Bishop Vasa: Pope’s comments on gays in line with Catholic teachings

Bishop Vasa with Pope Benedict

Bishop Vasa with Pope Benedict

The following comes from a July 29 story in the Santa Rosa Press Democrat.

Comments made by Pope Francis in his first press conference were widely regarded as conciliatory toward gays. But Bishop Robert Vasa of the Santa Rosa Catholic Diocese said Monday that the Pope’s words were in line with existing Catholic teachings, which call for compassion for gays, reject discrimination but consider homosexuality a disorder.

While en route back from a trip to Brazil, Pope Francis engaged in a candid, 82-minute press conference with reporters aboard the papal aircraft. The pope responded to a number of questions, ranging from gay priests to the role of women in the church to financial scandals involving the Vatican bank.

“If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?” the pope said. “They shouldn’t be marginalized.”

But Bishop Vasa said these comments were anything but “groundbreaking” and echoed certain paragraphs from the catechism of the Catholic Church.

“I don’t know that I would see them as any more conciliatory than the church documents have always been,” he said.

Paragraph 2358 of the catechism recognizes that the number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is “not negligible,” and that homosexuality, as a disorder constitutes for most of them a trial.

But the same paragraph also points out that gays should not be discriminated against and “must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity.”

In several news reports, Pope Francis’ statements Monday were contrasted with former Pope Benedict XVI’s signing of a document in 2005 that said men with gay tendencies should not be allowed to become priests.

Bishop Vasa said the pope made no statements contradicting his predecessor.

“I don’t know that those are necessarily two different statements,” he said….

Bishop Vasa said the candid nature of the pope’s press conference, where the pontiff was not afraid to answer questions, was a reflection of the church’s new leader.

“He is his own man. He is not afraid to engage with discussion of matters in secular society that may be controversial,” Vasa said.

“But at the same time, he holds true to the clear teachings of the church. Nothing in what he said suggested acceptance of gay priests or otherwise engaging in homosexual acts.”

To read the entire story, click here.




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  1. Every little “explanation” by bishops, examines a fraction of the issue. Whom are they seeking to fool? It is getting disgusting. These bishops seem to believe that that most important thing of all is not worshiping God and following Jesus but obeying every new rule that they can spin into the utmost vaguery. Again, compare and contrast the way these modern bishops talk and write with the doctors of the Church, the Saints, the Apostles … extremely different. For example, St Paul’s source of knowledge was his three days in Heaven; Bishop Vasa sources his knowledge in the bureaucratic production called the CCC. When are we going to have a bishop or pope who says his source is God?

    • They ALL say their source is God — such is the nature of religious people.

    • You can not do GOD’s WILL when you break HIS Commandments. EX 20:1-17.

      JESUS said: “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.”
      Mt 16:18-19

      I will follow JESUS, not the Skai’s of this world.

      • Oh, PETE, the Skai’s the limit…

      • PETE, you didn’t say anything that I didn’t say. But you missed the critical part, the part that says every bishop and pope “is” Peter. Let’s see you prove your assumption, if you know how.

        • Anonymous says:

          Skai, every Bishop is NOT “Peter”.

          “ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine,
          attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. “ – Pope John Paul II. (pg 5)

          • A statement is not the same thing as Jesus Christ, unless by “statement” you mean Verbum Dei, aka Jesus Christ. You do not even recognize the difference between a book and God.

        • I will also follow Jesus, and His Magisterium who gave us the CCC.
          I will not follow arrogant Skai who thinks he knows more than the Pope and Magisterium.

          “….the Catechism has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates , lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)

          “In this Year of Faith let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more, by reading and meditating on the Scriptures, studying the Catechism, steadily approaching the Sacraments.” Pope Francis, May 15, 2013.

          • Deb, it is you who are expressing arrogance. You and other semi literate champions of the faith cannot even grasp that fact that I have never asked any of you to follow me. The only thing I’m doing is challenging you to think, and you are not. Rather what you are doing is reacting to the challenge, without even going to the trouble to understand what I’ve posted … you constantly falsely interpret it. And this failure on your part at communications is what I’m playing on. You will find nothing I’ve ever posted that contradicts the Magisterium. All you do is construct a strawman and then plaster my name on it. Many readers, however, understand what I’m posting, which is why only a few blustery semi-readers are ranting and raving.

          • Anonymous says:

            Pardon me for butting in, but, Skai, you have posted things that contradict the Magisterium. Such as “only Adam and Eve were made in the image of God” or “God wants us to judge and condemn people”

          • “Such as “only Adam and Eve were made in the image of God” or “God wants us to judge and condemn people”. After Adam and Eve, man has been created in a fallen condition, and not in the image and likeness of God. What is not to understand by this, Anonymo? It is what the Church teaches, known as the Fall. Jesus tells us to judge others and expect to be judged accordingly. Your problem is you do not want to obey Jesus Who tells us to become perfect even as God is perfect: This means to live up to the Sacraments. You are commanded by Jesus to transform from earth to Heaven, not to sit around waiting for the fairy godmother to tap you with her magic wand. Grow up.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        PETE do you know what you are saying? Don’t you think that Skai knows this and that is what he is preaching? Wow I think there is a misunderstanding somewhere…I know there is…I have a hunch…. : )

        • Anonymous says:


          I think those who love to attack Skai know that Skai is mostly right, there is no misunderstanding only ill intent!

          God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
          Kenneth M. Fisher

          • Anonymous says:

            When Skai writes things that could lead someone astray, people feel the need to correct it. He responds with insults then when the people who have said what needed to be said do not respond he thinks they have faded away overwhelmed by his brilliance. You will find that he has admitted often that he posts things to argue or to make people think. No one needs that.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Now Anony Skai has not lead anyone astray…..especially on moral issues, he is clear as day….now if you want to discuss your pro-gay rights crowd, then you can say that about them because they are the real culprits…just because skai has a style of his own and you don’t understand it….how can he cause anyone to go astray…..geeze…..

          • Anonymous says:

            I hope Skai has not led anyone astray. There are several proponents of the Catholic faith who will correct his errors. But you never know who is reading or what they will believe. It is better to know the faith and communicate it accurately. Several of Skai’s errors are serious. Skai had his own ideas. They are not Catholic. You should defend the faith and Jesus Christ. I do not have a pro-gay rights crowd. The Catholic Church is involved in a struggle to maintain the traditional teaching of marriage as between a man and a woman. The Catholic Church teaches that gay persons are to be treated with justice and fairness. The recent statement of Bishop Barbera of Scranton explains this well. (Everything isn’t about gays, abeca.) To list Skai’s errors would put me way over the word limit. Defense of the ill done is also a way to cooperate with sin. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Anony if you are the same anony…then you lie because you are the one who is for advocating gay rights….so stop the deception….your comments are hypocritical because as in the past on a few comments from an Anony….that anony was OK with gay rights and if someone read that…they would be mislead by that Anony’s comments and telling from your comments sound like that same anony…..

          • Catherine says:

            The anonymous enabler writes, “I do not have a pro-gay rights crowd.”

            Physician heal thyself with thine own advice.

            “Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not. Your loyalty to your pals is admirable but untruth is not.”

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Catherine thank you….Anony says that I am loyal to persons but he is wrong…it is not persons or people whom I seek to be loyal too, I admire the loyalty people have for our Lord, that I do and some have been better at it.

            Anony you make this about me but it is not…you are ticked because I won’t put up with some of your dissent, now sometimes you come off as k. Now honestly, maybe you make some true constructive criticism to Skai’s comments but maybe dialoguing with him would help you better than blaming and distracting from what is being debated by him. People are free to debate with anyone. I just won’t stand for dissent and misunderstandings to discredit the good in some, they are unjust.

          • Anonymous says:

            abeca, no I have never advocated for gay rights. I know the poster that you mean. I am not he. I have never dissented from any Catholic teaching on this website. (Nor do I.) Skai does not answer the question on whether he has had the sacrament of confirmation. I am not attacking Skai. I would like to see him and all catholics know their faith better. Skai has posted that he had to teach himself (with the Holy Spirit) the Catholic faith. Is Skai just a person who became convinced of the presence of the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and began to attend the Catholic Church or has he been fully initiated? I do not mean it as an insult. Plenty of Catholics who have had 3 or more sacraments are more ignorant of the Faith than he is.

          • Anonymous, you can attack me all you want. It is not your attacking that makes you look hilarious, but your inability to understand much. Your accusations continue to claim that I’ve never explained any of the questions put to me. But this is false, because I have thoroughly explained every question put to me, several times each. Not my fault you never read or you can’t remember. You and your liberal ignoramouses will pile up a half dozen or more such things in one blog and then expect me to lay out each one. I’ve already laid each one out. You get off your slothful rear end and either find what I blogged or go and find the truth as presented by countless Saints or directly by the Holy Ghost. Most of what some of you do now is mimic my style … but you are really not good at it.

        • No Abeca, I don’t think Skai believes what Jesus said, or he would not constantly knock the Magisterium’s “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”. Go back and read his first posting about this article.

          “….the Catechism has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)

          “Through the harmonious and complementary efforts of all the ranks of the People of God, may this Catechism be known and shared by everyone, so that the unity in faith whose supreme model and origin is found in the Unity of the Trinity may be strengthened and extended to the ends of the earth.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xv)

          • ” may this Catechism be known and shared by everyone”: “may” is a word which has to do with wishful thinking. Bl John Paul II is hoping that the CCC will help, for a particular objective, which he says … “so that the unity of faith may be strengthened”: Note how Bl John Paul II does not claim that the CCC is the unity of faith? Also note that Bl John Paul II says the CCC “enables” people to know the Catholic faith? The book itself is not the Catholic faith. Further, note how Bl John Paul II never says that the Church was born upon the publication date of the CCC, and that there is much that he said to indicate he believed that the Church was born on Pentecost? St John tells us that the summation of faith is love, one word. St Paul warns the Church about the “judaizers” who load heavy burdens on the faithful in the same way they broke the back of the religion and people God raised up through Moses and Abraham. Notice also in the CCC and in what Bl John Paul II says, that the CCC is an aid, that it explains how the authority rests in the Pope, and not in the book called the CCC. More on this after the next barrage of confusion from the CCC worshipers out there.

          • Anonymous says:

            It was a prayer. No one worships the CCC. Are you sincere or are you trying to wind people up?

          • Abeca Christian says:

            PETE you need to pray about it….with Skai…I see a soul who was lost and didn’t know the faith but Jesus showed him the Catholic faith and Skai being in good will…left his old ways and joined Christ’s church…for a protestant that takes a lot of guts and shows good will. Too bad you don’t see that even under his flaws…he is holding those valuable pearls close to his heart. Well I’m not here to make Skai the center of attention….I suggest you go after the pro-gay activist that come on here daily….they are the real culprits….now Skai does love a good dialogue, so instead of insulting his person…why not just answer his rebuttals with the truth…if you know them….after all he has no quarrels with disagreeing with him, he just wants you to be challenged to think and you challenge him with the facts and truths…not personal attacks….thanks

            PAX CHRISTI

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Plus Pete the CCC does say it is a resource/tool….I would say that Skai knows more about the faith than most Catholics….or why else are there so many who do not get him? They don’t read or study infant church…now we may not always agree with each other but the church did not define that as sin…..hmmm

          • Pete, you admit you don’t know. That is a beginning. As Solomon said, “Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom”.

        • Anyone who professes to be Catholic (including Skai) and bad mouths the CCC is a heretic and schismatic.

          QUOTE: “These, then, are the four elements which comprise the storehouse of memory which the Church hands down: the profession of faith, the celebration of the sacraments, the path of the ten commandments, and prayer.
          The Church’s catechesis has traditionally been structured around these four elements;
          this includes the Catechism of the Catholic Church,
          which is a fundamental aid for that unitary act with which the Church communicates the entire content of her faith:
          all that she herself is, and all that she believes. ” UNQUOTE. – Pope Francis (Encyclical Letter LUMEN FIDEI, 2013)

          • AMEN to PETE and DAVID.
            Thanks for these posts which include the quotes from our Popes about the CCC.
            Skai, can not disagree with them, he merely ignores them and keeps contradicting our Popes, and Holy Bishops (Magisterium). Although Skai sometimes he does state he has trouble understanding the Doctrine of the Faith contained therein.

          • Since the CCC is a new publication, what does the Pope mean when he says it is included in what the Church’s catechesis has been traditionally structured around? Tradition is twothousand years and the CCC is a few years. Also, how can the CCC be a “fundamental aid”, since the Church has brought out this aid following twothousand years of faith? This encyclical seems like it was edited by a bureaucratic committee. My guess is that modern Church literacy is heavily influenced by Vatican II speek, a vague kind of semi-linguistic genre. Also, we’re getting the quotation in English, so I wonder what it actually was written to convey.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            DAVID how does he bad mouth? I care to know how you believe such a thing when most of his comments are reporting church teachings.

            Joyce I would challenge you instead because it is you who does not understand the faith…so you read the CCC…that makes you more knowledgeable, right? I don’t agree. Yes the CCC is a precious tool not to take for granted but for you all to treat it higher than Jesus…well I would be weary to follow you.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            DAVID Skai has never objected when I posted CCC teachings…..I think he is trying to prove a point with your crowd……there is something to this….hmmmm

          • Anonymous says:

            abeca, Skai does not accept the authority of the Church therefore he is missing a huge chunk of the beliefs of the Church. If you want to defend him as a convert who is still confused and we should give him time, fine. I feel bad for Skai because he obviously has not been taught the Faith and he has tried very hard to learn it. All of us post-Vatican II, doctrine-free catechesis victims are in the same boat. Skai does not accept all of the authentic sources of Catholic knowledge, and as a result he is deficient in his knowledge of the Faith. You can’t learn 2000 years of Catholicism by reading the Bible and the Fathers. You can’t learn all of it by reading about private revelations or the writings of the saints. These are excellent things to do and one who does them will have lots of knowledge but if you reject the official teaching of the Church, you will not have the fullness of revealed truth. Skai resists and insults it.

          • What I’m doing is really simple literary and philosophical evaluation. Those who can’t comprehend it only show A. their ignorance, and B. their utter lack of humility. Learning requires humility and not blind obedience or tossing a coin and going with the heads or tails of the matter.

          • Anonymo, you learn 2000 years of Catholicism gradually by faithfully communing with God in the Holy Eucharist. All the words in printed Church materials direct one towards this one goal … which is why it is called the Last Supper … there is no superlative event. This is it, you take and eat of True God and True Man and you act charitably. Jesus calls this the Eleventh and Greatest Commandment.

      • PETE, why do you presume that I’m asking anyone to follow me? Find some part of any of my blogs that asks you to follow me. You will find nothing on that order. I’m challenging you to make an act of reason, and you refuse.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Skai that is right…PETE is just throwing hogwash….if he wants to encourage people to learn their faith through the CCC, fine but it is not the only resource to learn it but it can be a simple beginning for the beginner…After all people are poorly catechized and the CCC is a great tool to help towards discovering what the faith teaches but to go deeper…other resources from our Lord and the saints are excellent completion to the wholeness of our beautiful Catholic faith.

          it puzzles me that people misunderstand Skai…..I guess understanding is a gift…not all have it. The devil must be using these opportunities to discredit Skai since Skai is always fighting the good fight on instinctive evils….Skai does not support pro=gay agenda’s and does not tolerate abortion either…so the evil one distracts by having people bash his person so they can get off the real topics that truly matter…..Bye all…stop this nonsense….now if you want to disagree with skai or understand him better…then charitably dialogue but don’t attack his person and faith.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Abeca and Skai, i know that this may be hard to understand, but just because someone is anti-abortion and anti-gay does not make them a faithful Christian. Whether you like it or not, Skai regularly ridicules the teachers and the teachings of the Church, much more directly than probably anyone else on here. Any objective reading of the comments section would bear this out.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Such hypocracy coming from you YFC….you advocate homosexual rights….so you may not directly come out and bash the CCC but you do with sinful activism.

        • Tom Amadeo says:

          Skai–it is obvious that many of our posters have never heard of the sacrilege of papal-worship called papolatry which is a grievous sin against the First Commandment. To them, any word emitted from a papal mouth is accepted as having been sent directly from the Throne of the Sovereign of the Universe by Almighty God. They ascribe to the pope powers he does not have. They fail to note that St.Paul corrected Pope St. Peter! They seem to display ignorance of the meaning of papal infallablility.

          • Tom, I’ve long understood your position. I’ve long hung with thinkers as well. In past ages the Church has survived entire episcopacies which were errant. The Church is surviving this present debacle of bad or weak bishops. Couldn’t tell you how it will turn out in the near future, though. Although I’ve pointed out several times where Jesus teaches us in the Apocalypse that discernment is our responsibility, individually, and that it can and will become extremely difficult, so difficult that even angels of light might be phonies. Incredible that so many souls cling to the apron strings of anyone who tells them they have authority. I’ve posited the challenge to find out what authority actually is, and so far no one has taken up the challenge. I’m sure you can see how astonishing it becomes. Jesus told the apostles that he’d pray they’d not be scattered so’s the sheep would not be gobbled up by the wolves … The logical inference of this is that it can happen, and the obvious observation today is that it is happening.

      • Pete, you seem to have a very difficult time not following random people, so difficult that you are tempted to follow me. I’m not even leading you anywhere, unless you confuse leading with trying to persuade you to improve your ability to control your passions and develop your mind.

    • When he can prove it . . .

    • Zealous warrior says:

      Skai, the Catholic Church is the Church established by Jesus Christ. The bishops are the successors to the Apostles. Bishop Vasa is much better educated in the faith than you think. You don’t seem to have a real understanding of the Church. The Church is not a thing of this world. It is not run by men. You do not understand the offense against Jesus Christ that you commit.

      • Zealous, nice theory but you’re omitting a great deal of Catholicism. For one thing you’re speculating without even understanding what that is. Your little theology bit there is false theology, not Catholic. Jesus is both man and God … He is material and immaterial, just was we are. Best go see if you can find it in the CCC2ndEdition; if not, then I guess you’d be up a creek, huh? But you should know that there are other good teaching references published by the Church, that are written by saints, doctors of the Church, ex cathedra statements by popes, and also apostles … but maybe that is too much work for you. So, then, you’re stuck with the committee bureaucratic pub aka CCC.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Zealous have you not read the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas? I suggest you read them, I know they are long and lengthy but they are filled with wisdom and he sure know how to challenge people to think (to reason well) and to defend the truth well. I enjoyed his writings and still do when I revisit them…each time I learn something new. : )

          • Thankyou, Abeca. What St Thomas Aquinas has taught me is how to present an argument. Sadly, so many Catholics have no idea what an argument is, or why it is important to make them. I forget maybe which Doctor of the Church explains (probably not a few of them do) that there are levels of “subtlety” which are available for minds to deal with, and that it is like climbing a mountain, where people begin to conk out more and more the higher they get on the mountain. Maybe I’m recalling St John of the Cross. I had to work very hard and deprive myself of many goods in order to learn how to express myself … these people such as Zealous seem to have omitted this sort of discipline from their lives. They’re more pretence than practice, and their empty blogs pretty much demonstrates it.

          • Abeca, no one is knocking the “Summa Theologica” of St. Thomas Aquinas. In fact his teachings are included in the CCC, as all those who have completely read the CCC know. I have never seen anyone on this site put down the writings of any Saint. Only Skai is confused enough not to know this.
            Skai constantly puts down the Magisterium by degrading them to a mere “committee”. (Well then, he would have to call the Apostles a “committee”.)
            Skai rudely misinterprets many (but not all) things, and therefore should not be followed (Mt 16:17-18).
            Follow Jesus, His Pope and the Bishops in communion with him (the Magisterium). The CCC is directly from HIS Magisterium.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            PETE who is following Skai? I am for Jesus but Skai is just another humble soul…….he certainly has a special style and he likes to reason and challenge….I know it’s hard for many to keep up with…that is OK,I don’t always get it or keep up. I don’t know how you find him to be a threat. There are real dangerous people here who discredit the churches teachings with their dissent on homosexuality. He is not one of them…focus on the real dangers. Lets be honest here and I never said that anyone was knocking down the Summa of ST, Thomas…I read the CCC …and it is not a complete Summa…but it does give out portions to the teachings of the faith….The real question is do you understand ST. Thomas’s theory to reason? Just asking…thanks God bless you! : )

        • Zealous warrior says:

          Skai, every time you are called out for you lack of catholic faith, you pretend the other guy is dumb. If you think that it is a theory that the Church was established by Christ, then you have not really learned the faith. Did you ever receive the sacrament of confirmation?

          • Z, I’m not pretending you’re dumb, I’m simply making the observation. I don’t know how old you are, but it’s high time you simply accept the fact and go with it.

          • Skai, why should Z accept that he’s dumb when you have not?

            The whole idea of you talking about your “argument” skills is completely laughable. Your “arguments” look like entries in a “how many logical fallacies can I cram into paragraph” contest.

          • Nonsense, Z. I’ve presented sufficient replies in the past. Been there, done that … most people are not persuaded by logic, but require emotional motivations. So, I’ve transitioned over to this phase of conveyance. It seems to work, since at some point there is someone else who will present a clear explication of the issue.

        • PETE, you nor anyone yet has provided the proof to support your claim that the CCC is a magisterial document. Claiming a book is the total word of God because it quotes Doctors of the Church is ridiculous. You’re doing nothing other than mimicking the devil who quoted Scripture to Jesus in an effort to deceive Him. And here all along you imply you’ve actually read Scripture … yeah probably some of it, and remembered a portion of that and understood yet even maybe a bit of that. You do not even see that you have no idea what you are talking about … either that, or you simply have not gone to the trouble to sufficiently express what God has put in your mind to express. Your homework assignment, therefore, is to practice expressing yourself completely in writing. May take you a while, but hang in there.

          • Anonymous says:

            You did not answer my question about whether you have had the sacrament of confirmation yet.

          • Skai – this quote proves the CCC is a Magisterial Document. It has been printed by several posters in the past year or two on this web site.
            QUOTE: “ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. “ UNQUOTE – Blessed Pope John Paul II. (CCC page 5)

            Please read this quote more than once with a mental emphasis on the following words: “Apostolic Authority”, “Catholic Doctrine”, Apostolic Tradition”, “Magisterium”.

            Jesus gave the authority to bind and loose to His Church (Pope and Bishops who are in communion with the Pope) – Mt 16:18-19.
            In the front of the CCC, you will find: “Apostolic Letter Laetamur Magnopere in which the Latin Typical Edition of the CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH is approved and promulgated. And the “Apostolic Constitution FIDEI DEPOSITUM on the publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church” both of which state they are officially “For Everlasting Memory”.
            (It doesn’t get more official than this.)

          • Abeca Christian says:

            This catechism is not intended to replace the local catechisms duly approved by the ecclesiastical authorities, the diocesan Bishops and the Episcopal Conferences, especially if they have been approved by the Apostolic See. It is meant to encourage and assist in the writing of new local catechisms, which take into account various situations and cultures, while carefully preserving the unity of faith and fidelity to catholic doctrine. (Intro CCC)

            19 The texts of Sacred Scripture are often not quoted word for word but are merely indicated by a reference (cf.). For a deeper understanding of such passages, the reader should refer to the Scriptural texts themselves. Such Biblical references are a valuable working-tool in catechesis.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            8 Periods of renewal in the Church are also intense moments of catechesis. In the great era of the Fathers of the Church, saintly bishops devoted an important part of their ministry to catechesis. St. Cyril of Jerusalem and St. John Chrysostom, St. Ambrose and St. Augustine, and many other Fathers wrote catechetical works that remain models for us.11

            9 “The ministry of catechesis draws ever fresh energy from the councils. the Council of Trent is a noteworthy example of this. It gave catechesis priority in its constitutions and decrees. It lies at the origin of the Roman Catechism, which is also known by the name of that council and which is a work of the first rank as a summary of Christian teaching. . “12 The Council of Trent initiated a remarkable organization of the Church’s catechesis. Thanks to the work of holy bishops and theologians such as St. Peter Canisius, St. Charles Borromeo, St. Turibius of Mongrovejo or St. Robert Bellarmine, it occasioned the publication of numerous catechisms.

          • Pete, you really cannot tell the difference between “official” and “magisterial”. Oh well.

    • Tom Amadeo says:

      Skai–you are correct. The “pseudotrads” who frequent this site don’t have a clue about the Faith. The complete suppression of the latin pseudo-mass of 1962 soon will be universal. (Of course,the reason to be given by the new order hierarchy will be that the priests don’t know Latin. Nothing is really lost since the ’62 hybrid mass is invalid ,anyway.) The post Vatican 2 hierarchy,infiltrated by modernists such as Bugnini,Montini (Paul IV),Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) and all the other popes since,with the modernist bishops and cardinals they appointed have succeeded in destroying from within most of the Catholic Church–which is alive and growing in what amounts to the catacombs. In the 15th century, the dogmatic Council of Florence condemned as anethena any and all who worshiped with other faiths and faith services. The modernist popes worship with Jews in temples,Muslems in mosques ,with Buddhists ,etc. Francis says that infidels can find salvation outside the Catholic church. These are but a few of many heretical positions by the modernist church. New “mass”,new doctrine,new morals ! Only those who embrace the Catholic Church as it was for two millenia and will be forever ,are condenmed by the new order church.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Tom you are a real thinker….We need more St. Thomas’s today…more than ever…

        • Abeca, this person just wrote that all our recent popes have undermined the Church and are destroying it from within!!! and you compare him with St Thomas Aquinas? Where on earth does he attend Mass? Where is a church good enough for St Amadeo? How dare he judge our popes and find them lacking? Sounds like an Arian heretic to me.

          • Tom Amadeo says:

            Dana–from your comment about me sounding like an Arian heretic,I judge that you would not recognize an Arian heretic if you fell over one. Arius taught that Christ was the creation of God the Father and that Christ did not exist forever and was subordinate to the Father and not equal to Him.This doctrine denies the divinity of Christ since it is the essence of a divine being to exist without beginning or end. The Arian doctrine was declared heresy by two Councils,(Nicaea-325 AD,and Constantinople-381AD). How you or any of your cohorts can make Arianism out of my post is beyond reason. By 1956, I graduated from two Catholic universities where I was taught the Faith into which I was born,trained and in which I will die. This was the Faith of our Catholic ancestors ,free of the synthesis of all heresies—Modernism. And Skai did not compare me “with St Thomas Aquinas” as you remarked in your delusive post. But nothing I said is contrary to the positions of Aquinas. And when I can (I am 83 years old) ,I travel 60 miles each way to attend the unchanged, unabridged Mass of the Roman Catholic Church before it was bastardized by V2. My conscience prohibits me to attend the New Order church or services.

          • prudence says:

            A reminder: It is a mortal sin to miss Sunday Mass without a serious reason such as illness or caring for infants or ill people. To not attend Mass because one does not believe in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and/or refuse communion with Her is an act of heresy and schism. You are not going to die in the Faith. You have created an idol out of a rite and now live in mortal sin (or at least grave sin if you were not aware that it is a sin.) Please get reconciled. Pope St Pius V please pray for him.

          • I knew if anyone responded they could peg me about arianism. I’m aware what it means…I was responding to Abeca, my dear sister in Christ about what you wrote “The post Vatican 2 hierarchy,infiltrated by modernists such as Bugnini,Montini (Paul IV),Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) and all the other popes since,with the modernist bishops and cardinals they appointed have succeeded in destroying from within most of the Catholic Church”– I respect your age, your commitment, your education and prose style but I totally disagree with such vitrolic criticism of our popes and frankly, your condemnation of posters here who, while not being up to your weight, are most assuredly not pseudo-anything. My grandmother lacked all your attributes but she had something that worldly success can’t bring…she had utter and complete love and trust in Jesus and in her simplicity and sheer goodness gave a sermon with a smile.

          • Amadeo hangs with bright people, engineers and and applied scientists and technicians. These people are typically analytical and understand how the material world functions. When they encounter illogic, they either laugh it off, or sometimes try to understand, or even sometimes try to correct those who are not sufficiently rational. I’ve said it before and here it is again: I somehow found the doctoral dissertations of the bishops sitting on a shelf in the library of Catholic University of America decades ago, and I leafed through some of them. Very disappointing material. But in contrast, I’ve also read the greatest of Catholic literature … there is an extreme difference. Intellect is a gift from God and is not to be trampled on by the likes of those who can hardly control their knee jerk reactions and begin spouting stuff they learned in kindergarten. These are also the ones who whine and complain about name calling, but do not realize that with their irrational rantings there is little else to be done. Some of them cannot even tell the difference between intellect and nonsense. I often with practiced skills and clear intent deliver both, because it weeds out the fops.

          • St Thomas was canonize for his holiness, and not for his works.

      • The reason the Church is in the state that it is in is because most Catholics do not study the Bible and the CCC, and are not encouraged to do so by most Bishops. People do not know their Faith in entirety or accurately, so it’s easy for heretics and schismatics within the Church to deceive them – intentionally or not.
        And most US Bishops do not act against Sacrilege, Scandal, Heresy, Schism and Relativism.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Dana maybe I missed something….I will re-read but I tend to see through the intent through more …..

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Ok thank you Dana…I agree…I don’t agree with his views on calling our Popes the modernist…..Thank you for the correction….Tom I’m sorry for the misunderstanding but I disagree with you on that part that Dana pointed out.

      • Tom you are so right.

        How can anyone ever consider anything but the original mass in the original words as the true mass?

        I think it is a terrible corruption how we allow more than a dozen men and one woman to celebrate the mass with one priest, while not reclining on couches, and failing to speak in Aramaic. Shameful!

        And, I am in complete agreement with you about how Francis is a heretic for saying there is any salvation outside the Catholic Church. I am certain the Good Samaritan is burning in hell, despite his good deeds. Your brilliance is overwhelming.

    • Tom Amadeo says:

      Dana—since when is it a mortal sin to avoid,evade or oppose that which is an invalid, protestant and indeed pagan religious service called a “mass”? Why pagan? Because it is the worship of bread. The way the new order genre clergy treat what is said to be the Eucharist is prima facie evidence that they themselves do not accept the Real Presence of Our Lord in the bread they have pretendeed to confect. They hand it out like free candy at a carnival—to freaks,perverts and in one case I know of from several witnesses, to a sick dog! You keep any church that permits acts of this kind to go unpunished. The “priest” perpetrator of the act remains a pastor!

      • Anonymous says:

        This is absolutely untrue. The Mass is not invalid. It is not protestant. It is Catholic. It is not pagan. Pagans worship false gods. The Holy Trinity is not a false God. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is in the Blessed Sacrament. He is the Bread of Life but the bread of the communion wafer no longer exists when transubstantiation occurs during the Eucharistic prayer. All priests believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. This sin of blasphemy, heresy and schism that you have committed here is extremely grave. St. Thomas Aquinas lists unbelief as the gravest of sins. You seem to still believe in God but you have been totally mislead. If anyone believes you on this, you will also be guilty of scandal. Please repent. Pray to Mary. She can break the chains of evil that bind you.

        • Tom Amadeo says:

          Anonymous–most of your post is true as regards Catholic doctrine EXCEPT there is one flaw in your position. All this Real Precence demands the act of Consecration by a Real Priest. I hold that the Novus Ordo ordinations for priest and bishop are INVALID. The criteria for valid ordination of priests and consecration of bishops has been set down by many popes including Pious Xll. Pagans worship false gods—true! But unless consecrated by a validly ordained priest bread remains bread and to kneel before it as if it were the Body and Blood of Christ is pagan and a violation of the First Commandment. Oh,I believe in God ,The Trinity and the Sacrements, and the Holy Roman Catholic Church but reject forever the New Order. It is you who and your ilk who have been decieved by the Novus Ordo church.

          • Anonymous says:

            Tom Amadeo, the priests of the Catholic Church are validly ordained. Your fear of them is not valid. Your rejection of the Catholic Church (there is no Novus Ordo Church) is an act of schism. I know that you believe in God and the Trinity and the Sacraments (which aside from baptism and Holy Eucharist are not valid in the independent parishes, but the Eucharist is illicit). But you do not believe in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. You said that you believe in the Holy Roman Catholic Church -that is not the Creed. You must be united with the Pope. This is in the Roman Catechism written by Pope St. Pius V. I will pray. I love you very much and I want you to be saved. I know that you think you are in the True Church because there are decievers who teach that. There is one sure way to tell-union with the Pope.

          • Tom, I am so glad that you are here to instruct us.

            I cannot express my gratification that FINALLY there is someone who realizes that LATIN is the only true tongue of the Church. That, Christ, in all his infinite wisdom decreed that LATIN is the only proper language to spread the faith. Obviously, the worship of all the Christians until the Council of Nicea was completely void and invalid, since Latin became the language of the Church only after Constantine decided to stop persecuting Christians.

            Of course, I fail to understand how everyone cannot comprehend how once the magesterium decided that Latin would become the language of the church how the magesterium lost any power to decide which language the Church should use. Thank you Tom, for enlightening us about how once the magesterium selected Latin, no other language could ever provide valid sacraments!

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Tom you need to stop being indoctrinated into those believes….the Mass is valid whether it be Latin Mass or NO….they are valid….that is scary how some Catholics just fall for those heretical theories as you have. So are you anti-Pope too? Now I’m concerned on what you are just saying….I need to pay close attention to all comments……You are completely wrong and you need to speak to someone who is faithful to the Magisterium to help you see the error of your ways….in the mean time I will pray for you.

      • I was specifically addressing your issue with the popes. You’re bringing up an entirely different issue! Of course it is wrong for priests to treat with irreverence our beloved Lord in the Eucharist. Of course it is wrong to have liturgical abuses. What you wrote about Pope Benedict was wrong and heretical. You’re trying to combine topics to keep within the 250 wd. limit, right? ;o)

        • Catherine says:


          Look at all of the confusion that disobedience and compromise has wrought. God bless you Dana for caring about souls.

          • Thank you Catherine and God bless you. I was thinking today how ironic it was that you could defend two men copulating and marrying one another, two terrible offenses against our Lord) but as long as you say it nicely and politely, you’re considered a loving and caring individual. But try sharing God’s Biblical truths and the Church’s teaching on these abominations, you’re considered a mean and hurtful person. I truly care about each person here and do not want them to suffer unnecessarily. There is a reason why God designed and created us and made us in His image. Our bodies are temples for the Holy Spirit. HE resides in us. Think of it! That we should degrade these temples (and believe me, I speak from experience) should be unthinkable to each one of us.

          • Anonymous says:

            I have never seen Catherine defend two men copulating and marrying one another. Sometimes comments come on at a different place than we intend when we post them. I am sure that Dana was not saying that about Catherine.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Thank you Dana for pointing that out….I hope he listens to your concerns. I think I will take a break from this thread, it’s heartbreaking that we have so much disobedience and confusion from so much information that is out there that is trying to trick souls. We need to lovingly correct those heresies if we can and are knowledgeable enough to help break that dissent and untruth.

    • skai ” For example, St Paul’s source of knowledge was his three days in Heaven; Bishop Vasa sources his knowledge in the bureaucratic production called the CCC. When are we going to have a bishop or pope who says his source is God?”

      So you set yourself up to judge Bishop Vasa based on an article in the local biased newspaper? Are you serious?
      Have you actually had a conversation with Bishop Vasa or read any of his writings where he says his source is not God or through his Son, Christ, Jesus? Where is your evidence? Best not you say the Press Democrat!
      You have no justification on which to base such a statement concerning Bishop Vasa. I know the man personally and know the foundation of his faith, based on many conversations with him. You could not be further from the truth. He is a man of deeply founded faith and is not afraid to speak the Truth of the faith. He is battling wars you only talk about! You set yourself above others thinking they do not have the depth of knowledge or faith that you have? Have a conversation with the good Bishop and you will find yourself quickly disarmed ( in a charitable manner, not the way you attack others).
      Find a new target for your phony ramblings. You (and your shrink, Abeca), seem to be a sideshow for the pseudo-intellectual circus you have made of this otherwise interesting blog. If you don’t know the person you are attacking, at least have the decency to keep your comments to yourself.
      Need I remind you that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ? Bishop Vasa is a genuine apostle of Christ,who follows in the footsteps of the saints before him in great humility (a word you may have to look up). Pope Francis was chosen to serve by the Holy Spirit. They both deserve our prayers and our respect, which is something you seem to be lacking. For all the knowledge you claim, it has done you little good. Knowledge for knowledge’s sake is worthless; seek humility and charity first.
      The original Alice, (not whoever began using my name in other places in this blog.)

      • Michael McDermott says:

        Hear Hear – Well spoken (lower case) alice… Although you spoil it just a bit by using Capital Alice at the end of your post, just like Capital Alice does, only different.

        BTW – Certainly seems to be a lot of off topic personal ‘howdy doody’ cooing and such, for a thread dealing with Bishop Vasa and the Pope, which is more suitable to Personal IM exchanges – but then Trolls want to drag you Under the bridge – not across it.

        As for Alice2 – shame on you, providing you are who you say you are, and not alice1 or any other incarnation lurking around this looking glass world of the internet. You should have introduced yourself, if only to ‘share the blame’ evenly…
        Now that we don’t have just plain ole ‘alice’ to kick around anymore (with appropriate apologies to ‘tricky dick’ nixos – whose rehabilitation of character in relation to the example of the Chicago Mob in charge now, has been nothing short of remarkable.

        BTW – Wasn’t Nixon’s Secretary named Alice? Any conspiracy buffs out there want to comment on the sinister overtones of Two Alices (actually one alice and Aclice2) showing up at almost the same time? With or without the missing 15 minutes of ‘missing’ tape that made them famous?

        • I (original alice) have posted here for a long time…I just have a job and other responsibilities and I post infrequently. The “new alice” just showed up, but I’m not sure when except it was obvious this time, since I was gone over the last few days….and this is not to say that I don’t agree w/Skai on many topics. I just find the “authority figure” skai to be offensive in many instances when he attacks people (even Bishops) he does not know at all and I will defend my friend when unjustly attacked always.

          • alice, what is with so many cradle Catholics that your entire world is viewed through some arbitrary construct of authority. You people have learned almost nothing beyond the age of five or six. Just grow your mind up and learn what the Church teaches, why don’t you? God handed out minds … you might check this out in the CCC2ndEd to find out more about it.

          • You have no idea what my “world view” is and from what you post it appears your only view is the mirror.
            Sorry you were not blessed to be a cradle Catholic or even an educated convert. Your glitches are showing; you are not an authority of any kind. But keep trying you just might make it.

        • Alice has something to do with rabbits and shrooms, not to mention other hallucinations and tombs. But isn’t that what lack of Catholic knowledge consists of, illusions? Alice you need to start your Catholic education and self exoricism by learning up on the Gallileo v. Bishops/Popes event. Your idols, the bishops, condemned people who said the earth was not flat at all. Today’s alices paint all things with a rosey charm while babies are aborted, boys are raped, clerical temple prostitution runs rampant, the Curia is filled with sodomites, and the Vatican money machine is making itself known as Corruption Grande Central Station. But don’t bother with facts, history, faith, humilty or reason, alice, just continue on believing that your local bishop is God. And check your copy of the CCC2ndEd to see if it makes any sense to you.

          • Blah Blah Blah, skai….when you can’t answer a question or admit a mistake the only door you can run through is blame…blame everything that’s gone wrong in the Church for the last decades on anyone who who dares to place facts in your path. You attacked Bishop Vasa saying he: “sources his knowledge in the bureaucratic production called the CCC…When are we going to have a bishop or pope who says his source is God?” Of all the remarks made here concerning that article, you are the only one who sets yourself up as God. Your pedestal is made of clay. You are a sad imitation of a holy man. Bishop Vasa is the real thing. That is not illusion or fairy dust that seems to rule your world, that is the truth. Anyone who truly knows the man would agree. I can only speak for those I know; there are many bishops out there that I find deeply disappointing….he is not one of them.

        • Alice doesn’t live here any more, Michael. She’s opened a restaurant where I heard you can get anything you want. Seriously, I’ve not even entered into the whole point of this post and I want to say that from what I know of Bishop Vasa, who was a virtuous and strong bishop in Eastern Oregon (anywhere in Oregon has to be a really tough post for a Catholic) I admire what I know very much. May God bless his work, his service to God and to his people in his diocese. I wish more bishops had his boldness. If negative things are being said about him, I think, like Bishop Finn, it is because he is doing God’s will. Satan never sleeps. And I have to say both these alice’s are both cranky and remind me of Alice Kramden, but most of you are too young to remember her. This particular subject has been crazy for some reason. Like Abeca, this is going to be my last contribution on this topic. And how anonymous thought I was saying Catherine was recommending what he/she wrote is beyond bizarre. Good grief. God bless us all on our earnest path to seek His will and help us to take the straight and narrow way.

          • At least I use my real name here, which is more than most do. I am most often a pleasant person and do not jump 0ut of the gate to attack anyone…skai touched this off if you read the initial post to this article. I am tired of the generalized attacks for no other reason than to push a personal theory. Talk about cranky! And yes I am more than old enough to remember the Honeymooners, Dana. I am named after my mother, and I must say, I am more like her (than either Alice Kramden or Alice in wonderland); she is a wonderfully educated orthodox Catholic woman.

      • Anonymous says:

        Thank you, Alice, for your defense of Bishop Vasa.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          alice I know it’s hard to believe that Bishops are human and that they too have caused scandal in the church…I know it’s hard to even swallow that fact….you need to understand the difference….we love and appreciate loyal Bishops and we know that many seek to be good and holy but they are human and sometimes lead by their own theories but as a good holy priest once said to us, is that it does not matter what personal opinions they may have but they their duty is to uphold church teachings and be loyal and holy to them…well something like that he said.

          So being humble is also taking in the good with the bad, understanding that and with charity sometimes a lay faithful may be lead to speak out the outcry that can potentially harm many souls.

          • Don’t lecture me on a man you don’t even know!
            “I know it’s hard to believe Bishops are human”….really? I know how human Bishop Vasa is! I know the man personally!
            I know that he is solid and I don’t have to defend him, but I get sick and tired of all the generalizations made on this blog.
            Bishop Vasa knows his duties better than anyone on this blog.
            And he does so faithfully and in humility! I don’t even know what it is you are trying to say, but save it for some other general rant about bishops. In this case you chose the wrong one to attack.
            You probably seek to be “good and holy”, too, but your only human so we won’t go any further with the personal attacks. Remember I didn’t start this.

          • Anonymous says:

            and I might add: I don’t need to be patronized regarding what is human. We are all human for pete sake.
            Bishop Vasa does not teach or only uphold his “own theories.” He defends Christ and Christ’s Church as it was left to the Apostles.
            And finally this: you seem to have no idea what the virtue of humility is and is not. That was the worst explanation I have ever heard. If you want me to believe that attacking Bishop Vasa is somehow virtuous for the “lay faithful” you need to first exam pride, terrany and arrogance…the things that block humility…those are place you don’t want to go.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            its interesting but alice thought I was attacking her….

            alice I don’t doubt that you know Bishop Vasa personally….I have nothing against him nor you. But you came here in anger talking down to some here. Well you are definitely passionate about what you are saying….and for the record I am not a Bishop who has the duty to uphold church teachings….I am one of the flock who needs leading but praise God that I look to Christ always first.

            So no worries, I don’t hold your comments against you…I believe you….I just want you to remember my words….God bless you.

            Pax Christi

          • Abeca Christian says:

            alice I;m not the one using such foolish words like “and your shrink, Abeca”. I actually almost laughed, not at you but how silly it sounded. It’s the first time I have been called a shrink….my husband was passing by as I laughed in surprised and he saw it and thought it was silly. I don’t take these things seriously…how can I. So I’m a shrink to you….. Okie Dokie then. : ) Just last Sunday I was called the lady in red, they loved my modest red dress and some guy was singing “lady in red, is dancing with me”….my husband wanted to punch him but we are Christian so we just ignored him. So you know Bishop Vasa personally….interesting…its funny but if you look at my comments here…I have not once said anything negative about him….and if I ever do….well it will be out of charity, whether you like it or not…..tis tis.

            God bless you alice……and if this Bishop is doing the will of God, then you are right, he does not need to be defended…. Peace in Christ!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            “A man may stand for the justice of God, but a woman stands for His Mercy.”
            ― Fulton J. Sheen, Life Is Worth Living

          • Abeca Christian says:

            “Conversion can also occur among those who already have the faith. Christians will become real Christians, with less façade and more foundation. Catastrophe will divide them from the world, force them to declare their basic loyalties; it will revive shepherds who shepherd rather than administrate, reverse the proportion of saints and scholars in favor of saints, create more reapers for the harvest, more pillars of fire for the lukewarm; it will make the rich see that real wealth is in the service of the needy; and, above all else, it will make the glory of Christ’s Cross shine out in a love of the brethren for one another as true and loyal sons of God.”
            ― Fulton J. Sheen, Peace of Soul: Timeless Wisdom on Finding Serenity and Joy by the Century’s Most Acclaimed Catholic Bishop

          • Abeca, I have no issue with you. I did not “come here talking down to some.” I directly entered this blog when a fool attacked a good Bishop that he doesn’t even know. That is legitimate. This site is routinely highjacked by attention seekers like him who bloviate ad nauseum and attack anyone who doesn’t bow down to them. Its a shame the monitors don’t monitor.
            You do yourself a disservice by jumping on every bandwagon that the “wannabe” theologian skai dreams up. I hope he actually finds his way to a genuine faith in the RCC, but he is a long way off at this point. If you are his friend you might try guiding him away from his dissidence. I’m not interested in adopting him or reading anything further he might spew.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            No alice you are wrong….you don’t get it. Look at the many threads…the pro gay rights crowd they stick together, you don’t see them talking down to each other to bring forth discredit, even when they disagree…but you have so much indifference and confusion coming from some who preach to be faithful….we are outgunned! At a pro-life cause event, there was a Jew and a Catholic working together, but all of a sudden the Jew stopped the good fight because Jesus was brought up…..The Catholic tried explaining and but the Jew didn’t want to hear it. There were similar name calling, harmless like the ones you have used. Now their pro-life cause was weakened because they couldn’t work together for the same cause. People of faith have convictions and love for our Lord but it’s sad that it is those indifferences that separate us and thus get us to argue over stupid stuff because we can’t agree, while the gay activist are having a good laugh watching supposedly faithful Catholics have a good chew on a few….in this case…..well we know better. If you don’t get it fine…

          • Abeca Christian says:

            alice you just spewed a lot here….you did and that is how you came off across. I am not saying this in spite either, its hard to read into the reality in some comments….in all sincerity, I find it a tragic. Your friend the shrink…..Abeca

          • Abeca Christian says:

            @ alice:
            There is a certain loyalty in the Latin upbringing that people don’t understand that aren’t Latin. Our Pope may have given some comments to the liberal media that sounded pro-gay but in reality he didn’t want to trash talk about His own, it was best to shut them up and don’t give them what they wanted. Which is to trash the faith even further. Our Pope knows the teachings of the faith and many of us as well here in regards to instinctive evils. The big no no’s on abortion, gay marriage, etc etc

            The enemy will always have a free for all day especially when it comes to attacking differences that are not considered a sin. All a distraction to distract us away from the real issues that are affecting us and to discredit those who stand firm on the non-negotiable’s on morals.

            In life we will always have people who will be displeased with us or even pleased with us…..but at the end of the day, we are to be pleasing to God. And I will stick by those whom may not be perfect but usually can reason well…which most lack now a days. Common sense is now a rare ingredient today.

          • Well, I always liked the Honeymooners and my sister was named after my Grandmother Alice so it’s a favorite name of mine. How would you like a free trip to the moon, Alice? haha They sure don’t make tv shows like that anymore. The stageset itself was brilliant. God bless and keep on defending Bishop Vasa. He’s a wonderful bishop.

        • Anonymous, why are you presuming and making it out to be as though Bishop Vasa has been under attack. You tyrant minded people perceive every question as an attack. You should check into an asylum and be tested for delusions of grandeur and paranoia.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            This is actually in response to Abeca’s post of August 8, 2013 at 2:13pm:

            Abeca writes ” People of faith have convictions and love for our Lord but it’s sad that it is those indifferences that separate us and thus get us to argue over stupid stuff because we can’t agree, while the gay activist are having a good laugh watching supposedly faithful Catholics have a good chew on a few….in this case…..well we know better.”

            You are almost right. It’s not that gay activists of faith enjoy watching anti-gay people of faith argue about things uncharitably, its that you prove yourselves to be just generally uncharitable people, whether it is towards gays or towards straights. If you treated fellow Catholics with respect, you might actually earn respect by people who disagree with you. But instead, you (and some others here) use derogatory and disrespectful language in place of rational and polite argumentation. This hurts you among people who read your posts more than you realize.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai you are right…anony just loves to cause trouble…alice fell for it.

      • alice, your blind following the blind type of religion is immature and ignorant. You’ve obviously never learned much about the Church other than to worship the bishops and priests and nuns. No wonder boys are raped and abortion is rampant … because of people like you who stubbornly insist that the world is flat and reason is an attack on God. Ignorance is a sin, alice; tyranny is a sin. You need to do some serious reflection on idolatry and how to disengage from it.

        • Ah, more of that famous Skai style!

          First we have three ad hominems nested in the first sentence. Not only is Alice’s religious faith “blind” she is also “immature” and “ignorant”. Next, Skai calls Alice “stupid” and then accuses her of idol worship—here we have an ad hominem fused with bearing false witness. I very much admire the creative mixture of a logical fallacy with a lie.

          Since mere idol worship is not at all sufficient, Skai then must make Alice responsible for the child abuse scandal on part of the priesthood as well as the scourge of abortion. Next, Skai returns to the ad hominem by calling Alice a “flat earther” and then says that by disagreeing with him, you’re saying that reason is an attack on God.

          Then, since Skai has not sufficiently insulted Alice, he again calls her ignorant and a tyrant.

          What is Alice’s crime? She doesn’t agree with the great and powerful Skai. Of course, her true offense is much deeper: she sees Skai for exactly who and what he truly is.

          And, as if this barrage of insults, accusations, and lies isn’t enough, Skai MUST assert his superiority over her by condescendingly telling her to “reflect” on idolatry and advising her to disengage from it.

          I, for one, am sure glad that Skai made the terrible sacrifices necessary to learn how to express himself. The world is so enriched by his efforts–which I am sure is beyond my meager intellect.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            jonj you are bias….alice attacked skai….what do you call that…you are just angry at skai so this was your opportunity to point fingers…more hypocrisy in your part…

      • Alice, this is just classic Skai—the guy who tries to use every logical fallacy in the book and call it “argument”.

        In this case, since he doesn’t have any legitimate reason to attack Bishop Vasa, he makes up one—a strawman (i.e. the idea that Bishop Vasa does not see God as his source of inspiration). He executes his sin of bearing false witness against Bishop Vasa by floating the false premise that if you cite the CCC you are necessarily ignoring God. Then he knocks down the strawman and claims that he’s taken down Bishop Vasa.

        The sad truth is that Skai probably doesn’t like the CCC because it doesn’t include anything about how Christians should firebomb homosexuals and how Christians should execute entire city populations if they refuse to worship Yaweh like in Dueteronomy.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          JonJ so skai is now classic ……wow! Make your point intelligently but I keep forgetting how can you!

  2. Thomas Edward Miles says:

    OF COURSE! Listen up right wing, no more name calling!!!

  3. Why don’t they also say that homosexual acts are immoral?

    • It might hurt too many people’s feelings to count in the Vatican alone, 4unborn. It”s considered being judgemental and unkind. Far better to let people die in their sin that wound their sensibilities.

      • …THAN wound, I meant to say. Trying to be too brief. haha

        • Abeca Christian says:

          @4unborn: Because mankind have become cowards and filled with false compassion……look how the apostles taught and even the doctors of the church…they called sin SIN. I miss good men like Bishop Fulton Sheen, he also told it like it is!
          I am a woman, considered to be the weaker sex. But if I speak up because men do not anymore…then ladies like me are considered strong character….as if there was something wrong in that….when more men are becoming feminized…then more ladies are having to take on the load to doing a man’s job….I don’t like…I am very dainty and feminine but who will defend the weaker sex? I guess, in today’s time we are to be more like the women in the bible who did more than their load, more than expected… the St, Joan of Arc, like St. Catherine…etc the women who were outspoken and disliked because they did the will of our Lord’s. And if we are a bit more shy, we model after our lady….but her obedience we all should model after.

          Better that than be a liberal bitter activist women who object the will of our Lord’s for her own benefit.

          • Glad you’re continuing to post sayings from the late Abp Fulton Sheen, Abeca. All I’ve read of his writings are like the Church of the saints, doctors, apostles, and not like the contemporary bishops’ sayings. I wonder if the USCCB will eventually condemn committee Bureaucratic operations, so that the Holy Spirit won’t have so much nonsense to wade through when trying to inspire individual bishops.

          • Dainty, huh? But no doubt you’re faster than a bolt of lightening 🙂

          • Wait, just dawned on me that there are readers out there who might not know about the devil being as fast as light … So, to clarify, I’m saying that Abeca, who has claimed being of “dainty” size, yet is quicker than lightening. And so the Lord God is quicker also, and so quick that He appears on both horizons at the same time, to wit, “as far as the east is from the west” is the Lord; yet, since the Advent of Christ, this far distance has become the opposite and become the opposite of far. He appears quicker than the blink of an eye. The Kingdom is among us, there is no distance for those faithfully receiving the Holy Eucharist. Some bloggers talk as though the Lord is far off, which was the case prior to Christ’s Advent, and especially prior to His Last Supper, particularly the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai thank you…..I’m trying.. : )

        • It is very clear, Dana, well said.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            From Bishop Fulton Sheen On True & False Compassion:

            False compassion and human respect are, in my opinion, a large part of the reason for much of the corruption in the world and the Church.

            Apathy, lukewarm faith, attachment to sin, and obstinacy in sin are not helped in any way by false compassion.

            Sin is like a cancer. Imagine an oncologist having a compassionate attitude toward the cancer killing his patients! Although those patients might suffer less in the beginning because they wouldn’t be forced to endure chemotherapy, more likely than not, the patients treated by such a physician would die much sooner, whereas if such patients were treated, many would very likely beat their cancer and live.

            Sin is like poison. It’s not compassionate to sit back and let someone drink poison.

            The key is speaking the truth in love. Tone is very important when dealing with creatures as fragile, fickle, and prone to pride as human beings, who due to concupiscence, as a result of Original sin, are inclined to take the path of least resistance and follow their lower passions rather than right reason.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            From Fulton Sheen:
            Although it is true that fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, it’s very important to make sure that in sharing the truth, we do not become an obstacle to its acceptance. Who wants to sign up with a group filled with members that appear bitter, angry and unpleasant? Who would join a group that sought to enlist members by insulting and condemning people?

          • Abeca Christian says:

            One must know their faith and be sincere….having personal agenda’s man made ones, show no sincerity to me, that is why I only try to stick with those who don’t have immoral agenda’s to promote.

            I detest an insincere heart, that usually scares me and it’s hard to trust. I feel safe around sincere ones, no matter what flaws one may have, they are only flaws and with love and prayers, those in good will, will seek to work on them.

  4. Everyone would know for a fact that Pope Francis has been in full accord with Church teaching. He has never strayed from teachings of the Church, even though some media – think he states something new.
    The “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” is over 20 years old, and should be read by everyone – Catholics and non-Catholics alike.
    Let us all encourage EVERYONE to read the CCC to know the TRUTH of what the Catholic Church teaches.
    “The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. 1 Pet 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes”. – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg 6)

    See CCC: 2357, 2358, 2359, & 2396.
    Same-sex attraction (temptation) has never been a sin. Homosexual Acts are MORTAL Sins.

    • Rose colored optimism glasses again, PETE, combined with that “it feels better to go along to get along” attitude? Aren’t you ever bothered about that?

    • Tom Amadeo says:

      Ya,Pete and they are called to celebacy ,and that is why so many are clergy? Like double celebacy? Almost 2000 yrs ago, Jeuvenal,the Roman poet and satyrist said that the perfect woman was like a black swan—-everyone knows what a black swan is, but who has ever seen one? I would say that would apply to the homosexual.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Quoting St. Thomas Aquinas:

        Fear is chiefly required as being the foundation, so to speak, of the perfection of the other gifts, for “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Psalm 110:10; Sirach 1:16), and not as though it were more excellent than the others. Because, in the order of generation, man departs from evil on account of fear (Proverbs 16:16), before doing good works, and which result from the other gifts.

        In order to judge aright, the speculative reason is perfected by “wisdom”; the practical reason by “knowledge.” The appetitive power, in matters touching a man’s relations to another, is perfected by “piety”; in matters touching himself, it is perfected by “fortitude” against the fear of dangers; and against inordinate lust for pleasures, by “fear,” according to Proverbs 15:27: “By the fear of the Lord every one declineth from evil,” and Psalm 118:120: “Pierce Thou my flesh with Thy fear: for I am afraid of Thy judgments.” Hence it is clear that these gifts extend to all those things to which the virtues, both intellectual and moral, extend.

      • Cygnus atratus aka black swan.

  5. Laurette Elsberry says:

    The “spin” resulting from Pope Francis’ words is what is important here, and I’m afraid that they will be considered as “acceptance” of homosexuality.

    • Not if people read the CCC.

      • Much of the CCC trails off into vague oblivion.

        • Only you seem to have this problem Skai.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Its interesting….Skai never discourages me from reading the CCC…..I guess he must just get ticked off at the regulars who just promote the CCC like it’s the only resource or tool……just saying.

            But with that said…..I do appreciate the CCC as a tool to answer questions about the faith… can lead one to checkout other approved resources as well. For those who do not study the faith, it is an excellent tool to start but don’t stop at there….discover the faith through other approved resources as well but once you grow of course…….we can experience Jesus through the saints, their words and devotions can open our hearts even more. I’m a romantic so reading the Psalms make me feel a step close to Christ. The new testament is so full of Christ’s heart, that it brings me to joyful tears. The CCC quotes words that help us to acknowledge that Christ gave us His church. Our Catholic faith is not one part of this or that, is not just word or church but both…it’s the wholeness of the truth…complete….just many miss some of the puzzles and do not complete it….but who does…we are all learning every day.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Skai I have read the CCC and it is not all bad, it could use some improvements though and I get what you said about some areas, they are vague and anyone can misunderstand it but it is still a good tool/reference for those who are not Catechized well or who may have questions about the faith. It is not the only approved reference book to the faith….so people have to understand that and they need to understand that the wholeness of the faith is much more and they can benefit from discovering more on the faith by reading the Bible, the writings of the doctors of the faith, saints other councils etc etc….we have a beautiful faith…not subjected to one tool or reference to learn the faith but many more approved avenues that can help us grow….it is always a learning opportunity to grow closer to Christ…foremost we are to grow closer and loving to our Lord, fearing Him so that the Holy Ghost can guide us to the truth always.

          The CCC is a Catequism tool for classes and to preach from using other resources with it as well especially with the Holy Word of God.

      • Anonymous says:


        I know a priest who has I assume read the CCC, and he was bothered by the ambiguous statement of Pope Francis and so are many who are struggling to stay loyal catholics!

        God bless, your sin Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

        • Mr. Fisher, by the actions and lack of teaching by many Priests in the USA, we can not assume that most Priests have read the CCC.
          Many Seminaries and Catholic Universities do not use the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” as a required text.
          Catholics who regularly read the Bible and the CCC know more about the Faith than some Priests. This is very sad.
          The CCC is very clear that we love the sinner and hate the sin.
          Homosexual Acts are mortal sins, not same-sex attraction.

          • Tom Amadeo says:

            Alice—same old nonsense. So you go ahead and love the sinner and hate the sin! You have made a universal statement.The biggest sinner of all is is the devil. Surely you have heard of him. So the next time Satan tempts you,tell him how very much you love him.

          • So, Alice, you’re a book salesperson? Isn’t it a relief to know that after twothousand years the wannabe Catholic Church can finally become the real Catholic Church by adhering to the CCC2ndEd.?!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            That is where we have gone wrong in our American language….often I read lay faithful say these words “The CCC is very clear that we love the sinner and hate the sin. Homosexual Acts are mortal sins, not same-sex attraction.” As if it needed clarity? The doctors of the faith never abused such language by adding not same sex attraction. The faith was clear and precise…now we add those words but in actuality it can lead towards false compassion. The “gay” agenda has desensitized our language. I am also prey to this because i find myself having to wimp out and add those as if pride would set in and worry what the reader may think. Now people treat homosexuals as if they are all suffering same sex attraction but not taking act in it. But we know that most are acting it out in some way…that is where their sin is. It’s like those who seem all wonderful on the outside but inside they are hiding deep scary secrets about themselves.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            May our Lord have mercy on us for watering down the truth….most often many are tempted to do that just so they can avoid confrontation. But who knows what our Pope intended…Our love and prayers are with him…….we must not fall trap to what the media always reports….

          • Who took my name? I am the original Alice here!

          • Abeca, you are so right!

            People should end this “false compassion” and should instead follow Leviticus and start stoning gays the minute they admit or demonstrate their sin in public.

            That Christ fellow who has something to say about casting stones was another victim of false compassion.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            JonJ again you display your foolish analogies and theologies….haven’t you learned anything? Jesus was telling the men to not cast the first and like Skai explained it well…Jesus was admonishing those men who wanted to cast the stones…now in today’s times you can not compare the gay men to the woman who they wanted to stone but you can line them up with the men who wanted to throw the stone….they were the ones admonished! PAY BETTER ATTENTION and do not let your sarcasm blind you…think before you speak!

        • Not only are some priests puzzled by Pope Francis’ sayings, but many people I know who are not even Catholic are disgusted with the confused self contradictory absurd stuff allegedly coming from him. It seems to me that a pope should be saying things clearly, reasonably and logically because other than Bible thumpers and CCC thumpers, many people “out there” hunger for the truth, and are disappointed when it does not come from its traditional source, such as a priest, or bishop and especially a pope.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            That is true Skai….I agree..

          • Abeca Christian says:

            That is where I am most concerned with…..a message that can go both ways is always confusing and we are seeing the outcome here….how many homosexuals have decided to embrace their temptations even more…now that they see things through their sinful nature…they seek approval and one wrong impression can help edify what they want so bad. It’s sad…we live sad times….God have mercy on us.

          • What’s interesting here is how Skai and Abeca seem to be following Leviticus 20:13, while Pope Francis I is following Christ (John 8:7).

            I think we should all wise up and follow Skai and Abeca. Think of all the fun we can have by throwing stones at one another!

        • What about Archbishop Khai, Kenneth?
          You usually bring up his name — are you slipping?
          I’m sure he would have something wise to say about all this…

        • Kenneth M. Fisher,
          There is a video on youtube where your priest friend can see the statement in context.

      • You’re right, Anne; in fact the other day I was out in the public sector and noticed that everywhere I went, including the mall and the beach, every last soul was busy and absorbed in reading the CCC2ndEd. I began to count the number reading it and the number not. I counted 8,467,239 people altogether, and about 97.53% were reading the CCC2ndEd. Even the drunks, and amazingly all the drunks in central park were reading it. Cop cars were driving around with the cops yelling out chapter numbers of the CCC2ndEd, the crime rate dipped precipitously low that day, but picked up later on the next day. There were even people levitating a copy of the CCC2ndEd out in front of an old delapidated horse racing track. The fishing fleet outta San Fran had been netting countless copies of the CCC2ndEd all morning and hauled them into Fisherman’s Wharf, where people were picking them up like hot cakes, the gays were all marching around MHR parish grounds calling for an end to gay marriage. Folsom Street caught on fire and was utterly destroyed … except for a vendors flatbed truck which was loaded down with thousands of copies of the CCC2ndEd, which people were stealing faster than one could count. The great Houdini had been resurrected and was demonstrating how to get out of the CCC2ndEdition in case one ever became trapped in it; I watched that for hours and then had to leave … not sure if he escaped it or not.

    • Pope Francis knows what he is doing, which is contradicting himself. This tells me that there is a reason. The only reasons can be weakness ie lack of sufficient faith required of a pope, intimidation, sellout. Investigative reporters will eventually figure it out.

      • Only Skai knows more than the Pope, more than the Magisterium, and more than God.

        • The Church, Alice, teaches us to worship God, not the pope, not the magisterium. Try it, you might find it’s better.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai she is not worshiping the Pope…that didn’t help your argument Skai….just being honest bud. Skai I must admit your words are not conveying well on your last comment…from August 2, 2013 at 3:05 pm. No one is worshiping anyone….we are just faithful to Christ’s church and I know you are too…don’t let them tick you off by their attacks, Alice was wrong too, its too bad she doesn’t know your faithfulness as some of us here have seen…they just misunderstand you and you trying to challenge them is not working…it’s obviously that they think so ill of you…and it’s getting to you….don’t let pride get in the way….I know that you have never knocked down my faithfulness to Christ and His Holy Catholic church…you are just ticked off by how they come across but I think they feel the same about you. Sorry that there is so much misunderstanding…try another approach…God bless you Skai…. : )

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Alice I am turned off by your crowd attacking Skai…..

          • Someone took the name alice on this blog….please change your user namer to identify you as a new or alice 2 or something. I don’t want credit for what you are posting!

          • haha. Alice, meet Alice. Have a cuppa tea, but don’t be late because the Queen of Hearts won’t give you tart if you’re both late
            and watch out for the strange looking caterpillar on the toadstool. Don’t eat it!!

        • I left for the weekend and come back to a new person using my name! who are you new Alice????

      • Skai, guy, are you like related to the author Dan Brown, or what?
        Your plots and schemes would make an excellent page-turner.

        • Abeca, I get disgusted with the thoughtless fawners of bishops. If a bishop has faith, then why would they need to rest on any laurels they’ve achieved? St Paul never rested on his laurels. That is the standard as far as I’m concerned. I have been around various animals for decades, and I know the difference between them and humans … I get disgusted when humans exert nothing beyond animal instinct and emotion, without any effort to identify facts and exercise reason accordingly.

          • Skai, all that self-hatred and self-disgust must be really hard to deal with.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai you have a gift and you are probably more intelligent than many….but you gave a good example and I can imagine that JonJ may fall in that category but I think that he does think more in line with childish ways…he tries to reason only to the capacity that the secular allows him. It’s sad.

    • I read your letter in NOR, Laurette…very good!!

  6. King Clovis says:

    Remember Skai…on matters of faith and morals, the Church is infallible…the “TRUTH” of the Church is what we follow, not the disordered thinking of a man, with an agenda that is not congruent with “holy mother church”…men can say anything…even priests and bishops…what does the Church say?

    • Well, King dude, you’re simply reiterating what I keep posting.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        King that is exactly what Skai was saying…way to go….great minds think alike but in different styles all in good will leading to God’s truths….YAHOOOOO

      • No Skai, you keep posting that people who do not agree with YOU are “fools” or some other derogatory term.
        And you do not like the Pope, or the Magisterium, or their gift of the CCC which contains the Doctrine of the Faith so that everyone may know the truth. You constantly attack or make derogatory remarks about them.
        What you think you are posting, and what you are actually posting are not the same.
        You drive people away, rather than bring them to Christ and His Church.

        • Wrong, Dottie, which sort of once again proves my point that too many bloggers are challenged severely when it comes to reading accurately. You do moreover represent the problem which I keep addressing. This problem is that you take everything personally, and your entire effort is bent on being right and gaining followers. You folks should study up on the nature of reasoning matters out, in order to ascertain what is true. But this will be hard for you, because first of all you have to get off your myopic power wannabe. If you simply cannot rise above you emotions, too bad, as you’ll miss out on the view.

          • Anonymous says:

            Thanks for providing the example to prove Dottie correct.

          • And Dottie,

            To reason like Skai, you need to get a frontal lobotomy—which can be both painful and disfiguring.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Dottie put it well, Skai. You drive people away through your insults and bitterness. It must be hard to be as perfect as you!

          • Challenge to YFC:
            Name one person who’s been driven away by Skai’s insults and bitterness! Every day he publicly lays his perfection upon the altar of Narcissus so that the rest of us might see the absurd reflection of our own self-aggrandizement, and seek the humility of God’s Kingdom. All hail! All hail!

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Francis, it would appear that Mark from PA has been driven away from this site. Although, according to him, it was Catherine who broke the camel’s back, I’ve no doubt that Skai was part of the prior piling-on.

            I aslo think we’ve seen many folks over these many months who tell us they are disgusted by what is said here and vow never to return. I know this happened with the school who had a music theater program and got taken to the ground because of it. It has happenned other times. Insofar as Skai opines about every blog post and every comment, it is hard to imagine that these folks weren’t motivated at least in part by their recoil at Skai’s commentary.

          • YFC:
            Mark from PA has posted on this page AFTER I put up the challenge, so it doesn’t look like you can claim him as someone who is “driven away.” He’s been insulted, mistreated and demeaned by multiple contributors who show no regard for Catholic values, Christian prinicples or the basics of adult human behavior. But I don’t believe Mark has been “driven away” by the prevailing narcissistic bloviating, and I think my challenge stands!

        • Abeca Christian says:

          And Dottie what are you guys doing?

    • Remember that TV show from the fifties called “Sky King”? 🙂

  7. So Skai, By your comments what frankly do you attribute the contrast/distinction between the bishops of the modern church and those of the pre-Vatican II popes, bishops, and saints in faith, values, morals, and doctrine?

    • Bruce, read the doctors, apostles and other saints and find out.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        AMEN TO THAT SKAI… we have posted much about what they said here in the past….People need to pay more attention!

      • Anonymous says:


        Great answer to Bruce, and that is exactly what will be needed to persevere in the Faith in these trying times.

        God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
        Kenneth M. Fisher

      • That is Skai’s constant answer. When he can not answer or provide documentation so people can check out his words for themselves, he merely states that you need to find out for yourself.
        He rarely quotes anything, you only get Skai’s interpretation of what is in his own brain.

        • MAC, I’ve been posting on this site for years, and have long past ceased to continue to repeat the same things. I appreciate your effort to morph me into a parrot, but it runs against my grain; in fact, if you haven’t noticed, I keep challenging parrots to think, and as you demonstrate, it’s not your bag.

          • Anonymous says:

            Oh c’mon.

          • Anonymous, you will have trouble with this one: ” “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!”
            Benjamin Franklin “

          • Anonymous says:

            You always change the subject and take a dig at someone.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          MAC that is false….Skai has been posting here for years now…I have read his comments in detail…I don’t think you have been posting here for years so you do not know that about him….plus I’m sure Skai gets tired of repeating himself so he is now cutting things a bit shorter……he use to be more detailed and defended the church more. Well Skai I know you are a humble soul…maybe a little reflection will do good and time to let this one go….. plus MAC you are not fair because I recall Skai answering the questions and then asking but many do not reply back to continue a healthy dialogue…instead people resort to character assassination….

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Perhaps Skai should take a break if all he wants to say is: go look it up yourself. The reality is that whenever Skai has been confronted with an actual source, he is flat out wrong. Wrong, when the source is actually consulted. So I think we should be skeptical whenever he refers to generic comments about how it is in the writings of the doctors of the church. Get real!

          • Anonymous, I do not change subjects; what it is is that you cannot follow a thread, because you are almost illiterate. You display no capacity to comprehend language. Too bad for you, but I engage the use of language with all sorts of minds and most of them comprehend. My analysis of many bloggers on this site is that they didn’t pay much attention in school and they didn’t apply much effort to education. The hard knocks are your just deserts.

          • Anonymous says:

            Tell you what I learned in school. It is the responsibility of the writer to make sure that the reader will comprehend.

        • MAC, isn’t that what free speech is all about? Are we in a nuclear free zone where controversy and free thinking must be avoided and we have to have stylized formats wherein we must document everything we express? Why does what Skai say offend you? You’re free to disagree. I’m tired of being silenced by those who are constantly offended by what other people say. It doesn’t bother me what you or Skai say…bring it on. But don’t try to suppress or limit free expression. Well, okay, so no one has managed to silence me yet, lol, but hey, t’morrah’s ‘nothah day, and you can always live in hope. ;o)

    • ….in 250 words or less, Skai. Bruce will let you know when you’ve maxed out.

    • Bruce, sometimes you have to open your eyes when trying to see the difference between the mountain and the desert. Otherwise you end up like the blindfolded mouse holding the elephant’s tail and trying to figure out what it is.

  8. Gibbons in SF says:

    The Press Democrat story contains a serious error. The author writes “Paragraph 2358 of the catechism recognizes that the number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is ‘not negligible,’ and that homosexuality, as a disorder constitutes for most of them a trial.”

    The author then writes “But the same paragraph also points out that gays should not be discriminated against and ‘must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity.””

    Catechism #2358 actually says “They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”

    By removing the modifier “unjust” from “unjust discrimination” the author inverts the meaning. The Catechism distinguishes between just and unjust discrimination.

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      It is true that the Catechism prohibits “unjust” discrimination, but nowhere does it define the term. The burden of proof would be upon the one discriminating to prove that it is just. This is never ever done.

      • No, YFC, the accuser is the one who must define discrimination – if someone can not use a dictionary to find out what it means.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Very well then, I define unjust discrimination to mean all discrimination. Does that help, Mac?

      • Wow, the “seared conscience” must not be total in the case of YFC, since he has lit upon the major fault of the CCC … undefined terms.

      • Your Fellow Catholic?, I believe the Church would consider the prevention of the adoption of children by homosexual couples as an example of just discrimination against homosexual couples.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Some might, kaves1, but this is hardly a teaching that descends from the Deposit of Faith, and hardly a teaching that enjoys the support of all the bishops or the sensus fedelium, and therefore is not something to which we are required to ascent.

          • Anonymous says:

            YFC, yes God’s plan for the family is from the deposit of faith. Of course the bishops support it and I think you are misusing the term sensus fidelium. Are you required to assent to it? It would be indicative of a lack of understanding if you did not.

          • It is not just ‘some’. It comes from
            11. There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.

          • YFC?, as Anonymous says, God’s plan for the family is part of the deposit of faith. Protection of the family is mentioned in the document I cited. Because some bishops or some people might disagree with this teaching does not mean it is not part of Church teaching. There have been heretical bishops and laity in the past.

    • Anonymous says:


      Did you expect anything else from the MSM?

      God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
      Kenneth M. Fisher

      • Abeca Christian says:

        MAC you are conversing with YFC are you aware of this pro-gay advocacy?

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Abeca, are you aware of my pro-Catholic advocacy?

          • Abeca Christian says:

            See MAC YFC wants to redefine Catholicism to mean pro-gay rights….One of his books that he uses to twist the church teachings is the CCC. Like Protestants use the Bible to be used against unknowledgable Catholics….its all about twisting….

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Incorrect, Abeca, I don’t “want to redefine Catholocism to mean pro-gay rights”. I don’t think the Creeds or the Scriptures or Tradition have a whole lot to say about the concept of homosexual orientation or civil marriage licenses. I do believe, without reservation, in Jesus and the Trinity, in the Creeds and the Scriptures, in the Sacraments and in the Church Universal. I do not “believe” in gay rights.

          • YFC?, Scripture, Tradition do have a lot to say about homosexual acts. They are always wrong.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            YFC I can only judge from what you post here and what you advocate….

  9. Perception is reality !!! Pope Francis is NOT sending a clear message, but one that can be interpreted as you see fit…

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Sorry, SJO, what part of Francis do you not understand? I’d be happy to help you understand it. It was pretty clear to me.

  10. Sorry Skai your answer doesn’t cut it, please don’t try to slither out of answering. I asked you what frankly do YOU attribute the contrast/distinction between the bishops of the modern church and those of the pre-Vatican II popes, bishops, and saints not your cowardly answer to read the doctors, apostles, and other saints!

    • Fit what, Bruce? Cat got your tongue? Out with it, man. If you have something to express other than indigestion, give it a try. The Church has long been involved with language … try using it.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        I recall the lengthy dialogues with Mcguire and Skai. You have to admit Skai that you and Mcguire didn’t agree on things but you both sure dialogued well…..I think you miss that…don’t expect to see you find more like him. There were others too who dialogued so well but are not posting here anymore…wow they really kept me on my feet. There was a Larry and there was another one of my favorites too but I think he left because he felt censored too much by the previous monitors here. Who knows…I don’t recall their names…but they sure knew how to have good dialogue with actual quotes from the faith…i wish i had that gift. I only explain them in my own language but they knew how on another level.

        • With regard to another one of your favorites, I think I know who you are talking about. He was really good.

        • JLS! Miss him here!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            RR JLS is Skai….I think….

          • OH MY, Abeca! I never knew! Thanks for letting me know. When I read the comments now, I think it is him too. If it isn’t him, he sure writes like him. I haven’t been on here much lately, so I’m kinda out of sorts here. Seems like there are some new posters along with the regulars. I see nothing has changed as far as MarkfromPA. I see he is still on here spreading the gay agenda.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Your welcome RR…glad you are back…I missed you too. Hope you stay….God bless you….

          • I was thinking about Rick Delano. ( I hope I spelled his last name right. ) I don’t think JLS and Skai are the same. JLS is smarter and is a great guy, despite what PA says about him.

          • Anonymous says:

            Yes. JLS and Skai are the same person. Mr. DeLano only posts on certain topics. Hope he is well.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Ski Ven yes that is who I miss Rick Delano! He hasn’t posted in a while….

    • Bruce, “cowardly answer to read” Church doctrine? I don’t know what you’ve got, but maybe you can find a specialist to help.

  11. Michael McDermott says:

    The Vatican Website says the following (using over 250 words):

    “Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders

    Homosexuality and the Ordained Ministry

    … various Documents of the Magisterium, and especially the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have confirmed the teaching of the Church on homosexuality.
    The Catechism distinguishes between homosexual acts and homosexual tendencies.

    Regarding acts, it teaches that Sacred Scripture presents them as grave sins.
    The Tradition has constantly considered them as intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law.

    Consequently, under no circumstance can they be approved.

    Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered…

    – necessary to state clearly that the Church,… cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the gay culture.

    • Aside note: “various Documents of the Magisterium, and especially the Catechism of the Catholic Church”. Well, here we have it at long last, a Vatican statement that the CCC is not a magisterial document. Note also that the non magisterial CCC is what differentiates regarding sin between tendencies and acts: The question remains whether the magisterial documents say the same thing; odds are they don’t, because if they did, then people would provide the magisterial statements, and they never do.

      • “Well, here we have it at long last, a Vatican statement that the CCC is not a magisterial document.” Am I reading the same post you are? Because, that’s not what it says at all. It says since the Vatican II council, the Documents of the Magisterium have confirmed the teaching and it is especially clear in the CCC, which is one of those documents. No “question remains” about it. “People” have provided the magisterial statements, and Michael was nice enough to paste it in. It is not true that “they never do.”

        • Francis, the phrase can be interpreted both ways. Glad you noticed the other interpretation: This is the whole point many have been making and which is called “Vatican II Speek”. The language of much of the Church since Vat II is ambiguous and vague, at least when put in English. If you can comprehend this fact, then you might be able to understand the problem that is undermining the Church … ie no hierarchical leadership worth a toot.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Sorry Skai Francis is correct here. The author clearly intense to include CCC among magisterial documents. The Pope himself made it magisterial, despite your denials.

          • Anonymous says:

            Skai, maybe it seems ambiguous and vague because you do not understand it. Find someone who can explain it to you.

          • YFC, you simply are reaching over your pay grade, dude. It can be interpreted both ways, grammatically. But for you, emotional predispositional frameworks make it impossible to use grammar to discern what something says. You simply cannot win a round here on this one, because it’s two.

          • Anonymous says:

            Skai, what do you think magisterial means?

          • “It can be interpreted both ways, grammatically.” Just like this one: “Various comments of the illogical sort, and especially the ones posted by Skai, have spoken about the teaching of the Church on homosexuality.” Could be interpreted grammatically to distinguish Skai’s comments from those in the “illogical” category. Just like the Instruction could grammatically put the CCC outside the “Magisterial” category. All depends on your grammatical paygrade, dude.

    • What this pope has done has made himself very popular and admired in the msm and the world at large…as if Pope Benedict was just a judgmental and legalistic grouch who only followed laws and rules but didn’t love and forgive. It probably wasn’t done deliberately but that doesn’t matter because that is the result, and like a thousand feathers spread into the wind, can never be recovered. Such thoughtlessness, heedless of who will be hurt is going to have deep ramifications. It hasn’t even been six months and already everything is in turmoil. Fasten your seatbelts, people…

      • Pope Francis is making the elite look at the poor, and in doing so, it influences to some extent how they spend their monetary influence. This is a good thing, but the Pope is not the theologian that Pope Emeritus is, nor the philosopher that Bl John Paul II was/is.

  12. One homosexual Priest molested over one hundred boys. He also picked up male prostitutes and had a collection of photos of boys. Only a fool would allow a homosexual to become a Priest. It is just too dangerous. Anyone want to take any bets that some homosexual activist will try to convince me that the Priest was not really a homosexual, scout’s honor and go on by saying that engaging in homosexual acts does not make someone a homosexual. He was just a pedophile who did not have access to girls. He also did not have access to female prostitutes for some reason. He wanted little girls but could not find any so he tried to find some women prostitutes, but he couldn’t find them either, so he settled for whatever boys and male prostitutes he was able to salvage, but he really wanted girls. Yeah, that’s it. We are supposed to believe whatever homosexual activists say because everything they say is perfectly reasonable and they never ever lie, ever. Thanks Fox News Latino.

  13. So… the pope and the bishops imply that the Bible and church teaching are meaningless. As such, the church is meaningless. The church is now adrift and rudderless. I’m not leaving the church. The church is leaving me. I am stunned by the lack of wholesomeness in our once great church. The loss of souls to satisfy the lust of it’s leaders is reprehensible. I will follow Christ to the best of my ability. I will no longer accept the tainted, misguiding, and misguided leadership of the (once) catholic church. Their proclamations are baseless and therefore, meaningless and irrelevant. Have a nice day.

    • Jesus prays for us that our shepherds not be so ineffective that the flocks are scattered to the winds. But the shepherds are not robots, and so even though they read prayers to keep unified by being holy, not a few of them rebuke those prayers and go on their happy ways, twitting about in their rainbow tutuz.

  14. Mark from PA says:

    Skai, you just don’t get it. You are talking about one person here. Yes the man you talked about was a homosexual but you can’t blame a whole group of people for what one person does. Back when I was talking about Ariel Castro, a poster criticized me for badmouthing men. I was upset about the actions of one very sick man. The man you are discussing is another very sick man. Some priest go to male prostitutes, probably even a larger number go to female prostitute. Both are committing gravely sinful acts. Many priest are in relationships with women, some have even gotten women pregnant and left the priesthood to get married. But this only reflects on the individual priest. Not priests as a whole. The mistake you make it when you tar all priests or groups of priests with the same brush.

    • Canisius says:

      PA get this through your gay clouded brain… gays have NO PLACE IN THE CLERGY, they should all be rooted out for menace that they are

  15. Mark from PA says:

    So if I don’t believe that homosexuality is a disorder. does that mean that I am not really a Catholic and should stop going to Mass. That is not a matter of Church dogma. If one believe that homosexuality is something that occurs in nature and that some people are born with this orientation, does that mean that they should go to another church? Some people here go to SSXP churches, independent churches, so called Catholic churches that don’t accept the validity of the Pope. How are these people more Catholic than someone like me who goes a Catholic church that is part of the Scranton Diocese?

    • Canisius says:

      PA, I know you like to spread lies but the SSPX accepts the Pope but does not accept some of the nonsense of Vatican 2 and has been proven correct in their stance

      • Anonymous says:

        Yes, Canisius, you are correct, but Mark mentioned 3 separate situations-SSPX; independent churches; and so-called Catholic churches that do not accept the validity of the Pope. These do exist so he did not lie.

        • If the Sacraments are valid, then eeeeehhhhhaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!

          • Anonymous says:

            See The Merit of a Mass by Father Chad Ripperger, FSSP for an explanation of the intrinsic merit of the Mass which remains in any valid Mass and the extrinsic merit which does not remain if the priest is separated from the Church. The intrinsic merit is the glorification of God. Extrinsic merits would be the grace that the communicant and the church receives.

    • Mark, some people believe it’s okay to rob banks. They don’t actually rob banks themselves but think it’s okay for others because ‘the banks are crooked anyway’ or “they’ve got too much money ‘ or ‘my grandfather lost all his savings in ’29’ or a host of other reasons. The Bible says thou shalt not steal and it is a grave sin to steal. Even though this person doesn’t steal, he’s condoning it. Sometime he might even help someone by not reporting them because of his sentiment. Homosexuality is adultery, if nothing else, for those of you who are just incapable of getting it, and what does it say to you, Mark, when you read thou shalt not commit adultery? Should you be taking communion when you are in complete agreement with homosexuals? You comdemn yourself. I sure am not going to judge you. Oh, that’s right, Jesus was just kidding about hell. You’re much too nice to go to such a mean, nasty place. Why do you even bother contributing here? You aren’t interested in growing in your faith. You use this web site as your own personal soap box to expound your truly dark and manipulative intentions. Why do we bother responding to your deliberately obtuse and lying sweetness? You always come back to how natural it is for two men to rut like beasts and make a mockery of God’s beautiful creation. Like I said before, you’re a smiler just like Liberace with a cat that ate the canary smile.

      • And I’m sorry about your dad, Mark. It’s something we all can relate to. You don’t need a lecture now, that ‘s for sure. It is never easy to watch a parent die. I hope your church has a prayer chain for support. I’m just out of sorts right now because it is so frustrating dealing with so many changes in our Church, our country and even our local governments. Another pedophile on the front page of our local newspaper today. What are the odds of having dozens of pedophiles in a county of 40,000 people? I should have gone to a friend’s wedding w/my husband but they’re having it in a woods (allergies). Take care.

      • Dana, Mark from PA is entitled to his opinion. There is nothing anti-Catholic in what he wrote here. He is confused on the catholic concept of disorder. Sexuality is given by God for procreation and for the good of the man and woman. Disordered sexuality (whether heterosexual or homosexual or other) does not fulfill that. The Church is not speaking of psychological or emotional disorders. As the Church understands the complexities of human nature, it does not condemn anyone. The role of the Church is salvation. Also, Mark from PA has never condoned sodomy or anything unchaste. This website reminds me of an episode of All in the Family where Edith’s cousin has died and her lesbian partner is grieving. Archie is disturbed when he finds out she is a lesbian. Edith, while also disturbed by it, has respect for the relationship, the friendship, the love, the loss and the loneliness of the bereft partner and says concerning the sexual conduct “That part has nothing to do with it.” Archie replies by saying “That part has everything to do with it.” The truth is that while homosexual relationships include sinful acts, there is also an element of them which is love and care for another human being. Remember Jacinta at Fatima said “Many marriages are not pleasing to God.” She was not speaking of gay marriages.

        • Wrong, beGodly! Mark from PA told me himself that it was ok for ACTIVE homosexuals to commit sodomy as long as they are in a committed relationship. I know others can back me up on this statement that he made here on CCD.

        • Michael McDermott says:

          Ya almost had me going there for a moment, right up until the quotes from ‘The Gospel of Norman Lear’ – as delivered by America’s former “Beloved Bigot” / Leftist Meat Puppet = Archie Bunker.

          The ‘sit-com’ All in the Family was actually one of the most cleverly constructed pieces of mass propaganda in the hyrstory of television – and the cast were played for a purpose by radical leftist activists ranging from Carol O’Connor (Archie) to the “Meathead” who later led the Attack on Marriage – Rob Reiner.

          Each week would provide an Orwellian morality play in which Archie would fill the role of ‘Straw Man’ Conservative – and by the end of the show get the stuffing knocked out of him by an assortment of PC Mau Mau Artistes spouting the Hollyweird Homosex party line.

          As in Orwell’s masterpiece 1984 – Archie was made just credible enough to mimic some of the points of those he is painted as representing, before making a buffoon of himself while falling on his political sword.

          Thus Archie made a living taking a dive on behalf of the politically incorrect – seeing as they wouldn’t cooperate and do it themselves.

          Carol O’Connor was a sad man with a sad life, and as Lear’s man in the Bunker was overshadowed by the evil he served – and which eventually consumed his Son and others he worked with – and they caused harm to the nation as a whole that still festers like a dirty wound.

          • be Godly says:

            Sorry I lost you with the reference. The point is that neither Archie nor Edith accurately reflect the Church and God’s view. God detests sin but He loves sinners so much that He sent His Son that they might be saved.

        • be Godly, you simply do not know what you are talking about, especially with PA. PA strongly advocates for sodomy rights. He’s been doing this on this site for many years; he was pegged into a clear admission of it one time and by default many times. PA defies and rebukes Catholic doctrine on the issue of gay marriage. You cannot take one or two of his posts and get him figured … you have to read the entire “book” of PA, which many of us have done. Now, when you say the Church cannot condemn, and then you explain by saying the Church is Mr and Ms Giggles, you are pretty much betraying Church doctrine. Jesus is the Church. Jesus condemns. Thus the Church condemns. Jesus cautions us about condemnation and offers us the way of salvation. Why you socialists are always ignoring 90 percent of the Gospel is a wonder.

          • You have forgotten part of the Gospel when you say Jesus condemns. He is the Savior. Read the Gospel of John. The Church does not condemn. There is no way to do that. Even if one were to die separated from the Church, such as Archbishop Lefebrve, the Church does not condemn him. I am not a socialist and you are ignoring 90% of the Gospel. Your need to apply some label to someone you disagree with is sad.

          • Jesus is God, and as God condemns, Jesus is one with the condemnation. How is it so difficult to comprehend that, bgo?

        • That makes me feel really bad, Mark. Your dad came to mind yesterday while I was at Mass and I prayed for him. I’ve started going to another church myself, Mark, because in all the years I’ve been attending this church, no one has asked about my family or anything. I have to confess that it is something I miss from my protestant days. There was real concern for one another. The Presbyterian church I was attending had over a 1000 active members but when I’d missed a couple of Sundays the pastor came to my home to see if I was okay. I also had many friends and strong prayer support. We all can endlessly debate things here, but I do think there is also genuine concern for one another for many of us…it’s because we DO care that we get so ‘het’ up, I suppose. Also, I’m sorry I compared you to Liberace. lol Sometimes I get carried away.

        • I find it telling that you use a tv show produced by one of the most liberal people in the entertainment industry, b.godly. And I wholeheartedly endorse Mr. McDermott’s post, as usual. Yes, Mark certainly does have a right to his opinion, as do we all, but it’s because I care what happens to Mark that I continue to point things out to him, not to condemn him (other than the liberace jibe, which I regret) It makes me sad that so many people who consider themselves Catholic here are in direct opposition to Church teaching and even feel self-righteous about it. Because they think they’re being kind they support others who are often committing grave sin. Is this charitable? Really?

        • Entitlement to an opinion may put one on a fantasy throne, which in fact is the goal of the gay agenda.

        • Catherine says:

          This is an example of the “ungodly” chorus of compromising enablers with seared consciences. No amount of evidence will suffice. Their wounded allegiance is NOT first given to God. Their allegiance is first given to the disorder. This is a mutually disordered assuaging of the wound that seems to be wagging the world. It is another example of diabolical disorientation.

      • A: Mark says, ” If one believes that homosexuality is something that occurs in nature and that some people are born with this orientation, does that mean that they should go to another church?”
        B: Dana says, “You always come back to how natural it is for two men to rut like beasts and make a mockery of God’s beautiful creation.”
        C: CCC says, “Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”
        D: Deliberately misrepresenting someone’s words to make him look inhuman is unquestionably a sign of unjust discrimination.
        A + B – C = D

        • Michael McDermott says:

          Natural Dis-order
          If one believes that the ABCs of life in the Wild (Aggression, Brutality, Cannibalism…) are part of the natural order, where concepts like care for the sick and elderly are as alien as social security benefits for bears…

          Should they require a Church (say the Catholic Church, to pick a random example) to pander to such In-Humanity in order to make them feel more comfortable about their own choice of Behaviors – particularly if they were already born with a carnivorous orientation?

          Or is it kind of like a Drunkard who wants to turn the Mass in to a Whiney Cheese Tasting event, and can’t understand why some think such is better conducted…
          – Just about anywhere else – like a sleazy waterfront dive in Macau, or the Barbary Coast – or maybe a fern bar in the Castro.

          In other words – if it isn’t already part of the Mass, perhaps it is best to take it outside – the Church

          BTW – the ‘twysted systers of indulgence’ (the ones who dress in a grotesque mockery of Nuns) also feel they were born that way –

          Should the Church Discriminate against them, or should they be welcome to ‘come out as you are’ under the big inclusive rainbow tent at Mass Too?

          Maybe even let them hear a few ‘Confessions’ – but only the naughty ones, and only if they get to give out ‘special penance’.

          Or would that too be a grotesque hateful mockery of the Catholic Faith?

        • Francis, there really is no unjust discrimination when it comes to advocates of the gay agenda.

        • Homosexuality does not occur in nature, Francis.

          • Anonymous says:

            I thought you had dogs.

          • “Homosexuality does not occur in nature,…” is a puzzling statement that could grammatically be read two ways. It doesn’t occur in most humans’ nature, but the inclination does occur in some humans’ nature, as the CCC states. Doesn’t occur in most other animals’ nature, but the behavior does occur in some animals’ nature, as in bonobos, Japanese macaques and penguins, to name a few that have been documented in peer-reviewed literature.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            See MAC why the CCC is not clear…you have Francis who talks about what he thinks the CCC means…..see where the vague part comes in…that is why the CCC is not the only resource guide to find the truth…the truth can be found even in more clear and direct references approved by the church of course!

          • Homosexuals look at nature and claim they see sodomy. Their minds have been seared according to St Paul. Sodomy is not natural and does not occur in nature. The Church has always taught that sodomy is unnatural, and the Church has always taught that nature is natural. Only a depleted mind could fail to get this fact. I’ve observed wild animals, farm animals and pets. I lived on a cow dairy and a goat dairy. I know what animal behavior is. No animals are homosexual. There is lots of gay money working to pull the wool over the eyes of the gullible, and gays are definitely gullible. Trust God and do not trust the gay mindset.

      • Dana, in your response to PA, you have failed to uphold section 2416 of the CCC. God’s creatures give him glory and are deserving of much more kindness than you have shown them in your post. Please do not debase them in such a vile way by attempting equate them with lustful homosexuals. That is very insensitive of you. Perhaps you could use some sensitivity training. Just saying…

        • Yes, Dana, you should join the new movement called “save the animals from comparisons to gay people”. I will not be reading your simile to my dogs out of compassion for their feelings, and I’ll have to guard my mind lest my loving dogs somehow read it as I read it … it being the simile of course. (It was however.)

          • Yeah, I am really praying about my bad attitude, Skai. I confessed it and felt ever so much better about Pope Francis and the love he brings to the world. Like he asks us to do, pray for him! The secular world would just love to create more conflict and distrust in the CHurch. Be strong. Be firm. Be faithful, right?
            As for the beastie comment, bad Dana, bad girl! Sit! Stay…no walkies today. You can take your hands off your dogs’ ears now, Skai. They can now ‘paws’ and take a chow break and contemplate their dogginess with a nap. No similes or metaphors here to sully their ears.

          • Although my dogs are friendly Labs, they are acquainted with a few pits … and we wouldn’t want the metaphors to get to their ears … especially if they might jump their fences and go looking for Anonymous and its corrupt cronies.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            See how Skai has his own style…he is a cool guy! He is funny, we like his dogs! Its just people don’t get him…but who cares what they think! (but it’s still good to reflect if we are coming off wrong) Just stay faithful Skai….I recall in your older older comments, you really conveyed your passion for the faith but now…there are new people posting and I think they have you cornered in their games or they misunderstand you, don’t let pride or anger get to you….don’t fall for them and stay faithful to Christ’s church. I am praying for you and other good souls here.

            I appreciate also Catherine, Dana, RR, Fisher, Anne T, Rick D, MIKE etc etc(there are more but the list goes on)….you all have your own style and are faithful…please stay faithful always, don’t let the dissenters here play you and who cares if they try to discredit you, just stay consistent in your obedience to our Lord and reflect often…because we can also learn from their comments and we can receive them with humility!

        • skiven, I can only hope that you care about someone or something enough that you’re willing to say something that might even be called passionate or ‘not politically correct’. Might I suggest to you that you take your sensitivity training …and enjoy it yourself. I find your words not only insensitive but incredibly naive. I’m sure if you ever read St.Paul, especially in Romans 1, you would find him incredibly ‘insensitive’! There are no wounded sensibilities in hell, that’s for sure.

          • Hey lady, who are you calling insensitive? It is not me who is insulting God’s beautiful creations by comparing them to the lovers of sodomy. That is the most hateful insult that can used. The book of Genesis says that God looked upon all that he has created and saw that they were good. That is not my opinion, that is God’s word. How can you then have the nerve to compare these beautiful creations to the lovers of sodomy when God himself said that they are good. I am appalled. Saint Francis of Assisi and Saint Philip Neri would be ashamed of you. Stop dragging innocent creatures into the sewer with the lovers of sodomy. The lovers of sodomy are trying to drag as many as they can with them into their sewer. Stop helping them out. Geez…

          • Dana, I’ve said the same thing as Ski Ven a few times in the past. He said it better though. For your penance, read about the talking donkey, the errant prophet and the angel with the sword.

        • haha. Skiven, I can’t believe I missed your witty repartee. Friends? Maybe it’s not sensivity training I need but new glasses!! (not to mention hearing aids, walking sticks, et al) I wasn’t going to post here again because we’ve gone so far off the map already, but it’s interesting to see who’ll be the last man standing. ;o)

          • No problem, Dana. I wrote my comment so that its true meaning will not be too obvious to those that it was not addressed to since they will likely just skim over it. I adopted some the words of the other side for added effect. I figured that the person to whom it was addressed would take a closer look. I looks like it worked too well, since I didn’t take any fire from PA and his buddies and took fire from you instead. I guess we both now know that Skai is a careful reader.

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    • Mark:
      There is a difference between “objective” facts and dogma: Dogma has to be stated as such because it is not an objective fact. Whether you believe homosexual tendencies are disordered or not, the CCC and the Instruction enjoin you to accept such people with respect and sensitivity, and to avoid every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard. Avoiding “every sign” is a much stronger statement than “don’t discriminate.” It means not only you may not discriminate unjustly, you should not even give a sign or a hint that you discriminate unjustly. Since the injunction applies without limit, it ought to start with yourself: You must treat yourself with respect and sensitivity.

      • “You must treat yourself with respect and sensitivity.” Francis I am positive PA has perfected this

        • Sensitivity …I suspect that the government is trying to set up a system of rules to govern how we engage in empathy. I kinda prefer the way Spock went about this though … mind melding.

          • Ok, finally someone has looked up the meaning of “sensitivity” (me, I looked it up): “Sensitivity (human), the strength of physical or emotional reaction in people”. That is exactly what Ski Ven and others (me for instance) have been doing, and with as much gusto as can be mustard.

      • Catherine says:

        Good job. Now perhaps you’ll avoid every sign of showing selective hints of unjust discrimination and give an occasional hint that you defend something else besides defending homosexuality, disobedience and perversion.

  16. Mark from PA says:

    I found it interesting, Skai, that you never commented when I said that my son’s views on the death penalty are similar to yours and also his attitude towards women to a certain extent.

    • PA, let me explain the subject of your interest in the lack of comment by me on your son’s views. Now read this carefully, because it is sublimely difficult to comprehend. You may need to consult those nuns who taught you in first grade … are you ready? Ok, here we go: I did not see that particular blog of yours.

    • PA, just remember to chew sensitivityly when eating the apple.

  17. Mark from PA says:

    Hope everyone enjoyed a couple days without me. I ended up in the ER on Thursday and on Friday my dad ended up in the ER and is in the hospital for a while again. So say some prayers for my dad.

    • Mark:
      I am sorry to hear you and your father have been in the ER and the hospital. May you be well and may God give both of you strength and faith.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        PA I said a prayer for your papa. Thank you for letting us know. I hope all is well.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Thank you Francis. It has been a difficult few weeks for me because my dad fell and I had to call my son to come and put him in bed. I told him he was drunk and he argued with me. The next morning he told me that he slept really well. I asked him if he remembered falling. He didn’t remember. It finally dawned on me that after a certain time of day, he doesn’t remember anything. He mentioned that I talk a lot and I realized that he didn’t remember that at night we don’t talk at all. He didn’t remember when I used to come over almost every night and talk to mom, he didn’t say anything or was asleep. When they took him in and asked him questions I supplied the answers and told them how much he actually drank. He said that he didn’t drink that much. So he has gotten a mouthful from me the past few days. I came in today and had a nice chat this morning but when I went back this afternoon he said that he wasn’t an alcoholic and I lost it. They nurse took me out and said that I had to calm down and should leave. I went back to his room and said that I was leaving and he didn’t want me to go so I stayed and he talked more and I listened as I was so wiped out. My wife called and said to pick her up. She didn’t really feel like visiting him in the hospital so I dropped her off to shop. My dad appreciates what my wife does staying with him during the week but he doesn’t like the way that she treats me. I called my brother and he thinks that I am overreacting but he hasn’t lived with someone everyday for the last year. The last time he was here was Christmas.

        • Anonymous says:

          Mark from PA, we are dealing with an elderly parent who is losing part of his faculties. It is very stressful. We have another parent who is also having memory issues-alcohol use could be a factor. Problem drinkers always deny the extent of the problem. It is a difficult time of life for them and for those who care for them. God bless you and your family.

          • And so, Anonymous, you’re now forcing your elderly parent to substitute wierd Big Pharma chemical treatments for good ol’ fashion hooch. You musta just completed a sensitivity training course.

          • Anonymous says:

            Skai, the person has not stopped drinking and it isn’t hooch. It’s Bordeaux. And they don’t take meds except for one cholesterol pill. And you didn’t need to butt your nasty remarks in here.

    • Awright, PA, I’ll add you to my Rosary list for the day. Then you’ll owe me one, such as, say, for instance, changing the water into the wine, so to speak, by switching from “same sex attraction is ok” to praying for healing from ssa.

    • Catherine says:

      ER visits??? Always be prepared to face Almighty God. I hope you received the proper diagnosis for your specific visit and I hope you are feeling better. I hope your father is feeling better. Mark, you are showing your full awareness of your direct culpability just by your preemptive strike comment of recognizing that anti-Catholic comments are not missed. The proper diagnosis is to stop offending God by mocking God’s natural law. No defending same sex unions and unnatural acts on very anti-Catholic websites and on faithful Catholic websites or anywhere. The diagnosis of being in the state of sanctifying grace is the best healing remedy. It is also the best state to be in when God calls us at the moment of our death to give an accounting of our actions. It is a mortal sin to promote unnatural unions on websites. I am treating you with sensitivity and respect. I do not want to go to hell. I do not want you or others to go there. Please stop choosing to go there. An uncharitable person would encourage you to remain sensitively locked in your disobedience. Your greeting proves that you are *not that blind * but fully aware that you are deliberately offending & taunting those who DO respect God’s natural law. The diagnosis for the many individuals who coddle mortal sin is a *worldly epidemic * of serial placebo distributors of FALSE CHARITY. A contrite ER visit to the Divine Physician’s confessional box is the safest and most charitable recommendation plan for a complete and thorough follow up and check up visit.

      • Anonymous says:

        Really inappropriate!

        • Catherine says:

          “Really inappropriate!”

          I agree. Your false charity is really inappropriate.

          • Anonymous says:

            Catherine, may God give you the grace to see things as they really are. Your misinterpretation of Mark’s greeting as an awareness that he is “deliberately offending and taunting those who DO respect God’s natural law” is an example of how your mind plays tricks on you. Why can’t you see how much pain you have caused this person? It is an act of mercy to admonish the sinner, but you go way beyond that. You bear false witness; you gossip; you are harsh and uncharitable; you exaggerate his fault which is a form of lying; you commit slander and calumny. Please worry about your own sins. Remove the plank from your eye so that you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Well Anony…I see Catherine’s true charity….it is you who needs to see things the way they really are.

            Life would be better if we had more true friendships like in Catherine…I would feel more blessed to have friends like her cross my path or stay in my path.

        • Catherine’s first four sentences started out well enough. I hope she feels better soon.

        • Anonymous, I did some google research and discovered that you have not completed your annual sensitivity training refresher course. Dude, you need to get down and get done. PA is depending on the sensitivity that you are negligently denying him. While you’re at it, you should look into an exorcism for your harsh ways.

    • Anonymous says:

      Mark from PA, I hope you are OK and that your trip to the ER was nothing too serious. I hope that your dad will be OK, too. We will pray for him and you. I think your first sentence indicates that you are letting the turkeys get you down-as we used to say in the ’70s. Jesus loves you. The majority of people who read CCD really don’t agree with the meanies.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Anony your comment is so hypocritical….It just make me puke. The meanies??….where you learn that from…a tv show… are you making PA feel better? Not surely by speaking ill of others……Shame on you!

        PA I said another pray for your dad….I know how you feel, when my dad was alive, I went through a lot of ER visits and such. . My heart is with you and your family. God bless your papa…..I mean that…I miss my papa…so enjoy yours while he is with you now….no matter how we may be, as imperfect as we all are….it is good that you are taking care of your papa. Take care….

    • PA: Hope everything is ok for you and your dad. I will say some prayers for both of you. You were very kind to me when my mom had health issues a few years back. You said prayers for her as well as others here on CCD and I appreciated it very much.

  18. Contrary to Skai’s false assumptions and false statements, no one worships the Bible or the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”. We do not worship the Saints either. Only God is worshiped.
    Jesus gave authority to loose and bind to his Pope and those Bishops who are in communion with him. Mt 16:18-19.
    Catholics must adhere to the teachings in the Bible and the CCC – since it is from Christ’s Magisterium. Those who choose not to, are heretics and/or schismatics.
    When Skai states that the CCC does not contain the “Doctrine of the Faith”, his pride places himself above the Magisterium, and he calls Blessed John Paul II a liar.

    • JOHN D, you simply have no understanding. I never said one should not adhere to the CCC. Your primary point of stupidity is that you present the Church as an idea, a strawman, and then you base your entire absurd rant on that strawman. You also flat out lie by saying that I state that the CCC does not contain the doctrine of the faith. You bear false witness against me when you accuse me of dissing Bl JPII. Some of you third grade reading level bloggers really need to take some remedial courses and try to overcome your emotionalism.

    • Specifically, JOHN D: “We do not worship the Saints either. Only God is worshiped.” Who exactly do you mean by “We”? Are you the spokesman for mankind, for the Catholic Church, for bloggers? Or, whom are you speaking for by the use of “we”? Let’s now see you stutter and stammer out some phoney, presuppositional absurdity that belies your ignorance of both God and man. But try it, try to surprise the discerning reader. See if you can successfully extract your foot from your mouth.

    • Hey, like bingo, JD dude: You’ve driven me to research “reason”, which I did. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, your blogging would come under the category known as “Kantian” reasoning, ie a chaotic semblance of mental activity.

    • Mark from PA says:

      We do not worship Mary or the saints. Only God is worshiped. The saints are venerated and our prayers to them are prayers of intercession. We ask them for their prayers.

  19. Mark from PA says:

    Dana, thank you very much for your kind comments. When mom died I had dad put on the prayer list at church. Since my mom died, nobody from the church has contacted my dad to talk or anything. Kind of sobering as he was one of the founding members of the parish.

  20. Mark from PA says:

    beGodly, thanks for your comments.

  21. Mark from PA says:

    Francis, Abeca Christian and Anonymous, thank you so much for your kind thoughts and support.

  22. Mark from PA says:

    Skai, thanks for the Rosary. I think I am entertaining to you. My dad isn’t into religion anymore. Ever since he stopped driving, I took my mom to Mass and he didn’t go. When I turn on EWTN, in a minute of two he changes the channel. You would have loved him. He was a good storyteller at the bar and even told stories about women propositioning him. He slipped and told me some things recently that were shocking. He also belonged to the National Rifle Society but I throw that stuff out now. Someone actually called from the NRA and I gave him a piece of my mind he was very polite and kept saying “Yes, maam, Yes maam but didn’t cut me off. I had a good laugh when I got off the phone. You would love my dad, Skai, going to the bar and telling crude stories and all the rest. I always thought he was the perfect father so now I know that yet again I was living in some “world of nice” as some like to say. But one loves their family faults and all. My son said to me the other night, “You don’t deserve this.”

    • Abeca Christian says:

      PA out of respect for your papa…your comments came off mean spirited to Skai….I am so sorry that you have a lot of anger but this was uncomfortable to read ..your comments that is…I wouldn’t consider writing such things about my papa on a website because I was angry at people but I will try not to judge you on this…..

      Can you see what gay activism does….especially on a Catholic website….it makes faithful people not comfortable and you have to expect their freedom of speech to say that they disapprove of your actions to advocate those gay rights stuff….I have not taken this time to say those things to you because I was being sensitive to your situation….I meant it when I said I would pray for your papa….you may say those things about your dad but remember that you too when you get old, your kids will have their say as will, hopefully they won’t vent about it on a website….no one escapes that….God bless you and take care….God give you peace and strength during this time….

    • Oh no PA! I am shocked! I mean totally shocked! All this time I thought that you were such a sweet cuddly teddy bear that little girls like to hug which says “I love you” whenever someone squeezes it. I would never suspect that you would find it funny if someone came onto this website and said that the ten creepiest people on the earth are at this website, especially if that laugh came at the expense of JLS and me. No, never, not you. You are too sweet for that, sugar. Now I find you bad mouthing your daddy while he is sick and trying to imply that Skai would enjoy his negative traits. I am stunned! That is so not you. You are supposed to be a sweet, innocent, perfect angel that the rest of us are too vulgar to appreciate. What happened?

  23. Mark from PA says:

    Catherine, I am speechless.

    • Mark:
      Every heard the saying “take what you like and leave the rest”? When dealing with difficult people, I often find it helpful.

      • Catherine says:

        Francis asks…..”Mark …Every (ever ) heard the saying “take what you like and leave the rest”?

        ‘We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires.”
        Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger

        Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the church is often labeled today as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along by every wind of teaching, look like the only attitude acceptable to today’s standards.
        Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger

        • Catherine says:

          by BENJAMIN WIKER Monday, February 25, 2013
          …Relativism is a poison. It attacks our most human capacity, the capacity to seek and know the truth, including the moral truth. A dictatorship of relativism imposes by real cultural force (and even by political force) a no-standard standard, a command that all must imbibe this poison.
          At first blush, it would seem contradictory to have relativism united to dictatorship. Isn’t relativism just a healthy dose of humility, a way to cool the intellectual or religious hot-head who insists, “I, only I, have the truth”?
          The proof of the pudding of relativism is in the eating. How has it fared?
          “In recent years I find myself noting,” Cardinal Ratzinger said in his Without Roots, “how the more relativism becomes the generally accepted way of thinking, the more it tends toward intolerance. Political correctness … seeks to establish the domain of a single way of thinking and speaking.”

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Catherine, do you think that there is a possibility that there are others who hold the same faith, who listen to the same Gospel, who worship the same Lord as you do, but who find that Christian charity compels them to act differently than you do? You are so obsessed with one teaching, the prohibition of gay sex, that you cannot even bring yourself to react with charity to a fellow pilgrim who, though gay, has not even had gay sex. Thus the totality of the Gospel is made to be subservient to your own obsession with one relatively small teaching within it. Having had a very loving mother, I can tell you that a warm smile can sometimes do more to correct a wayward child than the wag of a finger.

          • Catherine says:

            “I can tell you that a warm smile can sometimes do more to correct a wayward child than the wag of a finger.” :>) REPENT YFC!

            I am sure that the particular fellow pilgrim (MarkfromPA) will truly appreciate the fact that you have just admitted or inferred that he is indeed a wayward child.

            This has absolutely nothing to do with being obsessed about “gay sex”. YOU are the one here who is obsessed with “gay sex”. YOU are so obsessed that you bragged about mocking God with your chosen”lifestyle” the moment you arrived. If homosexuals choose to commit mortally sinful acts, then they are using their own free will to choose hell. That is their choice.

            The issue IS not about homosexual sex. The issue is the reality of the existence of a lavender mafia that has placed a distinct choke hold on the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church in many places. This is also why many evil laws are being passed. As the Church goes the world goes. The lavender mafia worked extremely hard to eradicate proper catechesis in the United States and that is NO smiling small issue. It is a large issue that has never been properly addressed or dealt with. The recent court decisions are a very LARGE issue and these evil court decisions by “so called fellow Catholics” are evidence of the many compromises and sins of omission that have been wrought on to society due to the deliberately designed choke hold on proper catechesis of the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. Don’t you dare refer to that as a “small issue.” That would then make you a very large liar. YFC, :>) REPENT before it is too late!

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Catherine, may I remind you that Mark does not engage in homosexual sex! Yet you treat him like he’s a piece of garbage on this site, even while he carries the burden of caring for a sick parent. I am pretty sure I have never in my life encountered such a mean-spirited “Catholic” in my life. I wish you the best and as much healing as possible.

          • Catherine says:

            “I am pretty sure I have never in my life encountered such a mean-spirited “Catholic” in my life.”

            :>0 = Thank you! That is actually a tremendous compliment coming from a person who likes to rub support of sodomy in the face of God. Mean-spiritness is in the disordered eye and thoughts of the homosexual beholder who promotes deadly mortal sin on a faithful Catholic websites.

            : >) REPENT.

          • Anonymous says:

            Being mean is like being gay in that once a person accepts it and takes pride in it they will never try to change.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            YFC how can you say those awful things to Catherine. I want to give you a visual that hopefully will help things be clearer…
            There was a guy friend who has a girl friend who was pregnant and she didn’t know by whom. The guy friend viewed himself as Pro-adoption kinda fellow, but didn’t believe in meddling in a woman’s decision to choose after all it is her body. He drove her (accompanied) her to the abortion clinic…..he didn’t want to hurt her feeling so he just went to support her and waited in the waiting room, but then a few minutes later he felt the hairs go up arms….he felt awful that he drove her there and showed the wrong type of support, so he prayed and sat and did nothing more to stop her or convince her to choose another option. What I missed to mention was that before they walked in the abortion clinic, there was a young lady trying to discourage them from making the wrong choice, what i neglected to mention was the guy friend thought that the young lady was cruel and mean for scaring his girl friend. His friend also thought that the young lady was a mean spirited Catholic, who obviously didn’t understand. Little did they understand that she did understand, and that is why she was out there to pray and help people choose life.

        • Anonymous says:

          It had nothing to do with moral relativism. It had to do with overlooking another person’s fault.

      • But you always come back for more, Francis.

    • Catherine says:

      Mark you selectively left out the fact that I told you that I hoped you and your father felt better. Mark, I know why you are speechless. You have also been busy posting on anti-Catholic websites. My post to you was extremely charitable. considering the fact that you were not too distraught or too busy to publicly write this 3 days ago.

      markfrompa • 3 days ago
      “Pope John Paul II’s treatment of abuse victims defies understanding. He never responded to even one letter or plea? It seems that he thrived on adulation. He loved being treated a certain way. He surely didn’t want to meet any abuse victims as he probably wouldn’t get adulation from them. I read somewhere that he went to confession once a week. I hope that he confessed this and also confessed his mistreatment of people that he thought were less then nothing. I hope that he confessed beating himself with a belt if he happened to get aroused or for whatever sick reason he did that. I don’t understand how anyone can think that they are pleasing God by abusing or mistreating their body. It seems twisted to me.”

      So Mark when I posted the importance of being prepared to face God and going to confession and sinning no more I was following the teachings of the Catholic Church and the example of Christ who told the woman caught in adultery to stop what she was doing and go and sin no more.

      • Anonymous says:

        Catherine, Jesus does not like gossip or self-centeredness and He sure doesn’t like being used as an excuse for it.

        • Catherine says:

          Merriam Webster Dictionary

          Definition of ENABLER: One that enables another to achieve an end; especially : one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Before you preach Anony…pull the rod out of your own eye’s

          Sorry Catherine that Anony is being super rude to you…Anony doesn’t see real charity when it see’s it.

        • Anonymous, kindly refrain from passing on such gossip, the last resort of people losing arguments to others who use facts and reason.

      • JMJ 4 ever says:

        Catherine, you always mistake a Christian for someone who is defending homosexuality. Have you ever read the Gospels? Do you know the teachings of the Church, the teachings of Christ? I have been pondering on why a person would write the things that you do. I have been wondering if you were raised in the type of family where the parents were very strict and punitive? Were you raised in an environment where you had to obey or get punished? Were you ever shown love or were you loved only if you obeyed? Are you able to have authentic, mature relationships? I hope that you are not as unhappy and miserable as you seem to be in your posts. You seem as if you are always looking for wrong and even spying on people. This is not how God wants us to treat each other. I hope that someday the Light of Jesus Christ will shine on you and in you at all times. The blessing of Jesus and Mary come upon you and remain with you. Open your heart to their Love.

        • Catherine says:

          “I hope that someday the Light of Jesus Christ will shine on you and in you at all times. The blessing of Jesus and Mary come upon you and remain with you. Open your heart to their Love.”

          Your lack of sincerity and your lack of love for the authentic teachings of the Church is the ONLY thing that comes shining through. You are not the least bit interested in anyone’s childhood, that is unless it was a childhood that now promotes the homosexual agenda. You are ONLY interested in enabling. You do NOT believe in “all” the teachings. of the Catholic Church. If you did you would not need to slyly dream up a new name every 10 seconds to enable evil. You would be pleased to identify yourself as the same poster because this would show your loyalty to all Church teaching. You also have no business calling “yourself “JMJ 4 ever”….. because you NEVER stand up the teachings of the Church when it comes to our homosexual activists. Jesus had words for this kind of poisonous duplicity.

          Matthew 23:33-37

          Douay-Rheims (RHE) New International Version (NIV)
          33 You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell?

          • JMJ 4 EVR says:

            Catherine, everything you said about me was untrue. Satan is the father of all lies. Jesus, save this person from her deadly sins of anger and false witness. Mother Mary, wrap your mantel around her and all who she tries to influence. St. Joseph, guardian of our Savior and our Blessed Mother, pray for her to see the Way, the Truth and the Life. Holy Spirit, descend on this person and all Catholics so that we only do your will and not our own. Remove from us the blindness and the hardness of our hearts. Create in us a new heart like the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary. May the triumph of the Immaculate Heart show forth in us.

          • Catherine says:

            “Catherine, everything you said about me was untrue. Satan is the father of all lies. ”

            Then stop lying and enabling error.

          • Many gays display the same sort of flat affect in their writing as they do in person. They toss around terms and names, and try to take over their target’s own understanding rather than engage in a debate or discussion.

          • Anonymous says:


        • Abeca Christian says:

          JMJ 4 ever then pray about it….could it be that you find this uncomfortable because you have not been tested….

          We usually find that people who are new or some who are trolls post just in the nick of time to come to the rescue of someone who they may not know very well from the past….you have to pray and trust that the regulars here, who do defend the faith, already know the games that some of the regular pro-gay rights activist usually commit here….

          it’s a constant battle, not only on here but even in life outside of these walls of the web….there are many enablers and not many challenging anyone to stop their hypocrisy and walk passionately seeking the ways of the Lord.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            We have been tolerant of PA…we care for his salvation very much and of course of our own ….:

            “Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory. Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of all stability.” Bishop Fulton Sheen

          • Abeca Christian says:

            “Patience is power.
            Patience is not an absence of action;
            rather it is “timing”
            it waits on the right time to act,
            for the right principles
            and in the right way.”
            ― Fulton J. Sheen

          • Anonymous says:

            You should be intolerant of all sins, abeca, and not defend the ones committed by those you feel a kinship with. The friendship of partners in crime is not a holy thing.

          • JMJ 4 ever says:

            abeca, you should care for everyone’s salvation and not jeopardize your own. The Holy Trinity loves you and desires you to know God better and to live His Life in fullness. You have a good instinct and a good heart but you must train yourself in the True Faith. Reading the writings of Venerable Fulton J. Sheen is excellent, but you have been asked by the Pope himself to read the Vatican II documents and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. If you don’t have a strong foundation in the teachings of the Church. you can be misled by people who mix truth with untruth. You are too dependent on others sometimes and too trusting. Start today to fulfill the wishes of God as expressed through His servants Pope Emeritus Benedict and Pope Francis.

        • jmj4, you’re spouting psychology and not Catholicism. Your mentor is the late Sigmund Freud, who is a fraud. You’ve fallen into the snare of a phony religion that masquerades as Catholic.

          • Anonymous says:

            It is very interesting that you bring up mentoring. What goes on here a lot is unwanted mentoring. Healthy relationships do more to influence someone.

          • Skai, a phony religion that masquerades as catholic?

          • “really?” Just when I thought the knuckle draggers had all gone off to their hollowed out trees, this … Look, just get a dictionary and look up each word. Then find a grammar primer and arrange the words so’s they make some sense to you. Keep at it until you get it.

          • Anonymous says:

            typical Skai. Someone points out his hypocrisy and he reacts like they don’t know what they are talking about.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Well, Catherine, I suppose you forgot to put in the part about how Pope John II was always my hero when he was Pope. He was one of the few people that I considered a personal hero. The other one was President Kennedy. I read many books about Pope John Paul II and I even saw him when he was in Philadelphia in 1978. And yes, I did read where he went to confession once a week. If someone read something else, please tell me. If he went to confession he also considered himself a sinner. Catherine, I think it is terrible that Pope John Paul II showed such compassion for abusive priests, even to the extent of allowing many to remain in the priesthood but never met with any victims. If anyone knows of his meeting with victims, please let me know. I think it is terrible that people knew about Father Maciel and protected him. That man was a sociopath. Pope Benedict XVI thankfuly dealt with that evil man but it should have been done earlier. I realize that in later years Pope John Paul II was diminished in his physical and to a lesser extent his mental capacities so that can be an excuse for his actions in this matter but I still think that the abuse crisis is a terrible black mark for our Church.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Catherine thank you for exposing this….you are a true Christian…
        There is so much hypocrisy here…you have those who advocate the CCC but are so busy attacking and even bearing false witness against one, while they dismiss the biggest promoters of dissent in regards to the CCC. This is truly disturbing to me…this is something that seems to be growing to a high popularity. You did noting wrong Catherine….you exposed what many who seem to think that their friends are those who act one way but on the inside they have their own agenda’s that they truly promote away from the church, they are the real ones whom we should be careful about.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Catherine this Anony character that acts like it’s faithful to the CCC of the church….but they are not….they only use it to suit their agenda and they are all about appearances…..poor Skai….they attacked him but they let Anony get away ….

          they lack discernment….they lack to see who really are the deceivers.

        • Catherine says:

          Your welcome Abeca! God bless you!

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Catherine boy this blog sure was heavy wasn’t it……they hate me for defending Skai….I guess I just know him better due to all his comments from the past….he may need to try a different approach because in some comments there are misunderstandings that convey concern..I know he is humble and will reflect. I feel him like a brother as I feel you as a sister too….maybe I do come off as a harsh at times but right now the way things are….this is the only place where I read people post with conviction….many a times people lack convictions in Christ but we must remember to pray and focus on humility always so we won’t rant or come off as like self righteous people…

            “For me prayer is a surge of the heart, it is a simple look towards Heaven, it is a cry of recognition and of love, embracing both trial and joy.”
            -St. Therese of Lisieux

          • Catherine says:

            Abeca, Thank you again sweet sister in Christ. I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. Abeca, you do not come across as harsh. You always convey a great conviction of love for Jesus and a love for those who are rewriting the gospel to suit their temptations.

            Abeca every time I have spoken the truth to my women neighbors regarding abortion I am aware that they do not want to hear the truth. I am aware of the fact that some of these women have aborted their children but the truth should be told in a charitable way. I know that deep down inside that these women know how wrong this is. The reason I know this is that many of these same women will later come and knock on my door and ask me to pray for an ill relative. A few months ago I ran into a neighbor who is pro-abotion who had moved away over ten years ago. This neighbor was baptized Catholic but she received no Catholic education or example from her parents. Abeca, the very first thing that she said to me was., “I want you to know that I still carry inside my purse that rosary and that scapular that you gave to me.” This is why it is very important to have convictions that are pleasing to God. Abortion is not pleasing to God. Homosexual acts or unchaste unions are not pleasing to God. Artificial contraception is not pleasing to God.

          • Anonymous says:

            No one hates abeca. And no one hates Skai. We are supposed to instruct the ignorant. That, too, is an act of mercy.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Catherine you are right and I agree, we are to be pleasing to God….that is what I strive for…I daily reflect and ask Him if I was pleasing to Him.

            Catherine sin is sin and we are not to have false compassion but true charity for all….I feel safe with good friends who care for my salvation…that is far more important to me, and I know its important for you too. : ) Thank you for your true charity. God bless you.

        • Anonymous says:

          …Then if they say they have no agenda you wonderful Catholic women pounce and say they are not a true Christian…saw someone fall for that hook, line and sinker on another article…

      • Anonymous says:

        There goes Catherine, creepily spying on other CCD commenters. Maybe she has a little help from the NSA.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Catherine is not ignorant of your games….she knows better than I….I appreciate her exposing what she found…..on the web you can run into anyone without looking….

        • Abeca Christian says:

          Nope Anony wrong again…stop your attacks on Catherine!

  24. Mark from PA says:

    To all that are interested, alcoholism is a disorder, it is like a disease, an addiction. Homosexuality is an orientation. Comparing alcoholism to homosexuality is like comparing a dog to an iron. Take it from one who knows. Some homosexuals are alcoholics but to compare the two things is craziness, they are totally different.

    • PA, too bad you and your dad were not closer. It might have saved you a life of gayness. But you do make a good point that homosexuality and alcoholism are two different things … good work, keep it up. You’re obviously going through some difficult times where sensitivity is not being dealt out by mortality. PA, sensitivity is a good thing, but not the way the feinds of gayness, feminism and the politically correct brigaydes have twisted and spun it into in the public mind. Gays distort everything and sensitivity is one of these things. You must try to understand your dad who obviously has been trying to convey to you the most critical things in life.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Skai, my dad was a great dad, but he was out working all day. He was a heavy drinker but he didn’t drink until after work and this was normal to me. My mom was a stay at home mom so I saw her all day on days off and when I was little and in the summer. On weekend my dad would take me on errands and to his club where he would have a few drinks and I would have a chocolate bar and chips. I remember one year he took me out to a restaurant on Saturdays for clam chowder, another year he used to take me to Newberry’s for a hamburger and french fries for breakfast as this was a treat for me. On Sunday’s we would go to 8 AM Mass and later in the day he would take me to his club like on Saturdays. All my male relatives were heavy drinkers and this was normal to me. My mom’s one brother never married. He was my dad’s age and was drafted with my dad. They ended up being bunk mates. He was very quiet. I asked my dad recently that I wondered how he ever made it in the service. My dad said that he had a rough time of it. When he was in the nursing home my Aunt (Uncle’s wife) told me that my uncle told me that he was sad because he was shy and had never kissed a girl. My Aunt said that she gave him a big kiss. So my uncle was very likely what we would call gay and never even knew it. Take it from one who knows. This is possible. So you see I most likely inherited this from my mom’s side of the family. From what I have read homosexuality does tend to come from the mother and prenatal hormones and influences do play a part. In recent years as my parents have been aging, I have seen them almost every day. Especially since we told my dad to give up his driver’s license, which he did.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          I wish you didn’t talk so ill of your dad…..

        • Mark PA, I did not want to get into this discussion but I felt I needed to say some things. First I am sorry for all the sad events you have gone through and will pray for you and your family. The second is that I knew a man with a practicing homosexual son. There were also three others in his family who were said to have SSA tendencies. There were no people with SSA tendencies on his wife’s side, though, for at least the two generations that were well known as all were married heterosexuals, so it could not have been genetic on her side. Nevertheless, the father of one man was an alcoholic, and the mother of the first one I mentioned did have a drinking problem during her lifetime. She did not seem to be a full-fledged alcoholic but went on binges at different times in her marriage but would stop for years than go back. I am not drawing any conclusions here; just stating the facts.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            How is this helpful….genetic….homosexuality it not genetic! How is this story helpful….

            Pray for his dad but stop writing hogwash…

          • Abeca, I said nothing about it being genetic. Quite frankly, one of the practicing homosexuals molested his own nephew. It is quite possible there was more moslestation going on in that family, but I do not know for sure. I did not want to bring that up at this times because of what Mark is going through but you forced the issue. The point I was making is that Mark PA was wrong when he said SSA is usually genetically contacted from the mother’s side since in the family I mentioned it all seemed to be on the father’s side.

          • I am not saying that that is never the case, though, as a hormonal imbalance in some is quite possible. I know a very orthodox Catholic priest who thinks SOME of this is from women bombarding their bodies with estrogen from the Pill and it affecting future children, especially boys. I think he and Mark PA are right in SOME of the cases. In other cases I think it is from experimenting as children and not outgrowing the behavior or from molestation into the habit as a child. In other cases it is quite clear that the actions of a parent or parents contributed to the behavior, although in the end the child makes the choice. I know of one young woman whose father dumped her mother for another woman and the girl decided she wanted nothing to do with men and ended up in a lesbian relationship. I know of another cases where two of the children got into trouble because the mother and father were cheating on each other right and left. There was also at least sexual harassment of at least one of the daughters by the father when he got drunk. The third child seemed to learn from the situation and manage to keep herself out of trouble.

          • And lest I be accused of picking on men, we all know that there have been cases where the mother was at fault instead of the father for the bad behavior while inebriated.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Anne T thank you for clarifying. God bless you : )

        • “my dad was a great dad, but he was out working all day”: Here we have PA’s whole schtueck in a nutshell. His dad was great but “but”. PA, it’s that “but” that you need to overcome. You need to get rid of that “but”. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long and you don’t turn out to be gay.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Skai, you should be ashamed of yourself. Mark’s relationship with his father, now or then, has nothing to do with being straight or gay. The cruelty you display in your comments serves no purpose other than to degrade another human being and another pilgrim on the way to the Father.

          • Mark from PA says:

            Canisius, would have liked my dad. Mayvbe you would have liked being taken to the bars as a kid. You would have liked having my dad going to all your baseball games. My dad probably would have given hyou drinks to taste if he asked when you was a kid. He probably would have taken you on all those fishing trips that he went with his friends. The other men took their sons but I never got invited because my dad knew I didn’t like to fish because I didn’t like to see things die. I was pro-life even back then. My dad liked Playboys and he probably would have even shared them with Canisius as he used to buy them for friends when they were in the hospital. He never showed them to me because I expressed disgust at “dirty magazines” when I was a kid. But Canisius, my dad would have loved you for who you were. My mom is another story. You would have given her a rough time for sure. My mom was very gentle and nice like me. You don’t seem to respect nice, Canisius. You would have liked my mom about as much as you like me. Did you hit back when you were a kid? Would you have hit my mom back if she hit you?

  25. Mark from PA, I am sorry that you are going through what you are going through. Parents are people, too. And they are flawed and they are fragile and they need for their children to love them in spite of all that. I will pray for you and your dad and your wife and your son.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      k excellent comments….your comments were kind…you are right and sometimes kids exaggerate and sometimes they may paint a false picture of their parents….kids I mean by even adults kids….I know of a few who where always bitter at their parents but that’s because they were tying to make themselves look better and use as an excuse for their bad actions…

      • Abeca Christian says:

        What I’m trying to say is that there is always two sides to the story…sometimes there is their story and then there is the truth….

      • abeca, the general rule is that children internalize parents at their worst.

        • k, that is absolutely insane to say kids internalize their parents at their worst. Why don’t you numbskulls study Catholic stuff instead of this modern psychoreligion garbage?

          • Abeca Christian says:

            k that is untrue what you say….I never get you k, sometimes you say things that are within reason, common sense but then you say things that make me go “huh”. There are so many people thinking they know psychology or they follow the modern psychology views, that it is not even close to the truth.

        • Catherine says:

          k has internalized the progressive enabling of error and disobedience.

        • Anonymous says:

          An example would be Canisius and his mother. I was not using the word internalization to mean the psychological definition of how children adopt the morals, values and behavior of their parents. I was addressing how-and this is with adult children of parents with a major fault that negatively impacts the child’s life and relationships-the parent’s fault becomes the defining image that the child has of the parent.

        • Sorry that was me.

  26. Michael McDermott says:

    According to renown Hibernian Mixologist Dr. Michael Finn (aka Mieky Finn, of the Frisco / Shanghai employment referral service) – the main difference between a connoisseur of the bubbly and a wino – is the wino seldom removes the brown paper bag before drinking..

    Hence, I digress momentarily in to the semantics of getting sauced.

    An Alcoholic is Not Necessarily a Drunkard, nor vice versa. There are many Alcoholics who have solved any and all problems with alcohol abuse, by simply abstaining from any and all strong waters.

    Likewise, a Drunkard may not be inclined towards Alcoholism per se, but rather maintains a more or less constant state of inebriation for a host of other ‘valid’ reasons, like the way it improves their looks or as a prophylactic for snakebites.

    However – as an Analogy to the Disordered Nature of Homosex ‘orientation’ – versus the massively harmful effects of Homo-Anal Coprophile Behaviors, the Alcoholic / Drunkard comparison holds its liquor.

    Chronic Drunkard Behaviors can sometimes be masked by other conditions, say like attending college – but the consequences to Health (physical, mental, emotional. financial…) eventually catch up with devastating effects.

    So too with Homo-Anal Coprophile Behaviors, which cause both physical damage to the lower colon / bowels, as well as pathological (disease spreading) harm, like from participation in the Meth & Viagra fueled ‘Conga Line of Buggery.’

    Of course for some it is simply a matter of carrying on time honored traditions – Like the Breakfast of True Coprophile Champions – Beer, Twinkies & Buggery.

    • Hey, McD, what’s up with putting the Twinkies in with the gay buggers? I thought Twinkies are the symbol of sharpening the pruning hook?!

  27. Mark from PA says:

    Canisius, I remember when I was young my Uncle Pete and his wife used to go to my grandmother’s they used to stop at our house on the way. The lived in New Jersey. My dad and my uncle would have a couple of drinks and then we would go. They would usually stop in Scranton for a drink and then go on and stop at another place for a drink. It was usually a three hour trip. I told my dad that I didn’t understand why they would have let me ride with my alcoholic uncle, back before we had seatbelts. My dad said that he wasn’t an alcoholic, he was just a heavy drinker. I never really talked much to my Uncle much as he found me annoying. (Go figure!) My uncle entered the army when he was 21 (in 1936) and served several tours of duty, leaving after the war. Even though he was an alcoholic and never had any kids, you would have been better being raised by my uncle than by yours family. He probably wouldn’t have found you annoying and would have enjoyed your war stories.

    • PA: At least he wouldn’t have been abused by his lesbian mother and her lesbian partner. Totally sickening what Canisius has had to endure because of these two lesbians. Children deserve a mother and a father and not gay “parents” or a drunk from the service who loved guns. He deserved better than both of these situations. A drunk is no example to a young boy/man and two dads and two moms can NEVER make a child truly happy! EVER! A child deserves and needs to have a loving, gentle, caring, nuturing mother and a child needs a father for strength and to do boy/man things. Two men can NEVER be a mother and two women can NEVER be a father. They MIGHT be able to care for the child’s needs, BUT they can NEVER fulfill the needs of both a mother and a father. My husband used to coach my son’s little league baseball team. There was a lesbian couple who had an adopted son who was on my husband’s team. That little boy craved my husband’s attention and wanted to learn so much from my husband all about baseball. That little boy was deprived of a dad who could teach him all those things fathers teach their sons. I think it is terrible that you mention Canisius’s past like you did here; who he would have been better with. It’s too bad he didn’t have BOTH a loving mother and supportive dad. I feel such sadness for him. And by the way PA, why have you always claimed that you had such a wonderful upbringing and now all of a sudden you have told a totally different situation of your upbringing? Your dad is an alcoholic and you fight with him? Funny how you have never mentioned this before now. What gives?

      • Mark from PA says:

        Actually , RR, I never did fight with my dad. We actually have mentioned that in our talks this weekend. I annoyed him when I would ask him if I could get him something else to drink but we never fought because I was an enabler. That is why I was so upset because 2 weeks ago for the first time my father said something in anger to me and the next day I realized that he didn’t remember it and that after a certain point he didn’t remember things. This has been very painful for me.

        • Mark from PA says:

          RR, my Uncle had a wife. She was a real clip. She was always talking about her sisters and her nieces and how she made doll clothing for her niece’s Barbie’s. She worked in a garment factory too. She was not Catholic and divorced when my uncle married her. They had no children but I was just saying that Canisius would have been better off with my Aunt and Uncle, I should have qualified.

          • Canisius says:

            PA, I shudder to think how I would have turned out……yes my upbringing sucked, however by the Grace of God I did not venture down the dark path that Satan had clearly offered me… and he did…believe me he did..

        • Also, PA, two same sex parent wannabeez are incapable of being honored, because of the Fourth Commandment … thus, God abhorz gay “parents”.

      • Yes, I noticed that too, RR. The reality of it all is coming to the surface.

      • Canisius says:

        Another example of the Misandry that is endemic in this culture….

      • Canisius says:

        RR,,, yes it was bad, but I have managed through it, with the help of Johnny Walker, firearms, strippers, then finally Jesus Christ… all those others were just obviously a facade and do match the strength of the Prince of Peace…on a side note I have been told that my abuser (“the life partner”) needs double hip replacement surgery and still suffers pain in her jaw after I shattered it with a clothes iron…My sister (my twin) who speaks with my other sister has stated my mother is finally feeling remorse for all that she did…..

        • Canisius: Sounds like your mother is finally waking up, but until the “partner” is gone your mother is still lost and needs help. I feel so sorry, Canisius, that you had to endure what you did, but something good always comes out of something bad. The good is that you are a warrior for morals and values and you chose God and not the world, the flesh, and the devil. I’m sure you are still tempted, but you realize from the grace of God that you have help and can go to God and the Church for strength.. We all have temptations to deal with in life, and some people really have major crosses to bear. You seem to be one of them, but remember that God sends the most trials to the ones who love Him most because He wants you to go to Him and trust in Him. God Bless you, Canisius!

    • The concept “alcoholism” is a construct designed to line the pockets of counselors and govt employees.

      • Anonymous says:

        I thought you said that your brother was an alcoholic.

        • Anonymous, I was setting you up to see if you’d remember. But use this as a lesson about the various ways a given word can be given unrelated meanings. Easy to do, by looking up some words in a good dictionary and then observing definitions of the word, in that often some of the definitions have no connection with each other. So, be prepared for the next time I trounce you for failing to understand and for presuming to understand.

    • PA, the “voice” you apply to all your family stories is really distant. Never do you really indicate that there was or is any normal closeness between you and your family members. It is like you are a third party narrator almost uninvolved in the relationships … relationships which seem extremely minimal, sort of like relationships in name only. Contact Joe Nicolosi and hire him to repair you.

      • Your Fellow Catholic says:

        Skai, I don’t really think Mark needs your analysis of his family. He has asked for compassion and prayer, not a critique of his family or a referral to a guy in California whose therapies are suspect. Give Mark a kind word and a smile instead of your ever-present judgement, please.

        • YFC, PA is a soul calling out for reparative help. You would not be expected to be sensitive enough to pick up on it, probably because you’re out there trying to pick up on someone else.

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Just remember, Skai, every time you click “return” on your posts that insult and bear false witness, you are committing a sin.

        • Well, ok, I can generate a smile to PA 🙂

        • Mark from PA says:

          Thank you, Your Fellow Catholic. I have read about Nicolosi and NARTH. I have looked at the site. It is quackery. If you want good information go to “The Wild Reed” by Michael Bayly. He has written some things about NARTH. Courage needs to disengage themselves from NARTH because NARTH spouts outdated junk science. Your Fellow Catholic thank you for having the courage to tell the truth here. People need to listen to what you say.

          • Canisius says:

            PA, YFC proudly marches in gay shame parades why should any of us listen to what he has to say, he is perverted inside and out…

        • King Clovis says:

          I have met Dr. Nicolosi…he is a licensed, board certified psychotherapist and Ph.D, with many years of counseling experience under his belt. He is a brilliant and caring catholic psychologist. The archdiocese had a falling out with him years ago, when he told them that they had “WAY” to many gays entering the seminary…of course they didn’t want to hear this, because they wanted more gay clergy!…the aftermath of this evil is ongoing child molestation, and the largest payout for clergy abuse in the nation…and believe me this problem is not going away…unless the Church STOPS ordaining gay men to the priesthood…nuff said

          • Your Fellow Catholic says:

            Nicolosi victimizes his clients, and there is more support for that statement in the public domain than for your claim that he cures people. In short, Mark is right when he says NARTH is quackery.

          • Canisius says:

            No YFC, your phallus worship is what is fake

          • Abeca Christian says:

            King I agree

          • Abeca Christian says:

            YFC hostility towards reparative therapy reminds me of the gay activists who threatened the safety of a young man who wanted to leave the gay lifestyle. They name called any efforts that the young man made to soul search, they discouraged his free will choice to want healing… YFC may not be as extreme but the homosexuals slashed his car tires, they called his home phone in the middle of the night threatening him, he changed his phone number several times etc…it was ugly….

  28. Mark from PA, I have offered my communion for your dad and am keeping you and your family in prayer. My heart is sad for what you are going through. We never know what is ahead of us, do we? God bless you.

    • Mark from PA says:

      Thank, you k. We have been doing a lot of catching up.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        PA the tables usually turn…..none of us will escape death….and those who have parents and have kids, their kids will go through the same stuff with their kids etc….its the circle of life but what matters the most is what is most pleasing to God…remaining faithful till the end…even if it means losing friends and family over it….

        I went to a funeral where there were hundreds of people attending, the person did not live an honorable life and everyone kept saying how much this person was loved because they counted the number of people that attended. Where as the year before, a good friend past away and she was always a faithful person to her faith and usually kept to herself but cancer took her home….she didn’t have a lot of friends here so she had a small humble funeral with just a few who loved her so much….I would have considered her a saint because she suffered so much before she died but she was faithful praying her rosary daily.

      • Mark from PA says:

        When I was visiting in the hospital with my dad, he told me that he loved me very much and that he was going to stop drinking. I know this will be hard for him. He still says that he is not an alcoholic after all that I have told him. When I leave the hospital, he kisses me goodbye and tells me that he loves me. After my mom died, when I would watch my dad off to bed he would kiss me good night and tell me that he loved me. This was odd to me as my dad never did this as far back as I can remember. I love my dad very much and I loved mom very much. When my dad was younger he was movie star handsome. My mom was very beautiful. I always thought I had the best parents. I thought that I was homely and weird when I was a teen and wondered what I did to deserve such wonderful parents. When I was little if I annoyed my mom she would smack me but it didn’t really hurt. My dad would tell me he was going to get the strap but when he said this I would start to cry and he wouldn’t hit me. I don’t remember my dad every hitting me. My dad pampered me. My brother also said that he had a perfect childhood. He is quiet and has a nice personality and was also a favorite with some of the nuns that taught him and some of my relatives. For people who say that being gay comes from bad parenting, I can tell you that it is a bunch of garbage, it is crap, lies. NARTH is telling people lies. Every gay person that I have mentioned it to agrees that it is garbage. I told about my mom’s brother. Being gay is a genetic trait. It is like being left handed, and I am left handed too. Gay guys have a higher percentage of being left handed.

        • Mark from PA says:

          Catherine, when my mom died, Bill Lindsey from the blog you mentioned sent me a sympathy card and a note that he made a donation to a local church in my mother’s name. That is true Christian charity. Getting some kind of a kick out of kicking someone when they are down is just sick.

          • Mark from PA says:

            At the moment, I am glad to have my dad back. It was like he was dead and now he is back. Now I just need to get my body to calm down because my blood pressure is sky high.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            PA go for a nice walk, go swimming and don’t drink anything with Caffeine…I found that Caffeine usually raises blood pressure some. Hopefully that will help you relax…it’s not easy seeing a loved one ill, so my heart is with you and especially your dad and family. take good care

        • The drinking is a cover story, PA. Seek the aid of Joe Nicolosi. NARTH can hook you up with somebody in your area who is well qualified to help you recover that which is critical and yet which you may never have had. You owe it to your wife and family.

          • Anonymous says:

            Nicolosi is a fraud.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Well the real face of Anony….true deceiver…

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Skai you are a true friend…I was humbled by your charity towards PA from your comments from August 5, 2013 at 4:13 pm.

            If only more folks had that true charity. The saddest thing in life is to have people enable any sinner….I hope that I can have more true friend in my life and in my kids life’s as good people as Catherine and you, as Dana, Ski Ven, Rick Delano etc etc…..the list goes on…..but I will take what I’ve got…..

          • Anonymous says:

            abeca, I am one of the anonymous posters here. There is more than one. I agree that using the default causes confusion. I used a name but got criticized for my choice so…

          • Anonymous says:

            I wouldn’t even let my kids on this website. This is adults only stuff.

        • PA, your diatribe is so anti-relational that it boggles the mind. But at least you’re beginning to open up. Nicolosi is a devout and faithful Catholic. Reparation means repair. That is what Jesus is all about, PA, repairing the damage. You do not see yourself as a victim of damage but your posts are textbook classic examples of it. If you are as faithful and strong as you like everyone to believe, then why are you afraid of NARTH? You come across as so “dainty” and “delicate” while claiming to be a man of strong faith … Don’t you see the utter nonsense you’ve concocted about yourself? You need to get it fixed before it fixes you and all those around you.

          • Anonymous says:

            Skai, if you look at his website, he treats people who are at the crossroads of wondering whether they are gay or straight. He does a specific therapy on people who are upset that they might be gay.

        • PA, stop getting your information from gays … they always deceive.

  29. Particularly for those who are confused about – the TRUTH of what the Catholic Church teaches and believes – please read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” for accuracy.
    It is not always possible to get the truth across in a blog, and a few posters profess to be “Catholic” when they only intend to deceive you.

    A good introduction to the CCC on the internet which includes quotes from our last 3 Popes and links to documentation is: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”.

    • Mark from PA says:

      Thanks Abeca Christian. My BP is permanently high from this, at work and relaxed it was still 160 over 90. I feel dizzy and semi-confused all the time and it is the BP. So even though my mind is coping OK with this, my body is not. I am going to the doctor’s tomorrow to get help. After visiting dad in the hospital it was 148/110. I rested a bit and waited for my wife, so I in a chair with my eyes closed, after 15 minutes of rest, I felt very dizzy and took my BP and it was 176/110. So I am a big mess.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        PA there are natural remedies to help with lowering your blood pressure…it comes with age and diet too. My father in law was given medication and it came down pretty quick. So I don’t know what your doctor thinks but it may help. I would try the natural remedies too…..I am more towards natural remedies and then if I have too, then I try what the doctors suggest. When my papa was real sick, before he passed, I was always stressed and concerned for my papa. I loved my daddy. So I can sympathize with your stress and also I’m sure you have other issues as well…go on a walk with your wife, talk to her and vent…..that helps too….maybe therapy is what you actually need right now. Take care…..prayer always helps….pray the rosary and meditate on scripture….etc God bless.

    • Abeca Christian says:

      Andy you sound like a commercial….just saying…. yes that may be true but you keep avoiding the concerns that are brought to the table for real dialogue on how the CCC needs to be improved and “what Catholics really believe” ….it is not something recreated but we have been believing Catholics since Christ’s passion on the cross……

      I wonder who you really are…there are several who post in the same style like Andy but they never really answer honestly. I have no doubt in the CCC but the way they come off across can be misleading too….for those who are not Catechized well…I pray you seek the truth well and put the puzzle together better with the help and guidance from the Holy Ghost….

      Its just silly how you start off your comments with “particularly for those who are confused about – the TRUTH of what the Catholic Church teaches and believes – please read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” for accuracy.” How will they know that they are confused? What guidelines do you have that constitute confusion? Or do you consider them confused if they wish to study from other approved references? Don’t forget it is a reference and there are many other approved tools as well to be more accurate in case the CCC comes off as vague.


  30. Mark from PA says:

    Skai, I don’t know what you are talking about

  31. Are there any catholics writing in this group or are they all a lot of protestants?

  32. Middle of thread runs for a while on JLS and Skai: One of these is my inner child, not sure which though.

    • PA is his inner child, and this is the only personal unity he can boast of. PA, seek repairment of your wounded self by turning away from your gay community activists and towards Jesus and Blessed Mary Ever Virgin. Call upon your guardian angel to guard you from evil sex maniacs who constantly seek to push you into further perversion.

  33. Abeca Christian says:

    Well it does not matter…what people think or say about us. At the end of the day, we meet with our Lord in prayer….reflecting and conversing with our Lord, surrendering our faults and seeking healing from our ABBA our Lord.

    “Humility, Christian self-examination, begins with recognising God’s gift. It is something quite distinct from shrugging one’s shoulders at the way things are going. And it has nothing to do with a sense of futility or discouragement in the face of history. In one’s personal life, and sometimes also in the life of associations or institutions, there may be things which have to change, perhaps a lot of things. But the attitude with which a Christian should face these problems should be, above all, one of amazement at the greatness of the works of God, compared with the littleness of man.”
    Conversations with Monsignor Escriva de Balaguer, 72

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Abeca, your Lord is a Scandanavian pop band? I bet your favorite song is “Dancing Queen”. 🙂

      • Abeca Christian says:

        YFC because you are a homosexual I can’t fault you for the way you view things, the error of your ways… wrong as you are…I can only pray for you and for the conversion of all sinners but at the end of the day……..all I can do is look at you with tenderness and accept every insult that you give…..for they only help me humble myself even more….. (and I am not being sarcastic either, I say this because people have malice in their hearts and always think its said in malice/sarcasm when it is not)

  34. King Clovis says:

    Dr. Nicolosi is despised by gays…he cures them…they don’t want a cure…they want chocolate starfish…

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      WEll King, I reject your premise that NIcolosi “cures” gays. If he “cures” gays, there must be thousands of ex-gays running around, right? His techniques and results must have been published in peer-reviewed journals, right? There must be hundreds of counselors who’ve trained with him and have gone on to “cure” thousands more, right? So where are they?

      August was supposed to have been “ex-gay pride month”. Except that it was cancelled because of lack of participation. There was then supposed to have been a gathering for “thousands” of ex-gays. The day before the event, the producers went on the radio and said that the world would see these thousands gather. Well, it never happenned. There was a press event, sure, and when the cameras pulled back, you could see the handfull of organizers, and basically no ex-gays.

      So “cured” gays is vaproware that destroys lives. If you want sworn and uncontested testimony of the victims of Nicolosi, consult the official transcripts of the Prop 8 trial.

      • A woman has the right to choose but a man doesn’t. The homosexual mafia will see to it that he will not be liberated from unwanted homosexuality. What an authoritarian, repressive, jack-booted bunch!

    • I don’t know what a chocolate starfish is, King, and I’m sure you’ve read this story, but I wonder what those who promote homosexual unions think of it, being such ‘faithful Catholics’ and all. From the BBC: The homosexual couple promoted by the British government to help sell the state’s new gay marriage legislation to the public have now claimed that the policy does not go far enough, and are considering suing the Church in yet another push to redefine the institution of marriage.
      Barrie Drewitt-Barlow, says he and his civil partner Tony will go to court to force churches to host gay weddings. He told the Essex Chronicle that he will take legal action because, “I am still not getting what I want”

      • Also, King CLovis, I’ve heard Dr.Nicolosi on Catholic Answers and he is utterly brilliant and well-spoken. I would put my money on his incredibly researched and well-thought out information in a debate with the best the homosexual lobby could throw at him. He would win hands down because what in the end he is promoting is truth…with a capital T!
        That’s T-R-U-T-H which will always out in the end. The only people who will be hurt by this in the end are the children who our government seems to feel deserve to be aborted, abused, thrown to pedaphiles and homes with ‘fathers’ and no mother or with ‘mothers’ and no father. What we have, folks, no matter what side you’re on, is a government that wants us all to fail and disintegrate. What we have is a government that is throwing away at a phenomenal rate what our parents, grandparents, etc. fought and died for, and while we’re all here bickering, we’re about to lose it all. Does anyone here care at all that our government is actively seeking our destruction?

        • Also, while I’m about it, I will say that the lowly, sneaking and snivelling little toads (sorry for the insult, toads) who are reading our posts, our private emails and listening to our cell phone conversations and tapping our telephones and now have the technology to listen to us even while not on our cell phones represent what this regime, this banana republic two-bit police state is really about…it is about hating goodness and fair play, it is about despising families and God, it loathes honesty, free thought and tradition and patriotism. This scum wants to take away our freedoms and anyone that cannot see that is delusional. What set me off was, as I was typing the above post, it hit me that some creepy little nerd was probably reading this as I was typing or at the very least, as soon as it airs. Think about it!! This is happening right now. It is real. It is absolutely wrong and unacceptable. So what are we going to do about it? Wring our hands? Get back to our bickering?

          • PS…I just read this on Fox news…just a snippet…Security analysts say the sophisticated spyware dubbed Flame was created by government programmers, and among its many features, the program is able to turn on a target’s Web cam and record video (all without turning on the telltale flashing recording light). In addition, hackers routinely use programs called remote administration tools (or RATs) to switch on a victim’s camera remotely, effectively turning the video camera in an office or living room into a private CCTV monitor.

            Read more:

          • So go ahead all you homosexuals, join hands with the anti-God, anti-Catholic, anti-family government you voted for. Rejoice all you liberal so-called Catholics that say you love Jesus Christ that the man you voted for is going punish us all for your ignorance and political correctness. Our chickens are going to come home to roost. Any regime that is led by a sociopathic liar is doomed from the start. We’re running on fumes. No one is even putting impeach stickers on their cars they’re so afraid. Why are there no protests anywhere? Because we’re all afraid and hope it’s all going to go away somehow . Well, history has proven again and again that these bullies don’t go away. They will push until they have it all. That’s all I am going to say.

          • Dana,

            You know you’re now on a list as a terrorist, don’t you?

            Listen, I very much agree with you about the direction of our government. And, its not a party thing. BOTH Bush and Obama have grabbed enormous amounts of central power. Judge Andrew Napolitano said it the best, “We now have the infrastructure of a totalitarian state.”

          • Anonymous says:

            Dana, anyone with the internet can read your posts. It is a public website. It is not private. When you post things on the internet, you are making a public statement.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Dana very well said!

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          If Nicololsi was so brilliant, don’t you think the Yes on 8 side would have used him at trial to couunter the testimony offered to show how damaging he was to plaintiff’s witnesses?

          • Joe Nicolosi is a well balanced man in all respects who is faithful to Jesus Christ. It is God’s gift to him and to others through him. He repairs according to the way of Jesus. Gays hate this because they hate Jesus, despite their fawning and fake words to the contrary.

          • Jonj, of course I’m on a list. All you have to do is be involved in prolife or write letters or speak out. That should deeply concern everyone here. I’m not a political person but I love freedom to worship, freedom to express ideas and I have simple desires, like choosing my own doctor or letting God decide when I’m to die, God bless you Jon! I will add that my views are in contradiction to my family, who voted for this regime.

  35. Mark from PA says:

    I suppose I really need to leave here. Catherine can keep you updated by stalking what I say on other sites.

    • If you leave, God bless you. If you stay, God bless you. It’s too bad. I was thinking about helping the website with a donation but maybe it would just be supporting evil. There is good here but they do provide a forum for people to sin against others. Catherine gets away with what she does because of who she is.

    • Catherine says:


      You have been given the gift of free will. It will be your choice to choose anti-Catholic websites that mock Our Lord’s Church and mock God’s natural law or choose faithful websites. It is duplicitous and wrong to think you can do both. My prayer is that you choose to be faithful instead of choosing the broad road but ultimately it is your choice. For many years, wolves in sheep’s clothing have taught you and enabled you to think that you could do both and still call yourself a faithful Catholic . That is not true. No man can serve two masters and this is how you are fooling yourself while also being enabled by like minded activists. The Catholic Church is a precious gift that has been given to us by Jesus. There are explicit teachings and you do not accept them at this time. Explicit means that these teachings are stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt. You still reject those teachings at this time. These teachings have not been safeguarded and society reflects this. Our shepherds were charged with the duty to safeguard these teachings as firmly as a good parent safeguards their child from all harm. Harm can come to a soul in the form of many lies that distort and mock God’s Laws. Anti-Catholic websites will lead you away from God with the false messages of those who want to rewrite the Gospel in order to call sin something good.

      • Anonymous says:

        He was being facetious, Catherine. Sheeesh.

        • Abeca Christian says:

          PA I will not permit you to lie… one is stalking…..on the web..,,,there are many other blogs and if someone ran into you, well that is life…..You are just ticked because your deceptive ways have been exposed. You should take a break so you can tend to your spirituality and your papa. Stop acting like a victim and stay in prayer. Stop worrying about Catherine…..she is a good soul, harmless and loving. You are lucky that she actually cares unlike the others who enable you.

  36. King Clovis says:

    You are not a fellow Catholic my friend…you are a dangerously disordered sodomite, who encourages other’s to indulge in this perversion!…this is not a lifestyle of health…it is a lifestyle of physical and spiritual death, that is eternal…homosexual activity can never be endorsed or approved…it is a revolting and putrescent lifestyle, that is at enmity with the Catholic Church, and her teachings on “faith and morals”…gay men enjoy cruising underground gay bars, that breed a whole host of lethal std’s…you savvy?

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Dear King – I’m savvy. I’m savvy to the homophobes around me.

      • YFC, did anyone ever tell you that you can be a real boor sometimes? It’s like listening to an old 78 rpm record with the needle stuck on a piece of jam playing the same scratchy words over and over and over and over and over. Don’t you ever have an epiphany, a new idea or even something not related to what’s below your belt? Take a cold shower. Try reading something by Doestoyevsky…or better yet, Isaiah. All of Isaiah.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Hi Dana – Haven’t heard from you in a while. I hope you are doing well. BTW in case you haven’t noticed, the vast majority of my posts are simply to stick up for myself and for those who are marginalized by posts here on CCD. Someday, I pray, I won’t need to boor you. BTW. You might want to look up the definition of that word. 🙂

          • I suppose I’ve misspelled it? haha Is it bore? I’m thinking of how the English spell it …eg : in a mystery where one of the well-intentioned but frankly self-absorbed characters exhibits boorish behavior. They pronounce it Booo- rish. Besides, as a Catholic and Christian I shouldn’t even have words like that in my vocabulary quiver. Life is just one slippery slope.

      • Canisius says:

        Homophobes are not real, they are a creation of the homosex left,

    • Abeca Christian says:

      King Clovs you are a good soul…glad you caught on to YFC’s actions here…..but I still for some reason hold hope for YFC and still continue to pray for him and others. Join me to pray for the conversion of all sinners, which includes our own as well.

  37. King Clovis says:

    NARTH is right…NARTH works…Dr. Nicolosi and Dr. Kaufman are 2 of the shining light’s in the treatment modality of “gay’s”, through behavior modification and humanistic existentialism…that’s what I like…that’s what I resonate with…that my friend is AUTHENTIC!

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      Where are their success stories? They ought to have thousands by now. THey cought to have been lauded by whole legions of therapists who have been trained in their technique. The nightly news ought to be filled by story after story of successful outcomes of this “therapy”. Where are they, King, playing Hide and Go Seek?

      • King Clovis says:

        The nightly news isn’t not filled with these stories, “not your fellow catholic”, for a very good reason… because nobody in our over sexualized, media driven, narcissistic society really cares!…Think about it, outside of the few people on this blog and a group of defiant sodomites, who really cares?…

      • The success stories are that NARTH is continuing to draw clients and the wrath of the gay politians who have discovered a way to manipulate gays to gain power and wealth.

  38. Michael McDermott says:

    Regarding NARTH – there is another organization with a Jewish Perspective on the issue that is well worth checking out – JONAH
    Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality


    The Arguments Against Change
    By: Rabbi Daniel Meir Horowitz – July 2013

    There has been much debate and heated discussion over the issue of changing one’s sexual orientation from that of homosexual to heterosexual. The “ex-gay” phenomenon has drawn incredulity, laughter, venom and vitriol.

    Emotions, however, contribute nothing to the debate except to draw attention away from the real issues. One does not need to be a scientist, doctor, theologian or protester. One merely needs to be a logical human being who attempts to analyze the pros and cons of attempting to change one’s Same-Sex Attractions (SSA) into something else.

    Let us begin with the fundamental assumption that NO ONE will ever achieve real change if it is forced upon them. The person themselves must truly want it. This means that for whatever reason they feel that SSA does not fit in their lives, be it for religious, emotional, practical, or other motivations.

    This is a universal concept that applies to any form of behavior or personality modification. If a parent, peer, religious advisor, et al. convinces a person to attempt to change, when the person themselves does not really want to, not only will it not be effective, but can be detrimental and dangerous.

    It is possible for a person be motivated by their religious beliefs to change themselves so they can live in a way that is in line with their religious dictates.

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      JONAH is yet another quack organization with nothing to show for itself except damaged victims.

      • King Clovis says:

        Quack victims?…think of the sodomites who are seeking out victims to spread the aids virus…via man-on-man action…does this turn your stomach YFC?…it surely does mine…think about it…sodomites cruising for other men to sodomize…like “vampires”…who use blood as a transmission route to spread the death-dealing crud!

  39. King Clovis says:

    YFC…tell us all about the “good life” of being a sodomite…tell us how wonderful it is…how does being a dirty sodomite enhance your prayer life and lead you into a state of grace as a “Roman Catholic”?…how do you feel championing this perverted, gravely sinful lifestyle, that leads to hell, after ingesting a “mountain” of antiviral drugs to pin down the dreaded aids virus, all to no avail?…gee, sounds like the good life…(dripping with sarcasm)…

  40. Mark from PA says:

    When I met my wife she was a senior in college. She was active in college Republicans and since I was a Republican I joined up. I used to go to Mass almost every day at the Newman Center and she would always show up before Mass to visit with me, but didn’t go to daily Mass because she wasn’t Catholic. She did start going to Sunday Mass so we always sat together there. We became close friends and after a few months started going together. We always used to spend time at the Newman Center. The chaplain there was like a big brother to me and she liked him a lot too. She had never had a boyfriend before me and I never had a girlfriend before her. She lived a distance away but I used to go see her every weekend and write letters and call. We were both virgins when we got married. I didn’t know anything about sex but it was nice. However many months after we were married I lost my temper because I lost money in a newspaper machine. When we got home my wife told me that she was mad, later I asked her to give me a hug and she wouldn’t, I said please give me a hug and she started hitting me. I ended up with bruises. After that I really didn’t care about having sex so we only had it on occasion after that.

    • Mark from PA says:

      When I was a teen I never had sex dreams or fantasies. I have also stated here that I found Playboy magazines disgusting. But I actually did buy one once. When I was 21 after I had known my girlfriend for over a year but after she moved home , I went to a store and bought a Playboy magazine, I also bought a Playgirl magazine. I didn’t really want the Playboy magazine but I was too embarrassed to buy just a Playgirl magazine. I took the magazines home. I looked at the magazines. I threw both magazines out but I cut some of the pictures out of the Playgirl magazine to save. I don’t think I read any of the articles. I put the magazines in a bag and drove to a place where there was a garbage can and threw out the magazines. I was confused as to why I liked looking at the pictures of the men. So I would buy gay magazines every once in a while. When I got married I threw out the magazines. For years I never bought a gay magazine. I thought that I was just a straight guy with a quirk that would one day go away. I never discussed this with myself, I just figured it would go away. About 5 1/2 years ago my mom had a stroke and was in the hospital. Later that week a friend’s husband was almost killed in a car accident. Then my uncle died.

      • Mark from PA says:

        The day of my uncle’s funeral a friend of mine’s 18 year old son was killed in a car accident and her younger son was paralyzed from the waist down. (He is alive now) Since my mom had been in the hospital I had sleeping problems. After my friends son was killed I would wake up at 3 AM in the morning and cry. I did this for a few days until the funeral. After the funeral I would still wake up early and think. I thought something was wrong with me. I started writing my feeling to a priest that was a close friend of mine. Over the course of a month, I accepted myself as gay. My priest friend wondered what took me so long. I started going to a counselor. I have enjoyed it. She is also Catholic and is a great person. She asked me at the first session if I was gay and I admitted it right away. I told her a lot of the stuff I told the priest. This has really helped me but my wife thinks the counselor is evil and put thoughts into my head. Again, I know 100% that God makes us gay. It isn’t something we choose. I think I am about 5 or 7 on a scale of 0 to 10 but my best friend told me once, “Darling, you are a 10.” So I laughed. Hate is a terrible thing.

        • Anonymous says:

          Mark from PA, you are very brave to tell your story in such a hostile environment. Reading back over this blog, I can see how many of the post just put more thorns and sorrow into the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart. So I am leaving. There is way too much sin here. I remember one of the visionaries saying that the way to heaven is to respect the faith and to live a simple, peaceful life without meanness, malice or falsehood. Sometimes in trying to stand up for the bullied, I fall into things that are displeasing to God. I am struggling very much right now with health issues and dis-ease. I know that being on the internet too much (sitting too much) exacerbates this. I am leaving because I know this website is an occasion of sin for many. I will pray for you and for all of your family. You have a lot to offer up. God bless you.

          • Yesireee, Anonymous, anouncing one’s gayness is one of the most heroic acts that man can do. If we’re going to redefine biology by political mandate, then why not keep it rolling (oops, sorry for the pun) and redefine mythology, folklore, religion to suit … a rainbow colored suit?

          • Mark from PA says:

            Thank you Anonymous. It is a learning experience being here. I remember when Matthew Shepherd was murdered. I was horrified by those Westboro Baptist people. I was so thankful that Catholics didn’t feel like that, that Catholics don’t hate gay people. By coming here I have learned differently. It is puzzling to me why some people seem to need to have a group of people to hate. For some it is gays, for others Jews, for others black people. Some people may hate several groups of people. Some may hate Demoncrats. After Matthew Shepherd’s death we had an interfaith service in his memory. The theme was “Stop the Hate.” For many years after, our parish had a “Stop the Hate” luncheon in October. I always took time off to attend. It seems that some people feel strengthened and empowered by their hate. What did Jesus teach?

          • Remember that the Catholics that you find online, such as on this website, are not representative of actual Catholics that you find in your parish. A good number of the people here haven’t set foot in a Catholic Church in years. Also, many of what is called the right wing fringe visit here. I feel bad for newly converted Catholics who come here and think this is what Catholicism is all about. The people in your parish are what real Catholics are like. If you will read the message from the bishop of Scranton, you will see that while Catholics stand up against gay marriage, we do not stand up against gay persons. The Catholic Church is here for salvation, not for condemnation.

          • Abeca Christian says:

            Anony the only hostile environment that I experience here is coming from the gay activist and their constant undermining of the faith and bullying towards those of faith here loyal to the truth.

          • Canisius says:

            ” It is puzzling to me why some people seem to need to have a group of people to hate” Why are you so puzzled by those of us who see our Church and Culture under daily attack not resort to hate against those who causing and allowing all this to happen… I detest how gays have infiltrated the Church especially in the clergy, as I have stated in the past I taken some on directly and will continue to do so with a vengeance until the Holy Church is cleansed of their filth….

          • Drew, real Catholics follow Jesus, not the people in the pews. Like, dude, that is lesson one in Catholicism. You’d best check where you go sundays to make sure it’s not a voodoo church.

        • Depends what the object of “hate” is PA

          • Michael McDermott says:

            Jesse Dirkhising & Matthew Shepard – Both ‘Hate Crimes’?

            Gaystapo Targeting of the Catholic Church and its Wise Moral Teachings, relies heavily on Misandrist Hate Propaganda against said teachings, spread from inside the Church as well as out.

            The laser focus by the lamesteam media on the “sex abuse scandal /pedophilia” – while carefully avoiding terms like ‘Homosex Abuse’ or “Ephebophile / Pederast” – mirrors the spin of a murder during a robbery gone wrong by crank junkies, that turned in to a National ‘hate crime’ Law.

            While avoiding any mention of the LARRY BRINKIN Racist Toddler Boy Rape ring (apparently run out of the ‘in-human rights’ comm in Frisco) and similar episodes of the ‘happy life’ – recent posts have invoked tha Name of Matthew Shepard – without properly accompanying it by Discussion of the Jesse Dirkhising Homosex Hate Crime Case – forever linked to it.

            Shepard (a Homo-Anal Coprophile with infectious Aids, possibly the result of rape as a boy) was robbed and beaten – like others maimed with the same blood covered 357 later that night – whose only mention as ‘Victims’ was in a 1999 article in Vanity Fair ‘Crucifixion of MS’ that described the background.

            By Contrast – Jesse Dirkhising (13) was drugged, bound and raped by two vile homo-anal coprophiles – who ate sandwiches and watched joking while he asphyxiated in a pile of filth.

            Although both occurred in the same time frame – The trumpeting of one and blanket of Censorship over the other (guess which) remains a Deep National Disgrace.

  41. Mark from PA says:

    My father finally admitted to me today that he is an alcoholic.

    • That’s a big step. God bless you all.

      • The ol’ rose colored glasses, again, k?

      • Catherine says:

        k , You are the same enabling activist who underhandedly *marginalized* Father Guarnizo’s “BIG STEP” of denying the Blessed Sacrament to a compatriot activist named Barbara Johnson. You dished the dirt on the priest in Texas who took a a very heroic “BIG STEP” in upholding Church teaching on homosexuality. You thought that the story below was a “big step”. You ran interference by posting enabling excuses for showing the lesbian themed play Stop Kiss. Father Zampelli directed that play. Your posts enabled support for the drag shows at USD and you defended the decision of the Catholic high school play ‘Cabaret.”

        (BTW the word *marginalizing* is the latest modern day buzz word for enabling homosexual activists and pro aborts)

        k stop *marginalizing* and undermining the clear teachings of the Catholic Church. Stop your insidious form of homosexual activism. Stop lying. There is no such thing as a kinder and gentler /homosexualizing activist who undermines good priests. There is NO love in your consistent enabling of sin while *marginalizing* faithful priests and those who do not buy your transparent truckloads of cherry frosted dung. You are only soothing your own seared conscience at the very costly expense of the souls of others.

        • Catherine says:

          By Gibbons Cooney

          “Fr. Zampelli also suggested that homosexuality must be celebrated, not just tolerated. “In this case, tolerance is unacceptable,” he said. “Why? Because, I believe deeply (along with Paul in Corinthians) that ‘I am what I am by the grace of God.’ And I believe that I have particular gifts deriving precisely from this blessed but marginalized way of being in the world. What I see clearly now is my own desire: I want to be a subject sought out and valued.”

          • Catherine, it is extremely evil of you to keep dragging those poor priests through the mud on the internet this long after the incident. They both took the consequences like priestly men and for you to keep bringing it up (which even the LGBT activists do not) shows your true colors. You will smear anybody to get your petty vengeance. You are not their defender. You are the only one on the whole world wide web that is still bringing up their issues. You are their greatest detractor and their enemy. I am their defender.

        • Your invention of my sin is a mortal sin. I assume that you are no longer in a state of grace so I will not longer keep company with the insolent.

        • Catherine, I have thought about how to respond to such a venom-filled, hate-filled lie-filled post. If my saying that a parent admitting to a child that he is an alcoholic is a big step bothered you so much, then I have to assume that you have the same issues. However, I have noticed over the years that anyone that treats Mark from PA in a Christian manner incurs your wrath and your wrath will stop at nothing-not even mortal sin-to retaliate. I have prayed for you often. I am not what you like to say that I am. And these lies you tell are not worth the punishment that you will incur for them.

        • Mark from PA says:

          Catherine, why is it that it makes you angry when someone says something nice. Your treatment of K is in no way Christian.

    • PA, why are you plaguing your father in his final times? If you dig deep, you may find some really disturbing things … there is, after all, an explanation why you get het up by looking at pics of men. Stop rebelling against your father, and give the whole loss of what could have been up to Jesus Christ. He will repair you. Remember it is better to enter Heaven with a few parts of your soul missing than to enter Hell in perfect condition. Bring you Dad a half pint of his favorite hooch next time you visit him and tell him you’re through rebelling.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        I hope PA is not making all this up…..I don’t know what to make of all this….with my experience with those who advocate gay rights….it’s hard to trust what they say. But it is not up to me to judge but to leave all in God’s hands, for He is just and righteous.

        There was another poster in the past who kept telling people to not give to much attention to PA….he warned people to stop falling into his games. I am starting to discern that those warnings hold water….

  42. King Clovis says:

    Infidelity amongst “gay’s”– in “so-called” monogamous relationships is rampant…most of these sodomites already have the aids virus, or pick it up later, through a bath house excursion… the “bath’s” are teeming with the aids virus…and other lethal std’s waiting to come forth…remember a charmer by the name of patient “zero”…a french sodomite and airline steward, who worked out of west africa and Haiti…before arriving in frisco, to spread his own brand of love…

    • Mark from PA says:

      After every visit to my dad, he tells me that he loves me and that he is going to stop drinking. All my emoting may scare him strait. He is perfectly healthy and in full control of his faculties. My father often tells me that he loves me. He was a great dad. He was a heavy drinker when I was a child. I don’t know if he was an alcoholic then. Your bring him a half pint of his favorite hooch isn’t funny, if that was your intent. Live with an alcoholic for a while and you won’t think it is so funny. It is painful, but one gets numbed to it after a certain while. I feel a lot better now because I went to the doctor and was told to double my blood pressure medication. Worked like a charm.

      • Mark from PA says:

        PS for those who haven’t gotten the message yet.
        I am lucky that I never felt guilty about it because I wasn’t all that aware. I was in denial. I never asked God to change me. I accept the way that God made me.

  43. Michael McDermott says:

    Sorry to interrupt the open air therapy session for Trolls with Father issues, but I though the following follow up to the Intro about JONAH might actually add to the Discussion – about the Actual Thread Topic, if not Tr0ll DaddyDistractions:

    Sexual reorientation therapy not unethical: Column
    Nicholas A. Cummings (president of the American Psychological Association (1979-80).

    Southern Poverty Law Center wrongly fighting against patients’ right to choose… – it has gone astray in its recent New Jersey lawsuit charging JONAH, formerly Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing, a group that offers to help gay people change their orientation, with committing consumer fraud.

    The sweeping allegation that such treatment must be a fraud because homosexual orientation can’t be changed … lawsuit is the opening salvo of a wave of activism intended to discredit therapy offered in 70 clinics across 20 states, according to the SPLC.

    When I was chief psychologist for Kaiser Permanente from 1959 to 1979, San Francisco’s gay and lesbian population burgeoned. I personally saw more than 2,000 patients with same-sex attraction…
    – Of the patients I oversaw who sought to change their orientation, hundreds were successful…

    Since then, the role of psychotherapy in sexual orientation change efforts has been politicized. Gay and lesbian rights activists appear to be convincing the public that homosexuality is one identical inherited characteristic

    To my dismay, some in the organized mental health community seem to agree, including the American Psychological Association, though I don’t believe that view is supported by scientific evidence…

    • Good points to bring up Michael. Some folks are not aware that if you are in a psychiatric residency you can be drummed out if you refuse to accept the APA’s view on homosexuality, much less approach treatment. And to make it worse, the public schools are encouraging children to “come out” as gay at ages that it is not even possible to understand one’s sexuality. Practicing in this day is difficult indeed.

    • Mark from PA says:

      To celebrate my healing and my dad’s healing, I wore to work a Hawaiian shirt that my best friend gave me for my birthday last year. I actually got many nice comments on it. Too shy to wear it before as my former supervisor would have cringed. I hope now she understands.

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      I read Cummings piece. He helped about 250 people have a less gay orientation out of tens of thousands of patients. Hardly a cure rate that would pass muster with the NIH, and again, ZERO peer reviewed work, ZERO colleagues practicing his techniques.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Yes, Your Fellow Catholic, they call themselves a six or a seven instead of a ten so this is a big success. It is so sad that people try to lay a big guilt trip on people for being who they are. Even when I was in my early twenties and people were ignorant to me because they thought that I was gay my view was “Who are you to judge me?” Now I can look back and understand why some people treated me like they did.

      • NO, YFC, it was 400-500 out of 2000. That’s 20-25%, or one out of every four or five gays gave it up and became normal, escaping the bonds of sodomy and satanism permanently.

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          Wrong. And besides, there was no long term followup with these individuals. There are very many people involved in Exodus and other ex-gay ministries who now admit that they never really were changed, or who have been caught going on gay websites and gay bars.

          Again I say to you, were are these individuals who have been “cured”. Where are the studies to back them up? Where are their techniques published?

      • YFC – “cure” does not matter when God’s will is involved and Heaven is the goal.
        What matters is that ALL persons who are not married (one man and one woman only) are called to celibacy.
        Sexual activity outside of marriage is a mortal sin – for ALL.

        CCC: ” 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. ”

        CCC: ” 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices. “

        • CCC: “2349 People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single.
          Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence.”

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          David, you seem to forget or ignore that the same CCC calls you to treat the “not insignificant numbers” of homosexual persons with dignity respect and compassion.

          • YFC – Treating ALL persons with dignity and respect – has nothing to do with accepting their immorality.

            You should never tolerate or accept acts of Mortal Sin.

            All persons with SSA are called to celibacy. All unmarried persons (one man and one woman) are called to celibacy.

        • prudence says:

          Thank you for sticking to the teachings of the church. I have been reading this website for years and it is rare for people to do that. Intelligent and faithful discussion is always derailed by mean, nasty comments, hateful comments and just plain ignorant comments. It does not matter the cause of homosexuality or if it can be changed. Someone who has unwanted same sex attraction can seek help. People who have accepted that they have this and live according to the church’s teaching are doing all that God asks. People who are not conquering the temptation of committing sins of the flesh should seek the medicine of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. For those who are worried about it, please pray to Mary and St. Joseph and of course Jesus. Then “seek first His kingship over you, His way of holiness.” All who post here, God has sent to be instructed in the faith and to instruct in turn. All should read with humility and confidence the Sermon on the Mount. Matthew 5-7

  44. Topa-Topa Man says:

    YFC… the sodomites who aren’t curable are steeped in diabolic depravity and man-lust! They can’t be cured, because they don’t want to cured…they are addicted to this perversion, and are willing to die for “chocolate starfish”…all anyone can do is hold their hand to the grave…

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      I think you need to get out more Topa. Experience love. Share love.

      • Catherine says:

        An Open Secret:
        The Truth About Gay Male Couples
        by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D.

        “Being queer means pushing the parameters of sex and family, and in the process, transforming the very fabric of society.”

        –National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Policy director,
        Paul Ettelbrick (Kurtz, 2003)

        • Your Fellow Catholic says:

          So are we quoting Nicolosi, Etterbrick, or Kurtz? or the gay community? And besides that, isn’t the radical love of Jesus a call to transform society? Did Jesus die so that society would go along its merry way?

      • King Clovis says:

        If I offended you YFC, I apologize…sometimes I may come off as uncharitable…and it saddens me because a priest last month said he thought I was “charitable”…I aspire to be…to be more selfless, and thoughtful and caring…my prior post’s weren’t particularly sensitive, nor kind, nor reflecting generosity…I need to be more aware of what I say and how my behavior affects others…I love God more than anything else on this earth…He is my very best friend…

        • King Clovis, a heads up from an article in Aug.16 Crisis Mag. by Austin Ruse (Gay Panic Over Russian Laws) …”What followed was the classic sneak attack, assertion of victimhood, name-calling, followed by a refusal to engage in any meaningful way. Called “jamming,” the purpose is not to debate the issue respectfully or otherwise, but to shame opponents into silence, castigate them, and cast them into outer societal darkness. “Jamming” comes from a book called After the Ball, a 1989 manifesto on how homosexuals could triumph over the culture. Capehart caught the preacher off guard, claimed he was a victim, implied the preacher is a hater and a bigot, and then walked off without giving the preacher a chance to talk, explain or even to apologize. Brave. Very brave, Jonathan and very textbook, too.” In other words, King, you’re being played like a harp, just as many of us here have been for upholding Church and Biblical teaching as a warning and a sign post to homosexualists who are really shameless in their propogation and dissemination of their homosexual agenda. Their
          practiced and threadbare self-justifications won’t help them in going right to jail without collecting $200 or having a get out of jail free card. It’s eternal lock up for these poor souls.

          • Hopefully in the next Olympics in Russia, the Russians will arrest all the gay competitors and their supporters and put them in work camps in Siberia.

      • Love means doing God’s will.
        Love means wanting others to get to Heaven.
        Sexual Acts by unmarried persons send people to Hell if they are unrepentant.

  45. Mark from PA says:

    I have caregiver issues, Michael. My brother isn’t all that upset about this as he lives in Georgia and last saw my dad in January. He did send him a note and called him on the phone the other day. It is different when you are taking care of the person every day. I know many cases in which caregivers have died before the person they were taking care of. Your troll comment is an interesting example of Christian charity. It shows what kind of a person you are. However, you have provided amusement for the people here that find me annoying.

    • Mark from PA says:

      Just called my brother to see if he called his son and daughter to tell them about our dad but he forgot.

    • Strangely, PA is both the hero and the damsel in distress at the same time.

      • Mark from PA says:

        Well, Ski Ven, that comment got a smile from me.

        • Mark from PA says:

          Abeca Christian, I don’t know if it is me that you are referring to but in regard to Catherine, I have never denied anything that she quoted from me. I remember her making a quote from another site where I said that President Obama made a very good inaugural address. I did not make that quote here because many of the posters here think that President Obama is an African, communist, black devil, servant of satan, etc. I know that many people here hate and despise President Obama so long ago I decided to let sleeping dogs lie when it comes to President Obama. Catherine stated that I voted for Obama this time but I never said that I did. She just made an assumption and I never confirmed it. I did change my registration from Republican (I was a life long Republican) to Democrat in the 2008 Primary, because in Pennsylvania you can only vote in the party that you are registered. I didn’t care for Hilary Clinton and didn’t want her to be President so I voted for Obama.

          • I hate Obama for a his admitted communist background PA.. and he is eagerly working toward the destruction of this once great Republic and most of all he is an anti-Catholic…..

          • Yes, vote for the guy who is attacking the Catholic Church, rationing health care for the elderly, and favors infanticide. All those who have a problem with that are just hateful bigots.

          • Mark from PA says:

            I don’t know why these comments don’t always go to the bottom. My last one was 9 frames up.

      • Abeca Christian says:

        Ski Ven hahaha that is all I got to say…

        • Mark from PA says:

          You should know the women in my family. There are saints among them. Yes, the women in our family think that niceness is a virtue. Many here see it as a sign of weakness. My mother was so beloved. Those that don’t like me wouldn’t care for her either but she is a saint now. She carried her crosses without complaint.

  46. Mark from PA says:

    More kind words to me from Bill Lindsey from Bilgrimage. The man is a true gentleman and will be a saint one day. Kindness heals the soul.

  47. Mark from PA says:

    Trying to cope with an alcoholic father, that I am very close to, and whom I love very much and who loves me very much is a cause of distress. I am really trying to cope with it.

  48. Mark from PA says:

    Many thanks to my best friend Robert in Australia who is saving my life.

  49. Mark from PA says:

    Skai, you are right, I am rebelling against my father. I am rebelling against his alcoholism. I am filled with anger at why my father put my mom through. It is ripping me up inside how my mother suffered and she never complained one word to me. I have laid down on her grave and cried because my mom suffered so. She told my closest cousin, who is like a sister to me, about how my dad’s drinking upset her. I am suffering because my dad loved a bottle more than he loved my mother. I am still struggling with high blood pressure even though the doctor has doubled my medication. So you see I am a frail and weak human being. And for those here that think I am some kind of a pervert, I hope this give you satisfaction.

  50. Mark from PA says:

    Skai, my last post to you is futher up here, just like my one to Canisius saying that he would have been better off with an alcoholic dad (don’t know if he was an alcoholic when I was a kid or just a heavy drinker) who would do lots of guy stuff with him and take him to bars on weekends, better off with him than with his mother. My mom was a lot like me (but quieter) so Canisius would have liked her about as much as he likes me, but probably not less, don’t know if he would have liked her less than his mom.

  51. Mark from PA says:

    Had a wonderful day yesterday, felt the best that I had in years. Anti-anxiety medication does the trick. BP still high. Still miss my mom a lot and am worried about my dad’s alcoholism. My wife and son were annoyed by my joyful mood. So my niceness gets to them it seems. Found out something interesting, I took my wife out for dinner. We were having a nice time talking about family. I said OK in response to something that she said. She said say yes or no. I said yes. Then I mentioned that I always say OK and that OK means yes so she should remember that when I say OK, I mean yes. She said, “But OK means no, you are so stupid.” I never knew in all these years that she thought that OK meant no.

  52. So your mom is a hero too and only hateful bigots don’t like her. Maybe if you would stay away from all these hateful bigots your blood pressure would be better. How can you take care of your daddy if you suffer a stroke or a heart attack? Think about the people who need you.

    • My previous post was supposed to go at the bottom of this page.

    • Mark from PA says:

      Oh Ski Ven, you are so kind. I am just saying that since I have a similar personality to my mom people that I rub the wrong way, she would probably rub the wrong way. My heart is fine. I just suffer from anxiety attacks and an increase in blood pressure medication is helping that.

  53. It looks like Skai is the last man standing here.

  54. Cause he outlasted the rest of them.

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