Archdiocesan paper pushes heretical parish for second week in a row

Ex-gay porn actor sends message to Most Holy Redeemer parish in San Francisco
Precious Blood fathers Jack McClure, left, and Matthew Link are the first non-archdiocesan priests in Most Holy Redeemer’s 115-year history. The Missionaries of The Most Precious Blood is a religious community that works to offer reconciliation and hope for anyone who feels rejected by society. (Photo by Christina Gray/Catholic San Francisco)

Precious Blood fathers Jack McClure, left, and Matthew Link are the first non-archdiocesan priests in Most Holy Redeemer’s 115-year history. (Photo by Christina Gray/Catholic San Francisco)

On July 18, CalCatholic reported on a long article in the July 17 issue of Catholic San Francisco, the newspaper of the Archdiocese of San Francisco, on the city’s notorious Most Holy Redeemer parish. The Catholic San Francisco author managed 1100 words on the parish without mentioning any of events that have made Most Holy Redeemer infamous worldwide.  Now, in a bizarre and perhaps unprecedented editorial decision, the July 24 issue of Catholic San Francisco will include the puff piece for the second straight week.

In the Catholic San Francisco article, the two Missionaries of the Precious Blood at the parish, Fr. Matthew Link, and Fr. Jack McClure said that seeing Most Holy Redeemer through its “media reputation as the nation’s largest ‘gay parish’” is short-sighted, implying  that the parish is not just about homosexuality. How right they are. While homosexuality must be the inevitable first word at Most Holy Redeemer, it is certainly not the last word.

51fvYa2SenL__SX330_BO1,204,203,200_In 2011 Professor Jerome P. Baggett published a book called Sense of the Faithful: How American Catholics Practice Their Faith. Baggett was then serving as an associate professor of religion and society at the Jesuit School of Theology in Berkeley, CA. Baggett studied the parishioners at six San Francisco Bay Area churches, to see how they understood their faith. The six churches were Most Holy Redeemer in San Francisco; St. Monica in Moraga; the dual parish of St. Mary/St. Francis de Sales in Oakland; St. Augustine in Pleasanton; St. Louis Bertrand in Oakland, and St. Margaret Mary in Oakland. Towards the end of the book, Professor Baggett published a helpful chart where parishioners answered a series of questions, prefaced by the question “Please tell me if you think a person can be a good Catholic without performing these actions or affirming these beliefs.”

Jerome Baguette,Sense of the Faithful author

Jerome P. Baggett, Sense of the Faithful author

Question 1 was: Can a person be a good Catholic without obeying the Church hierarchy’s teaching on birth control?  95% of those asked at Most Holy Redeemer said yes.

Question 2 was: Can a person be a good Catholic without going to Church every Sunday? 83% of those asked at Most Holy Redeemer said yes.

Question 3 was: Can a person be a good Catholic without their marriage being approved by the Church? 90% of those asked at Most Holy Redeemer said yes.

Question 4 was: Can a person be a good Catholic without believing in the infallibility of the Pope? 95% of those asked at Most Holy Redeemer said yes.

Question 5 was: Can a person be a good Catholic without obeying the church’s teaching against engaging in homosexual relations? 93% of those asked at Most Holy Redeemer said yes.

Question 6 was: Can a person be a good Catholic without obeying the church hierarchy’s teaching regarding abortion? 78% of those asked at Most Holy Redeemer said yes.

Question 7 was: Can a person be a good Catholic without believing that, in the Mass, the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Christ? 34% of those asked at Most Holy Redeemer said yes.

Question 8 was: Can a person be a good Catholic without believing that Jesus physically rose from the dead? 28% of those asked at Most Holy Redeemer said yes.

On every single question the largest percentage of parishioners repudiating Church teaching and, in the cases of questions 7 and 8, two of the most fundamental dogmas of the faith, were those from Most Holy Redeemer. The numbers were seldom close. The MHR parishioners’ negative responses to the faith were also far above the national averages, which Professor Baggett also included.

Joseph Sciambria in his younger years and today.

Joseph Sciambria in his younger years and today.

The following comes from a July 23 post by Joseph Sciambria on his blog, How Our Lord Jesus Christ Saved Me From Homosexuality, Pornography, and the Occult.

From a recent article which appeared in Catholic San Francisco about Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Parish in the Castro:

“We didn’t come here to change anybody,” said Father McClure who sat with Father Link near the parish’s memorial fountain where the founders of the parish’s 30-year-old AIDS Support Group ministry are honored, including ninth pastor Father Anthony McGuire. Behind them on a stone wall are the words of Corinthians 1: 13:13: “But now faith, hope, and love remain – of these three, the greatest of these is love.” [See California Catholic Daily‘s July 18 article].

Yet, as someone who lived through the horror of the AIDS epidemics of the 1980s and 90s, things are clearly not well in the Castro; and, to you Fr. McClure, they clearly need to change. A bit about myself: I dropped into San Francisco as a rather naive and impressionable young man in 1988; death was literally everywhere, but I had grown up tortured, teased, and alienated and I knew that I belonged in the gay community; there – I thought I would find comfort and understanding. What I did find were hundreds of older gay men willing to be a surrogate father, willing to take me home and have sex with me, but not very willing to offer anything else.

In San Francisco, we came searching for a new family and a new home. For myself, it seemed to work for a while; then, I could no longer tolerate the endless and meaningless hook-ups, the sense of emptiness that never went away, and the mindless plague that was all around me. I started to think that something needed to change. Then, for some strange reason, I went to talk to a Catholic priest; I knew little about him, but I quickly surmised that he found nothing that was objectionable in the gay lifestyle. He told me to me to stay put, that I was who I was, and to try to settle down with one guy. In hindsight, he could have been sending me back to my death, but I never contracted HIV and I survived.

Eventually, I burned out from my repeated attempts at happiness. Figuring that I had nothing to lose, I went back to the Church: I received absolution and reassurance that I was making the right decision from a kindly and humble priest. Yet, right away, I wondered what future there was for me – after all, I am gay; Aren’t I? Where am I to go? What am I to do? I felt lost, as I belonged nowhere. Then, one night, while looking for any ray of hope – I scanned the internet and found out about Courage. I attended my first meeting in San Francisco, a city that I didn’t want to return to, but again I needed friends and male companionship. For a time, it was an oasis: everyone there shared my new found realization that homosexuality was a literal dead-end and that we needed something else- namely God. At the same time, I read: books by Father John Harvey and Dr. Joseph Nicolosi. Surprisingly, I wasn’t alone – there were thousands of men who similarly found the gay lifestyle shallow, empty, and ultimately self-destructive. I remembered that priest: did he even attempt get to know me? Why didn’t he ask if I had been molested? Or if I had been abused or neglected? But, he sent a damaged boy back to a life that was clearly out of control. Didn’t I deserve to know the Truth? That I did have choice.

When Father McClure first arrived at Most Holy Redeemer, I contacted both him and Father Link; I had a proposal: a short presentation about my experiences and about Courage; I assured them, I was not there to judge or to tell anyone that their lifestyle was wrong or evil; that’s their decision to make – not mine. I simply wanted to present an alternative; that they did not have to live this way. I was turned down.

Dear Father McClure: you state that you didn’t come to Most Holy Redeemer to “change” anyone, but things need to change. According to the San Francisco AIDS Foundation: “Almost one in four gay or bisexual men in San Francisco is living with HIV and 86% of new HIV diagnoses are among gay and bisexual men…In 2013, there were 359 newly diagnosed HIV cases…Of those newly diagnosed with HIV in 2013, nine in 10 (91%) identified as male, 86 percent were men who have sex with other men, a majority (54%) were between 30-49 years old.” How many have to become infected? And how many have to die before you realize that the status-quo is no longer sustainable? You rightly heralded the history of charity and Christian generosity at Most Holy Redeemer, as I stated some of my friends were given funerals at Most Holy Redeemer when no one else would do it, but when are we going to stop burying people? When is enough enough? It needs to change and it needs to change now. Unlike what happened to me, these men should be given the choice: allow Courage at Most Holy Redeemer.

Your friend in Christ: Joseph Sciambra

 

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  1. Anonymous says:

    It’s rather hilarious that Archbishop Cordileone’s VERY OWN NEWSPAPER would run this same article, two weeks in a row.
    I’ve never seen this happen before, so I’m wondering if the Archbishop is trying to get a message across?

    • Finley Lewis says:

      Was the same article published twice in the print edition of Catholic San Francisco? I recall seeing an article (I forget what about) in two consecutive editions of the paper–except somewhere it was noted that one edition was online only. (I do not receive the print edition.)

      If the article appeared in two print editions that certainly does send a strange message.

      • Anonymous says:

        Yes, (this is the same person who posted right before you on July 23), the print edition came out with this article two weeks in a row, no pun intended.
        I’ve never seen this happen before, so I can only assume they were low on news, or someone made a mistake.
        I now truly doubt the Archbishop was trying to get any message across, because he’s certainly not pro-gay, and also he’s probably away on vacation.

  2. mike magee says:

    I would think the good Archbishop is the proper authority to opine whether a parish, or members thereof, are heretical.

  3. St. Christopher says:

    Well, these people — that is those supporting MHR — are simply non-Catholics, or CINOs.

    But, the Vatican — and Abp. Cordileone, apparently — seem fine with this. At some point, one needs to let them go, as the Father let the wayward son have his inheritance, knowing he would lead a life of debauchery (and hoping that he would return). Of course, the return demands repentance and confession, something homosexuals, and enablers, reject. Enjoy the afterlife!!

  4. Steve Seitz says:

    This man has a powerful yet simple message of truth. Achbishop Cordielone should make him a lay administrator at the parish and place him in charge of ministry.

    • Steve Seitz says:

      In case I wasn’t clear, the man that I was referring to (above) was Joseph Sciambria.

      • Anonymous says:

        Thanks, Steve: I thought you were referring to Mike Magee.

        • Steve Seitz says:

          Anon: I made the clarification because I realized that there were two articles and that some people might get confused to whom I was referring.

          🙂

  5. Steve Phoenix says:

    No more damning words than these:

    ” I went to talk to a Catholic priest; I knew little about him, but I quickly surmised that he found nothing that was objectionable in the gay lifestyle. He told me to me to stay put, that I was who I was, and to try to settle down with one guy. In hindsight, he could have been sending me back to my death, ” – Joseph Sciambria

    Ah yes, how well we know this “confessional counseling”. So much easier to “go with the flow.” Expect to hear it again, often, at the Last Judgment.

  6. Kudos to Joe Sciambra, a courageous and good person.

  7. Michael McDermott says:

    Dear Father McClure: you state that you didn’t come to Most Holy Redeemer to “change” anyone, but things need to change.

    According to the San Francisco AIDS Foundation: “Almost one in four gay or bisexual men in San Francisco is living with HIV and 86% of new HIV diagnoses are among gay and bisexual men…
    In 2013, there were 359 newly diagnosed HIV cases…Of those newly diagnosed with HIV in 2013, nine in 10 (91%) identified as male, 86 percent were men who have sex with other men, a majority (54%) were between 30-49 years old.”

    How many have to become infected?
    And how many have to die before you realize that the status-quo is no longer sustainable?

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Mr. Mcdermott, if you are genuinely concerned about the transmission of HIV, perhaps you would support increased funding of life-saving HIV drugs in Africa? Increased testing of men and women for HIV, and followup treatment for those who do? For the use of PreP? These are proven strategies for reducing transmission of HIV.

      • YFC –
        I support spending funds – both governmental, and public service announcements from the private sector –
        to veraciously Teach and Encourage ABSTINENCE from SEXUAL activity
        except by those who are married – one man to one women who procreate for the future good of our Country.
        This abstinence training must include all accurate information about SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASE.
        From the CDC web site – QUOTE: Abstinence:
        The most reliable way to avoid infection is to not have sex (i.e., anal, vaginal or oral). UNQUOTE.
        Those who get an STD due to their own free-will sexual actions, should pay for their own medical bills.
        Everyone must take responsibility for their own actions.
        HOMOSEXUAL ACTS, Adultery, Fornication, are…

        • cont. – HOMOSEXUAL ACTS, Adultery, Fornication, are all Mortal Sins that send un-repenting Souls to Hell for eternity.

          Again – Those who get an STD due to their own free-will sexual actions, should pay for their own medical bills.
          Everyone must take responsibility for their own actions.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Amen to that SANDRA!

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            How about those who get skin cancer because of their own free will they spent too much time in the sun. Or smokers and their enormously higher rates of cancer and heart disease. Or those who have accidents because of their own free will they drove a car. Or those who become injured in unjust wars but who willingly volunteered to join the army?

            Do you suppose that insurance shouldn’t pay for these cases either?

  8. Michael McDermott says:

    I do so wish the moderators would enable us to simply filter the Personal Ad-Hominem (against the person) Harassment by ‘anonymous homosex harpies’ on these boards.

    A simple ‘ignore’ button would eliminate so much useless drivel spammed on the message board and used to distract from otherwise valid exchanges.

    I ‘Scroll Past the Troll’ and ignore the ‘Resident Harpies’ as a matter of course, particularly when they play ‘pretend familiar’ with personal names as part of the propaganda / disruption campaign – but it would be so much simpler to be able to screen out their dumping and let those who want to be bothered subscribe to the delivery service.

    • Virginia says:

      “I do so wish the moderators would enable us to simply filter the Personal Ad-Hominem (against the person) Harassment by ‘anonymous homosex harpies’ on these boards.”
      Well, well, well, Michael McDermott: you complain about people not being nice to you, and then you call them “homosex harpies.”

      • Michael McDermott says:

        Yes Virginia – Homosexualit ‘Resident Harpies’ are Real, and Constantly attack this board and those who post on it…

        Not to be ‘Nice’ or ‘Un-Good’ to me personally – but to Try to Start Personal Flame wars so as to disrupt and distract from this fine forum.

        Allowing Filtering of those here to Disrupt the board improves things for all of us (which they don’t want) and would allow you to ignore me just as freely.

        So – you missed the point (purposely or not) -My concern is the message board working well – not interacting with Flamers who try to disrupt it BAMN – By Any Means necessary

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Mister McDermott purports that anyone who disagrees with him, or who shows the slightest bit of intellectual rigor opposed to what he says, is a “homosex harpie”. Thus illustrating his own harping upon homosexuality, and the complete inability to actually debate the issues with proven facts or real logic. Reach back to the beginning of this thread, and you will see what I mean.

      • Virginia … Though I usually don’t agree with him, or sometimes even understand what he posted, I’ve always tried to be nice to Michael.

  9. “I remembered that priest: did he even attempt get to know me? Why didn’t he ask if I had been molested? Or if I had been abused or neglected? But, he sent a damaged boy back to a life that was clearly out of control.”

    –If Cardinal Dolan were standing nearby at the time, he would undoubtedly have encouraged Mr. Sciambra with a hearty “Bravo!”

    • Anonymous says:

      No, Cardinal Dolan would not. Please tr to be a little more Christian.

      • Why do you suppose His Eminence would be any less encouraging to Mr. Sciambra than he was to University of Missouri football star Michael Sam whom he regaled with an enthusiastic “Good for him!” upon his announcement that he was a proud and active homosexual? The only difference I see between the two cases is that Mr. Sciambra is a Catholic who continued to embrace the gay lifestyle after seeking the counsel of a priest who in turn gave it his blessing. Are you suggesting that Dolan is only concerned about the souls of Catholics while not caring a whit about those of Protestants, secularists, and others?

        http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/03/cardinal-dolan-in-this-age-it-is.html

        • Anonymous says:

          No. Cardinal Dolan is known for his teachings on chastity. Just because someone sandbagged him in a TV interview does not mean he supports sexual sin.

          • If an interviewer flimflammed the cardinal into saying the opposite of what he believes, he has a moral duty to his flock to set the record straight. If you can find a place where he says that he actually meant that Sam’s behavior was shameful and not to be applauded, than I will publicly apologize to the man. Until then, I have no reason to believe that he wouldn’t approve of Mr. Sciambra being sent back into sinful lifestyle by a fellow priest. If there is anyone guilty of not being Christian here, it is Cardinal Dolan.

      • Steve Phoenix says:

        Mornac is quoting Card. Dolan who, in an interview on the TV show “Meet the Press” (3/7/2014), unambiguously congratulated pro-football player, Michael Sam, on coming out. Dolan literally and quite emphatically said, “Bravo: God bless you!” regarding Sam’s announced sexual preference.

        So, in point of fact, Mornac is exactly accurate: In fact, as a precedent, Card. Dolan has already praised a person’s practice of homosexual behavior. So, it is equally likely Dolan would have praised Mr. Sciambria. Facts are stubborn things.

        • Anonymous says:

          I know what he is referring to. If you know anything about TV interviews, you will give him a break. He does not support any sexual sin.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Cardinal Dolan congratulated the football player for being honest about himself. If you would prefer that the football player lie about himself, then you would have a point. Or maybe that IS your point. However, To tell a lie is to sin. SO are you asking Cardinal Dolan to congratulate a lie, rather than a truth-telling?

          • Ann Malley says:

            …there is also scandal, YFC, wherein the revealing of one’s private affairs is not advisable. Parading about one’s sexual sins as a badge of honor is nothing but attention/approval seeking. Or do you believe that one’s sexual inclinations are something that should be weighted for consideration in the NFL?

            If you do not, then there would be no lie involved in folks keeping their inclinations to themselves. Cardinal Dolan knows this and so his, “Bravo,” is equally scandalous. One would think a man of the cloth would be better suited to council one to not parade his private affairs.

          • Canisius says:

            You can always count on YFC to miss the bigger picture, as in the salvation of the souls of Michael Sams ( the player in questions) who BTW was not good enough to make the NFL to the shock the gay mafia in the country, but I hear he is playing the Canadian Football League…

          • Really? So if a football player who is cheating on his wife decides to publicly proclaim that fact along with his intent to continue the affair in vigor because he is unashamed of it, you’d find nothing wrong with the cardinal declaring,”Bravo! Good for him.”

          • Anonymous says:

            So what did you want Cardinal Dolan to say? Coming out as gay is not a public admission of having committed sodomy or any other sexual sin. It just means that you are predominantly attracted to the same sex and for some people who are same sex attracted, it does not mean a sexual thing at all. The reasons that people feel the need to come out in a public way vary. A person coming out is not saying “I just had sex.”
            Cardinal Dolan’s answer, while pressured, did not approve of sex outside of sacramental marriage.

  10. Steve Golay says:

    “I remembered that priest: did he even attempt get to know me? Why didn’t he ask if I had been molested? Or if I had been abused or neglected? But, he sent a damaged boy back to a life that was clearly out of control.”

    That’s because, we are told, any homosexual conduct and contact is by definition a positive. One must force the logic of the thing: one can’t say that this aspect of homosexuality is good and that bad,- not after God and the Natural Law has said that the whole thing is rot.

  11. Steve Golay says:

    I’ll be popping in to the Black Cat Bar (700 block, Montgomery Street, S.F.) in a day or two. I’ll ask around if anyone knows about the hack job. The habituates & destitutes at that place seem to be well informed.

    Thanks for posting, once again, something from Joseph S. Joseph stands at the temple gate warning. And to think, after all this time, that the Catholic Left, since the Great Catholic Haight-Ashbury of long passing, have assumed that only they possess propriety rights on the prophetic word!

    I love San Francisco. Adore her greatly. Someday she will leave the whoredom of her prodigality and rewed her man-hood.

    There is nothing prophetic about homosexuality except its disorder, and the heap of disordered lives it creates.

    • Steve …. I looked up the Black Cat Bar on Google. It seemed to have closed more than 50 years ago. If you have the power to re animate closed bars, a lot of my SF girlfriends would be greatfull if you could bring bak the Lexington Club which closed earlier this year. It was the last lesbian bar in SF. I was there once. Good place.

  12. Anonymous says:

    I am sorry for your experience, Joseph and glad that the Lord saved you. Perhaps a neighboring parish will take your COURAGE group.

  13. Wow, another Cal-Catholic article designed to inflame their predominantly older, ultra- conservative readers. So, let me help with the “mystery” of the two articles – there was only one article. It first appeared in the digital edition of Catholic SF and the same article appeared in the print edition. Why is that concept difficult for the anonymous writers of this article to understand?

    As a long time member of MHR, I was not aware of any survey being conducted by Professors Baggett. Therefore, while the survey results do not surprise me, I must question the number of parishioners he contacted for his survey.

    Would the anonymous writers of this article help me to understand how the inclusion of the 30+ year old sad story about Mr…

    • Virginia says:

      JimS, dear, don’t assume all older people are KKK members.
      I’m old and a member of MHR and LOVE the parish and the people!
      The spirit of true Christian fellowship, the song (all those men’s voices raised in praise), the outreach to folks in need (young helping old, healthy helping sick, able-bodied helping those of us who need help even getting to church, the weekly dinners for the homeless), these are a few of my favorite things.
      Plus the sense of humor, which one absolutely MUST have in being a Catholic today, with so many people attacking not only our parish for being too “liberal” but also attacking the Vicar Of Christ for being too liberal.

    • Jim …. I suspect the answers MHR people gave were similar to a lot of parishes nationwide. At my own parish, I would think the under 50 group ( about 1/3 of us) might answer somewhat the same. I wonder what the demographics of the other parishes he surveyed are like.

  14. Continuation of an earlier post –
    Would the anonymous writers of this article help me to understand how the inclusion of the 30+ year old sad story about Mr. Sciambria as a gay prostitute is relevant to a story about MHR? I am glad to hear that he was able to get out of that lifestyle – however, it seems to have left him emotionally damaged.

    • Steve Seitz says:

      JimS: I was not the writer of the article, but I can show the linkage. Mr. Sciambria, was psychologically wounded in childhood. These wounds left him vulnerable and predisposed him to the gay lifestyle with its tendency of sexual objectification and emotional ambivalence. In regard to emotional ambivalence, the homosexual dynamic is not really about love of the same sex: It’s actually about love/hate of the same sex. This ambivalence develops from a lack of sufficient bonding with the same sex parent.
      [To be continued]

    • Steve Seitz says:

      [Continued from previous]
      Therefore, the love and drive towards the same sex is actually a subconscious attempt to heal the wound, but it’s continually sabotaged by the desire to attack the hurtful love source. Therefore, homosexual relationships tend to be either highly unstable or loaded with emotional drama. Neither of these scenarios is healthy and leaves the actors damaged. This dysfunctional scenario is further exacerbated by the male’s seemingly natural desire to sexually objectify others. Thus, in a nutshell, I’ve explained Mr. Sciambria’s woundedness and its connection with the Castro and MHR.

      • Steve Golay says:

        Dear MHR Folks,

        Asus.ing you do not accept this a analysis nor identify with Joseph S. Why you, here, explain why? Or has it now become a sign of bad manners (or, soon illegal) to discuss the eitology of homosexuality – the how and why homosexuality enters a life and (according to the CCC) mutates it into great psychological and moral disorder.

        When, at MHR, was the last time a homily was given on the disorder of homosexuality? Here,at the Black Cat Bar, downtown, it’s not all the difficult to get a conversation going on such. One has only to go to the backroom, look in the mirror, to eyeball it.

        As for humour, I would say that the SCOTUS ruling last June 26 was the death of camp. Homosexuality has become very serious business…

        • Steve Golay says:

          . . .Homosexuality has become very serious business. “Gay Pride” parades will now be about goosestepping and blackbooting into the lives of others – and the doctrine of the Church.

          • Most homosexuals are VERT INTOLERANT of the religious beliefs of others.

          • Paul….. What makes you think that. I’m a homosexual and although I’m a proud Roman Catholic I have friends who are mainstream protestant, Evangelical, Jewish (Orthodox, Conservative and Reform) and Eastern Orthodox. I respect their adherence to their beliefs and they mine. If you think about it, because we gays have been oppressed, it makes sense that we would be tollerent of others.

          • Canisius says:

            C&H Oppressed really? were you dragged out of your bed in the middle of night by the secret police and forced to the confess to crimes you did not commit. Did you watch your family be shot in the street in the name of being counter-revolutionaries, were hauled down the ministry of Truth for writing a poem that displeased the authorities.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Canisius, LGBT people are subjected to violent, oppressive hate crimes on a regular basis. I can’t speak for C&H but most of us have had eggs thrown at us, been beaten up, or worse.

          • Canisius says:

            YFC I was subject to brutal violence at the hand of a lesbian, so I really don’t care.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            We know, Canisius, that you had a horrible childhood, and there is no excuse for what you were subjected to. But to then extrapolate your experience to all other same sex parents, and to then claim that you don’t have to care about anybody else…that is where you go off the rails and cease becoming Christian in your approach to these issues.

          • Anonymous says:

            Canisius, how is she?

          • Canisius says:

            YFC I believe in collective guilt and don’t you tell me that I cease to be Christian.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Canisius, collective guilt is not a part of catholic teaching. Number one. Number two. Even collective guilt has to have some notion that people remotely connected to the crime are to share the blame. You can’t claim “collective guilt” and then go on punishing people who were born after your own parents. The only kind of guilt passed on from generation to generation is Original Sin, washed away by Baptism. Unless you want to start your own religion.

          • Canisius says:

            YFC sodomy is not part of Catholic teaching either, something you promote so if you want to play the judgment game.

          • Canisius says:

            Anon… she suffers from many ailments at her late stage in life… God’s justice may be slow but it grinds it exceeding small… Deo Gratias

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Nowhere does CCC offer an “eitology” of homosexuality, or any explanation for its genesis. Because it can’t.

          Nobody has said it is bad manners to discuss it. You made that up.

          As you did more commentary supposedly from CCC when you say “the how and why homosexuality enters a life and (according to the CCC) mutates it into great psychological and moral disorder”. Nowhere in CCC is homosexuality called a psychological and moral disorder. Mutation is not in the CCC lexicon about homosexuality. And nowhere in modern secular science will you find it called that either.

          • Steve Golay says:

            The CCC is tagging something a disorder, what is it? “Disorder”, by definition, incorporates the notion that something has been misdirected, waylaid, mutated, perverted from its original nature and direction (as in unfolding the ends of that nature). To say that the Church has no interest in understanding the origins and causes of disorder (that is to say, sin) to vacate it of its primary task, to seek out and truth and all its implications and consequences.

            The dark lord of silence has bludgeoned our common human curiosity. The regulation that we must never discuss the causes and origins of homosexuality has infects the who9le body politic, including the Church. That is a dangerous position to take, if only because it restricts and…

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Steve Golay, you seem to be confusing the common secular use of the word “disorder” with its use in theology. There is no notion of “mutation” and all the rest of it in the theological word “disorder”.

          • Canisius says:

            YFC, not only does Russia tolerate religion but it endorses the Orthodox Faith, Putin has rebuilt every church destroyed by Stalin.

        • Canisius ….I was never personally oppressed. A little social ostacism but not much. I was lucky. You describe exactly how gay men were treated in the USSR before Yeltsin abolished Sec. 121 of the USSR Criminal Code. A friend of mine did her thesis on it.

          • Canisius says:

            Happily Mother Russia does not tolerate gays because the Church is strong…something you fail to see

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Mother Russia didn’t tolerate either gays or religion for most of the last century, lest you forget.

      • Steve Seitz…..All I can say is that being gay myself, my experiece and that of lesbians and gay men I know really well just don’t fit the convoluted theory you laid out. Where did you come up with it? Your own experience as a gay man? Talking with LGBT people in your family or close, close friends, or did you read it in the right wing, homophobic blogesphere?

        • Steve Seitz says:

          C&H: I don’t think I’ve had the pleasure of writing to you thus far. The theory that I outlined is the work of Dr. Elizabeth Moberly as presented in Fr. John Harvey’s book, “The Homosexual Person: New Thinking in Pastoral Care.” Fr. Harvey founded Courage, a Catholic ministry to homosexuals, and his book is still in print. His book is not about the psychological causes as much as it is about the pastoral care of homosexuals within this context. Since the publication of his book in 1987, the field has advanced, and updates to this theory can be found at http://www.narth.org.
          [1 of 3, Continued]

          • Steve … I don’t believe we know what determines sexual orientation. As a Catholic, I believe that God, in His infinite wisdom decided that in every generation, a small number of his children will be attracted to their own gender rather than, like the majority, their own.
            Let me suggest that rejecting the mainstream mental health professional groups in favor of NARTH, based on stories that the “evil gay conspiracy” “infiltrated” them isn’t a good idea. NARTH was founded by man who wrote a dissertation which included human experimentation and, today would be considered child abuse. Here’s a story on him.
            http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/07/sissy.boy.experiment/
            Also, here’s an interview with a guy who is an absolute quack
            https://www

        • Steve Seitz says:

          Regarding my own experience, I’m not a homosexual. However, I’ve met a homosexual man with Courage who gave testimony about the homosexual dynamic. I’ve also spoken once with Dr. Joseph Nicolosi who is on the vanguard of work in this area. I’ve also once lived in a community with a large number of homosexuals and, unfortunately, observed the same-sex ambivalence when two of them developed an infatuation with me. I’ve also had other observations and heard other testimonies and comments over my lifetime including, of course, Mr. Sciambria’s.
          [2 of 3, Continued]

          • Steve .. Let me suggest that if you’re this interested in gay issues, you might go beyond meeting with a single gay who gave “testimony” and get to know gay people..including women on a social basis. I’ll tell you right now that the “lifestyle” of a couple of lesbian soccer moms will be a lot different than the that of Mr. Sciambra. In my won case I had my first crush on a girl, Ann, in 3rd Grade. I’ was never romanticly in to boys and came out in high school. I never had the problems YFC tells about above, probably because I had 6 protective older brothers.

        • Steve Seitz says:

          From what I can tell, there are also other causes of homosexuality. I once spoke with a man who developed the issue by looking at his father’s “muscle” magazines as a teenager. And I’ve heard the testimony of others who became homosexual as a result of incest/rape.

          Gay propaganda, on the other hand, states that there is one and only one cause: a genetic one. But this is plainly false. And I strongly suspect that many who parrot this line publically tell different stories in private. The work of Moberly, on the other hand, deals with truth and gives great hope to suffering people. The gay lifestyle, in the end, gives something else.
          [3 of 3, End]

          • Steve … I’ll trust my own antidotal experience over academics and pseudo-academics who may have an agenda. I was never molested. The only thing unusual about my childhood was the hectic nature of as very large family. When I’ve shared growing up and coming out stories with LGBT friends, the traumatic and dysfunctional family meme is rare. I thought it was cute about the gay guys being attracted to you I and just about every lesbian has had straight guys hit on them. It happened to n me again last week. He was very sweet.
            Once more…If you’re so interested in us, get to know a bunch of on a social human basis

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            C&H is right on that you could try to get to know a few real gay people, and I would invite you to get to know a longterm gay couple or two, even a pair who got married.

            I also suggest that you sit down with a person who has been deeply damaged by the ideas or even the practice of Dr. Nicolosi. I have done that. It is nothing short of emotional blackmail and child abuse, and that is why he is prohibited from inflicting his theories on children in the State of California.

        • Steve Seitz says:

          Dear C&H: Instead of responding at only one posting location, you responded to all three of mine which has made a small mess of the thread. It also may have made it difficult for me to find a reply point. It might be better in the future if you make multiple responses at the same posting location. 🙂

        • Steve Seitz says:

          C&H: Ideas stand or fall on their merits. Your attack on a founder of NARTH is logically flawed because it doesn’t attack the idea. Regarding friends and anecdotal evidence, I didn’t give an exhaustive account of all my contacts and information. But the problem with your anecdotal evidence is that it doesn’t take into account psychological denial, which is fairly prevalent and often severe in most adults. In fact, coming out of denial and learning the truth about one’s past is central to psychotherapy. It would be accurate to say that the greater the abuse, the great the fantasy of having a good childhood.
          [1 of 3, Continued]

        • Steve Seitz says:

          But I’m going to skip the rest of my argument and get down to brass tacks. You spoke of God. The mystery of suffering is just that: a mystery. God does not create evil but he does allow it to occur. Regardless of how you acquired the orientation, God is calling you to conversion and to resist it either through suffering or through other holy means. We all, including myself, have serious defects and suffer as a result. I could choose not to suffer, but the world would be a more evil place and I would be less like Christ. Hitler had serious defects. But he chose not to suffer and, instead, justified himself. Where do you think Hitler is today?
          [2 of 3, Continued]

        • Steve Seitz says:

          Here are some objective truths. Despite the existence of homosexuality in the ancient world, Judaism strongly condemned it. The sacred Old Testament writers were inspired to condemn it as we know from Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus condemned sexual evil which included homosexual acts. Saint Paul and other writers explicitly condemned it with the strongest words. The Church condemns it. It’s contrary to both nature (i.e. the penis is not biologically made for the anus) and natural selection. And there are psychological theories which have finally learned how it develops.

          C&H, God is gently calling you to conversion. I wrote this because the world is passing away, and I don’t want you to pass away with it.
          [3 of 3, End]

          • Steve…God is calling all of us to conversion. I fight constantly against my quickness to anger and judge others as well as using foul language when I’m frustrated.. These are serious spiritual problems I pray about. I’m sure you have your own set which you pray about. In my case, however, I don’t believe that God wants me to convert from to being left handed, slightly dyslectic, ………or homosexual.

  15. Anne T. says:

    Yes, God bless Joseph Scriambria, and may He keep him in His good graces. If Joe saves just one life by telling the truth, it will have been worth it I am sure. I hope he saves many more from such dangerous and unhealthy activities..

    May God give him wisdom, the attendant at His throne.

  16. Send this article to Abp Cordileone.

  17. Regarding Homosexuals –

    SACRED SCRIPTURE: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10 ; 1 Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7.
    DOCTRINE of the FAITH: CCC – # 2357, 2358, 2359, & 2396.

    All Catholics must adhere to these or they are heretics and schismatics – per Church definition # 2087.

  18. CONGREGATION for the DOCTRINE of the FAITH
    ” SOME CONSIDERATIONS CONCERNING the RESPONSE to LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS on the NON-DISCRIMINATION of HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS ”
    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19920724_homosexual-persons_en.html
    # 2 ” Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered towards an intrinsic moral evil;
    and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder. “

  19. Maryanne Leonard says:

    This article asks for Courage to be brought into Most Holy Redeemer, which would help our fellow Catholics to deal with the sinful temptations they feel the desire to understand and overcome. Would we turn our backs on our fellow human beings as they try to follow the light as shown to us by Our Lord Jesus Christ and still call ourselves faithful Catholics?

  20. Michael McDermott says:

    SSAD (same sex attraction disorder) is the spark that ignites physically harmful and pathological disease spreading behaviors amongst some Men, burning ever brighter with newer treatment resistant strains being created constantly under the pretense of Love.
    But the Misandry (Hatred of Men & Boys, Masculinity & Normal Heterosexuality) of the ‘Big Happy’ Alliance is just as central to their Anti-Catholic Campaigns, and they care little for those harmed by their hedonism.
    SEE
    New HIV cases soar in Florida
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fl-hiv-cases-increase-20150724-story.html

    The number of reported HIV cases in Florida has jumped 23 percent so far this year, the biggest increase in a continuing upward trend…

    The most…

  21. Michael McDermott says:

    New HIV cases soar in Florida
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fl-hiv-cases-increase-20150724-story.html

    The number of reported HIV cases in Florida has jumped 23 percent so far this year, the biggest increase in a continuing upward trend…

    The most common way in which the disease is contracted is still through male-to-male sexual contact… 78 percent of all new cases in Florida in 2014, a percentage that has risen significantly since 2012, which keeps with national trends…

    An “other” category, which includes people who get the disease through blood transfusions or from birth by an HIV-infected mother, has dropped to almost nothing

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      So, therefore, by your logic, male-to-male sexual realtions was just fine before about 1950, when the HIV came on the scene?

    • Michael … May I ask why, when you write about homosexuality you seem to allways refer to men. Don’t we lesbian women count

  22. For those interested in the issue of gay people and our parents, you might check this out.
    http://sexualauthenticity.blogspot.com/2014/05/for-all-good-moms-and-dads.html

    FYI the writer considers herself gay. Is an orthodox Catholic, is married to a man and has 7 children.

  23. Linda Maria says:

    Wouldn’t it be just wonderful, if the priests of Most Holy Redeemer parish, would start a strong program, similar to “Courage,” to help the “LGBT’s” fully convert to Christ, and stay chaste, lifelong?? Think of all the souls that would be saved! Think of all the lives that would be saved, too, from AIDS, and similar diseases! And think of the HUGE positive impact, on the Castro District, and on all of San Francisco– and the rest of the world! Christ and His Most Blessed Mother, could do tremendous good, straight from Heaven– if only given the chance!!

    • Michael McDermott says:

      Linda Maria’s makes a point on allowing groups like ‘Courage’ to help avoid physically harmful & pathological / treatment resistant disease spreading via Male Homosex Behaviors even the CDD warns about .

      However – addressing the Anti-Catholic Agenda of the ‘GILBERT – ALLIANCE’ includes more than just the homo-anal male (XY) population.

      Radical Gender Feminist Misandry (separatist / neo -exterminationist Hatred of Men & Boys, Masculinity & Normal Heterosexuality)- exhibited by those who stage the annual tax subsidized “Dyke March” Banning Males from City Streets…

      – Indicates different (often more hate based) pathologies to address and heal– such as links between their endemic Misandry and the widespread Obesity that has led to…

      • Michael McDermott says:

        Properly Addressing the Anti-Catholic Agenda of the ‘GILBERT – ALLIANCE’ includes more than just the homo-anal male (XY) population, and needs to include Women (XX) & ‘women’.

        The Harm from Radical Gender Feminist Misandry (separatist / neo -exterminationist Hatred of Men & Boys, Masculinity & Normal Heterosexuality)- exhibited by those who stage the annual tax subsidized “Dyke March” Banning Males from City Streets…

        – Indicates different (often more hate based) pathologies to address and heal– such as links between their endemic Misandry and the widespread Obesity that has led to tax subsidized studies ostensibly looking for ‘Causation’ – Yet carefully avoiding discussion of MISANDRY as even a potential factor.

  24. Linda Maria says:

    When growing up, the Blessed Mother was viewed with great love, awe and respect! The practice of Chastity was a MUST, and the honor of girls and women, was of great value, for men and boys to defend, and cherish! Sex and child-rearing, were responsibilities of Marriage. One was taught to lead a good, responsible life always, pray hard when tempted, and humbly accept punishments justly dealt out, for sins committed! Family life, and the church, was the center of our Nation. Very few people “went the wrong way,” in life. The majority were RESPONSIBLE, had a good WORK ETHIC, from youth, and pride in themselves, to be decent, honest, trustworthy, and mature, in a community!

  25. Linda Maria says:

    I will continue. Too bad our Church, and our Nation, can’t seem to leave behind the immaturity and immorality of the babyish, irresponsible leftists and liberals! Embrace hardships maturely, as Christ taught, be brave, strong, and true; resist evil temptations– and pick up our daily crosses, and go! After a certain age, we aren’t “little ones,” any more! Our “Mommy” should not be there, to “baby” us, deprive us of growing into maturity, and EMASCULATE all the men– with phony, “rich playboy-style,” “free rights” to all sins! Men also do not have to grow mature and strong, by roughness and violence– Christ didn’t! How about just acting MATURE and RESPONSIBLE, daily, in all things??

  26. Linda Maria says:

    I will say something, about the definition of the WORK ETHIC– in regard to our traditional American WORK ETHIC– based in our Judeo-Christian heritage! A little boy or girl should be encouraged to grow towards independence, self-confidence, self-control, the daily practice of Christian Virtue, and development of good character, and maturity, from their earliest days! The young should be taught to work hard at everything, in a balanced way. There is a time for work, and a time for play! A person of maturity and the WORK ETHIC, will be a good citizen, for our Nation– and a good Church member, for Christ!

  27. Linda Maria says:

    Here’s to all the frightened, “scardy-cat” priests and prelates– too frightened, in the modern world, to honestly and squarely accept their vocations– to teach and preach Christ’s Truth, and daily give practical help to all, so that they may truly SUCCEED, in being good followers of Christ! You all need lots of FAITH, and lots of CONFIDENCE– in yourselves, and in God!! Remember, St. Paul said, “I can do all things, through CHRIST, Who strengthens me!”

  28. Michael McDermott says:

    And so the Gaystapo makes its first ‘Goose-Steps’ to Control the System and Punish the Faithful for speaking the Truth:
    SEE
    STATE FORBIDS PASTORS CALLING HOMOSEXUALITY ‘SINFUL’

    http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/state-forbids-pastors-calling-homosexuality-sinful/
    The state of Kentucky has begun imposing a religious test on volunteer pastor counselors in its youth division, insisting that they refrain from calling homosexuality “sinful” and dismissing those who cannot bend their religious faith to accommodate the state requirements…

    “With no evidence of any violation of DJJ policy on Mr. Wells’ part, his volunteer status was revoked by the Warren RJDC superintendent because he could not sign a state-mandated statement that…

  29. Steve Golay says:

    The CCC is tagging something a disorder, what is it? “Disorder”, by definition, incorporates the notion that something has been misdirected, waylaid, mutated, perverted from its original nature and direction (as in unfolding the ends of that nature). To say that the Church has no interest in understanding the origins and causes of disorder (that is to say, sin) to vacate it of its primary task, to seek out and truth and all its implications and consequences.

    The dark lord of silence has bludgeoned our common human curiosity. The regulation that we must never discuss the causes and origins of homosexuality has infects the who9le body politic, including the Church. That is a dangerous position to take, if only because it restricts and…

  30. Steve Golay says:

    [PART 2]

    That is a dangerous position to take, if only because it restricts and punishes truth-seeking from fulfilling its task.

    Homosexuality does have cause(s) and origin(s). Just as (here, I’m dragging in the big elephant) pedophilia. (Like homosexuality, pedophilia is a psychological and moral “disorder”, to say the least.) Is the word out here, now, that we should not discus the .causes and origins of pedophilia? Maybe our Post-Modern betters are demanding that of us.The APA, in their enormously influential Diagnostic Manual, appears to be saying so, in their efforts to classify pedophilia as an “orientation” (which is simply a political/literary designation, as it is currently applied). This was the first step the…

  31. Steve Golay says:

    [PART 3]

    This was the first step the organization took (in the seventies) to declassify and “reorient” homosexuality – now look where we are? Now how will the APA tag pedophilia – with the courts, the universities, non-profits, and state agencies, following at its heels. Let’s include in that list, every state school from kindergarten on up. The suggestion out there is to rename pedophilia as Child-Attracted- Adult and Adult-Attracted -Child. The inclusion of the word “and” is crucial. For the social and political push to accept pedophilia will spin on the progressive dogmatic dime of not denying any person, especially the child, their “right” to “construct” his own sexual identity. How else do you explain the GingerPerson…

  32. Steve Golay says:

    [PART 4]

    How else do you explain the GingerPerson exercise in sex ed classes (look it up!)? The ideology, and the political strategy to accomplish this have already been put into place during the campaign to accept homosexuality and so-called same-sex marriage.

    Can anything stop this social/political/moral horror from happening? Yes. But only if the fathers of this nation are willing to hit the streets with their pitchforks.

    And before someone pops in here and pulls out that hoary old chestnut about homosexuals being pedophiles – except where the two meet in a Venn Diagram with an academic discussion of its coverage and size. In fact, if the topic of the causes and origins of homosexuality was not so shunted aside that chestnut…

  33. Steve Golay says:

    [PART 5]

    In fact, if the topic of the causes and origins of homosexuality was not so shunted aside that chestnut wouldn’t be so hoary, let alone pulled out!

    The point being, the progressive/leftist greater campaign to secure their totalitarian control will use the social and legal acceptance of pedophilia as they did for homosexuality.

    By the way, the second step in the acceptance of homosexuality was to put out the false claim that the causes of homosexuality are unknown – and that the question itself is politically impolite. The question is, When will we see the same second step for pedophilia?

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      If it were forbidden from discussing the causes of homosexuality, then you would not have university professors, some of whom are out gay people themselves, searching for genes for homosexualty. So I don’t even know where you get the idea that such a discussion is “forbidden”. Forbidden by whom? What should be discouraged is having people make up ridiculous and unproven explanations for homosexuality (or any trait physical or psychological, for that matter). Talk about it all you want. Just try to stick to facts and knowledge, and limit idle speculation.

      • Ann Malley says:

        Indeed, YFC, the ‘openly’ gay professors who are seeking to find the gene, etc. Methinks there would be much bias in such a group, especially as such groups are often funded by those similarly inclined to use the ‘debate’ to foist damaging change upon society as a whole.

        So while you’re pushing to limit ‘idle’ speculation, try not to push bias ‘science’. Science that, as yet, is little more than hopeful speculation…. like a good many other things.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Ann Malley, any scienitific finding is only accepted to the extent that it is reproduced in other labs by other investigators. So if a gay man were to find evidence for a gay gene, it would have to be reproduced in other labs. In fact, a gay man DID find evidence, albeit week, for a gay gene way back in the 90s. Others tried to reproduce it, and had a very hard time. But you know what, a couple of years ago, a straight investigator did a much larger study (and therefore better) than any that came before it, and confirmed the first finding. The POINT that you missed is that if gay people were forbidding the discussion of causality, they wouldn’t be investigating it themselves.

          • Ann Malley says:

            …then why are you so adamant about not looking to other causes, YFC? If the discussion is completely open, shouldn’t you be a chief advocate of exploring homosexual molestation/abuse of children as a potential cause?

            Why limit the search to a genetic component and idly label all other pursuits of the truth as idle? That seems bias to me.

  34. Ivy Leegh says:

    It is the priests who need COURAGE! We should all be praying for them.

  35. Linda Maria says:

    A boy needs good role models, to help him grow properly, into a man. Even a boy with homosexual tendencies, needs this! He, too, must grow up properly, into a mature man! A boy must not be treated as a “baby,” by a silly, irresponsible psychologist or priest, who lives in an ivory tower, and fears facing real life! A boy must learn to deal with real life, accept challenges, test his abilities, and learn self-mastery– and become a man! He must be taught virtues, right from wrong, a solid moral conscience, and good character– and pride himself, in being mature and responsible! Mature men with good moral character, will do all in their power, to avoid sin, and proudly accept life’s crosses!

  36. Steve Golay says:

    Dear Fellow Catholic,

    My remarks didn’t drag the fallacious notion of gay gene into the conversation. Homosexuality (as sexual compulsion for pain, punishment, even death) has various yet related causes and mobidities. This, I beg to differ,, is rarely discussed. It has become socially “illegitimate” to do so. In sex ed courses of public schools do they have a unit on the causes and origins of homosexuality? Why not?

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COMMENTS POLICY: Comments are limited to 750 characters and will be truncated at 750. Comments should not contain offensive or libelous language. Please strive to be civil. All comments are subject to approval by our moderator and to editing as the moderator deems appropriate. Inclusion of your email address is optional.