, are more ego-driven, ego-centric,”youth-forever”-oriented, convenience-oriented, and shallow! No strong belief in sin, no suffering, no pain, no bowing to a God– and no Christian morality to bow to, either! Many churchgoers may think, “I will surely be eligible to go to Heaven,” if I am just a reasonably nice, decent person!”

          • Linda Maria says:

            I do not mean to be too hard, on Bishop Barron. He has tried to be a very good priest, communicating our modern, post-Vatican II religion to others, as best as he can. I am sure he is sincere! But the Godless, pagan world of today, is so different! Quite a big challenge! Still, I am sure that Bishop Barron has done much good!

    • Are you talking about Barron’s video where he contradicts Jesus –
      Mt 7:13-14; Lk 13:23-28 ?
      ” Fr. Robert Barron on Whether Hell is Crowded or Empty – YouTube ” ?

      JESUS is God; JESUS is lot a liar.

  13. I just came back from an overnight retreat at Prince of Peace Abbey in Oceanside. The spiritual atmosphere at the Abbey moved me deeply and reminded me that God is very much present when people pray earnestly and live the faith unreservedly. This is “theo-drama”– to use Bishop Barron’s words– the drama of a soul being lifted up above earthly things to contemplate the divine. To be bold and smart, Excellency, is to preach on holiness as a continuous desire in the soul of one who would see the Lord (Heb. 12:14)

  14. The American bishops have long presided over and protected a cult of deviancy in their personal lives and the life of the Church. The laity sees compromised bishops who one per year give a Mass for the unborn and then go all out for Democrat immigration groups.

    Almost any observant Catholic in almost every diocese in the USA can easily produce a substantial list of major grievance against their bishop yet because he is the “sole proprietor” of the diocese as a corporation, he is immune except to lawsuits.

    Here in California, we are always on guard and don’t trust our children to any priest or nun. We’ve had enough of priests like Mahony, Shanley, Covas, and Schnexnayder—-all protected by “the Church.”

    • Beth B., that is why parents need to go to church themselves and see what is actually going on. Just dropping children off at some catechism class without knowing what is being taught, who is teaching it and how the children are protected does not “cut it”. Never has, still does not and never will. The chief teachers should be the parents themselves. Children, for the most part, copy what they see.

    • Beth B., you forgot Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Curry, Bishop Barron’s predecessor.

  15. It seems that most comments on here come from people who are sure they know better than our shepherds. Bishop Barron speaks of deep things in the faith, yet it seems that many cannot or will not listen or accept. Have we had problems in the Church? Yes. Is there a vocations crisis? Yes, somewhat, but how many of you are steering your son’s to the priesthood? Or your daughters to religious life? How many pray for your Bishops? Do you pray for your deacons? You can start by praying for me.

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      Rev. Mr. Moon, given the recent decades of doctrinal failure in the Catholic Church, your disparaging the open forum here at CCD (“… comments come from people who are sure they know better than their shepherds..”), doesnt serve your cause well.

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        Rev Moon, many in the clergy and episcopate equivocate on the natural law and marriage. There is a pervasive doubt that sometimes originates with the clergy about Christ’s presence in the sacraments, esp. in the Eucharist. There are endless attempts to re-write the Scriptures ( Look to yourself on that, where you claimed “Jesus had women disciples”, your comment re. John 13:5 & the 12 at the Last Supper, cf. 1/21/16 “Pope Francis Raises the Stakes..” CCD; R Moon comment dated 1/23/16—a completely false claim: no where does John’s Gospel, use the title “disciple” (Gr., mathaton) for a woman, not even the BV Mary. ): check it out.

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          Yes, Rev, Moon, there is chaos in the Church now: that is what drives the discussions here. But the veiled, virtual neo-clericalist attitude to “shut-up, you sheep!”–well, it doesnt have merit. The shepherds, at least a good number of them, seem to have no sense at all.

          • Linda Maria says:

            To Steve Phoenix– Do you know anything, about Bishop Barron’s tenure, as Rector, at Mundelein?? It was scary, reading all about our leading Catholic seminaries, in the book, “Good-Bye, Good Men!” I have often wondered, if Bp. Barron fixed any possible problems, which may have existed at his seminary, Mundelein, when he served there, as the Rector?? He has never mentioned this in his films, his Youtube series, the “Catholicism” series, his various media communications, or anything else I know of! I’ve wondered, of his possible actions, now, as an Auxiliary Bishop!

          • Is it absolutely beyond you to be civil and respectful to the clergy in your responses to Deacon Moon? [Yes, the Deacon IS a cleric.] Calling him “Rev. Moon” is a clear reference to the Korean cult leader, and is unnecessarily disparaging. If you don’t know who “Rev. Moon” is, you are woefully uninformed. If you do know, you are needlessly unkind. I’ll let you choose: which is it—are you a fool or a knave?

          • Ann Malley says:

            Thank you, caritas, for the much needed chuckle. Reverend Moon. I almost missed it.

            That said, Deacon Moon asked:

            “… how many of you are steering your son’s to the priesthood? Or your daughters to religious life? How many pray for your Bishops? Do you pray for your deacons? You can start by praying for me.”

            Solid Catholics pray for solid priests/religious every day. We DO steer our son’s to consider the priesthood and our daugthers to religious life – BUT NOT WITH A MIND TO GO ALONG TO GET ALONG in the mess of today. I cannot encourage my son to join a fray wherein he will be penalized for fostering the fullness of the Faith. So, Deacon, clean up the mess at home. Don’t dismiss it.

            If you don’t get that, you…

          • Ann Malley says:

            …should do some reading and exploring to find out why you don’t get that. For it is not a matter of merely ‘thinking’ one knows more than the ‘shepherds’, but it is a matter of the shepherd’s actions demonstrating a clear ignorance of the Faith and/or a disdain thereof.

            Place the blame where it belongs, Deacon. On leadership. You cannot stomp your foot and demand people follow when the crook is pointing to the cliff’s edge. We individual Catholics have a duty before God, too, and preserving the Faith and souls is at the top of the list.

            Try reading Extreme Ownership: How Navy Seas Lead and Win.

            There are no bad teams only BAD LEADERS!

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            I realize Oxymoronically-named “Caritas”, who in other posts, has regularly demonstrated his lack of any, sees venom in others, where none exists: his claims are specious, and a diversion.

            The point Oxymoron.. obscures is the clergy practice of some today to re-write Scripture. Again, Rev.Moon claimed Christ had “women disciples”, who were at the Last Supper. Yet no where in John’s Gospel is any specific woman ever called a “disciple” (Gr. “mathaton). Apparently Mr Oxymoron is fine with that falsehood: and Rev. Moon, too, who won’t correct it. QED.

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            As for Oxymoronically-named “Caritas” demonstrating by “example” his much-exalted sense of respect by hurling gratuitous insults himself (“..Are you a fool or a knave?”, he prates)—that speaks volumes about himself, discrediting any “caritas” therein.

            Again, we often have great supposed defenders of the clergy who, like Moon and Oxymoron, do their cause no good. They appear to deliberately divert attention from the issues named. Yet the chaos in the Church inexorably goes on: and many lije Oxymoron-“caritas” maintain the hostile-attack diversion-technique to try to silence opposing thought. It isn’t new: but it isnt motivated by “caritas”, that’s for certain.

        • God bless you, Steve Phoenix for always being on the ball! : )

          Deacon Raymond Moon says:
          January 23, 2016 at 6:54 am
          The text in John 13:5 says he washed his disciples feet. Jesus had women disciples, or do you think it was only the 12 at the last supper?

          Recently at a very wealthy parish in Newport Beach, Ca., a priest from USC was invited to speak and the gist of the talk was a push for women’s ordination. A woman confronted the priest after the talk and told him that women cannot be priests. The priest responded, “That is your opinion.”

      • Yes it does.

  16. Linda Maria says:

    Let’s have someone like Raymond Cardinal Burke, for our next Pope!!

    • I think the Cardinal Archbishop of Manila is considered a shoo-in.

      • Another one infected with “spirit of Vatican 2″….which I am positive will lead to another schism…the last thing the Church needs is another modernist who sees everything in terms of “mercy”

  17. Linda Maria says:

    I think we really need a very good, authentic Catholic Pope, and good, authentic Catholic prelates, to form a true, authentic, excellent Catholic Church– and then, to lead all the lay Catholic Faithful to Christ, as they should!

  18. Linda Maria says:

    It is really scary, to read all about Bishop Barron’s Mundelein Seminary, where he formerly served as Rector, in the book, “Good-Bye, Good Men!” Very SCARY!! Hopefully, Bishop Barron tried to fix these evils, related in that book, when he served, as Rector!!!!

  19. Michael McDermott says:

    When Father Baron’s series “Catholicism” first aired on PBS, the Church got a hugely positive presentation of its Basics, Notables and background to Scripture and Catholic Practices.

    The ongoing controversy about who will and will not have a “Reasonable Hope” to be Saved, and by what criterion God will Judge – Remains an issue that is often as divisive as it is unknowable.

    Still – for all that, Bishop Barron brought the Church up to date with modern media, producing an entirely watchable program – even for non Catholics… Many of whom may have moved on to Inquiry after becoming more informed.

    Goodness knows, I learned a lot – but hadn’t know where the gaps really were until ‘Catholicism’ opened my eyes to new vistas.

  20. If Bisop Barron wants to Make a real difference he could have Latin taught again at our Camarillo St. John’s Seminary. His area of influence is Santa Barbara/Ventura, which includes the LA Seminary.

  21. The winds of the world, the flesh and the devil are rapidly extinguishing the faint fumes left of the Catholic Church. Ave Maria Purrissima !

  22. FrMichael says:

    Prince of Peace Abbey is a treasure!

    Bishop Baron’s term “theo-drama” term comes from Von Balthasar, he the great proponent of universal salvation (but carefully mincing his words to avoid charges of heresy).

    Even when we heard good things from the mouths of bishops and priests, it always seems there is a little more to the story, no?

  23. Steve Phoenix says:

    Meanwhile, on a brighter note, many priests and religious ARE quietly—or doing their best to quietly do so—live out their calling of prayer and service to God Our Lord and His Church. A life well-lived, Sr. {Mary} Emmanuel of Bethlehem, of the Santa Clara Carmel, passed away this past Saturday:

    ..perhaps one hundred words, that’s all, to describe a profoundly dedicated Carmelite, not known to the world, but well-known to Our Lady and Our Lord (in my opinion).

  24. Catherine says:

    The earth is running on it’s axis due to the One, Holy, Supernatural Power,contained in all of the Tabernacles of the world. No more talking “fumes”! Unlike a crowded hell, Is it reasonable to remind Bishop Barron that all Catholic churches won’t be very crowded given the shamefully blasé treatment of the placement of Our Lord? Who used & still uses their authority to allow the hiding of the Master in His Own House?



    • Steve Phoenix says:

      Well-said and -quoted, Catherine. Traditional-oriented Catholics and officially “trad” Catholics, have a Copernican-shift view of where the Axis of the Universe rests.

      It leads to many of us quitting great jobs, breaking off associations, and changing one’s life entirely. The axis of the Universe is completely re-situated in one’s life.

  25. Catherine says:

    “Furthermore, there seems to be an almost desperate urgency on the part of some members of the liturgical bureaucracy to transform as many Catholic churches as possible into “gathering spaces” for “community celebration” as soon as possible—before any anticipated revisions to EACW or GIRM may halt the project. They know that it will be difficult and expensive for most parishes to undo any such “renovations”. The objective of many is to transform belief by transforming the place of worship, as well as the language of worship, the music for worship, and the entire enactment of the ritual itself. They are adamant in their purpose, and their influence is great.” continued….

  26. Catherine says:


    “So long as this situation exists, it appears that Catholics will have to continue the struggle to keep Jesus’ presence central and visible in their churches—not hidden in a closet.”

  27. Steve Phoenix says:

    Linda Marie, I don’t know that now-Bp Barron can be blamed for the horrors described in Michael Rose’s book, “Goodbye, Good Men” (pub. 2002), since he was only made Mundelein Seminary rector in 2012. Also, he was a Card. George associate, so despite the possibly well-founded criticisms of his “many-will-be-saved” position, he is likely trying to push the Church leadership in a positive direction.

    Two things: 1)when he was appointed bishop, in his letter thanking everyone in Chicago arch, he noticeably omitted Blaise Cupich’s name. 2) Thank God, he, a fairly credible New Church bishop, has said “the Church is running on fumes.” When any of the rest of us have said that, or much less, we were of course under…

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      …immediate hostile-suppressive-fire from the many chaaaritable-types filled with “caritas”.

      Too much truth is like hot lead in their ears.

      • Linda Maria says:

        Thanks for your excellent posts, Steve Phoenix! I appreciate it!

      • My, my! How you do go on. A bit touchy? Try getting a theological education before you shoot off your mouth. And don’t be transparently disingenuous: your repeated reference to Deacon Raymond as “Rev. Moon” was meant to belittle.

        • One more thing. Steve Phoenix (as in D. H. Lawrence’s playlet “I Rise in Flames, Cried the Phoenix”— look it up, Steve) resorts to the familiar tactic of those who substitute themselves for the Magisterium. They accuse those who disagree with them of holding things antithetical to the Faith, completely without basis. Example: in his 3 Feb post at 8.48 p.m., he writes that “Mr Oxymoron (that’s me) is apparently fine with that falsehood” taught by Rev Moon that Christ had women disciples. Say what? Show me where I ever said that I held that. Believing as you do about Rev. Moon, why did you belittle Deacon Raymond by calling him that name?

          • Ann Malley says:

            And you, caritas, are only operating via love? Hardly. The love you demonstrate is to play obtuse. If you had love for Deacon Moon perhaps you should have demonstrated it by redirecting him to focus on the problems within the Church and the rampant scandal of leadership that drives the flock away. That would be true charity.

            Instead, you skim the surface, seeking out the for-shame of name calling only to misdirect. Or perhaps to avoid the reality that leadership is doing much to drive away healthy sheep who require real food. And that desire for real food is God given, so you may want to back off as Our Lord has no desire to see His sheep starve for want of hierarchical Simon-says.

            Your treatment of the “magisterium” reminds…

          • Ann Malley says:

            … me of Our Lord defending his disciples. Try pondering this: Man was not made for the magisterium, caritas. Perhaps there is a little too much Martha water-carrying going on, Caritas, and too little choosing of the better part.

        • Ann Malley says:

          Sadly, what constitutes a ‘theological education’ these days translates to a lofty method of obfuscating if not outright lying, “caritas”. Our Lord Himself stated that we would know them by their fruits. So perhaps you should touch base with Him before shooting your mouth off to distract from common sense observations of a leadership gone wrong.

          That said, Deacon Moon belittles himself by attempting to shame the sheep for calling out cowardly shepherds. Tsk. Tsk. Good leaders review their performance when met with such a critique. Perhaps these admonishments and prayer will help the Deacon to grasp that simple wisdom.

          • Ann— I can’t speak for the theological education offered by others, but the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome grants doctorates which are universally highly regarded—inside and outside our Church.
            And why do you assume that I DON’T touch base with the Good Lord before (as you call it) “shooting off my mouth”. “Common sense observations” aren’t enough to cut the mustard on theological matters; to assert that makes no distinction between opinions and educated opinions. Equating the two is akin to suggesting it is not necessary to graduate from med school before doing brain surgery. Expertise is important.
            As for myself, I rest at ease when my theological opinions are in line with what the Magisterium teaches. Do…

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            And Ann, besides it best that you take Oxymoronically-named “caritas” advise to shut up, his excellent theological education includes that outstanding theologian, DH Lawrence, the pornographer-author of Lady Chatterley’s Lover, Sons and Lovers, Women in Love, and so on. This is a wise voice, a wise soul, Ann. Listen up!

          • Steve Phoenix says:

            And, Ann, also Mr. Oxymoron-caritas trumpets the great and noble “Pontifical Gregorian University” as issuing fine doctorates, no doubt where he studied for a time: the Greg is that fine institution where Rev. Krzysztof Olaf Charamsa, the renegade Polish priest who came out about his public intent to marry prior to the October Synod, obtained his Ph.D. and actually taught from 2009 on—one of the many heretical and apostate “teachers” within the “heart” of the Church. ‘

            Yes, listen to so-very charitable “caritas”, he is a wise head.

          • Read Ann Malley’s above posts. She charges me with preferring to accept Magisterial teaching rather than her aberrant views. Guilty as as charged. But she is sure she “has chosen the better part”. Really? Where does her authority to question the Magisterium come from? Not any depth of theological understanding, that’s apparent. From some Divine mission to authoritatively correct the Church, disclosed only to herself? From some innate wisdom that allows her to challenge its theological views although she has no theological education herself? [By the way, the last is a heresy called Gnosticism.]

          • Ann Malley says:

            ….then, caritas, with all due respect, why are those educated at the Greg not engaging in teaching and upholding the fullness of the Deposit of the Faith? By your intimation, they know better. That’s even more damning, friend. To know the truth, but to be silent while souls are lost and grievously misled is horrible. And exactly what is happening all around us.

            For while you posit that it is necessary to learn specific skills prior to operating on another’s brain, I say that it is gross negligence to have said skill and withhold it from those who are suffering only to pretend that all is well. The family of the now dead patient may not have the skill to understand the intricacies of brain surgery, but they are very well…

          • Ann Malley says:

            … equipped to see their loved one left DEAD and DAMNED for lack of true caritas.

            Your seeking to shame others for seeking aid in light of the neglect of those with “official” positions is equally spurious. Shame on you.

            Perhaps your understanding of love has been skewed by D.H. Lawrence. Women in Love. Says it all, friend.

          • Ann Malley says:

            “…Really? Where does her authority to question the Magisterium come from? Not any depth of theological understanding, that’s apparent.”

            Apparent only to you, caritas, because you predicate your huff on the agreed falsehood that the magisterium is something newly created every day. Unless of course you’re in the process of castigating your spiritual betters as you did regarding Seamless Garment. But I suppose without the official license to obfuscate, I’m not in your club. So where indeed!

            I did love the intimation of Gnosticism. Especially from a gentlemen so inclined toward civility. But it takes no special knowledge to discern that something is much amiss in the Church today, or rather with her Churchman…..or that…

          • Ann Malley says:

            … you suffer from a deflated ego. And all that with Greg credentials hiding in the desk drawer. Humph!

  28. As I wrote previously, many bishops tell the laity to go church hopping of Sunday and see what the non-Catholics have to offer. So we have switcheroo Sundays. This is happening, and is not fiction. With actions such as this, no wonder belief in the Blessed Sacrament has fallen. Except for the Orthodox Christians, the Catholic Church is the only church that believes Christ is present body, soul and divinity in the Sacred Host.

    • Pilar, while many Christian denominations think of Communion as a “representation” of the Last Supper, you are correct. Some, however, including Lutherans, believe that the bread and wine are turned into the true body and blood of Christ. While they call it a “meal” and not a sacrifice, they do believe it is Christ. Admittedly there is the question of transubstantiation and consubstantiation, but that is not as big a deal as it once was. In fact the Vatican has just released a prayer book for use during the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, to be used in joint prayer services.

      • Ann Malley says:

        …. further obfuscates Catholic teaching and all for the sake of “unity”. Perhaps a writ could be used to rehabilitate Satan, after all, all he wanted was to do his own thing. After all, contrary to what Scripture tells us, we must now follow blindly the blind to seek unity in error so we can all be on the journey to hell together. Can’t leave anyone behind!

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        Bob One, the parallel-universe you live in is not the reality, as measured by CARA-Georgetown and the Pew Research Center. You are right that “transubstantiation and consubstantiation” are “not as big a deal as it (sic) once was”—because only about 23% of Catholics attend Mass weekly—and of the roughly 70% who do not, 40-65% do not believe in the Real Presence (CARA survey 2008: it likely is much worse now):

        • Steve Phoenix says:

          We can look to the same failed leadership of many (no, not all, by any means) clergy and episcopate, to fail to teach the Sacraments as the Real Presence of Christ (Eucharist), or teach the natural law and traditional matrimony; and to re-interpret and re-write the Scriptures (“..Jesus had women-disciples at the Last Supper–Rev. Warren Moon) And you and your oxyoronically-charitable-associates are likely fine with accepting that. Silence gives consent (qui tacit consentire).

      • Bob One the Lutherans DO NOT BELIEVE in the Real Presence of Christ in Eucharist ..

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      And, Ann, also Mr. Oxymoron-caritas trumpets the great and noble “Pontifical Gregorian University” as issuing fine doctorates, no doubt where he studied for a time: the Greg is that fine institution where Rev. Krzysztof Olaf Charamsa, the renegade Polish priest who came out about his public intent to marry prior to the October Synod, obtained his Ph.D. and actually taught from 2009 on—one of the many heretical and apostate “teachers” within the “heart” of the Church. ‘

      Yes, listen to so-very charitable “caritas”, he is a wise head

      • Ann Malley says:

        …and yet on the other thread about the loveliness invited to SFU, caritas has the temerity to insist that he wants Universities to take the Faith as seriously as he does. Well, it would seem caritas has his wish.

        The ‘Greg’ is just as infested as any other institute that has sold the truth for what makes $$$. But so long as the blue collar crowd is cowed by the shiny promise of a university degree and ‘higher’ knowledge, they’ll be footing the bill for gender/queer studies, air guitar, vampire lore studies, and attempting to find ways to bring an ISIS Freedom Fighter to visit the university on someone else’s dime to educate the students as to the truth about cultural change ;^)

  29. Ann, what expertise do you have to oppose the teachings of the Church? And who gave you the mission to do so? Take your own advice. Touch base with the Lord before you accuse the Magisterium of error. Be humble and realistic about your very limited theological education. Quoting you, “[p]erhaps these admonitions and prayer will help you to grasp that simple wisdom”. Of course, no advice (however well-reasoned) will have any effect on you so long as you cleave to the SSPX, which Benedict XVI declared has no canonical mission in the Church.
    If you choose to respond, may I plead that you do so rationally, meeting the objections raised to your position, avoid red herrings, and without personal invective.

    • Steve Phoenix says:

      Ahh, yes, the wise Oxymoronically-named “caritas”, advises others to engage in discussion without “personal invective”, thou “fool or knave”(his favored non-invectives) and condescendingly advises the rest of us as to our “very limited theological education”, Mr. Oxymoron-caritas, that is magnificent. Filled with advice “caritas” doesn’t follow of course. It must be self-gratifying to be a Novus Ordo theological student: it is those stupid lay-people, you know.

      Now the agenda comes out: Mr Oxymoron. thinks I am “SSPX” (I am not) and wraps himself in the pro neo-clericalism of “shut-up, sit down, don’t question” which gave us decades of criminal and financial failure in the Church. (Where was chaaaritable-Mr…

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        …Oxymoronically-named “caritas” during those years of criminal and financial abuse that have left the Church a shambles? No doubt burnishing his credentials to ascend the chain of power. Ride on, horseman, destiny awaits!

        • Gee, Steve, make up your mind. First you call me an ultra-liberal, goaded by those heretics at the Greg, who is out to destroy all Tradition in the Church. In your latest post, you call me a 19th century tradition-bound clerical despot, a “neo-clericalist” of the pray, pay and obey school. Which is it? I can’t be both.

          • Ann Malley says:

            Gee, Caritas: Make up your mind.

            You can’t poo poo the logical questioning of theological experts who are expertly mincing the truth and then do the same yourself on another thread. You embody the stereotype of the 19th century tradition-bound clerical despot, but have chucked Catholic Faith and Morals in favor of a Peter, Paul and Mary love-in that pretends peace as it is shoves caritas down the throats of those strapped down to pay, pray, and obey.

            First lesson at the Greg should have been a reality check that the children are watching.

      • Steve— the post [5 Feb, 7.49 am] in which you mistakenly write that I accused you of SSPX affiliation appears immediately below my 4 Feb, 5.56 pm post—which was addressed to Ann Malley and not you. Ann has never made any secret of her SSPX affiliation. I never said or even hinted that you are affiliated with SSPX, because I don’t know.

        • Ann Malley says:

          ….and you have made no bones about your love of Greg credentials and how they interfere with your ability to discern reality because they are so well respected in the Church and out. Or do you believe that the Seamless Garment theory was made manifest by one with zero credentials and authority?

          What, pray, is your exalted and Greg approved view on the recent offering from the Vatican on the Church’s “official” mission to our Jewish brethren? What is your educated insight into this upcoming papal venture of extolling the beauteous fruits of the Protestant Reformation. Are Catholics, those with deep authoritative theological insight, supposed to forestall upholding and baptizing all nations now?

          Simon says………..but I…

          • Ann Malley says:

            …have Greg transcripts in my file cabinet!

            Go forth and promote theological malpractice elsewhere, caritas, even with your official stamp.

    • Ann Malley says:

      ….the truth could come from Balaam’s Ass, caritas. It’s not the tool that matters. Your animus against the SSPX or anyone for that matter with the chutzpah to speak the truth is made manifest.

      • No, Ann. My problem with you is that you believe it is YOU who have been singularly empowered to determine what the truths of the Faith are. You are sure fooling yourself. But not many others.

        • Ann Malley says:

          ….just because you feel yourself incapable of exercising the necessary judgment to avoid occasions of sin and error doesn’t mean others are trying to tell you what to do, caritas. The bee in your bonnet is your bee.

          Try owning it.

  30. The Lutherans believe in Christ’s presence ONLY if the person receiving IT believes. For them, if a non believer, or an animal were to receive the ‘host;, there would be no divine presence because the one receiving has no faith. On another note, the fumes are rapidly dissipating because of the strong winds emanating from the Vatican.

  31. The Gregorian University in Rome ceased being CATHOLIC at least fifty years ago. It is hot tub full of angry liberal modernists who wish to destroy the Catholic Church.

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