Bishop Robert McElroy preaches progressivism

At the World Meeting of Popular Movements in Modesto, San Diego bishop makes call for lay Catholics to "disrupt"

San Diego Bishop Robert McElroy addresses the U.S. regional meeting of the World Meeting of Popular Movements Feb. 18, in Modesto, Calif. (NCR photo/Brian Roewe)

On February 18, Bishop Robert W. McElroy of San Diego delivered a speech at the U.S. Regional World Meeting of Popular Movements during a panel discussion on the barriers marginalized people face in housing and work. The following are excerpts:

Global Warming skepticism fueled by conspiring forces (just like like tobacco companies)

One of the most striking elements of “Laudato Si” is [Pope Francis’] clear and bold analysis of the empirical realities that threaten the Earth which is our common home. “Seeing the situation clearly” is the whole foundation for that encyclical. It is the starting point for transformative justice. Pope Francis was unafraid to venture into this controversial set of questions about climate change and the environment despite the fact that massive social and economic forces, especially within our own country, have conspired to obscure the scientific realities of climate change and environmental degradation, in the very same way that the tobacco companies obscured for decades the medical science pertaining to smoking. 

The United States’ economy must be contained within a big government “juridical structure”; everyone deserves wealth

The fundamental political question of our age is whether our economic structures and systems in the United States will enjoy ever greater freedom or whether they will be located effectively within a juridical structure which seeks to safeguard the dignity of the human person and the common good of our nation.

In that battle, the tradition of Catholic social teaching is unequivocally on the side of strong governmental and societal protections for the powerless, the worker, the homeless, the hungry, those without decent medical care, the unemployed. This stance of the Church’s teaching flows from the teaching of the Book of Genesis: The creation is the gift of God to all of humanity. Thus in the most fundamental way, there is a universal destination for all of the material goods that exist in this world. Wealth is a common heritage, not at its core a right of lineage or acquisition. 

For this reason, free markets do not constitute a first principle of economic justice. Their moral worth is instrumental in nature and must be structured by government to accomplish the common good.

San Diego Bishop Robert McElroy, right, speaks with community organizers and Cardinal Peter Turkson Feb. 18 at the U.S. regional meeting of the World Meeting of Popular Movements. (NCR photo/Brian Roewe)

In Catholic teaching, the very rights which are being denied in our society to large numbers of those who live in our nation are intrinsic human rights in Catholic teaching: The right to medical care; to decent housing; to the protection of human life, from conception to natural death; of the right to food; of the right to work. Catholic teaching sees these rights not merely as points for negotiation, provided only if there is excess in society after the workings of the free market system accomplished their distribution of the nation’s wealth. Rather, these rights are basic claims which every man, woman and family has upon our nation as a whole. 

These are the fundamental principles which the Church points to as the basis for judgement for every political and social program that structures economic life within the United States. And they are supplemented in Catholic teaching by a grave suspicion about enormous levels of economic inequality in society. Pope Francis made clear the depth of this suspicion two years ago. “Inequality,” he said, “is the root of social evil.” 

Capitalism kills

In his encyclical “The Joy of the Gospel,” Francis unmasked inequality as the foundation for a process of exclusion that cuts immense segments of society off from meaningful participation in social, political and economic life, as we have all heard this morning. It gives rise to a financial system that rules rather than serves humanity and a capitalism that literally kills those who have no utility as consumers. 

Now, when I quote the Pope that “this economy kills,” people very often say to me, “Oh come on, that’s just an exaggeration; it’s  a form of speech.”

I want to do an experiment with you. I want you to sit back in your chair for a moment. And close your eyes, and I want you to think of someone you have known that our economy has killed:  A senior who can’t afford medicine or rent; a mother or father who is dying, working two and three jobs, really dying because even then they can’t provide for their kids; young people who can’t find their way in the world in which there is no job for them, and they turn to drugs, and gangs and suicide. Think of one person you know that this economy has killed. 

Now mourn them.

And now call out their name; let all the world know that this economy kills. 

Co-creators with God deserve $15 an hour

For Catholic social teaching, the surest pathway to economic justice is the provision of meaningful and sustainable work for all men and women capable of work. The “Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church” states, “Economic and social imbalances in the world of work must be addressed by restoring a just hierarchy of values and placing the dignity of workers before all else.”

In work, the Church proclaims, men and women find not only the most sustainable avenue to economic security but also become co-creators with God in the world in which we live. Work is thus profoundly a sacred reality. It protects human dignity even as it spiritually enriches that dignity. If we truly are in our work co-creators with God, don’t we think that deserves at least $15 an hour?

We must all become disruptors 

After the panel yesterday, when the panelists were asked in one word how they would summarize their message, I tried to think, what is the “act” that summarizes how we must act in this moment?

And I came up with two words. The first, sadly, has been provided by our past election. President Trump was the candidate of “disruption.” He was “the disruptor,” he said. 

A line from San Diego Bishop Robert McElroy’s speech — “We must all become disruptors” – is captured by artist Sonia Sawhney on a visual note card for the work and housing panel Feb. 18 at the U.S. regional meeting of the World Meeting of Popular Movements. (NCR photo/Brian Roewe)

Well now, we must all become disruptors. We must disrupt those who would seek to send troops into our streets to deport the undocumented, to rip mothers and fathers from their families. We must disrupt those who portray refugees as enemies rather than our brothers and sisters in terrible need. We must disrupt those who train us to see Muslim men, women and children as forces of fear rather than as children of God. We must disrupt those who seek to rob our medical care, especially from the poor. We must disrupt those who would take even food stamps and nutrition assistance from the mouths of children.

But we, as people of faith, as disciples of Jesus Christ, as children of Abraham, as followers of the Prophet Muhammad, of people of all faiths and no faith, we cannot merely be disruptors, we also have to be rebuilders. 

We have to rebuild this nation so that we place at its heart the service to the dignity of the human person and assert what that flag behinds us asserts is our heritage: Every man, woman and child is equal in this nation and called to be equal. 

We must rebuild a nation in solidarity, what Catholic teaching calls the sense that all of us are the children of the one God, there are no children of a lesser god in our midst. That all of us are called to be cohesive and embrace one another and see ourselves as graced by God. We are called to rebuild our nation which does pay $15 an hour in wages, and provides decent housing, clothing and food for those who are poorest. And we need to rebuild our Earth, which is so much in danger by our own industries.

From Diocese of San Diego website.



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  1. McElroy is so wrong about so many things, and he seems to want to be a politician instead of a bishop.

    Ah, but being a bishop gives him a comfortable life (provided on the backs of working people) without having to earn it, a podium from which to campaign for political causes without having to run for office, and an automatic moral authority (in the eyes of the ignorant) without having to make any persuasive moral arguments.

    He preaches fake evangelism, a fake gospel.

  2. Oh my goodness! Does everyone know that the prime sponsor of this ‘conference’ was PICO.

    Go on the internet and look it up. Guess whom is a huge contributor? George Soros!!!!!! Whom has in the past attempted to bring down the Church and is is VERY PRO ABORTION!!!!!! (in addition to attempting to bring down the U.S. Government).

    I understand and agree with helping the poor and the farm workers. But this conference was hijacked, I think the Church was ‘duped’. At least that is what I want to believe. Did they not ‘vet’ the event? Whom is advising the Holy Father, Bishops and Priests? I want to believe that they were in attendance because of the issues regarding as I mentioned above, the poor and the farm…

  3. ‘Let’s have a revolution and use this money on the poor instead. And, no, surely it is not I who am against the church.’

    Judas Iscariot or Bishop McElroy?

    Scary part is I can’t tell!

  4. Sandra Beus says:

    Thank you Bishop for keeping up with the times.
    Both our adult children have masters degrees in environmental science. We believe in prolife meaning food and clean water, adequate housing and meaningful sustainable work. We believe in co-creating the future by protecting all creation. Peace in Christ

    • Sandra,

      The Church seems to have ‘partnered’ with Pico and they are funded with the help of anti-Catholic Church and anti-U.S. Government George Soros, whom is very Pro-Abortion!!!!!! And dear Sandra, if we don’t have LIFE none of the other things matter, as there will be no people to be concerned about housing etc……

      I pray for Bishop McElroy daily.

      Peace be with you!

    • Ann Malley says:

      “Co-creating?” Good grief, Sandra.

      Keeping “up with the times” is not the duty of a Bishop. Peace in Christ is the same as peace in Truth. And, in truth, the good Bishop seems to prefer a job outside that to which he was called. Would that he would be honest about his shift in direction instead of misleading himself and others.

  5. How can someone with all of those fancy degrees be so stupid? if you read Bishop McElroy’s bio he has certainly accumulated some fancy university degrees, but it is obvious from his actions and associations that he is just plain lacking in common sense. I am sorry, but long ago I lost all respect for the Bishop and his latest tirade is just another nail in the coffin. As someone who lives in the Diocese of San Diego I have only one way to protest against the Bishop – as I will not take to disrupting church services where he is presiding. I will not contribute one cent to Annual Catholic Appeal, and no money to my parish. If more of the faithful followed my example, perhaps we could get the Bishops’ attention. Sign me,

  6. I hope that people who read this article know that this conference took place with the full approval of Pope Francis. I understand that he even recorded a special message of greeting for the participants. I no longer recognize the Catholic Church. If it were not for my desire to receive the sacraments I would stay home. With people like Pope Francis, Cardinal Cupich, and Bishop McElroy I just want to cry. George Soros and PICO are so anti Catholic, but now with gullible people in authority they will use the Church to their advantage. Wake up people before it is too late. The messages of Fatima and Akita have come true. The smoke of Satan has entered the Church. Pope Francis and his followers are communist/socialists. Pope Francis…

    • Steve Seitz says:

      Dear Disgusted with McElroy,
      I sympathize with you and feel your pain. But please don’t consider leaving the Church. The great reformers of the Church never left her: They sought to reform Her from within instead. Some were even imprisoned.

      If you look at Church history, the Church has almost always needed some kind of reform. The worst “reformers” were those that left the Church (e.g. Martin Luther). The best reformers reformed her from within (e.g. Sts. Francis, John of the Cross, Theresa d’Avila, and many others).

  7. Jim Grisafi says:

    Why are we now being asked to disrupt? We were not asked to disrupt the pro-abortion policies of the past administration, or the pro gay marriage policies of the past, or the pro transgender policies of the past?

    Why are we being asked to disrupt our economic system, the current administration, and the current rulers?

    Wny now, and not in the past?

    Is this now the message of the Gospel? Disrupt now but the past was okay?

    Is this a spiritual message or political and ideological?

  8. St. Christopher says:

    What a fool! B. McElroy is wrong on virtually everything he says, as he brown-noses his way further into the good graces of socialist, if not communist, Pope Francis (a good son of lefty Latin America). You know, Excellency, you are the shepherd of your flock, with the iron duty of leading them — each of them — toward salvation; even to the point of your death.

    Instead, you are speaking at the Pope’s “grass routes” organization, which sounds a lot like the kind of community organizations fostered by our dearly departed Ex-Prez Obama. Why (except the brown-nose part)? And, where are there any words about repentance and seeking to become holy to achieve salvation?

  9. I will not be contributing my annual hundreds of dollars to the SD Diocesan Annual Appeal. There are many other worthy “Catholic” organizations that support Catholic teaching that will benefit from my money. Of course, my money pales next to Soros’.

  10. Thomas Edward Miles says:

    Joe: That’s a great idea and it’s christocentric to use the money for the POOR!! God bless you! The great thing about Cal Catholic is one can really feel the love of Christ!! As Saint Paul states, ” lthe love Of Christ compels us”! Beautiful!

  11. Steve Seitz says:

    Bishop McElroy’s words are a target rich environment. My favorite is his polemic that capitalism kills. I guess he never got the memo that communism, fascism, and socialism also kill. The honest question is, “Which kills more?” It makes me think that either he doesn’t believe in the effects of Original Sin or his intellect is held captive by his emotions.

  12. Time for faithful Catholics to review the anti-Communist speeches of soon-to-be canonized Most Venerable
    Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen.

  13. helen wheels says:

    Jim Grisafi: Most Excellent questions !
    More people should be asking them.
    Maybe some will connect some dots.

  14. St. Christopher says:

    “Good CCD Readers”: Several of you have said that you will re-direct your usual giving to non-diocesan Catholic orders (especially Traditional ones). Wonderful! (Don’t forget the terrific monks at “Our Lady of Clear Creek Abbey,” and the great sisters in the order, “Benedictines of Mary; Queen of Apostles.”)

    Be certain to advise Bishop McElroy, with copies to the Apostolic Nunciature of the Holy See in Washington, DC. The Nuncio is Archbishop Christophe Pierre. Then, pray; who knows what will happen.

  15. This speech is getting world-wide exposure and praise because, finally, a Bishop has spoken out against the greed and distribution of wealth in our country. It also recognizes that the world has changed faster than most of us comprehend. A quick example: if you were to invest in a new manufacturing plant, you wouldn’t think too much about hiring lots of old fashioned middle class jobs that built up the middle class in this country. Those jobs have gone away and left people high and dry, while the new jobs require highly trained people in the tech fields. People to program and repair robots. About 7-10 people in our country control more assets than the bottom 70-80% of our people. Catholic social justice teaches that this is wrong…

    • Ann Malley says:

      The only praise is coming from those who want to misuse scripture to foment grand scale theft under the auspices of Charity, Bob One. Like Dems in the last election pretending they’re there to help the common man while shutting down coal plants. Oh, but they’re helping the poor kill off their babies. A service for which there is a heft charge, but a huge profit as the so-called justice of selling off the parts for profit goes on unabated.

      What is getting world wide exposure – thank God – is the horn and tail sprouting from those who have plucked Christ from their heart and slapped Him on a billboard instead. Using Him as an advertisement to gain support and $$$ to carry out their own agenda.

      So, thank you, +Bishop McElroy. You’re…

      • Ann Malley says:

        … telling the truth about how you see things. It’s just not Catholic.

        When you post things like the above, Bob One, my heart is moved. Moved to root out these false shepherds for taking advantage of others like yourself.

    • Steve Seitz says:

      Bob One,
      Regarding American Distribution of wealth, we’re practically the envy of the world. There aren’t many countries that have a more robust middle class than the United States. Also, how are Americans more greedy than anyone else in the world?

    • To Bob One his model society is Cuba where social justice reigns…..and the government controls everything ….

    • St. Christopher says:

      “Bob One” (or the collective of George Soros that writes under name), what you say is nonsense. B. McElroy gets attention because he is so completely wrong. The world pays attention due to the surprise that someone who is a bishop making such facially wrong statements. He would also get attention, say, if he got married, or said Mass in the nude — attention does not make him worthy of admiration.

      Pay attention to what “Steve Seitz” says. People want to get into America, not out of it. Our standard of life — although flawed by abortion and sexual “rights” — is the economic wonder of the world.

  16. breitbart news reported the speech with the heading ‘san diego bishop calls on catholics to disrupt trump” ,stating clearly what the bishop hesitated to say directly. sadly, this speech may get him placed on the no fly list. other bishops will have to come forth to let the white house know that he is not speaking for the nccb, even though he is tasked to do that. luckily, the nuns on a bus know the best way to cross the country with out aviation and will be able to lend him a hand.

    • I’ve been following Breitbart recently, because you should “always keep the enemy closer.” It is a really professionally presented web/news site, but at least 80-85% anti-American. It doesn’t represent the values of our country but those of the elite and the rich and the rulers and want-to-be-rulers of our nation. Above all, it doesn’t represent the Church’s teachings on Social Justice. Just saying!

    • Your Fellow Catholic says:

      If Bishop M is indeed put on the no-fly list, then it proves that the administration is out to punish its opponents rather than people who pose a physical threat to the country. That being said, I doubt the admin would do such a thing. But they might! They have certainly shown themselves to be spiteful and to use public policy to punish opponents, witness the cancelling of the CALTRAIN electrification grant.

  17. How many souls in Bishop McElroy leading to Hell?

  18. McElroy can’t compete with Bishop Bawai Soro, St. Peter Chalean Catholic Church in El Cajon, AC.
    Bob One, in one way shape or form, you have very-likely contributed to many of these billionaires by purchasing their products. You purchased them fair and square. You contributed to their profits. You had a choice not to purchase, but you chose to purchase, whether the products were necessary for you or not. There is no reason to treat those who have been successful and gained wealth with disgust or contempt. Had you come up with their products, you under capitalism would be enjoying their wealth now. Get over it. These billionaires form companies, hire and pay their employees, giving them a means to care and feed their families…

    • Doug, what you say is true, and I agree that successful risk taking should be well rewarded. But, Church teaching, down through many Popes, points out that the economy should serve the people, not the other way around. The economy should provide for the health care of our people, the education of our people through college if they can pass the admission test, and the list goes on. That is not socialism or communism, but Catholic teaching. It is unlikely that we will save our souls if we don”t care for those in need. We need to do it because Christ died to erase our sins and we need to pay back for that act of salvation. I wish I could do more.

      • St. Christopher says:

        “Bob One” (or George Soros clone): No it is not Catholic teaching (although it may be Pope Francis and Minions teaching). Saving souls is not economically determinative; people are saved through their faith and God’s grace. Being a good Catholic does not mean, and has never meant, that you also required to be a communist or socialist. In fact, democracy, and capitalism (the economic offshoot of individualism) are far closer to the Gospel that government-inspired thievery.

        With your approach, you get the need to give that pinch of incense to the State Gods, just to show your societal cohesion and genuflection to the Emperor. Never.

      • Bob One there is never of for you to take is there. Keep taxing the business owner so the welfare cheat can go living in their paid for section 8 housing while using food stamps to buy beer and chips. We have public education and your blessed Obamacare so what are you complaining about. In a more just world the government would be reduced to size of pin and bureaucrats would need my permission to do their job..

  19. McElroy should be focused on the salvation of souls, not progressive politics which really is just another form of socialism, fascism, or even Marxism/communism.

  20. Bad priests are a sign of God’s anger.

    ” THE MOST EVIDENT MARK of God’s anger and the most terrible castigation He can inflict upon the world are manifested when He permits His people to fall into the hands of clerics’ who are priests more in name than in deed, priests who practice the cruelty of ravening wolves rather than the charity and affection of devoted shepherds. Instead of nourishing those committed to their care, they rend and devour them brutally. Instead of leading their people to God, they drag Christian souls into hell in their train. Instead of being the salt of the earth and the light of the world, they are its innocuous poison and its murky darkness.” – St. John Eudes


    • continued…

      St. Gregory the Great says that priests and pastors will stand condemned before God as the murderers of any souls lost through neglect or silence. Tot occidimus, quot ad mortem ire tepidi et tacentes videmus. Elsewhere St. Gregory asserts that nothing more angers God than to see those whom He set aside for the correction of others, give bad example by a wicked and depraved life.

  21. Bob One you really do not know what you are talking about….but you are a liberal

    • Bohemond, you are wrong on both counts!

      • No I am right on all counts. you think government welfare and $15 minimum wage an hour is Catholic Social teaching. Ask the owners of the restaurants in Seattle that went under after that city imposed that nonsense.

  22. Leftists look to Francis to crush the peasant rebellion

    Washington Post to Francis: Put down the revolt of those Catholic peasants – by Christopher A. Ferrara February 14, 2017

    We are witnessing, to the extent humanly possible, an attempted merger of the Catholic Church with a worldwide secular hegemon — an outcome now principally impeded only by the Trump administration, the populist movements of Europe, and traditional Catholics within the Church who are resisting what would be her terminal liberalization under a wayward Roman Pontiff beloved by all the worldly powers.


    • Put down the revolt of those Catholic peasants – continued,

      Never has the world witnessed such a destructive affinity between political and ecclesiastical power at the highest levels. One can only see here yet another aspect of what the Third Secret of Fatima foretells, which Benedict XVI revealed in part during his pilgrimage to Fatima some seven years ago: “realities involving the future of the Church, which are gradually taking shape and becoming evident.”

      Fatima Perspectives – Perspective No.946

      • Catherine, one of Ferrara’s severest critics, rightly or wrongly, noted that he is not all that happy with EWTN because they are too liberal. Wow! Is it possible that the recent economic activity – great recession, etc – is bringing out the true teachings of the Church which we pretty much have ignored for the last 50-100 years. What do you think?

        • Bob One, You’ve been referred to as a George Soros sounding mouthpiece on this website. Your ideas of what the Church teaches vs. what the Catholic Church actually teaches are two different things. Progressive birds of a feather, flock and rebel against God together.

          Remember Bob, Lucifer also convinced one third of the angels that they were “progressive” too.

          Don’t let Lucifer lead you Bob. Listen to Jesus who said, “For the poor you will always have with you: but me you have not always.” Matthew 26:11


          • There is a much graver spiritual recession taking place. It is caused by spiritual neglect! When Christ’s shepherds don’t allow, teach or uphold the Fullness of Truth then there is a great lack of abundance in attaining the necessary sustaining gift of sanctifying grace. Sanctifying grace vastly improves the economy (wealth) of the soul. “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you.” Luke 12:31


          • Mother Angelica’s Little-Known Love of the Latin Mass – Michael Matt | Editor


          • “Mother Angelica tangled with another liberal prelate, Bishop David Foley, the ordinary of her diocese in Alabama. Foley had no real authority over Mother’s apostolate, the Poor Clares of the Perpetual Adoration. Nevertheless, he insisted that in the new Shrine to the Blessed Sacrament Mother was building in Hanceville, Alabama, no Masses were to be said in the traditional “ad orientern” manner that is, facing the altar and God in an eastward direction, rather than facing the people. ”


          • continued,

            ” When Mother refused to knuckle under to this illegal demand, in October 1999 Foley issued a preposterous decree stating that Mass facing the altar (an unbroken tradition of the Church from her earliest days) was an “illicit innovation or sacrilege” and that anyone “guilty” of this “sacrilege” would be subject to “suspension or removal of faculties.” All Masses in his diocese, Foley declared, would “henceforth be celebrated at a freestanding altar and… the priest would face the people.”

        • anonymous Anselm says:

          Always attack from the left, Bob, always attack from the left. Good narrative.

  23. It is my sincere hope that Bishop McElroy or Msgr. Steve Callahan, or Rod Valdivia or someone with some authority at the Pastoral Center is reading all of these comments. Of course of all the people who read Cal Catholic only a few take the time to put their thoughts down on paper. But if Bishop McElroy will take a few minutes to read these comments and find out how thoroughly disliked he and his leftist politics truly are, perhaps he might just re-evaluate what he is doing wrong. Then again, Bishop McElroy might be so far gone that he is a hopeless cause, and all we can do is to pray for him, and to look elsewhere for a true shepherd to lead us. May the Good Lord and His Mother help us!!!.

    • Disgusted with Bishop McElroy,

      Don’t dispair. Look at the conversion of Dr. Bernard Nathanson and Norma McCorvey they turned around.

      Pray for all the Bishops, especially ones like Bishop McElroy!!!

  24. Glaring inconsistencies prove how Our Lady’s prophecies are becoming ever more visible. In reality, our Traditional Catholic faith teaches us that it is Bishop McElroy who should be opposed when attempting to dangerously disrupt and dismantle the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. Bishop McElroy NEVER made local or International news by urging disruptive opposition to Obama’s religious persecution of the Little Sisters of the Poor or for Obama’s international support of a pro-abort agenda that has slaughtered millions of the most helpless little immigrants of all. Pray the rosary! “In the End My Immaculate Heart Will Triumph!”

  25. Bishop McElroy is speaking truth to power! May God Bless and sustain him!

    • Sorry Jorge, but you are so very, very, very wrong.

    • “Bishop McElroy is *speaking truth to power* ” = Unfortunately, for the souls, that Bishop McElroy is supposed to be leading, it’s the WRONG power and there is NOTHING Catholic about it!

      The Origin of the Phrase “Speaking Truth to Power”

      The Secret Origin

      In I Must Resist, a posthumous 2012 collection of African-American civil rights leader Bayard Rustin’s personal correspondence, Rustin states in a 1942 letter that the role of a religious group is to “speak the truth to power,” a phrase he attributes to a speech by future ACLU president Patrick Malin.


      • continued,

        However, these words are not in the text of Malin’s speech, suggesting that Rustin himself coined the phrase. As the Committee notes in a 2012 appendix to Speak Truth to Power, Rustin was actually a co-author of the 1955 book, but his contribution was redacted after he was arrested for on charges of committing a homosexual act in 1953. In 2013, U.S. President Barack Obama posthumously awarded Rustin the Medal of Freedom.

    • anonymous Anselm says:

      More like, ‘Bp. McElroy is speaking “gimme red hat” to Pope Socialista.’

      In time, come it will, just like for Card.Tobin of Newark.

  26. To whom is one going to give all that nice clean water, and nutritious food and healthy medicine, if the progressive leftists are killing all the babies and elderly they can get their hands on?

  27. Camille you are so right, spot on!!!

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